Why are guys coming to Colombia in the first place rather than other countries?

[Micky]

AL -
"Fear mongering is easy to do when you are talking about Colombia" - AL
 
Since when is simply telling the truth "Fear Mongering"?  Pockets aside,  the fact is that Nation wide a person in Colombia has more/less a 800% greater chance than a person in the U.S. of being murdered.  Truth is truth whether one believes it or not.
 
Micky

[benjio]

The neighborhood I live in in Houston is what most people who've never been out of the U.S. would describe as a ghetto. All blacks and latinos, relatively high murder rate, gang activity, and drug related crimes are getting a lot worse again after a decline in the late 90's. It's the kind of place you just might pass through while you're lost, and you get that bubbly feeling in your stomach right before you tell yourself, "I probably need to get the $#%@ out of here!" I have friends that refuse to come and pick me up from home as night.
 
I'm not saying all this to boast. I have more than enough money to move to an apartment in a nicer part of town or buy a house in a better neighborhood (like almost everyone else has done after their children grew up and moved away). I stay because it's the house I grew up in. I stay because I know the people in my neighborhood, criminals and all. I stay to show the youth in my neighborhood that coming from there doesn't mean you have to end up dead or in jail. My house has been burglarized 5 times, and I still haven't gone anywhere. My next door neighbor was murdered by an intruder in 1996. I heard the gun shots and ignored them because it's such a common occurence.
 
I come from a dangerous place, and although I'm relatively comfortable there, I'm more comfortable in Colombia. My chances of being car jacked, catching a stray bullet, accidently murdered by a Police Officer, etc. are so much greater in the neighborhood I live in, even neighborhoods like El Bosque in Barranquilla seem like a walk in the park for me. Your average gringo won't even venture into some of the places I've been to in Latin America just from word of mouth. I'll admit that I've taken some huge risk and thank goodness I've never had to pay the ultimate price. I'm definitely not recommending anyone do the same thing. I just don't believe enough in statistics though. No number will make me believe I'm in more danger walking down the street in Colombia than sitting in my house back in Houston. The very place I lay my head at night, bodies being found and unsolved murders are so routine they sometimes never see a second of news coverage. Your average Colombian can't go out and buy an AK47 with a drum magazine and 200 rounds. I know a 15 year old with one and he's used it. I'll take my chances SOTB.

[fathertime]

The neighborhood I live in in Houston is what most people who've never been out of the U.S. would describe as a ghetto. All blacks and latinos, relatively high murder rate, gang activity, and drug related crimes are getting a lot worse again after a decline in the late 90's. It's the kind of place you just might pass through while you're lost, and you get that bubbly feeling in your stomach right before you tell yourself, "I probably need to get the $#%@ out of here!" I have friends that refuse to come and pick me up from home as night.
 
I'm not saying all this to boast.

Hey Benjio. 


Why on earth would you think that we might think you are BOASTING about living in a crappy crime-ridden neighborhood?  That is pretty far down on the list on things most of us would want or brag about.   


Fathertime! 

[benjio]

Hey Benjio. 


Why on earth would you think that we might think you are BOASTING about living in a crappy crime-ridden neighborhood?  That is pretty far down on the list on things most of us would want or brag about.   


Fathertime!

It's a "Living in a Crappy Crime-Ridden Neighborhood" thing. Believe it or not some people actually sit around and brag about how much violence and crime occurs in their neighborhoods. It was always hilarious but shameful to me...forgot I was in better company.

[dennislevy]

jejejeje! i ll admit that I ve read the Bang colombian Women book!
 
My son.....)God bless him!) had bought it for me as a birthday present when I visited the States last year.
 
It s got some good shortcuts to understand the culture  how to qualify date and intitiate the conquista mutual....and the point is made......get Spanish on board.
 
Just about all of it I had experienced in one way or another.
 
if I were a newbie, I wouldn t necessarily dismiss it.
 

[utopiacowboy]

"Your average Colombian can't go out and buy an AK47 with a drum magazine and 200 rounds. I know a 15 year old with one and he's used it. I'll take my chances SOTB."

I'm not sure you're getting out much when you're in Colombia. Weapons of every description are not hard to come by. It's the home of the world's longest running civil war. If you think the US is more dangerous than Colombia, I know you haven't been some of the places I've been in Colombia. I could say more but it's a public forum.

[Traveler]

As for the original topic, my first girlfriend in high school was a colombiana, and taught me that I can't get a better woman than a woman from that country.  As for the rest of the guys, besides the fact that there are so many extremely attractive women there, IMHO the answer is that Colombia is the perfect blend of the exotic and the affordable.  Mexico and Central Americans are just not exotic in the US due to their sheer numbers, and also one doesn't need to travel abroad to meet mexicans and salvadorenas. 
 
Venezuela is crazy dangerous and gets bad publicity due to Chavez; besides, there is no agency "infrastructure" there.  I sincerely don't understand why Chavez is such a predicament to traveling there, but him notwithstanding the country is extremely chaotic and dangerious.  Crime rate in Caracas for example is many times higher than in Bogota. 
 
Brazil as others have mentioned has another language, and it is HUGE and a lot further, resulting in much higher airfare, espeically if one travels to smaller towns.  And besides there are plenty of rich people there that local golddigger girls can focus on without the need to hunt for foreigners. 
 
Peru is further than Colombia, airline flight schedules are crazy, and if one travels to cities other than Lima the cost of airfare increases dramatically.  In my limited experience with peruanas they seem to be quite different from colombianas - they are very direct, sincere, spontaneous, sexually aggressive, but less patient, refined and sophisticated.  Of course there are exceptions, but that has been my observation.  Their physical appearance is more Amerindian, and whether it's a plus or a minus depends on one's taste.  I have met many hot peruanas, but there are a lot more attractive colombianas than peruanas IMHO.  Bolivia is just off the radar for most people, and I do hope to visit both Peru and Bolivia next year just for touristic purposes.  Always dreamed of seeing Salar de Uyuni! 
 
Chile and Argentina are a LOT more expensive, the women are "too white" for most guys who are looking for latinas, and those countries' economies are sufficiently good not to make people there try to get out every way they can.  Having said that, Argentina could be an alternative for guys searching for women in the FSU. 

[Traveler]

As for the second topic - crime rate, well Colombia IS dangerous.  It does have a high crime rate, even though it has gone down a great deal since the 90's.  But so does Jamaica for example, yet people are not afraid to go there.  There are parts of the country still affected by the civil war, and there are barrios in Medellin that are lawless.  I saw footage recently of police trying to enter some barrio there - it looked like IDF was trying to enter Gaza.  But, if one avoids dealing with criminals, trading in controlled substances, does not go to areas affected by the civil war or lawless barrios the risk is quite low.
 
Having said that, comparing even bad areas in the US to Colombia is ridiculous.  I have due to my work have traveled extensively around South Park in Houston and Opa Locka in Miami, and they can't be compared to bad parts of Colombian cities.
 
Monteria is "low crime area"?  The paramilitaries were running a racket there kidnapping and extorting, and killing anybody who tried to resist.  They were as lawless as FARC-controlled areas, not sure how it is now.

[Researcher]

       I have to somewhat agree with the notion that some places in the US are pretty dangerous when it comes to crime.I have visited some pretty rough places here and abroad and I have to say that the chances of a fella getting his head cracked open for a few bucks is pretty high in these places.But there is a difference in a country like Colombia.Something I will never forget was something I witnessed in Cali in 1998.A friend and I were on our way to checkout the scenery when we came upon a bus accident.Seems this bus had gone over a pretty steep cliff and they were just then pulling the charred hunk of mangled steel up from the edge.There were bodies, maybe 5 or so lying by the side of the road but they were covered by sheets.No one was stopping and looking really.Everyone was moving along like this was an everyday event.

       It was at that time that I was hit by a reality that I had known before but now was staring me in the face:The fact that in places like Colombia life is cheap.That makes it more dangerous than the US IMHO.That's something I remember when I travel, that I'm "not in Kansas anymore".After years of civil war in Colombia most people have became numb to violence.The day before my wife's interview at the embassy a car bomb went off a few blocks from where we were staying.I was watching the news story about it and was concerned.It didn't phase my wife one bit.

      Of course the flip side of that coin is that these folks live life one day at a time and enjoy it.After all they may not see tomorrow.That's why you can spot a gringo a mile away there.They walk around like if they are robbed the cops will actually do something about it.

        Researcher

[benjio]

"Your average Colombian can't go out and buy an AK47 with a drum magazine and 200 rounds. I know a 15 year old with one and he's used it. I'll take my chances SOTB."

I'm not sure you're getting out much when you're in Colombia. Weapons of every description are not hard to come by. It's the home of the world's longest running civil war. If you think the US is more dangerous than Colombia, I know you haven't been some of the places I've been in Colombia. I could say more but it's a public forum.

Cowboy,

You are only proving my point. I said nothing about the availability arms in Colombia. I'm VERY aware you can obtain an assault rifle there. What I meant was your average run-of-the-mill Colombian Criminal can't afford an assault rifle. You can almost assume that anyone with that type of weaponry is with the FARC (as you suggested), or a drug trafficking organization. What we're talking about here is everyday violent criminal acts on civilians. Not a civil war that almost no one in Colombia's biggest cities are directly affected by. A great deal of robberies in Colombia I've heard about happened at knife point. If you think guns are more easily obtained in Colombia than the United States, I'd like to invite you to Texas. I'll only need five minutes to demonstrate my point.

In terms of where I've been in Colombia, you're right, this is a public board. But I invite you to PM me and we can share war stories.

[Researcher]

  Hey Benjio, UC lives in Texas.I get your point.Just about anyone can get an assault weapon here in the US...legally! Just imagine what folks get illegally!

      Researcher

[utopiacowboy]

"Monteria is "low crime area"?  The paramilitaries were running a racket there kidnapping and extorting, and killing anybody who tried to resist.  They were as lawless as FARC-controlled areas, not sure how it is now."

Depends how you define lawless. My wife and I can walk around Monteria even late at night without fear. OTOH, if you've got a big mouth or don't play nicely it can be a very dangerous place. One thing about the AUC, they always brought a certain order to a place.

[dennislevy]

I was gang pickpocketed by a group of piockpockets owrking in unison in Bogota in Februaru 2009. It was distrssing, but it wasnt violent.

I ve walked at nights through towns and cfities in Colombia that most gringos won t go, usually with a woman.....Maicao in La Gualjira, Quibdo en Choco, Ayapel and Monteria en Cordoba, the sprawling mini cites of Suacha and Bosa in South Bogota....Bello and Itagui near Medelli¡n...

I ve never been accosted, never had a problem.....

Men come to Colomba because there is an extraodianry varietyof women here and its still affordable.

[Gato4Astrid]

Bello and Itagui near Medelli¡n...

Care to try to go to San Javier ? !! 

[benjio]

I was gang pickpocketed by a group of piockpockets owrking in unison in Bogota in Februaru 2009. It was distrssing, but it wasnt violent.

I ve walked at nights through towns and cfities in Colombia that most gringos won t go, usually with a woman.....Maicao in La Gualjira, Quibdo en Choco, Ayapel and Monteria en Cordoba, the sprawling mini cites of Suacha and Bosa in South Bogota....Bello and Itagui near Medelli¡n...

I ve never been accosted, never had a problem.....

Men come to Colomba because there is an extraodianry varietyof women here and its still affordable.

I've done the same thing (walked with a woman at night) in various areas of Colombia that I was told were very unsafe. Would I do the same thing in South Chicago, East Los Angeles, or some of the projects in New York or New Orleans?...absolutely not! Which is exactly my point. I honestly don't think those with the opinion that they are more likely to be victims of criminal acts of random violence in populated, modern, urbanized areas of Colombia would prefer to venture through those areas in the U.S. Now if you wanna go backpacking in gorilla land, well...you're kind of asking for it. Gringos stand out. No matter how well you speak Spanish or how long you've lived there.
 
This thread is called "Why are guys coming to Colombia in the first place rather than other countries?" More than anything I'm referring to the chance a man will be a victim of a violent crime in one of the big cities most gringos visit to meet women. Every big city in the world has it's "bad areas" but here's the huge difference between somewhere like Colombia and the U.S. Here, criminals have cars and guns. They drive to more upscale areas to rob people who are better off. Prison sentences are longer and there's a much better chance of a criminal being caught, so I think the likelyhood of being physically harmed or even murdered is greater. The fact that the motivation for most crime in the U.S. is pure greed and not necessity makes these violent acts even more heinous. In Colombia, when a gringo gets robbed, he's usually in an area known for it. If he complies and gives up everything the theif is asking for, he usually will not be harmed; because the criminal has a much slimmer chance of being apprehended after the fact. Your average Colombian petty theif or robber will not have a car to drive to the nice areas most gringos stay in to rob them. The most they can hope for in terms of mobility is two guys on a motorcycle, which I'll admit is a very common method of robbing people (If I'm not mistaken this practice (two men on a motorcycle) has been completely outlawed in the Department of Risaralda).
 
These are just my opinions and maybe I'm crazy or don't have enough experience SOTB, but it seems pretty obvious to me.
 

[dennislevy]

GaTO
I ve alos been to San Javier. My former barrio of Veledromo in Medellin is onthe San Anonio San javier metro line.

[fathertime]

It's a "Living in a Crappy Crime-Ridden Neighborhood" thing. Believe it or not some people actually sit around and brag about how much violence and crime occurs in their neighborhoods. It was always hilarious but shameful to me...forgot I was in better company.

better company, ha!


well i understand your perspective a little better now...yeah i try to avoid the areas where the young folks are wearing baggy pants and their hats sideways...i am no longer 'hip' like that!


Fathertime!

[Micky]

Gato -
 
"Care to try to go to San Javier ? !!"- Gato
 
I have walked many times in San Javier,  it is not in the top half of crap barrios in Medellin.  Some of SJ,  back up the hill is not good,  as a whole SJ does not rank in the no fly zone.  I am a gringo-gringo,  6' - lt. brown hair,  green eyes,  I walk in shorts, t-shirt,  hi-top tennis.  That is at least the second time you called SJ a dangerous place.  I do not know how many "days" you have spent in Medellin,  but you do not know what you are talking about.
 
Micky

[Dan Las Vegas]

"Care to try to go to San Javier ? !!"- Gato"
Try to visit some other parts of the city, San Javier will look like El Poblado in comparison.
Dan LV

[utopiacowboy]

"Care to try to go to San Javier ? !!"- Gato"
Try to visit some other parts of the city, San Javier will look like El Poblado in comparison.
Dan LV

That's the truth. There are barrios way up the hillsides where not even a cab will venture.

It cracks me up to hear guys going on about how safe Colombia is. Houston is far bigger than Medellin and had 267 murders in 2010. Medellin, about half the size, had over 2000. Back in the early part of this decade when I first started going there, they had 6000 to 7000 a year. It has traditionally been the most violent city in the Americas although there were a few years Cali gave them a run for the prize. You talk to any Colombian, they can give you name after name of people who have been killed, fathers, brothers, uncles, sons. I've lived in Texas over 20 years - I don't know anyone who even knows anyone who was the victim of a homicide. Hell, I used to live in a house that didn't even have locks on the doors - in Medellin the first thing you do once you get in the door is lock it.

[Researcher]

    I know my wife's neighborhood in Bogota all you see are steel doors and windows with bars on them.Those steel doors also have multiple dead bolt locks on them also.


      Researcher

[Traveler]

One of my best friends in high school was a Japanese guy whose father was working in the US - they were very nice people.  Anyway, just for the perspective - they did NOT leave the house or their cars locked!  Even though their house was full of high end electronics.  They started to at least lock the cars when my friend's mother's Camry got stolen from a mall parking lot.
 
Bad areas in Medellin are somewhat isolated from the "good" areas.  I never felt in danger walking around Laureles and adjoining areas.  I never felt in danger in El Poblado either, but there are very few people walking around there.  In contrast, when I was in Brazil, the favelas literally adjoined the good areas of the city, and there were homeless everywhere.  And when I was in Venezuela and had a chance to spend a day walking around Caracas I did not as soon as my taxi drove me through it - I just immediately didn't like the atmosphere and didn't feel comfortable.

[V_Man]

While I was sitting with my Colombiana last year I met a girl from Caracas a few months ago. We all three got chatting. Partly in English and partly in Spanish. Unlike parts of the USA it is very rare for people here to speak Spanish. Because I was with my Colombiana and could speak some Spanish I think she assumed I had been to Colombia. I told her I would love to visit her country - Venezuela. I am blue-eyed, white, etc. My girl was not from Medellin but she has that Paisa look. The Venezuelana looked at me and my pretty little Colombiana and said in Spanish:

"I love my country and I want people to visit my country but the reality is that it is a very dangerous place. There are many places that are just crazy [too dangerous]." 

I asked her if she meant just Caracas. She said there are many other dangerous places as well. I asked a few more questions in English and mentioned places I would love to go to in her country.
Eventaully she switched back to Spanish to make a point that she was saying this for our personal benefit and is not something she likes to tell other people. She said to me that there are many nice parts of Venezuela but even if I were to travel with my fluent speaking Colombian girl friend she feared for our safety in Venezuela.
Basically she told me not to go until things change.

So OK only one person's view point but under the circumsatances I think I'll take her advice for now.

[Researcher]

     In Cali during the 90's I went to this jewelry store with a friend.When we arrived I started to get out of the taxi but the driver said to wait.Two armed guards appeared from the store and escorted us in.When we left they escorted us, weapons drawn, to the taxi....never had an experience like that in the US.

       Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

That's the truth. There are barrios way up the hillsides where not even a cab will venture.

It cracks me up to hear guys going on about how safe Colombia is. Houston is far bigger than Medellin and had 267 murders in 2010. Medellin, about half the size, had over 2000. Back in the early part of this decade when I first started going there, they had 6000 to 7000 a year. It has traditionally been the most violent city in the Americas although there were a few years Cali gave them a run for the prize. You talk to any Colombian, they can give you name after name of people who have been killed, fathers, brothers, uncles, sons. I've lived in Texas over 20 years - I don't know anyone who even knows anyone who was the victim of a homicide. Hell, I used to live in a house that didn't even have locks on the doors - in Medellin the first thing you do once you get in the door is lock it.

The barrio my wife lives in Soledad/BAQ is one of those places the cabs will not go. Usually it takes about 10 tries or so to find someone willing to go there. And that is with paying a "surcharge". But I have never seen any crime there at all. But I know it happens. Almost all crime there is done at knifepoint I am told. Most of it theft, cell phone jacking, etc. But they seem to be getting more desperate. A couple months ago, they somehow stole a bunch of cables used for electricity, internet/TV cables, even Christmas lights. They are stealing anything they can resell for a couple pesos. The neighborhood is getting a task force organized to bust heads and protect their turf when these out of town gangs show up. My wife's family is asking me if I can fit some baseball bats into my luggage next trip!!! WTF! This is going to be an exciting trip! But thank God I have never heard any talk of guns in BAQ....yet! When I was in Medellin however, it seems like it is much more gun oriented. Many of the condos I looked at there had these incredible bulletproof entry doors. And the guy showing me the places kept telling me that it is not exactly overkill to have these precautions in Medellin. I have never seen such a thing in BAQ, CTG, or Santa Marta.