How's this for starters?

[Veracity]

As per the advice I've already received here, I just signed up with two Asian "online dating services".....Filipinaheart and chinalovelinks.

I have a few questions that I hope you won't mind answering. This is all new to me so please forgive my ignorance.

Their photos:
Many of the photos appear completely legit...simply because of the quality and the location of the shot. (Slightly grainy quality...showing the woman in her daily life)
However, there are a few photos that are obviously professionally taken. The women in these photos usually do not seem to look to be the same age as the profile suggests. Should I assume that these are simply older pictures of the woman that were taken by an agency several years ago? Or...is that a red flag?

The age range of the men they're looking for:
I'm 45...so I'm too old for some of the ladies out there....which is fine. There are all sorts of age ranges that women have but when you see their age range listed as 18-80, is that a red flag? What 28 year old woman (who was not a hustler) would seriously entertain the notion of marrying a guy in his 60s or 70s?

Meeting only one woman per trip:
I read this advice here last night...and it sort of freaked me out. In some respects, it makes sense. You want to devote as much time as possible to a woman in order to cultivate a relationship. But damn, the Pacific Ocean is pretty big! Is there no tactful way to visit more than one woman per trip?

Last logged on:
How important or significant is this date? Some of those women haven't logged on in months. Should I automatically disregard anyone who has been inactive for over two months or so?

Give me any and all advice you can. Point me in any and all directions. I plan on taking my time and "doing it right"......if there is such a thing.

[Capstone]

1. I would dump chinalovelinks and move away from the whole 'agency' angle. In China what you will get a lot of on those agency sites is you will eventually find out that you aren't actually communicating directly with the girl that you thought you were - instead there is a translater doing all the communication between the 2 of you. What chinalovelinks actually is, is sort of a clearinghouse so to speak for many other small agencies and some of those agencies will expect to be paid if the girl finds a suitable partner.

2. Instead of going the agency route, I would move towards some of the social/dating type sites that are available. Another member on here (jm21) has reported great success with meeting Chinese women on www.plentyoffish.com. I know several guys who met their Chinese wives via the WorldFriends Network - this is a dating/social network that has a number of portals in which you can connect to their database, one of which I know is www.japanesefriendfinder.com.
With either of those 2 sites you contact the other people directly and so you know that there is no translater involved - plus the pictures that are posted are real life photos and not those glamor shots that you saw on those agency sites.

3. If you are thinking of going the China route then I would definitely advise to only plan on visiting 1 girl per trip. A Chinese girl would probably not take too kindly to the fact that you are visiting other women and would quickly curbside your butt if she found out that you were. Now that is not to say that you can't have some sort of backup plan in case things don't work out but I would not plan on splitting my time between several girls on the same trip. In China, and I would think most of Asia, this would not be a good strategy.

Good Luck!

[Ray]

Veracity,

No, there is no such thing as “doing it right”. All kinds of different strategies have worked for some guys, so I would do what feels right for you. The best general strategy from my viewpoint is to do things that will increase your odds of finding a good woman.

Can you meet more than one per trip? That has worked for some guys, but I wouldn’t do it personally. One thing you should NOT do is try to hide the fact from the ladies that you are meeting someone else too. If you want to meet more than one per trip, at least be up front and honest about it.

What 28 year old woman (who was not a hustler) would seriously entertain the notion of marrying a guy in his 60s or 70s? You’d be surprised. It could be a lady who is simply tired of playing games with immature guys who don’t have a clue how to treat a lady. We’ve had very successful marriages here with members in their 60’s who married ladies 18-21. If you are looking for a general guideline to use as a tool in selecting initial candidates, try the “half your age plus seven” rule as a minimum age for her.

I agree with Cap. Stay away from any agencies that use intermediaries and/or charge you for translation services!

As far as photos go, I recommend writing to either ladies with no photos posted or with crummy, fuzzy, “ugly”  photos. See what her character is like before you get distracted by a pretty face or a sexy bod. Personally, I would stay away from the professional glamour shots.

As far as your photo, I would initially post or send one that is not your best. If you think you are clicking after corresponding for a while, then send her a better photo so she’ll be pleasantly surprised.

To me, the preferred method of meeting ladies overseas is to make friends with families or persons here who are from the area/country you are interested in. Personal recommendations from friends or family who know you both seems to work very well most of the time…and it’s free.

Ray

[jm21-2]

Going that far just to meet one girl is very daunting. I did it twice so far..the first time it didn't work out which made the second time all the harder. But my girlfriend would never have dated me if she had any indication I was going to meet another girl, despite liking me a lot. She's worried enough because I dated a girl while we were just internet friends. I don't know about Filipinas but I would say it's a very bad idea in China to meet multiple girls...the kind of girls who would agree to meet multiple guys may not be what you're looking for.

And just as a warning, don't think this is a cheap process. I'm a bit over $5-6k everything included I think and probably looking at another $4-5k at the minimum before even getting engaged...then some more for weddings and immigration and so forth...assuming things work out. Some guys go and marry the girl on the first 10-day trip then don't see her again until she arrives here in the US, but that's not really my thing.

[Bob_S]

Their photos:
Many of the photos appear completely legit...simply because of the quality and the location of the shot. (Slightly grainy quality...showing the woman in her daily life)
However, there are a few photos that are obviously professionally taken. The women in these photos usually do not seem to look to be the same age as the profile suggests. Should I assume that these are simply older pictures of the woman that were taken by an agency several years ago? Or...is that a red flag?

It could be a current photo.  Asian women often look far younger for their age than western women.
Professional photo studio made profile pics are not a bad thing.  What to watch out for are the sexied-up glamor shots.  An Asian marriage-seeking woman will not want to sell herself on her sexiness.  Beauty, maybe; but not sexiness.  That can lead you to scammers with sick mothers who need you to send them money for medicine, operations, rent, whatever.  So think of it as a yellow flag, not quite red.

The age range of the men they're looking for:
I'm 45...so I'm too old for some of the ladies out there....which is fine. There are all sorts of age ranges that women have but when you see their age range listed as 18-80, is that a red flag? What 28 year old woman... would seriously entertain the notion of marrying a guy in his 60s or 70s?

One who may regard herself as undesirable within her own culture for whatever reason.  Cap can speak to this better than I, but from what I've read, mainland Chinese men still want to marry a traditional young virgin.  So if a woman is divorced or widowed or simply no longer a spring chicken, and she still wants to get married, she must expand her available pool.  A 30-something Chinese man may not regard her as a young beauty, but a 60-something man would.  So she is being realistic within the constraints of her culture.

Meeting only one woman per trip:
I read this advice here last night...and it sort of freaked me out. In some respects, it makes sense. You want to devote as much time as possible to a woman in order to cultivate a relationship. But damn, the Pacific Ocean is pretty big! Is there no tactful way to visit more than one woman per trip?

Tactful, no.  If you feel you really need to, you have to be very surreptitious.  You definitely can't meet two women in the same town.  It would involve a lot of lying or at least truth-twisting that you may not feel comfortable doing in a serious courtship.
That being said, though, DO HAVE BACK-UPs.  If things don't work out with the gal you go to meet in Guangzhou, have a pen-pal you can call up to meet in Shanghai who can at least show you the town, see the night view across the river from Huangpu Park.

[Capstone]

One who may regard herself as undesirable within her own culture for whatever reason.  Cap can speak to this better than I, but from what I've read, mainland Chinese men still want to marry a traditional young virgin.  So if a woman is divorced or widowed or simply no longer a spring chicken, and she still wants to get married, she must expand her available pool.  A 30-something Chinese man may not regard her as a young beauty, but a 60-something man would.  So she is being realistic within the constraints of her culture.

The belief that Chinese men only want to marry young virgins is pretty much a myth. The Chinese aren't hung up on the whole virginity quest so to speak. In fact I just read an article in China Daily last week that discussed what are the most desirable features that Chinese men look for when contemplating marriage and virginity was way down on the list like at #10 - Chinese men are much more concerned with what a woman can bring into the marriage such as earning power, family connections, ect.

Age, at least in urban areas, is not nearly as important as it was even 20 years ago. The average marriage age in urban areas is now almost 30 for both men and women. One of my brother in laws is married to a woman who is 3 years older than him - so age was not too big of a concern to him.

When it comes to divorce and children though then a woman's chances of finding a Chinese guy for marriage really start to decrease. Most Chinese guys will only consider a divorced woman as a last resort and almost no Chinese guy will consider a woman that already has a kid because of the 1 child policy - they all want to have their own kid but if they marry a woman who already has a child then having one of their own is no longer an option.

[arriaga]

As per the advice I've already received here, I just signed up with two Asian "online dating services".....Filipinaheart and chinalovelinks.

The girls who register in agencies do not have total control over how the agency displays them in their website. Sometimes they have no control at all. The profiles in the site can only give you an initial idea of what the girl looks like and what she is really looking for. For instance, on the age of the man they are prepared to consider, it can be that they were told what to put to attract interest or the agency did it for them.

I am saying that you need to find out for yourself what the girl is really like, if she interests you. For instance, If you tell them what your age is it could be that their profile said they were prepared to consider someone of your age but in reality they want someone younger. Or it could be the other way round! in their profile they said that they wanted a younger man but once you got in touch with them, they are prepared to consider you.

Also, spending all that time and money to travel to a far away country to meet one girl you have only exchanged a few messages or letters with is a very bad idea. It can cost you in heartache too. I have met girls who decided they did not like the man within the first 10 minutes of meeting him in person, because "he was not the man they knew from his letters" And it happens the other way round too!

[robert angel]

If she's 30-40 years old and has her high school graduation picture as her profile pic, I'd be concerned....

[jm21-2]

Also, spending all that time and money to travel to a far away country to meet one girl you have only exchanged a few messages or letters with is a very bad idea. It can cost you in heartache too. I have met girls who decided they did not like the man within the first 10 minutes of meeting him in person, because "he was not the man they knew from his letters" And it happens the other way round too!

While that's certainly a possibility, the argument is that in many Asian countries you will completely miss out on some of the best girls if they know you are going to meet multiple girls. In Latin or FSU countries this probably isn't a problem at all, but in some Asian countries it could be a big problem.

And I would argue that if one person dislikes the other within the first 10 minutes someone was lying...

[arriaga]

While that's certainly a possibility, the argument is that in many Asian countries you will completely miss out on some of the best girls if they know you are going to meet multiple girls. In Latin or FSU countries this probably isn't a problem at all, but in some Asian countries it could be a big problem.

And I would argue that if one person dislikes the other within the first 10 minutes someone was lying...

No-one owes "loyalty" to someone they have never met in person and it works both ways. I see nothing wrong with both parties exploring the relationship in person with 2 or more people before they decide who to pursue. This is true for any country in the world. Trying to impress a lady by proving to her that she is "the one" and that you do not talk to anyone else is not going to get you anywhere if she is not really interested. After all, if you go to a "social" no-one is going to complain that you are talking to other women. 

About women (and men) who realise that they do not really like the other party within 10 minutes of meeting in person is already proven by scientific studies. What they say about the "chemistry of the relationship" is actually true, both parties analyse each other "chemically" and unconsciously making a pretty quick -again unconscious- decision as to whether they are biologically compatible. The details of studies on this matter are too lengthy to write here. There are also all those things about reading each other's subtle expressions. None of these things happen in letters, e-mails, phone calls or even video-chat.

[jm21-2]

The two girls I have met and the vast majority of the 'good' Chinese girls I've talked with expected a pretty decent amount of commitment, especially after you've bought tickets and are planning on visiting them. The first girl planned on me meeting the family right off the bat which would have been an incredible embarrassment to her if I was planning on meeting another girl as well. The second was very hurt that I went on some dates while we were just online friends and I didn't even know she had a romantic interest in me. As far as my experience has been, commitment is very big for Chinese girls my age. I don't think you would ever meet a decent girl at some sort of love tour in China. Capstone can probably speak to this more. It might seem silly to a western guy but with both the girls I met they had made up their mind on me within a few days or weeks of starting to chat with me and stuck with it.

It seems to me that several or many of the guys on the Asian forum tend to be of the mindset that a 6 with a good personality becomes a 9 pretty easily. You can learn a lot about a person's personality online. I think the initial aversion or attraction (chemistry) is mostly based on looks and body language and is something that can be overcome pretty easily. Then again, I look for relationships that are more on an intellectual level than on a physical level.

[Ray]

No-one owes "loyalty" to someone they have never met in person and it works both ways. I see nothing wrong with both parties exploring the relationship in person with 2 or more people before they decide who to pursue. This is true for any country in the world. Trying to impress a lady by proving to her that she is "the one" and that you do not talk to anyone else is not going to get you anywhere if she is not really interested. After all, if you go to a "social" no-one is going to complain that you are talking to other women. 

About women (and men) who realise that they do not really like the other party within 10 minutes of meeting in person is already proven by scientific studies. What they say about the "chemistry of the relationship" is actually true, both parties analyse each other "chemically" and unconsciously making a pretty quick -again unconscious- decision as to whether they are biologically compatible. The details of studies on this matter are too lengthy to write here. There are also all those things about reading each other's subtle expressions. None of these things happen in letters, e-mails, phone calls or even video-chat.

I have to agree with jm on this one.

You cannot make a valid case that “this is true for any country in the world”, unless you have spent considerable time in every country in the world and/or you are intimately familiar with every culture on earth.

I can tell you from my personal experience that going to visit several ladies can be very problematic in the Philippines. In Asia, “face” is a big part of the culture and like jm said, going to meet a girl’s parents in-between meeting other girls could be a big embarrassment for the girl. It’s not a matter of “loyalty” but more one of respect for the feelings and cultural customs of the ladies.

And I believe that you can get to know a lot about someone through correspondence, phone calls, and on-line chatting. It worked for me and by the time I went to visit my now wife, we were already best friends and there were no big surprises when we met.

I also think that all of these theories about “chemistry” and knowing you’re ‘biologically compatible’ within 10 minutes of meeting in person are a bunch of hooey, scientific studies or not.

I also see absolutely nothing wrong with a man going to meet a lady abroad after communicating for only a short time. For some guys (and gals), it is important to meet in person before investing a lot of time in a possible relationship, and it seems to work for them.

I say go ahead and communicate with all the ladies you think you can handle, but when visiting them in an Asian country, try to see only one per trip. You don’t have to commit your whole trip to spending it with her, but at least show her the respect she deserves by not having a whole string of ladies lined up for personal visits on the same trip.



Ray

[arriaga]

I am sorry but I still don't see it. There are people here who seem to think that someone seeing various women (or men) before making any commitment or even meeting them in person is somehow a "cheat".

There may be people who have money and time to keep going far away to meet one lady per trip, but this is not the case for the average guy. Also, people here (and others I know) have said how they have come back home dejected and with little will power for another trip after their meeting with the lady they went to see on their first trip went disastrously wrong. I think I tend to see looking for a foreign bride from a more practical point of view than a strictly romantic one.

As for the purely biological way we act on meeting a member of the opposite sex I will believe more a bunch of scientists who have spent years studying it than anybody who has not carried out a study and just opines about it.

[jm21-2]

I'm not sure it's as much about cheating as lack of respect, as Ray put it.

For example, from my personal experiences:

With my Chinese girlfriend (I didn't know any of this until later...she also wasn't being romantic online before we met) she had delayed getting a job for a significant period of time so that she would be able to spend the whole time I was there with me. She also turned down some possible suitors. She arranged for me to meet her family early on. If I had arranged to meet multiple girls it would have been spitting in her and her family's face.

When I met my current girlfriend, she 1. bought an expensive plane ticket (almost as expensive as mine), 2. used up all her Chinese New Year vacation, plus 2 days of her discretionary vacation time (out of 7 days total she gets per year), 3. skipped seeing her family on new years, and 4. arranged to spend time, including staying in the same hotel room, with a guy she hadn't met in person. If I had had some dates lined up (I was tempted to for a while because she was making no romantic moves or talk and I really didn't think she thought of me romantically) that would have been incredibly disrespectful to her. In the end I bit the bullet and wrote it off as a vacation with a friend and nothing romantic likely to happen. Fortunately I was wrong.

I can totally understand the frustration of making a 'failed' trip. As I said, my first trip I went to meet a girl and we ended up not working out. Second trip I went to meet a girl thinking nothing would come of it. Those two trips, all things considered, were $5k or so plus 4 weeks vacation (which is a huge cost for me since I'm self-employed). That's just what you have to deal with if you want to meet a real decent non-desperate Asian girl for the most part. They are making sacrifices to meet you too, so don't feel too bad. If you become beleaguered by taking a trip to an exotic country maybe this isn't the right path...

By the way, assuming things continue working out well, I'll be taking 2-3 more trips to Asia this year and she'll visit here early next year. This whole process can be an enormous expense.

[Capstone]

I am sorry but I still don't see it. There are people here who seem to think that someone seeing various women (or men) before making any commitment or even meeting them in person is somehow a "cheat".

I don't think that anyone has said that seeing various women before making a commitment somehow constitutes a cheat. What we are saying is that the concept of seeing multiple girls at the same time goes well beyond the cultural norms of most Asian countries and that is something that must be respected if a guy wants to ultimately be successful in finding a decent life long partner within Asia. Trying to take what may be a successful strategy in one country and applying it to another country will not always be successful.

It is pretty simple really - if someone wants to go to another country and meet multiple girls on the same trip then Asia probably is not the best destination for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that since we all have our preferences.

[jm21-2]

I would probably be more disappointed if I traveled all the way over there and the girls I met just saw me as one of several guys, didn't take time off work, didn't have any special plans on how to spend her time with me, didn't want to introduce me to their family, etc.

If you are traveling to some country and expect 3+ different girls to take a significant amount of their scarce vacation time just in the hopes of spending some time with you...that's quite a bit arrogant and/or speaks to the desperation of the girls you're meeting.

[Veracity]

Well, you guys have convinced me.......one lady per trip is the best way to go.

I'm an airline pilot, so the traveling back and forth is a non-issue. It was just an efficiency thing......time, scheduling, etc. 

[bcc_1_2]

Well, you guys have convinced me.......one lady per trip is the best way to go. 

Your time, your money, your call. In latin america there is no way in hell i'd travel down just to meet one. But of course asia and LA are different. Still no matter where I was going I'd have a backup plan. My plan a,b, and c was generally just go out and have a good time. But if that's not you plan accordingly. You can spend 24 hours and a lot of money to get some place and find out in 5 minutes this girl just isn't for you.

[Ray]

As for the purely biological way we act on meeting a member of the opposite sex I will believe more a bunch of scientists who have spent years studying it than anybody who has not carried out a study and just opines about it.

Are you one of those scientists who has spent years studying this topic or are you just opining about it? 

That’s what we are here for, to express our opinions and share ideas. You certainly don’t have to believe me and if you are wise, you won’t believe everything a bunch of scientists tell you either. Look at the phony Global Warming nonsense they have been feeding us for years. 

Ray

[Jeff S]

This isn't about shopping, it's about connecting with one person. I've never understood the often pervasive attitude around here that it is some sort of unpleasant task that needs to be done in the shortest time possible for the least amount of money. It's about adventure, fun, and falling in love. It will take as long as it takes and will cost less than being married in the long haul, so what's the rush?

We used to have a very attractive, intelligent Filipina regular poster here who had a hard and fast rule - if you were shopping, she wasn't interested. If you were as much as writing to several women, she wasn't interested in you. OK harsh - but she had standards, and there's nothing wrong with that. She found her guy and moved to the US a few years back and quit posting here. 

[whitey]

This isn't about shopping, it's about connecting with one person. I've never understood the often pervasive attitude around here that it is some sort of unpleasant task that needs to be done in the shortest time possible for the least amount of money. It's about adventure, fun, and falling in love. It will take as long as it takes and will cost less than being married in the long haul, so what's the rush?

Excellent comment, Jeff.

[evoltnvii]

Excellent comment, Jeff.

Agreed, well said sir!

[Bob_S]

It was just an efficiency thing......time, scheduling, etc. 

If you want an efficient life, don't marry a woman.  No women, no children, no pets.    Don't even get a house plant, for that matter.  Lonely people have very efficient lives.

If you hope to pursue this path to success, you will spend a lot of time, and you will spend a lot of money.  It could take years, and you will find yourself wasting time going down false leads.  It's par for the course.  But worth the effort.

[thekfc]

Veracity, I too was a member of Filipinaheart. I found my current lady there. I was also a member on Filipinamatch. Even though that I did my research before hand, I did go thru a lot of bumps - we all do.

The guys already told you what to look for in the lady's pics. There is also something else I would like to throw out there. Look at their body language. When they are typing - are they responding to you or someone else. Is there a delay response when chatting. Also say a joke or two to see if they immediately laugh.

My girl sister owns an internet cafe, I did visited it a few times & watch the "activities" of some of the people in there. The vast majority of the ladies & men were going about their business but I did notice a scammers. I notice one lady who had a cam on her but a male "friend" of hers was chatting to a guy pretending to be her. Just keep an open eye & look for warning signs. Also when you chat - try to chat with just one lady at a time, give all your attention to that one person - you would want the same thing in return. Also be aware of the time difference - day for us & night for time and vice versa.

With my current lady, I chatted with her for a while, I also chatted with all her sisters, one of her brother, her nieces, nephews, some of her neighbors & her best friend. When I say chat - I mean talk via Yahoo Messenger, Skype, Messenger Live & telephone - both text & voice. 

And when I went to see her in January - she was the only lady that I did plan on seeing. If things didn't go right then my backup plan was to enjoy the food, the place & the culture also & to learn all that I could while I was there. I am planning to return in late June.

[robert angel]

Regarding:

>>The guys already told you what to look for in the lady's pics. There is also something else I would like to throw out there. Look at their body language. When they are typing - are they responding to you or someone else. Is there a delay response when chatting. Also say a joke or two to see if they immediately laugh.<<

Very good advice--you can go into internet cafes and see gals with 4 guys at a time on webcams, dealing them all at the same time. Usually they smile intermittently or keep a smirk of a smile almost all the time--like a 'mona lisa smile' or 'poker faced'--either of which isn't appealing no matter what.

Some guys 'pimp out' these gals on line, making sure that everything gets typed in to maximize profiting off of the inevitable percentage of rubes out there  who fall for their 'game'.


There are few absolutes, but if she's dressed for sex in a sprayed on tube top and loaded up with make up, such as heavy eye liner and fire engine red lipstick, the more leery you ought to be....