For those of you with experience with Colombianas and Filipinas...

[Alabamaboy!]

I have been married to both. And some of the things I have noticed:

1. Filipinas seem to embrace the US culture much more and have less difficulty integrating and assimilating. Even while at the same time retaining customs from their own country (BBQ Squid at the birthday cookouts, etc).

2. Filipinas seem in general more happy with life in the States than the Colombianas. More upbeat and positive.

3. Filipinas seem to find work much, much easier and can find the local Filipino community quicker.

4. The Filipino social networks in each city seem to be more willing to accept the new member and actually help them succeed here in the States.

5. Filipinas seem to be much more organized and with a better work ethic.

6. Filipinas seem to be much more religious, well, in general actually go to the church on Sunday.

7. Seems like more often than not a marriage to a Filipina is going to work out pretty well, but more often than not a marriage to a Colombiana is going to have a lot of problems.

Any other guys who have been married to both? Traveled to both?

[Alabamaboy!]

Also it seems like most Filipinas are super eager to have their own home, decorate it, plan things for it, etc., etc. here in the States whereas Colombianas seem to not be so much into that and spend more time and energy thinking about, buying things for, improving their family's home in Colombia rather than their home here in the States.

Most Filipinas are action oriented and less into idle chatter about their hopes and dreams. They will actually study, work, or do whatever is necessary to have a good life and family here. Colombianas seem to talk and dream more, actually do less. Or at least with a much slower pace.

I know some guys who seem to have found Colombian women who do not fit these patterns such as Raycjs, FT, Whitey, but just speaking in general after seeing quite a few of these marriages around the country.

I definitely do, however, believe that both Filipinas and Colombianas are much better choices than Gringas.

[piglett]

so after saying all of that........... you are married to a lady from Colombia??? I myself think ladies from the PI. CAN make the best wives.....however that's not to say that they are all great , because there are definitely some bad ones too. i feel you have to almost be some kind of super hero or lion tamer to handle some of the LA babes.not my style man, I'll stick with what i have.

 
 
take care
pig

[Alabamaboy!]

so after saying all of that........... you are married to a lady from Colombia??? I myself think ladies from the PI. CAN make the best wives.....however that's not to say that they are all great , because there are definitely some bad ones too. i feel you have to almost be some kind of super hero or lion tamer to handle some of the LA babes.not my style man, I'll stick with what i have.

 
 
take care
pig

Yeah, I am married to a LA gal at this time. Just doing a little compare and contrast.

[whitey]

i feel you have to almost be some kind of super hero or lion tamer to handle some of the LA babes.not my style man, I'll stick with what i have.

Anyone who knows me, knows that I'm no lion tamer ... my first wife (Canadian) was MUCH more difficult to "handle" than my Colombian wife.

It's not that difficult to find Colombian women in the larger cities with the qualities Alabamaboy is describes in his first post.

If you want to find someone who is adaptable, upbeat and positive, wants to work, is organized with a good work ethic, religious, etc ... all you have to do is seek someone who HAS ALREADY demonstrated those qualities in her own country, in her own life, in her family, and in those she chooses to have around her (i.e. friends).

If she has a job, went to university, goes to church regularly, hangs out with similar people ... chances are she will have those qualities.  There are plenty of these women out there: bank employees, teachers, office workers, nurses, etc, etc. 

There really is no great mystery about it ...

[Gato4Astrid]

Alama


Not thinking about getting divorced, I hope

[Gato4Astrid]

Also it seems like most Filipinas are super eager to have their own home, decorate it, plan things for it, etc., etc. here in the States whereas Colombianas seem to not be so much into that and spend more time and energy thinking about, buying things for, improving their family's home in Colombia rather than their home here in the States.

Not surprised.  Astrid once thought about having a new floor above the kitchen.  It was for herself.  My thought was "She isn't planning to live with me in UK"


I live in a bedsit apartment, and am planning to move to a 3 or 4 bedrooms house.  She doesn't seem interested in thinking about when I showed her some of the houses I found in website.

[Alabamaboy!]

Alama


Not thinking about getting divorced, I hope

No, not thinking of that. I think everything is going to work out fine. And when I was making the observations above, I was not referring to my wife, but in general after meeting a lot of people from both cultures.

If I end up getting divorced it will be only because of one issue: that my wife does not agree with performing her duties as a wife and mother that we had previously discussed and agreed upon.

[Alabamaboy!]

Not surprised.  Astrid once thought about having a new floor above the kitchen.  It was for herself.  My thought was "She isn't planning to live with me in UK"


I live in a bedsit apartment, and am planning to move to a 3 or 4 bedrooms house.  She doesn't seem interested in thinking about when I showed her some of the houses I found in website.

Exactly the kind of things I am referring to. After months of living here, nothing hanging on the walls, no plans or discussion regarding buying these things. But at the same time always blabbing with her family about things and the family home in Colombia much more decorated after the same amount of time.

Not even plans to buy different bed comforters, anything really. It is kind of weird.

But my ex Filipina was decorating, moving heavy furniture by herself when I was at work, all kinds of things. The house looked like a showplace within a couple months.

And both were from big families, limited resources, never had opportunities for such a lifestyle before. But one group seems to thrive on these things and the other, not so much. Unless it is for the family home in Colombia and it is being done by committee.

I guess that is one of the biggest differences....the Colombian women do not seem to be very good self starters or able to carry on projects by themselves. And that has been my experience with all age groups and socioeconomic strata. They seem to do everything by "committee".

[piglett]

Anyone who knows me, knows that I'm no lion tamer ... my first wife (Canadian) was MUCH more difficult to "handle" than my Colombian wife.

It's not that difficult to find Colombian women in the larger cities with the qualities Alabamaboy is describes in his first post.

If you want to find someone who is adaptable, upbeat and positive, wants to work, is organized with a good work ethic, religious, etc ... all you have to do is seek someone who HAS ALREADY demonstrated those qualities in her own country, in her own life, in her family, and in those she chooses to have around her (i.e. friends).

If she has a job, went to university, goes to church regularly, hangs out with similar people ... chances are she will have those qualities.  There are plenty of these women out there: bank employees, teachers, office workers, nurses, etc, etc. 

There really is no great mystery about it ...

so your saying that looking for a wife in a bar of strip club is a bad plan 
 
 
pig

[piglett]

But my ex Filipina was decorating, moving heavy furniture by herself when I was at work, all kinds of things. The house looked like a showplace within a couple months.

so your saying my wife mite move my drillpress out of the living room while i am at work???
she had better pack a lunch because i have a tough time lifting it, which is why it's still where it is
 
pig

[DesmondID]

I do not have a large amount experience to make any sweeping generalizations though from what i have seen/experienced and from talking to others, my gut reaction would be the opposite on some of the comparisons made.. My wife and many of the other Colombians I have met do not fit (at all) many of the stereotypes I have read about on here..

When I come home from work I always pause and take a deep breath first with my hand on the doorknob... Then I open the door to see what new surprise awaits today.. None of the large furniture is in the same spot as when she moved in. She loves anything new here, even the cold.. etc etc

With such a small sample I am skewed in my opinion i am sure - but if someone asks me my opinion of Colombians the answer does not match most of the given stereotypes.

[thekfc]

so your saying my wife mite move my drillpress out of the living room while i am at work???
she had better pack a lunch because i have a tough time lifting it, which is why it's still where it is
 
pig

She may not be able to move it but she can decorate the area so good that you wouldn't even know that there is a drill press.   

[Alabamaboy!]

so your saying my wife mite move my drillpress out of the living room while i am at work???
she had better pack a lunch because i have a tough time lifting it, which is why it's still where it is
 
pig

I don't know about that, but my ex-wife moved some super heavy furniture and I still do not know how she was able to do it since she was about 4'10", 87lbs when she came to the States. I was definitely impressed.

[Alabamaboy!]

I do not have a large amount experience to make any sweeping generalizations though from what i have seen/experienced and from talking to others, my gut reaction would be the opposite on some of the comparisons made.. My wife and many of the other Colombians I have met do not fit (at all) many of the stereotypes I have read about on here..

When I come home from work I always pause and take a deep breath first with my hand on the doorknob... Then I open the door to see what new surprise awaits today.. None of the large furniture is in the same spot as when she moved in. She loves anything new here, even the cold.. etc etc

With such a small sample I am skewed in my opinion i am sure - but if someone asks me my opinion of Colombians the answer does not match most of the given stereotypes.

Desmond, I am curious...is your wife Costena or Calena? That is where I have spent the most time during my travels. Both of my long term relationships in Colombia were with Costenas.

I do hear that life with Paisas can be more "normal" because they are more businesslike, industrious, and motivated for the most part. At least that is the stereotype and what I noticed during my few week trip to Medellin.

[piglett]

I don't know about that, but my ex-wife moved some super heavy furniture and I still do not know how she was able to do it since she was about 4'10", 87lbs when she came to the States. I was definitely impressed.

She may not be able to move it but she can decorate the area so good that you wouldn't even know that there is a drill press.   

well i really don't think she will be lifting a 32" Rockwell radial drillpress, i had 1 hell of a time just getting it to where it is now. i don't have a heated shop so my plan is to put it upstairs, but I'm not so sure i can get it up there. maybe a large pulley & winch is in order , hell i don't know that's why it's still in the living room
 
pig 

[Ray]

If I end up getting divorced it will be only because of one issue: that my wife does not agree with performing her duties as a wife and mother that we had previously discussed and agreed upon.

　
AB,
 
I think this way of thinking is a big mistake that a lot of guys make.
　
Getting a prospective wife to agree in advance to do things or act a certain way during the marriage is often just a waste of time. If she feels differently about something than you do, then don’t assume that you will be able to make her see things your way.
　
A good example is your previously discussed problems in getting your wife to agree to learn English on your timetable. From what you posted way back before she ever came over on the fiancée visa, you had clear indications that she just wasn’t very interested in learning a new language. Getting her to agree to do it your way only resulted in much frustration and disappointment on your part.
　
I think Whitey is one guy who sees the light very clearly. Rather than getting her to make all of these prior agreements to act as you think she should, simply look at how she acts BEFORE you marry, and that is almost certainly how you can expect her to act in later years, She is what she is and trying to mold her into what you think she should be is a futile effort that is destined to fail IMHO.
　
You have repeatedly complained that your wife is not performing as the mother to your children that you expect of her. But at the same time, you tell us that your children already have a mother in their lives and she lives very close by. Your children do not need another mother. Perhaps what you really want from her is to be a part time caregiver for your children when they are staying in your home. Maybe it just too much to ask of her when you demand she become the mother to your children and everyone in the family becomes confused over what roles you expect them to fill within the family.
　
I still think that you and your wife could really benefit from some good, solid, professional marriage counseling, but I know you already rejected that idea, so I have no other advice to help your current situation. I just want others out there who are starting this journey to see the error in thinking that they can convince their prospective mates to become something that they aren’t. I think the best policy to follow when evaluating a future wife/husband is "what you see is what you get".
　
　
Ray
　

[DesmondID]

Desmond, I am curious...is your wife Costena or Calena? That is where I have spent the most time during my travels. Both of my long term relationships in Colombia were with Costenas.

I do hear that life with Paisas can be more "normal" because they are more businesslike, industrious, and motivated for the most part. At least that is the stereotype and what I noticed during my few week trip to Medellin.

Hey there.. She is from Medellin...

[JWR]

Whitey's post is very, very true from what I've seen and experienced. 
 
My ex Paisa wife was a very hard worker before I met her.  She lived alone working at 14, was very independent, and had an attitude that she didn't need anyone.  She spoke of people in her past that she was angry with, and washed her hands of people that she was "done with" and had very few friends.  Forgiveness and tolerance are not her strong points.  She always treated me well while we were married, but in the back of my mind, I knew there was a strong chance that she would eventually go back to her independent single life.
 
She has now returned to her natural state, living alone, and working hard for "herself".
 
All the signs were there and easy to see looking back.
 
When it comes right down to it, people's habits don't change much, and if you don't like and accept your spouses basic character, and how she handles things from the beginning, it's only a matter of time before you are single again.
 
Also I believe one of the biggest problems with these International marriages and relationships is alot of us guys live in denial for a long long time until things finally blow up completely.  Then alot of us throw our hands up in the air and yell,,,,,WHAT HAPPENED I can't believe she did that!  Well the problems were always there, but because of the time and money invested, babies on the way, and all sorts of other reasons, the reality of these situations are not faced head on early.  It's just too hard to accept.
 
As Ray said, "what you see is what you get".  But if eyes are closed, you can't see anything.
 

Anyone who knows me, knows that I'm no lion tamer ... my first wife (Canadian) was MUCH more difficult to "handle" than my Colombian wife.

It's not that difficult to find Colombian women in the larger cities with the qualities Alabamaboy is describes in his first post.

If you want to find someone who is adaptable, upbeat and positive, wants to work, is organized with a good work ethic, religious, etc ... all you have to do is seek someone who HAS ALREADY demonstrated those qualities in her own country, in her own life, in her family, and in those she chooses to have around her (i.e. friends).

If she has a job, went to university, goes to church regularly, hangs out with similar people ... chances are she will have those qualities.  There are plenty of these women out there: bank employees, teachers, office workers, nurses, etc, etc. 

There really is no great mystery about it ...

[Alabamaboy!]

Ray, I am not trying to shape or mold anyone. I am just asking simple questions and have heard simple responses. For example she wanted to have a child. That was fine with me. No problem. So we were on the same page. Issue over. So then if once the child comes, I neglect the child, then it is really bad. Because I had agreed to this thing before we ever got married.

No different than the language thing. I indicated that I really needed my future wife to learn English to the point where she could communicate with my kids on like a 4-5 year old's level. One reason for this was so she could teach my kids SPANISH. She assured me it was no problem. That she always wanted the opportunity to study English. So it was a big surprise to me that she has had such a hard time of this since she agreed to it, mentioned it was always something she wanted to do, she had all the means to do it with computer programs, schools, books, me to practice with, and she had unlimited time to do it because she has not had to work. That sort of thing could not be predicted. Even when she went home after the fiancee visa, I had written off the whole relationship at that point. She had a thousand dollars or so at that time. What did she do with the money? Did she buy shoes? Help her parents out? Waste it on frivolous things? No, she joined Colombo school for the intensive English course which was 5 days a week. I did not ask her to do it. She wanted to do it. So she did it and a year later we got married, because she did indeed learn enough English to function here. I never try to mold or change anyone. But I am honest about saying what I desire in a mate.

About my wife being the mother to my kids....again, I was not asking for much. She knew that my ex wife is not the mother of the year. And that my kids needed and were lacking a strong mother figure in the home. This house did not need daddy to be with some cutie pie who would sit on the sidelines and just hang out. It needed someone who could organize things, make rules, enforce rules (wash your hands before dinner), normal things like that. And the biggest part to everything is communication. And making an effort to be part of the family. Not just a visitor. My son is with me virtually all the time, and my daughter a couple days a week. And like you said, you need to SEE things before you believe them or take the next step to get married. And I did see these things. She lived in a house with a three small kids, even her sisters she had no problem cooking for them, taking care of the home, helping the kids with the homework, organizing things, normal things that a woman would typically do in a household. She even worked with her aunt for awhile doing those same things. AND SHE LIKED IT. She took great pride in keeping the home organized and that the kids looked good and were well taken care of. That is the thing she said she wanted the most, to have a family with me, a happy home, and be a good wife and mother figure to the kids. And me, the thing I wanted was to be the best husband and dad. Very simple, straightforward things. There should be no confusion of what was expected of anyone. It has been discussed a lot. But I want to reiterate that I am not demanding anything from anyone. I have just honestly stated what I have been looking for in my life. And I only want someone who is compatible. If the person is not compatible, it is not good for me, my wife, the kids, nobody.

So the question is: if you have been crystal clear with everything, have been patient for years, have done 120% of your part throughout the whole relationship, she refuses to go to counseling, what is the next move?

During the first month here everything was cool. But once the pregnancy kicked in, she went a little crazy. So my strategy at this time is to just chill out and give her time with her family. If she wants to come back, as a part of the family, cool...we are here. If she wants to come back as a kewpie doll or some kind of trophy wife, it is not going to happen. We just need to be in harmony with what we want out of life. And if we are not, we are not doing anyone any favors staying together.

I do agree with you 100% that anyone embarking on one of these long distance relationships should pay attention to what they see rather than what they hear. But some things cannot be simulated before the fact...such as how she will function in your household/family in the States. Or how she will function after she gets pregnant. There is intrinsic risk involved with this kind of relationship and a guy needs to assess whether or not they are ready to take on this risk. Everybody is different. I can honestly say that if I had to do it over again, I probably would not take this risk again. You just cannot predict how things will work out. And especially at this stage in my life, if things go badly and we do not get back together, I am not ever going to go through all this process again. It will be better for me to stay single, travel a bit to Colombia to spend time with my new child, and do the best I can as a single dad. If a guy is not planning on having a family, and they have the means to travel a bit each year, I don't know why they would even want to get married at all.

I do think that if you take a chance with a girl who is more or less into parties or fashion like my ex from BAQ, and then believe her stories that she will miraculously become a good wife and mother figure, you are begging for trouble. I never saw that girl do much cooking or anything domestic, so in the end I did not believe her and pulled the plug on the relationship. But my wife was not anything like this at all. She was a super domestic, mature acting, responsible woman. Definitely not into material things or money.

I do appreciate the advice though. It all makes a lot of sense.

[Alabamaboy!]

Whitey's post is very, very true from what I've seen and experienced. 
 
My ex Paisa wife was a very hard worker before I met her.  She lived alone working at 14, was very independent, and had an attitude that she didn't need anyone.  She spoke of people in her past that she was angry with, and washed her hands of people that she was "done with" and had very few friends.  Forgiveness and tolerance are not her strong points.  She always treated me well while we were married, but in the back of my mind, I knew there was a strong chance that she would eventually go back to her independent single life.
 
She has now returned to her natural state, living alone, and working hard for "herself".
 
All the signs were there and easy to see looking back.
 
When it comes right down to it, people's habits don't change much, and if you don't like and accept your spouses basic character, and how she handles things from the beginning, it's only a matter of time before you are single again.
 
Also I believe one of the biggest problems with these International marriages and relationships is alot of us guys live in denial for a long long time until things finally blow up completely.  Then alot of us throw our hands up in the air and yell,,,,,WHAT HAPPENED I can't believe she did that!  Well the problems were always there, but because of the time and money invested, babies on the way, and all sorts of other reasons, the reality of these situations are not faced head on early.  It's just too hard to accept.
 
As Ray said, "what you see is what you get".  But if eyes are closed, you can't see anything.

I agree with everything you mentioned above. But I think it is not as simple as it appears on the surface. In reality nobody is 100% compatible. Sometimes the people are 90% compatible but that 10% is the part that dooms the relationship. I think the best people can hope for is to have reasonable expectations, look for someone relatively compatible, and try to be super patient and understanding as possible with the 10% or so which is the problem area.

If someone keeps chasing their tail looking for someone who is 100% compatible, I think they are just wasting their time, and even if they did find someone who fits that bill, it is no guarantee of the future when she hits the USA or what she will be like as the years go by.

No matter what there is always a big element of risk with this type of relationship. And it is much greater risk when there are other members of the household involved.

[JWR]

Alabama,
 
One of the problems you are having is that you are using too much reason, logic, and expecting her to stand by her word, and what she tells you she is going to do.
 
I think you are making all this out to be way too complicated.  I haven't met your wife, but from your posts, you have a very simple impulsive young costena that doesn't really put alot of deep thought into things.  You want to negotiate with her on a more complicated level about alot of these serious issues, but she frustrates you because she's just not capable of that level of reasoning.  One thing for sure, she is going to drive you absolutely nuts.  Will you be able to take it long term?  I doubt it.
 
Honestly I think you are in the wrong country for that sort of truthfulness from a girl.   My experience with Colombianas is that they often alter the truth, and often have trouble recalling what they said in the past, (even if it mattered anyway).  I think it is a cultural difference in the way they handle communication.
 
By justifying that "no girl or relationship is going to be perfect" you set yourself up for accepting  things that are unacceptable.  Of course none of us are perfect, and come with all our own set of flaws.  The question is, can you handle the specific flaws of the partner you have chosen.  You are too logical and cerebral for the Colombiana that you chose.  It's just a shallow pool that that is not going to change.
 
It get it though...  She's pregnant with your baby, and you have to take a shot at making it work.  I've never been in your situation, and I don't know what I would be doing.
 
 
 
 

I agree with everything you mentioned above. But I think it is not as simple as it appears on the surface. In reality nobody is 100% compatible. Sometimes the people are 90% compatible but that 10% is the part that dooms the relationship. I think the best people can hope for is to have reasonable expectations, look for someone relatively compatible, and try to be super patient and understanding as possible with the 10% or so which is the problem area.

If someone keeps chasing their tail looking for someone who is 100% compatible, I think they are just wasting their time, and even if they did find someone who fits that bill, it is no guarantee of the future when she hits the USA or what she will be like as the years go by.

No matter what there is always a big element of risk with this type of relationship. And it is much greater risk when there are other members of the household involved.

[utopiacowboy]

Anyone who knows me, knows that I'm no lion tamer ... my first wife (Canadian) was MUCH more difficult to "handle" than my Colombian wife.

It's not that difficult to find Colombian women in the larger cities with the qualities Alabamaboy is describes in his first post.

If you want to find someone who is adaptable, upbeat and positive, wants to work, is organized with a good work ethic, religious, etc ... all you have to do is seek someone who HAS ALREADY demonstrated those qualities in her own country, in her own life, in her family, and in those she chooses to have around her (i.e. friends).

If she has a job, went to university, goes to church regularly, hangs out with similar people ... chances are she will have those qualities.  There are plenty of these women out there: bank employees, teachers, office workers, nurses, etc, etc. 

There really is no great mystery about it ...

Absolutely right, Senor.

[Alabamaboy!]

JWR,

Yes, she is pregnant and that makes a big difference. Plus my kids want to be with her too. My daughter just got off the phone with her. She was telling my wife that she wants to help teach the baby English and how to swim. And she wants to learn how to cook from my wife.

Even my son is looking forward to having a little baby brother or sister.

There are a lot of positive things to my wife too. Not just these problem areas.

It is just a matter of whether we can make things work or not to an acceptable degree for all of us: the kids, me and my wife and we can all be relatively comfortable and happy.

In regards to picking girls who go to church regularly? Those were some of the worst Colombianas I met. Ones with careers or in the University? Most of them were way too much into accumulating material things and money. I would not put too much emphasis on these issues. At least for what I was looking for in a wife. If I was looking for someone to help with increasing the household income, maybe these issues would be more important.

The one thing that looking back on things I think would make a difference is to look at who they hang out with....the barrio where they spend 99% of the time. Their family. Their friends. If their family and friends are super laid back,  and don't do much with their lives, probably she will grow up thinking this is normal behavior.

[Zon]

The one thing that looking back on things I think would make a difference is to look at who they hang out with....the barrio where they spend 99% of the time. Their family. Their friends. If their family and friends are super laid back,  and don't do much with their lives, probably she will grow up thinking this is normal behavior. 

This is the reason that class matters in Colombia.  People from the lower classes are often damaged goods and unable to conform to a modern life.

[Gato4Astrid]

This is the reason that class matters in Colombia.  People from the lower classes are often damaged goods and unable to conform to a modern life.

I went to my good friend's wedding in Durban, South Africa in 1995 - just few years after the end of ant-apartheid.  Anyway, during that time, African people lived in either in squatter camps or Township.   Let say, that squatter camps is in Estrato 1 and Township in Estrato 2/3.


They offered these people who lived in squatter camp good homes like the Township, but they prefer living in squatter camp as they got used to it.  They feel more comfortable in them!!!


It is something we do not understand.


In the bottom line, if you live in a very large house, and found your lady from Colombia who lives in Estrato 1 area.  Would she feel comfortable living in a very large house ?

[michaelb]

well i really don't think she will be lifting a 32" Rockwell radial drillpress, i had 1 hell of a time just getting it to where it is now. i don't have a heated shop so my plan is to put it upstairs, but I'm not so sure i can get it up there. maybe a large pulley & winch is in order , hell i don't know that's why it's still in the living room
 
pig

Be sure the floor is strong enough to support it, remember, it will vibrate when you run it.

[robert angel]

Be sure the floor is strong enough to support it, remember, it will vibrate

Piglett,


That same bit of advice will likely apply to the master bedroom as well...[size=78%].[/size]

[Researcher]

     I always saw "lumping" people into categories a disadvantage because you can't always judge a book by it's cover. Saying that women who come from the lower strata are often "damaged goods" is a fallacy. There is no correlation between a person's social status and whether they are marriage material. This mindset seems to come from people who live in developed countries where people have more opportunities for work and education. In these countries it would stand to reason that a person who doesn't try to better themselves either aren't motivated or are lacking in something. In countries like Colombia this simply isn't the case. Many people live in poverty and have no opportunity to better themselves. This is life and reality to them.

   That being said it is better to look at women on an individual basis. The biggest advantage to that is a much bigger dating pool. Thinking a woman is better because of the class she comes from is pretty arrogant in my opinion. Choosing a woman because of her social status isn't going to guarantee a good relationship. Spending time with a woman and using good judgement works far better.

             Researcher

[Ray]

So the question is: if you have been crystal clear with everything, have been patient for years, have done 120% of your part throughout the whole relationship, she refuses to go to counseling, what is the next move?

　
AB, I really think you guys could benefit from professional counseling.
　
I believe you said before that she won’t go to counseling because she said she isn’t crazy. Therefore, it is obvious that she has no idea what marriage counseling is all about.
　
If you really want counseling, then YOU should take the initiative to find a good bilingual MFC and make first contact. Don’t try to convince your wife to attend counseling, but let the counselor contact her privately and explain some things to her. Of course she would need to be here with you, not back in her country.
　
If she still refuses to go, then I guess you will never work things out because you feel you are 120% correct and nothing is likely to ever change.
　
Ray

[Alabamaboy!]

This is the reason that class matters in Colombia.  People from the lower classes are often damaged goods and unable to conform to a modern life.

I don't agree with this statement as a whole. Because I have seen many people from the lower estratos who have been able to change their lives. I saw the brother of my ex GF from BAQ. He came from the same background as my ex, but for some reason he was super modest, hardworking, and went to school to be an architect. And he graduated with this degree last year, as did his girlfriend. His other friends graduated to become doctors, accountants, etc.

For whatever reason my ex gf was not so into working hard or being modest. Most likely because she was smoking hot and cute and probably relied on this to cut corners throughout her life. She hung out with other pretty girls who were not really serious about studying or doing the things necessary to get ahead.

They were both from the same place, but chose to hang out with a different crowd.

[Alabamaboy!]

　
AB, I really think you guys could benefit from professional counseling.
　
I believe you said before that she won’t go to counseling because she said she isn’t crazy. Therefore, it is obvious that she has no idea what marriage counseling is all about.
　
If you really want counseling, then YOU should take the initiative to find a good bilingual MFC and make first contact. Don’t try to convince your wife to attend counseling, but let the counselor contact her privately and explain some things to her. Of course she would need to be here with you, not back in her country.
　
If she still refuses to go, then I guess you will never work things out because you feel you are 120% correct and nothing is likely to ever change.
　
Ray

I have taken the initiative and found a good, bilingual counselor. But I am not going to ask her to contact my wife like that when she said she absolutely does not want to come. This situation is like dealing with a drug addict or something, if they do not want to come, they are not going to do it. My wife is stubborn as a mule. And she will claim that I am harassing her if I pull such a stunt. It definitely will not help the situation.

Why do you think if she refuses to go, then things will never work out? Don't you think that maybe she might think some things over and see that she is the person who is wrong about things and that she needs to mature a little? Or that she sees that her way of things are not getting her anywhere and she better change a bit? Or maybe she will look around the room at the other people sitting with her and that they are 10, 15, 20 years older and their lives are [snip], and maybe she will realize that maybe, just maybe the barrio's ways of dealing with things is not the best approach?

The bottom line is that if she is not willing to cooperate and do her part in the family setting, she should not be in the family. Whether it is our family here, her parents family, or whoever's family she is living with. I would not try to be part of a person's life if I was unwilling to do my part and cooperate.

I did not get married to have a trophy wife. I got married to have a real wife who is willing to do things as a couple and as a family. If I needed a housekeeper or nanny, it would be much cheaper and hassle free to hire one. If I just wanted a sex partner, I would just have casual relationships from time to time and not get married. I got married to have a partner in every sense of the word. And that includes the things that are not so exciting and fun such as raising kids, taking care of the home, getting out of bed at a reasonable time, etc.

[benjio]

In my opinion Bama's inital posts applies mostly to Costena Women. But please don't get me wrong...there are plenty of exceptions along the coast. They are just very difficult to find...especially with the distraction of beauty amongst them all. From my experience women in Central and Southern Colombia are much different, regardless of their economic class. I've only dated Filipinas that were born in the states, but they were both great gals. Very honest...almost brutally, upbeat, not bitter about bad experiences with men in the past, and they could both cook their asses off.

[Alabamaboy!]

In my opinion Bama's inital posts applies mostly to Costena Women. But please don't get me wrong...there are plenty of exceptions along the coast. They are just very difficult to find...especially with the distraction of beauty amongst them all. From my experience women in Central and Southern Colombia are much different, regardless of their economic class. I've only dated Filipinas that were born in the states, but they were both great gals. Very honest...almost brutally, upbeat, not bitter about bad experiences with men in the past, and they could both cook their asses off.

Yes I should have clarified myself that almost all my experience has been in Cali and on the Coast.

[V_Man]

I have taken the initiative and found a good, bilingual counselor. But I am not going to ask her to contact my wife like that when she said she absolutely does not want to come.

AB I agree. Your wife has to want to give it a go.

With respect to this topic. I she her refusal to go to counselling as a major red flag. Major. It does not matter where she comes from. If she is not willing to accept help to resolve relationship issues that are difficult for two people to resolve on their own then this is a major red flag. It does not have to be counselling of course. There may be many sources of help to develop skills to resolve relationship problems. However if the refusal to entertain counselling is part of a pattern then I think you are in big trouble.

Perhaps she believes that you have made it crystal clear that there is your way or the wrong way. In which case she could conclude there is little point in counselling.

Then again perhaps you are right. Perhaps she just needs to grow the $#@*& up and do what you expect her to do.

I'd rather not offer a view on that.

My point is that there needs to be tools to help a relationship and she just dismissed one out of hand that you are willing to try. Red flag.

[Alabamaboy!]

AB I agree. Your wife has to want to give it a go.

With respect to this topic. I she her refusal to go to counselling as a major red flag. Major. It does not matter where she comes from. If she is not willing to accept help to resolve relationship issues that are difficult for two people to resolve on their own then this is a major red flag. It does not have to be counselling of course. There may be many sources of help to develop skills to resolve relationship problems. However if the refusal to entertain counselling is part of a pattern then I think you are in big trouble.

Perhaps she believes that you have made it crystal clear that there is your way or the wrong way. In which case she could conclude there is little point in counselling.

Then again perhaps you are right. Perhaps she just needs to grow the $#@*& up and do what you expect her to do.

I'd rather not offer a view on that.

My point is that there needs to be tools to help a relationship and she just dismissed one out of hand that you are willing to try. Red flag.

I really don't expect her to do much more than even a below average wife  would do. I am not asking for much. I am not asking for an all-star of a wife. And what I am asking for is not some crazy thing I made up out of my head, rather it is normal, universally accepted behavior, here and in Colombia. Things that we both agreed were important.

I think she is just so stubborn that she does not want to hear the truth. It seems like most of the Costenas I have met love to run from reality and the truth. For example they will not have money to pay their electric bill, but will go out and buy new Carnaval shirts for the family. They almost refuse to look at reality and the consequences of bad decisions. So if the counselor tells her that the things she is doing are not cool, she will just ignore it completely.

I even try to explain things this way...I keep in touch with a few Colombiana friends from BAQ...which is totally acceptable to my wife since she does the same thing with a few of her school friends. No problem with that. And I make sure that the friends I have are all at least in a relationship or something so my wife does not freak out about anything. So the friend will be chatting with me and asking me about my wife. I tell her she is back in Colombia. I explain that she is pregnant, she wanted to be spoiled by her mom and sisters, etc, etc. The friend then tells me that is crazy. That she has only been to the States for 3 months and she left a couple days before Christmas??? With a new husband and family?? And that it cost a fortune with all the visa things, travel, etc, but she wasted another huge amount of money to return home again?? So when my wife is telling me that it is normal what she is doing, I tell her "hey, even this person from your hometown, same age, same background, thinks it is totally crazy what you are doing and is disrespectful to me and the kids". She will just refuse to believe it. She just puts her head in the ground and pretends she is right and the rest of the world is wrong. She reminds me of George Bush in that regard.

So then I offer up the idea that maybe she is not ready to be a wife to a gringo here in the States, and she should just stay at home with her family. And I will do my part to support the child and will visit, and also bring the child to stay with me for part of the year when he/she is a  couple years old and can be away from her for that long. She does not like that idea either. She wants to be with me. OK.....

So I say, "you know what, this whole relationship has been a little bit shaky in regards to you following through on your words. So I need to have things clarified between us with a Post-Nuptial agreement. This agreement will clarify exactly what is "sole and separate property" and what is "joint property" so you will understand clearly what you are getting into here. I don't want you to have any confusion. And I need you to sign that agreement as soon as possible if we are going to go any further with this marriage." So she tells me no problem, she will sign it because she is not an interesada and she does not want anything from me that she does not deserve, she just wants to be with me. OK. Great. So I spend the money for my attorney, also for her own attorney who is bilingual and is there for her to answer any questions she might have and to work out anything she might want to change. So she tells me she gets the document translated, has no issues with it, and wants to sign it. I told her at the beginning that the papers need to be notarized, and since she is in Colombia, she would need to take the papers to the Consulate in BAQ to sign in front of an agent there to make them legally binding (the attorney told me that). But she refuses to do it. Says she is too busy. That she is just going to sign them and send them back y ya! I told her they were not valid like that. She said she does not care. She is too busy to do it! Does not feel like doing it. This is from a young woman in the prime of her life who is 4 months pregnant. Not 8 1/2 months pregnant or even 2 months pregnant where she  can cite morning sickness or anything like that. It is simply insane. And how can a person deal with someone like that? And how can you predict such crazy, irrational behavior?

It is like many of these women are living in the clouds or something. They appear to be normal in the way they do things, but when it really comes time to do something important, they completely lose their way.

And it is not just the couple women I have had relationships with there. I hear it a lot from other people that have had the same experiences....gringos and colombianos. And you can see it with the rich ones, poor ones, old ones, younger ones, university graduates, almost everyone there.

But all that being said, I think there are so many women there that a guy can definitely get a good girl if he is lucky and really spends a lot of time with her and studies the whole situation. But there is definitely luck involved because you cannot predict what they will do when they get to the States.

Some women are so glad to not have to share their bed with 2-3 other family members, have privacy, some basic material things that are virtually impossible to have there in Colombia. And some other women from the exact same background will not appreciate anything and will be more comfortable in Colombia gossiping with the neighbors all day on the front porch, complaining about how they have no way to get a job, to find a good man, or to help their families. It is kind of crazy.

[JWR]

Alabama wrote: Why do you think if she refuses to go, then things will never work out? Don't you think that maybe she might think some things over and see that she is the person who is wrong about things and that she needs to mature a little?  Uhhhh no, no, and no...she won't be re-thinking things.
 
Even if she spoke fluent English, and you spoke perfect Spanish, you two will always be speaking a different language.
 
The writing is on the wall here.  Now it's just about you accepting the situation, and not subjecting your existing children to any more craziness.
 

 

[Alabamaboy!]

Alabama wrote: Why do you think if she refuses to go, then things will never work out? Don't you think that maybe she might think some things over and see that she is the person who is wrong about things and that she needs to mature a little?  Uhhhh no, no, and no...she won't be re-thinking things.
 
Even if she spoke fluent English, and you spoke perfect Spanish, you two will always be speaking a different language.
 
The writing is on the wall here.  Now it's just about you accepting the situation, and not subjecting your existing children to any more craziness.

You are correct. I don't respect the way she is thinking right now and handling things. But that does not mean it needs to remain that way. Because the things that I am asking for are soooooooo small. The bar is set sooooo low. It will not take much of a boost to get her up to where she needs to be to get everyone's respect. She has a lot of good attributes as well. But this 10% of the relationship is pretty important.

I would probably not have much hope if it were not for other experiences I have had with Colombians. My business partner is Colombian and he was doing a lot of things which were just simply crazy. So we severed the business relationship after about a year. Well, he suddenly "saw the light" and we gave it another try and for the last 8 years we have been going great. NO problems. He opened his mind a bit, followed along with the program, and it paid off big time for him. He and his family have greatly improved their lives simply because of a couple very simple changes in the way he thought about things. And that guy gets all the respect in the world from me, the community, and his family now. So it is possible.

Also for the fact that I see in my wife some things that could have been said about me before I had my first child. But as soon as I had my first child, it was like a switch was thrown, and everything became crystal clear as what is my mission in life, what things are really important, and what is BS. I have heard other people say similar things. So I think she has a great chance to achieve this level of improved clarity after the birth of the baby. I would hate for her to have that moment of clarity after she has passed the point of no return and then realizes how badly she has destroyed her life.

[Alabamaboy!]

Alabama wrote: Why do you think if she refuses to go, then things will never work out? Don't you think that maybe she might think some things over and see that she is the person who is wrong about things and that she needs to mature a little?  Uhhhh no, no, and no...she won't be re-thinking things.
 
Even if she spoke fluent English, and you spoke perfect Spanish, you two will always be speaking a different language.
 
The writing is on the wall here.  Now it's just about you accepting the situation, and not subjecting your existing children to any more craziness.

Another issue I have is that the situation as it has been has not left any scars at all. Everyone is happy and healthy. My kids are chatting with her. They would like her to come back. But I don't see anyone down because she is not here. My son who is almost 12 says he does not really care, just as long as he and I have time to do things together.

So if for some reason she did not come back, I think the situation might be a little more "crazy" than it would be if she did come back in many regards. First of all, I don't have the time, money, or "ganas" to start a new relationship with a LA gal. And I am not attracted to the women here, thus my rational for going to LA in the first place. So the situation here would be that I would stay single, work my ass off at my job and doing the domestic things in the house, "date" a few locals here. Maybe go to Colombia once in awhile. It is not really a great lifestyle for anyone and not any less "crazy" than being with a wife who I might not see eye to eye with on every single issue. It is a close call though at this point. I don't know anyone who is married who gets along perfectly with their spouse, so I am being realistic in what I am looking for. And hopefully we can get to an acceptable point with this whole situation.

[V_Man]

So she tells me she gets the document translated, has no issues with it, and wants to sign it. I told her at the beginning that the papers need to be notarized, and since she is in Colombia, she would need to take the papers to the Consulate in BAQ to sign in front of an agent there to make them legally binding (the attorney told me that). But she refuses to do it. Says she is too busy. That she is just going to sign them and send them back y ya! I told her they were not valid like that. She said she does not care. She is too busy to do it! Does not feel like doing it. This is from a young woman in the prime of her life who is 4 months pregnant. Not 8 1/2 months pregnant or even 2 months pregnant where she  can cite morning sickness or anything like that. It is simply insane. And how can a person deal with someone like that? And how can you predict such crazy, irrational behavior?

It sounds pretty obvious what would be occuring if she was not pregnant.

This particular issue is simple to deal with. If she doesn't do it in a legally binding way then she isn't comming back to live with you. Problem solved.

It is like many of these women are living in the clouds or something. They appear to be normal in the way they do things, but when it really comes time to do something important, they completely lose their way.

Yes I think you are correct. I think many of them sort of fail to think through the possible consequences of not acting on certain important things. Even when you point out the consequences they fail to grasp it accurately. I've noticed this as well.