Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[Alabamaboy!]

I don't think they can or should tax you on money already made. I think all future earnings yes! Until the budget is balanced. And watch how fast it will happen! If all those making more than $100K get taxed an extra 20% they will finally vote in someone wielding a machete to fix the budget. Guaranteed. There would be the highest voter turn out in the history of this country.

THe old rich guys who already made their cash and want to step out of the picture?? Fine, step aside and let some younger, hungrier guys in the mix.

Look at the auto industry, GM for example. They let the whole company rot from the inside out and the outside in. Until it collapsed in bankruptcy. So then what happened? Complete reorganization including major loss of jobs, cut out all the fat, and look what happened. They are turning huge profits now. And more importantly, making products that are worth something.

Before that, companies like Kia, Hyuandai, and others...the newer, less expensive, companies were kicking GM's butt by taking more and more market share each year.

And another thing, just because you have bags of dollars stashed away does not necessarily make them worth anything with what is going on with the dollar dropping against many currencies.

And the money you have is not going to do much for you when we are licking the boots of the Chinese when they own us for generations to come. Because we are such near sighted fools that we just keep borrowing and borrowing from them.

The security of the US is at stake with all this reckless borrowing.

Jm-21: The 9/11 guys were Saudis. Many others consider Hugo a terrorist. We have a hard time figuring out who's ass to kiss next so we give huge sums of money to both the Saudis, Israelis, Pakistanis, and whoever else has their hand out. And to be part of the world economy is a great goal, but how about us trying to sell something instead of importing much of our energy, raw materials which puts our overall security in the hands of others. Oh, and how about stopping the borrowing of Chinese money to do all this in the first place.

I would love to have a bunch of guards at my house 24/7 to provide security, but I do not have the luxury to borrow money from the mafia to do it. And when they ask for their money, just print a bunch of monopoly money and expect it all to work out for me.

Caps on healthcare work. Everytime they make some new rules or reimbursement cuts, more and more doctors, and other healthcare workers retire or stop accepting those insurances. And other guys step into their place. We have a bunch of docs here who did that. And some new ones just came in from Philippines, India, Pakistan and do the same work or better and are happy with the rates.

Drastic measures like this are not nice, or preferable. But at this time, thanks to some really bad decisions, some drastic measures need to be taken. Sooner rather than later.

It seems to have helped with GM. If you asked the guys that lost their jobs, I bet they are not too happy. But if you ask the ones who are still working now and owners of the company, they are very healthy.

[Bob_S]

1. Move social security age to 70.

How about admitting SS is what it is, welfare for the elderly, and make it means tested?  Right now we have a system of wealth transfer from the have-nots to the haves, where a wealthy person reaping $500k/yr in dividends also receives SS paid for in taxes from workers making $40k/yr.  Make it for the elderly poor, not the elderly rich.

2. Slash about 1/3 of the defense budget. Use more drones, less conventional weaponry. Get rid of the Navy. The pirates of Somalia do as they please anyway. We are too much of nice guys to take them out. So do everything with drones and missles.

Where do you think we launch those drones and missiles from?  The Navy is particularly useful because it allows us to project power to places we have interest without having to make friends (i.e. bribe) with every petty despot in the area to allow us to set up land bases.
The nice guy kid gloves approach to pirates has more to do with the commander in chief and his preferred method of conflict resolution.  Eventually we'll get a president who won't shy away from looking strong to the thugs of the world.

3. Raise taxes on those who make more than $500K per year. If they don't like it, tell them to go somewhere else to live and work. See if they can make that much money working in Peru or Colombia.

As a matter of fact, they do go somewhere else to live and work.  And they take their money and business with them.  Can't leave their family and friends?  Bah.  They don't lie around their backyard pools on weekends thinkin' "golly gee, I'd sure be willing to pay a million bucks a year extra in taxes to be able to do this every weekend!"  They're probably spending their weekends working, which is why they're rich.  And it's not hard for the truly wealthy to set up residence in a no-income tax state or country then have extended visits to where ever they prefer to live.  California is seeing the effects of that.  The "soak the rich" policies of the Soviet Politburo in Sacramento has been a blessing to the economies of Nevada, Oregon, and Arizona.
The best policy: flat tax with no deductions.  Everybody, whether you make 10 cents or 10 billion bucks, pays the same rate.  That way everybody has skin in the game and a vested interest in keeping spending low.

4. Drill for oil in Alaska or wherever. If the treehuggers don't like it tell them to leave too. We can shut off the spigot when we balance the budget. The pipelines and refineries will generate lots of jobs.

I'm on board with that.  Don't forget the tar sands in Utah.  And you don't even have to do off-shore drilling for a lot of it.  You can slant drill from the beach.  Much safer for crew and environment.

5. Develop green energy source to make us completely independent from terrorist countries like Saudi Arabia (land of the 9/11 guys), Venezuela, etc.

I'd be on board for that too except for one big problem: the environmentalists are stifling the development of green technology.  Yes, that's right.  The eco tree huggers are blocking green tech.  They have stalled the completion of Yucca Mountain necessary for the further development of nuclear power, and they've blocked the mining of minerals necessary for green tech electronics (source).  As a result, we are dependent on, who?  Who?  China!  Yeah, if you want to install solar panels or get an electric car with a lithium battery, you're buying either chinese-made electronics or components made with materials imported from China.
Thus the irony: if you want to save the environment, get rid of the environmentalists.

6. Slash payments to health care providers by 33% across the board. If they don't like it, they can retire too. There are plenty of physicians from India or where ever who will work for that rate. If we there are problems with a shortage at first, relax immigration to allow them in. It will only be temoporary because the American trained folks will soon realize that there is no place on earth which can afford the salaries they previously were making and will accept the cuts.

Health care providers work harder than anyone else in any profession.  They earn every cent.  And they are retiring, getting out of the business.  And it is a business.  If the providers can't make enough to compensate for the effort they put in, they'll go do something else just like anybody else.  Or they'll take their business south.  Then, just like Canadians, if you need life-saving medical care, you'll have to travel to the violent dangerous neighbor to the south.
Besides, doctors' pay is just a third of your overall medical costs.

Those are some tough cuts, but hey, we gotta do something. Or are we going to be China's bitch forever?

Obamessiah as already ensured that we are China's bee-yatch until our grandkids pay off his massive debt.

I don't think they can or should tax you on money already made. I think all future earnings yes! Until the budget is balanced. And watch how fast it will happen! If all those making more than $100K get taxed an extra 20% they will finally vote in someone wielding a machete to fix the budget. Guaranteed. There would be the highest voter turn out in the history of this country.

But those making $100k are a small part of the electorate, a fraction compared to those who pay nothing in taxes and vote in politicians who promise to take even more from those making $100k or more and "spread the wealth".

And another thing, just because you have bags of dollars stashed away does not necessarily make them worth anything with what is going on with the dollar dropping against many currencies.

What is this, the 1930's?  Who keeps bags of cash anywhere?  The smart money is getting out of dollars, into gold or foreign currencies.  At least into international mutual funds.  Japan is expecting the dollar to tank against the Yen.  As for me, I've pulled my money out of the stock market and am getting it out of the country to someplace it will hold value till I need it.

[jm21-2]

It wasn't Obama who started borrowing from foreign countries. We may actually owe Japan more than China pretty soon: http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2010/10/12/japan-may-soon-pass-china-as-top-holder-of-u-s-debt-7580.html

As much as I dislike democrats, I dislike republicans even more. At least Clinton was starting to get us in shape financially.

Means-tested social security would do us a lot of good. Same for Medicare. Some aspects of the system in AUS really make sense...means-tested state retirement, welfare benefits for young families, extensive unemployment benefits...if we're going to provide welfare at least give it to those who need it.

AB,

I don't see anything wrong with importing. Yes, it's good to have exports, but is taxing successful businesses to subsidize green energy really creating more exports? I find that hard to believe.

Nothing wrong with letting GM fail. That wasn't a drastic measure by the government, it was the market. If we actually had capitalism in the health care system we might see similar results.

[Alabamaboy!]

JM: Exactly right, let them all go bankrupt, re-organize, slash costs and make a product or provide a service which is worth something in the world market. The healthcare industry also. I just had a crown made, teeth cleaning, another filling, xrays, thorough exam with explanation in English, color video "tour" of my teeth.....in Mexico... with a total cost of $340. IN the US, it would cost over $3K. And probably worse service. And definitely no open on the weekends. I think we can be a little more competetive with costs for such services here in the US. And nobody is going to die from hunger. If a Registered Nurse averages a salary of $20K in most other industrialized countries, does it make sense that here they get $80K? What about the $100K garbageman? Can't we be a bit more competitive in the world? If not, then the whole industry will collapse and possibly drag the entire country down with it.

The reason that we are in this economic mess in the first place is that there was this sense of entitlement that somehow everyone deserves a house, 6 figure salary, three cars, etc, etc.

We cannot currently compete in the world market.

Means Tested SS?? OK. Fine.

[Alabamaboy!]

Where do we launch the drones from??? Well, let's at least make a decision, either we launch them from the sea, or we launch them from Saudi, Pakistan, Israel, Colombia, Philippines, or anywhere else that is on our payroll. If we want to play with the ships, then stop with the bribes to all the other countries. We cannot afford everything. If we can balance the budget some day then we can play with all the boats and tanks again. We cannot afford it. Every dollar we are borrowing from someone else to play war, is getting us more and more deeper in the hole. If you think that is not a problem ask the Soviets what happened when they were bled dry in Afghanistan.

I make pretty good money. If I take home $250K or $350K I am not going to bitch too much. I am getting paid more than I could make anywhere else in the world. So I am not going to be greedy. If I want to do the same business in any other country, I would probably make 20% of what I make here. I think most people are in that boat. If you work in the post office here, after 15 years or so, your total compensation package is probably worth like $80K per year or so. So if you make $60K under the new plan what are you going to do? Go to Mexico and work in the post office??? You will be lucky if you have enough $ to buy a taco every day.

All this talk about environmentalists is nonsense. This is a war. WE should be in survival mode. If I am starving to death and someone gives me a hamburger, I am not going to worry about my cholesterol!!! I can worry about that later. WE need to get our sheet together and we can worry about being nice guys later.

[piglett]

http://www.mbbsoftware.com/Articles/CycleOfDemocracy.aspx

it always ends the same, make sure your seats are in the up-rite & locked position
this mite be a rough ride !!!


pig

[fathertime]

AB your outburst of wild and wacky posting here is starting to crack me up!

The reason that we are in this economic mess in the first place is that there was this sense of entitlement that somehow everyone deserves a house, 6 figure salary, three cars, etc, etc.

While we are talking about entitlements, I feel I’m entitled to, a lovely wife 20-25 years my junior, 3.8 kids, and a herd of illegal aliens to wash my car, change the kids diapers, and water the lawn!  I really deserve all this and everybody else should be paying for it, because it is my right, so get to work for me all you little people.

Now if i don't 'get mine'  I've been screwed by 'da man'!

Fathertime!

[jm21-2]

JM: Exactly right, let them all go bankrupt, re-organize, slash costs and make a product or provide a service which is worth something in the world market. The healthcare industry also. I just had a crown made, teeth cleaning, another filling, xrays, thorough exam with explanation in English, color video "tour" of my teeth.....in Mexico... with a total cost of $340. IN the US, it would cost over $3K. And probably worse service. And definitely no open on the weekends. I think we can be a little more competetive with costs for such services here in the US. And nobody is going to die from hunger. If a Registered Nurse averages a salary of $20K in most other industrialized countries, does it make sense that here they get $80K? What about the $100K garbageman? Can't we be a bit more competitive in the world? If not, then the whole industry will collapse and possibly drag the entire country down with it.

I just had a new filling put in and bought one of those sonicare toothbrushes at the dentists for a touch over $200. Only a few nurses earn $80k, and that's usually an ER nurse with overtime.

[Researcher]

   Most definitely changes need to be made.We will never be able to compete in the global marketplace until it happens.Here are a few suggestions:

    -Get rid of gov. agencies like the EPA and OSHA.The regulations they put on companies only add costs making them less competitive.Allow companies to rape the environment like other countries do in emerging markets.Get rid of all safety standards and don't allow lawsuits for anything.Then if a worker gets hurt they can go and beg in the streets like in other countries.

   -The gov. needs to provide a free public mass transit system so when people are making 1200 per year they wouldn't need to have a car they can't afford anyway.

   -We already have socialized health care so that is done.

    In short, we need to be just like the other emerging market countries to compete.Say goodbye to the middle class.It will be only the dirt poor masses and the few rich, just like in those countries.

   Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

JM: The crown is the big ticket item for me.

I don't know where you live, but here where I am, also when I lived in FL, CA, PA....RN's were making a minimum of $80K if they were experienced and working full time. Even in the nursing homes. Some were making over $100K

[Alabamaboy!]

Researcher: Yeah, mass transit system. That is another pet peeve for me. Why does every household have 3 cars for maybe 2 drivers, then bitch because they can't pay their mortgage? Again the sense of entitlement that somehow we deserve it and people living in the rest of the planet do not. I can just imagine how piggish and wasteful we appear to everyone else.

[no comment]

Seems that anxiety, or even hysteria is contagious.  Folks in California have much to worry about.  The fortified shelters for the impending doom shouldn't be called bomb shelters, because it's not the bomb but rather rioting that is the concern.  Lets refer to them as 'Helter Skelter Shelters.'  They need to be reinforced against earthquakes and OSHA compliant.

Another thing for the Cal guys to worry about is the future captain of the sinking ship.  I just heard an excerpt from the debate between candidates for governor.  Speaking about the illegal immigration issue, Moonbeam pointed a finger at the federal government, spoke about a "path to citizenship" and alluded to immigrants "lurking in the shadows."  They're not lurking in the shadows, they're out in the open. Everyone knows where to find day laborers, and there already is a path to citizenship called legal immigration. That's the way my Peruvian wife & I are doing it.

[no comment]

Mass transit would be a great idea if it weren't just an excuse for contractors and union labor to back up their trucks and shovel in the cash. Boston's Big Dig is already well known, this link is a more recent example of massive cost over runs. http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/4830-governor-christie-holds-tight-for-taxpayers

[Alabamaboy!]

Yep. You are right NC. Unions would completely take advantage of it. But it is time for a new way of handling things now. I am from the "Rust Belt". My dad was a steelworker. Others in the family were in the auto manufacturing plants. What happened to all that industry? Down the tubes! Most factories literally torn down and sold for scrap. And why? Because of the greedy unions. They felt they were entitled to wages and benefit packages equal to what a physician makes, even though their job was basically non skilled and could be done by a robot. So they bitched and bitched, went on strikes, and the companies went bankrupt.

The only ones that survived were the ones who closed down, kicked the Unions out, and re-opened non-union. They also invested in advanced technology instead of luxury retirement plans and such.

So now there are still auto plants in Ohio, Kentucky, etc. But the workers may only make $20-25/hour instead of $40 or more. But at least now they are pretty sure they will continue to have jobs, and that the product they are producing is good. And those people are surviving very well.

Almost every single job here in the US is being overpaid. Not by a little, but by a lot. WE simply cannot compete anymore with most other countries.

The State and Federal government jobs are also wayyy over paid. The benefits alone are outrageous. And we simply cannot support such waste anymore.

[Jeff S]

"For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple - and wrong."

- H.L. Mencken

Salaries are based on productivity. To say everyone in the US is overpaid completely ignores Econ 101. To say everyone in Government is overpaid, is certain, since no one in government is productive, that is, contributes to the GDP, since zero divided by anything is always zero.



From here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=160

[Alabamaboy!]

I went to work in the steel mill one summer for awhile. I was making like $12.50 as a laborer. This was back in 1985 I think. Anyway, I like to do a good job on whatever I was working at. So I was doing whatever they said with energy and gusto. But I was repeatedly reprimanded by the lazy Union guys who had been working there for 15-20 years. Why??? For working too fast and doing too good of a job. They told me it was making them look bad and if I did not listen to them and sit around and be lazy like them, they would get rid of me. So I told them to "shove it". I quit.

Everyone thought I was stupid because I did that. And I could have made a lot of money that summer.

But I traded my little junky car for a junky truck and began knocking on doors to try to get jobs cutting grass. And if someone was charging $20, I would tell them $15. And very soon I had full time work cutting grass and made more money than the guys working in the steel mill and had a good tan to boot!

That was a good summer. That was my first taste at bucking the system, going against conventional wisdom, and it worked out very good and taught me some very nice lessons. I was proud of myself for doing things the hard way having success. That should be the thing that our country should get back to: hard work, be competitive, lower prices, all that.

[Researcher]

Mass transit would be a great idea if it weren't just an excuse for contractors and union labor to back up their trucks and shovel in the cash. Boston's Big Dig is already well known, this link is a more recent example of massive cost over runs. http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/4830-governor-christie-holds-tight-for-taxpayers

   Tax the rich and big companies that are hoarding large amounts of cash, then money is no object.The middle class(future dirt poor) will need every cent to transition into poverty.They can downsize by moving into a 2 or 3 room house/condo just like in third world countries.Then throw in a daily diet of rice and we would be getting closer to being able to compete.


  Researcher

[Alabamaboy!]

We are more productive because of our technological edge. It is not because we are working harder. A friend of mine is a teacher in Las Vegas. It took him 7 years to become an elementary ed teacher because he was not very smart and admits that. He now has a total compensation package approaching $100K with 2-3 months off each year. Now a similar position in another country is going to pay no more than $15-20K. In Colombia maybe $10-12K. Doing exactly the same job. So it is pretty obvious that in a world market he is grossly overpaid.

True, one guy in the Honda plant running a team of robots can do more than a team of guys in UK might putting together a Bentley or something by hand.

The garbage guy in Colombia makes $6K per year and works harder than the guy here who makes $100K and has the technology.

Just some examples

[Alabamaboy!]

Right again Researcher, the stimulus money is stimulating nothing more than the bank accounts of the big businesses and the bonuses of their CEO's. That money is being hoarded and not being used for sheet. I was completely wasted!

[Jeff S]

We are more productive because of our technological edge. It is not because we are working harder. A friend of mine is a teacher in Las Vegas. It took him 7 years to become an elementary ed teacher because he was not very smart and admits that. He now has a total compensation package approaching $100K with 2-3 months off each year. Now a similar position in another country is going to pay no more than $15-20K. In Colombia maybe $10-12K. Doing exactly the same job. So it is pretty obvious that in a world market he is grossly overpaid.

True, one guy in the Honda plant running a team of robots can do more than a team of guys in UK might putting together a Bentley or something by hand.

The garbage guy in Colombia makes $6K per year and works harder than the guy here who makes $100K and has the technology.

Just some examples

My point exactly. Who is underpaid and over paid - 200 Chinese with shovels making $1 a day digging a ditch, or one American with a backhoe making $200 a day?

Answer - It depends on who makes a bigger ditch, once you take away the cost of capital (shovels vs backhoes including operating expenses, wear and tear, depreciation, property tax, etc.)

Are you saying the American is overpaid? I'd say he's underpaid when compared to the Chinese. That's why we have a fabulous interstate highway system here and mostly dirt roads in China.

"Working hard" has absolutely nothing to do with how much someone gets paid. Getting things accomplished does.

They have a saying in Mexico: If working hard makes you rich, all the donkeys would be millionaires.

[Alabamaboy!]

Please apply that logic to the teachers, physicians, therapists, psychologists, ball players, librarians, etc. and tell me how it still holds true.

[Alabamaboy!]

So everyone in the armed forces, government of any kind, government contractors, anyone who receives government money for services rendered, service related positions such as I previously listed, farmers, etc. are grossly overpaid here. And many times provide worse service. Have you ever seen the flight attendants on a Korean Air flight versus the flight attendants on a US Air or Continental flight? Or the airport staff in BAQ vs Miami?

Oh yeah, also quit giving farmers money for not growing things. That is another way to save money. Make them all grow corn to make ethanol, and moonshine....something productive. Farming subsidies are so against the principles that this country was built on that it is amazing that they have the balls to still demand them.

[Alabamaboy!]

More waste?: The 20 border patrol guys standing in a group jacking off on I-8 between AZ and SoCal. At $70-80K per pop of total compensation package. The highway patrol guys flying up and down I-8 pulling people over in the middle of the day on a completely straight road with nobody else around for miles. Not necessary.

What else? All that drug related guys in prison. Let most of them out. Get rid of most of the guards. Cut their "benefits" while in prison. If it currently it cost $22-25K per prisoner per year, then if we reduce the prison populations from almost 2.5 million to only .5 million that would cut costs about $44 gazillion dollars....I cannot even count the zeros.

[Jeff S]

Yes - Government workers, the military, ballplayers, teachers, ICE agents, gardeners, and so on do not contribute to the creation of wealth. The creators of wealth get together and decide that these activities are worth paying someone to do. Their value should be based on what people are willing to pay. That's why ballplayers make so much, because people are willing to spend $50 on a ticket to watch them play and Budweiser is willing to spend a million dollars a minute to advertise on the game. They deserve it if they can draw a crowd. Personally, I couldn't give a rat's behind and would rather watch 10 year old kids play sports, so I don't contribute a single cent to to pro sports, but enough people do to make them multi millionaires, so I don't begrudge them that one iota.

Back when full service car washes were $7, I used to get my car washed every week. Now that they're $15, I don't. It's not worth it to me. I vacuum my car with a shop vac, clean the windows with a rag and Windex, and run it through the $4 automated machine behind the 76 station. Have I screwed a bunch of people who used to work at car washes? No the car wash people did that all on their own because they couldn't figure out how to deliver a service to me at the price I'm willing to pay.

I say privatize the vast majority of Government services - schools, the DMV, post office, public transport, on and on. I could be convinced to draw the line at police, fire and military, but that would be about it.

Nevada pays 1/2 of what California does to keep a prisoner incarcerated - and the prisoner in Nevada has better facilities, health care and safety. The Catholic church educates children for 1/3 the cost as the state of California and the get a better education. FedEx delivers packages for less, faster than the Post Office. Why, because they have to to get and keep customers, so they have to figure out how. Let the market decide. It works. Why have a state employee mowing the lawn of the governor's mansion for $30 an hour, retiring at 55 with full pay and a Cadillac health plan when you can hire a service to do it for you for $20 an hour?

[Alabamaboy!]

Good points Jeff! I'm with you on all that.