Making a living

[Marshall K]

Things are going pretty well.  I’ve managed to meet a few people wanting to improve their English through an ad my wife placed online.  I also got hired by an English language school that provides teachers to schools and businesses as a substitute.  I start a three week elementary gig this week.  The pay is good for China, and should pay the bills and keep us in goodies.  The response to the ad has been surprisingly good.  I’m getting mostly adults wanting a native speaker to converse with.  My friend, Mike, who also married a Chinese lady has been teaching at a nearby high school full time.  He is picking up a lot of students wanting extra tutoring in his spare time.  My wife speaks pretty good English and has good computer skills.  We just placed an ad for a translation service.  Who knows, you might have some of your love letters going through us .  Mike and I are starting to discuss starting an actual school and English service.
Even though the economy is tough here, native English speakers are in demand, so I feel like I made the right decision coming here.  That and it’s 75 degrees here, I have love, great food and lots of new friends.  The local economy is actually pretty good since they don’t rely much on manufacturing stuff to struggling western countries like the US.
The Lunar New Year stuff is over tonight, I think.  Since we live near ground zero for fireworks it has been loud every night, but tonight is supposed to be the big assed display since it is the full moon.
The Consulate in Guangzhou has been denying every woman Yali knows who interviewed there, but the rumor has it that things are loosening up.  We know someone who is interviewing soon, so we’ll see.  At this point, I’m content to stay here, since business looks hopeful here and is the pits at home.
I just started a blog.  It’s in its fledgling stages, but you can see it at emsique.blogspot.com.  I’ll be getting more pix and postings up soon.

[bcc_1_2]

very interesting. I seem to remember Korea paid a lot better than China (with english teachers). Maybe you could educate us on what you can make out on your own. Starting a school does sound like an interesting venture. From what I remember you might make 1500 USD a month in China and 2500 a month USD in Korea (with an apartment included). Neither of those figures sound appealing.

[Jeff S]

1500 a month in China is a nicer lifestyle than 2500 a month in Korea. My father lives quite nicely on 1000 a month in Mexico, and he has to pay his own rent (a 3 bedroom house) and maid. These days with the internet, it is relatively simple to add a thou or two a month to your income to suppliment your overseas

Bob S did the expat English teacher thing in Japan a while back and came home with a wife after a year. Hopefully he'll chime in.

I'm sure you can do far better going it alone than working for one of the big English school networks. I'm eager to hear how your ideas come out Marshall. Do you need a special working visa to start a business and/or earn money? I guess if you're married you could do everything in her name. I'd tread carefully to be sure you don't run afoul of the Chinese government. Many LA (Mexico and Belize for sure) countries offer retirement visas where you can earn a certain amount, and Japan offers cultural studies type visas that allow you to work up to 28 hours/week. I only know about tourist and business visas for China (where you're working for a foreign company.)

[jm21-2]

From what I read on Dave's ESL, $1500 sounds pretty high for china. The norm seemed to be around $700 for a job, and then doing some tutoring on the side you could make maybe another $600 or so (but you'd be working a fairly long week). I looked into it and some jobs were offering as little as $500-600 per month. Depends whether you're working in Shanghai or a small city too. Whether at a private english school or at a university, etc.

Some of the prime teaching jobs in Korea and Japan actually pay quite a bit, but you have to have the right degree, fluency in their language, and all that.

And keep in mind, though the job pay isn't great, some of the jobs are really low hour..I saw as low as 15 hours per week of teaching for some university gigs.

[Capstone]

Considering that the average annual salary in China is about $3500, then $1500/month will go very very far in China.

[bcc_1_2]

Makes sense. I just look at the salary as very low compared to working here. But then again those jobs have the proximity to cute asian girls.

Maybe it makes more sense with the economy sucking here. I'd just hate to quit my job right now. That and I'm looking at starting a business (possibly with someone else) sometime this year in addition to my job. I'll say its a pro sports team but thats it (don't need the feminazis protesting outside the venue), so I just hate abandoning what I have going here for 700 bucks a month.

Would be nice to run an online ticket office and sell sponsorships around international trips... but we shall see. Maybe in a year or two teaching english would end up making more sense.

[Marshall K]

It's all relative.  I'm not here to make a fortune to take back to the states.  The real key is to start thinking in the local currency.  The cost of living in Zhanjiang is pretty cheap, about 1/10 of the rents in Shanghai.
The present exchange rate is 6.825 yuan to the dollar.  It just dropped .005.
Our rent is 1000 yuan a month.  We want to move into a nicer place, so it will go up to around 1500.  Electricity is about 200 a month now, but will go way up when air conditioning season starts.  Our food budget is 1500-2000.  A good restaurant meal for 4 is around 120-160.  A Big Mac meal and McD's is 21.  Cheap lunch of noodles can be 10 or 15.  Taxi across town is 15.  Bus is 1 to 3.  Big bottle of beer is 4.5.  Little bottle of OK brandy, about 6 oz is 6.
I'm making 100 a class, and have 10-20 classes a week.  Private tutoring is 60 an hour.  Mike gets 50 an hour apiece for a group of 4.  He is making 4500 a month from the high school he works for.  Since I am just starting privately, I am charging low.  We live in a well to do area, and as I get more students, the cost will go up.  My wife thinks that I should be able to ultimately charge 100 and hour. 
Right now I am paying the bills, so I'm pretty happy considering I've only been here a month and had nothing definite lined up before I got here.  The quality of life here is really nice compared to most of China. 
I checked our local Craigslist yesterday and the services section is full of unemployed contractors, carpenters, painters, handymen, etc. so I'm very happy about my decision to come here.
I can get a spouse visa good for 6 months at the main police station.  If we start a school, it will be in my wife's name as well as any apartment purchases.

[Bob_S]

Makes sense. I just look at the salary as very low compared to working here. But then again those jobs have the proximity to cute asian girls.

Bingo!

I just checked the salaries for English conversation schools in Japan, and though they haven't risen since I was there over 6 years ago, the exchange rate works in your favor.  Right now, most pay around the equivalent of $2,800~3,000 per month.  Some subsidize rent, some don't.  Could you survive on $35k/yr to be close to prime hunting grounds?  Plus lots of teachers moonlight and do private lessons on the side.  And when you get to know the system better, you can strike out on your own or apply for a better position at a company that sends teachers to big companies to teach executives English.

[bcc_1_2]

Bingo! [img]

Could you survive on $35k/yr to be close to prime hunting grounds? 

Sure I'd think we all could "survive" on that for a year. Its just with finally having a nice job (in this economy) and starting an business in sports is the issue. A lot to walk away from. I think I'm destined to keep working here. I just think quiting a job is a bad idea right now.

[jm21-2]

Exactly...don't want to think about re-starting my practice...and when those $700/month student loan payments come due (I'm on deferment now)  I'd like to be making a bit.

It'd be a pretty good deal for a guy right out of college, or taking a break for a year from a normal job. Or someone who's semi-retired and just wants to keep busy.

And, really...girls are nice, but so are houses and boats and what have you, and I'd like to own a house before marrying due to the divorce laws here in WA.

[Bob_S]

It'd be a pretty good deal for a guy right out of college, or taking a break for a year from a normal job. Or someone who's semi-retired and just wants to keep busy.

Yeah, you really have to be at the right place in life to take advantage of this, quite a bit more effort than a foreign courtship by itself.  From the time I started seriously looking into this until the time I, to coin a phrase, put boots on the ground (er, sneakers on the tarmac?), it took me about a year and a half of prep time.  I had to untangle myself from my own frakked-up Oprah episode and pay off outstanding debts, leaving me precious little in my checking account after I paid off student loans, paid off ex-wife's car she returned to me, put furniture in pre-paid storage for over a year, and purchased a ticket and new laptop.

But if you are running your own business or if you have kids already or crushing debt, this is not for you.

[Marshall K]

After checking out my local work scene in Oregon, seeing how screwed up our economy is, and seeing the continuing downward spiral, I think I'll be staying here awhile to wait out the plunge.  It could be a long wait, but I'm happier here than I have been in years.

[Dave H]

After checking out my local work scene in Oregon, seeing how screwed up our economy is, and seeing the continuing downward spiral, I think I'll be staying here awhile to wait out the plunge.  It could be a long wait, but I'm happier here than I have been in years.

Hey Marshall,

Congratulations! I plan to do the same thing in the Philippines!

Dave

[Marshall K]

Way to go, Dave! 
I just got my visa renewed.  It took a day of jumping through some hoops, but the main police station issued me a 90 day extension.  After that, I just go in with the new groovy papers they gave me, plunk down another 940 yuan and I get 180 days.  After that it's a year.
After all the BS we went through with the Nazis at the American Consulate in Guangzhou, I wish I'd done this a year ago.  They are happy to have a well behaved, educated foreigner here, unlike back home.

[jm21-2]

Well, with the competition's prices still set at when the economy was booming (EDIT: and some very inefficient/expensive business practices, like paying $1k/month for some IT guy to update their antivirus software), I can't help but think this is a good time for a new, young business to under-cut everyone. I am doing way better than anyone thought I would because I offer low rates, low deposits, and am willing to make a payment plan. (EDIT: and do targeted internet advertising on my own instead of paying an arm and a leg to hire an incompetent high school dropout to do it...try to implement some of the cutting edge public licensed software instead of buying insanely expensive office software...etc...etc...).

Now if the government would stop its meddling...

Would be nice to live in China for a while though. There's an A++ girl I've been talking with who's working in Shenzhen and wants me to go on a mini-vacation with her to Qingdao or Sanya (in Hainan) in July or Aug...like $1,500 for a plane ticket :/.

[Capstone]

Would be nice to live in China for a while though. There's an A++ girl I've been talking with who's working in Shenzhen and wants me to go on a mini-vacation with her to Qingdao or Sanya (in Hainan) in July or Aug...like $1,500 for a plane ticket :/.

JM, you can definitely find a better airfare than $1500 just keep shopping around. For my last trip the airfares were listed at around $1600 when I first started looking but I was eventually able to get it for $965 (Atlanta-Shanghai). Also my advice would be to buy an airfare to whichever Chinese city has the lowest price and then just buy a domestic ticket on a chinese airline to Shenzhen from there because domestic airfares are cheap within China. As an FYI - there is a price war going on right now for flights into Shanghai because Continental just began service to Shanghai from Newark and so all the airlines have dropped their prices to Shanghai from the US. I have seen flights to Shanghai for as low as $600 recently - but I think you have to buy the tickets within the next couple of weeks to get that price. China Eastern is also running some pretty good specials to several chinese cities at the moment. Also if the girl that you are going to visit would not mind buying your domestic ticket for you, that would save you even more money because the prices are cheaper within china.

[jm21-2]

Thanks for the info! I had just looked at a couple places to get a general feel and was a little surprised. I'm not sure about Shenzhen or Hainan in July (a little hot for my northern blood maybe), but Qingdao would probably be just about perfect and I really want to visit there (it's her hometown too). We'll see. I'd rather go a bit earlier if I'm able to. I'll definitely keep in mind the idea of getting domestic tickets.

[bcc_1_2]

that ticket would be even more if you were from the midwest unfortunately.

[jm21-2]

that ticket would be even more if you were from the midwest unfortunately.

Rack it up as one more thing that sucks about living in the midwest .

[Marshall K]

Yeah, Dorothy and Toto sure weren't wanting to leave Santa Barbara.

[Cardboard]

Hey Marshall was just reading up on your whole situation and you seem to be doing very well.  I noticed a lot of people saying that the "middle class" life style is lived on the English teacher's salary which is from about 15 hours of work.  I'm used to putting in 60 hours a week here so if the works available I can see living over there comfortably can absolutely be obtained.  I am interested to see more how living every day in China  is though to see if it will work well with my personality.  It absolutely sounds like a great option though.  How much more do you enjoy being a a part of the new culture after leaving the country?

[Bob_S]

I noticed a lot of people saying that the "middle class" life style is lived on the English teacher's salary which is from about 15 hours of work.  I'm used to putting in 60 hours a week here so if the works available I can see living over there comfortably can absolutely be obtained.

Just to let you know, that is 15-20 hours of in-class time.  That doesn't include the extra 15-20 hours of prep time required each week (going over the lesson material, wrapping your head around the grammar point you are trying to teach, coming up with adequate examples to fill an hour's class, student progress reports, staff meetings, student counselling, and tidying up your classroom and school office since the school is probably too cheap to hire a janitor).  It ends up being full time work.  But mostly enjoyable because of the students who are there because they really want to learn your language.

[Cardboard]

Makes sense to me now.  So total in a week you end up looking at roughly a normal 40 hour work week.  Then on top of that you can squeeze in 10-20 private lessons if available, which doesn't seem to bad at all.  I can't wait to get the ball rolling on this because it seems like a great opportunity for me.  Thinking about doing this for a year or so to see how I like it and then assess my situation from there.  I have been looking forward to living in another culture for so long now that I'm itching with excitement to get started!  But I know I have to take it slow and make sure I go prepared.  Gotta try to meet some girls online to chat with first so I have at least some friends when I arrive and a guide.

[Bob_S]

Makes sense to me now.  So total in a week you end up looking at roughly a normal 40 hour work week.  Then on top of that you can squeeze in 10-20 private lessons if available, which doesn't seem to bad at all.

Whoa.  Take it easy there.  If you're working 60-hour work weeks, when will you have time to get out and experience the culture (and meet GIRLS!)?  If you just want to be a worker bee making a living, you can do that here.  Don't work any more than you have to over there.  You'll quickly find you'll jealously guard your free time that's necessary to get out and see, do, experience.  I just had a few privates, just for beer and sushi money.  You'll find you'll want to travel, too.  That takes all weekend (take the train there and back), so no weekend overtime.  Let the locals bust their humps for the yuan.  That's not why we go there. 

[Cardboard]

Whoa.  Take it easy there.  If you're working 60-hour work weeks, when will you have time to get out and experience the culture (and meet GIRLS!)? 

You are absolutely right and I was not really thinking to much into that when I posted.  I really just want to live comfortably and experience all the culture while hopefully meeting girls, so I guess as much free time as I can get will help out.  I'm just too used to my routine over here where I grab up all the OT I can muster whenever it's available.  From what I have been reading though, most of these entry level teaching positions start on an average of 3-4,000 RMB with an included room, which sounds like a comfortable way to live.  2 or 3 more weeks and I will be completely debt free and my passport should be coming in as well, so I may even take a trip over to visit for a while first to get an idea and then go back when I acquire a job.