Introduction

[motionmagic]

Hello all,
 
I was a member of these forums many years ago (forgot my username) and eventually found and married a woman from Venezuela. We met on an online dating site that was based out of Cali. She was 29 and I was 42 at the time. I fell in love with her, her family and culture. She was the perfect match.
 
I had made a couple of trips to Cali and Bogota before meeting her and was enjoying the process.
 
It was a very good experience for the most part,  with the most difficult being her transition to our culture in the US. With my support she and our step son learned english in record time and she got a job with the state making good money.
 
During those first few years I second guessed myself during the difficult times as she was not handling the stress of everyday life very well and is temperamental. Still, we persevered and have been happy most of these 9 years, or so I thought.
 
In the last few months, she has not been as affectionate as normal, and really just going through the motions as husband and wife. I really did not think there was a big problem until she recently told me that she was in love with another man (Mexican). She said that she still loved me but was "not in love". She claims that sex has not been involved, but to me its still cheating.
 
She said that our love was dead and has been for awhile (a cold bed she said). I was in shock and felf like she stabbed me through the heart. I basically told he that I love her and that I would do what ot took to save our marriage but she is dead set on divorcing. So, I told her I'm not going to beg her and I could not make her love me so if she really felt this way then I need to move on with my life.
 
Let me tell you, this was devastating. It felt like someone died. Lots of what ifs, anger at her, the other man, myself, depression, you name it. Eventually I've come to the point that I can think about the future and enjoy things again. I went through this with my first wife, but not nearly as painful as we both new it was coming and had prepared for it.
 
Although she is ultimate;y at fault here in how she handled this (poor communication and cheating) I see where if I had been more attentive I should have noticed that we were having  problems and stopped this before it got to this point. You HAVE to always work on your marriage and never get too comfortable thinking everything is ok. I'm the logical, technical type and missed the signs of trouble. For you guys out there happily married, don't take it for granted; keep the fire and passion in your marriage.
 
Fortunately we only have the step son who is 18. He was very supportive during all this once he understood how selfish his mother was being. There have been no issues with our assets as she will be depending on him to support her as he should. I wanted to confront him but in reality he is not worth it as no real man would become invoved with another man's wife. My wife is to blame.
 
Anyway, unless things change drastically (I don't expect them to) then I'll be working on getting my life back together and moving on sooner than later. Unfortunately, once you go latina, nothing else will suffice.
 
Thanks for listening,
 
Tim.

[Micky]

Hello all,
 
I was a member of these forums many years ago (forgot my username) and eventually found and married a woman from Venezuela. We met on an online dating site that was based out of Cali. She was 29 and I was 42 at the time. I fell in love with her, her family and culture. She was the perfect match.
 
I had made a couple of trips to Cali and Bogota before meeting her and was enjoying the process.
 
It was a very good experience for the most part,  with the most difficult being her transition to our culture in the US. With my support she and our step son learned english in record time and she got a job with the state making good money.
 
During those first few years I second guessed myself during the difficult times as she was not handling the stress of everyday life very well and is temperamental. Still, we persevered and have been happy most of these 9 years, or so I thought.
 
In the last few months, she has not been as affectionate as normal, and really just going through the motions as husband and wife. I really did not think there was a big problem until she recently told me that she was in love with another man (Mexican). She said that she still loved me but was "not in love". She claims that sex has not been involved, but to me its still cheating.
 
She said that our love was dead and has been for awhile (a cold bed she said). I was in shock and felf like she stabbed me through the heart. I basically told he that I love her and that I would do what ot took to save our marriage but she is dead set on divorcing. So, I told her I'm not going to beg her and I could not make her love me so if she really felt this way then I need to move on with my life.
 
Let me tell you, this was devastating. It felt like someone died. Lots of what ifs, anger at her, the other man, myself, depression, you name it. Eventually I've come to the point that I can think about the future and enjoy things again. I went through this with my first wife, but not nearly as painful as we both new it was coming and had prepared for it.
 
Although she is ultimate;y at fault here in how she handled this (poor communication and cheating) I see where if I had been more attentive I should have noticed that we were having  problems and stopped this before it got to this point. You HAVE to always work on your marriage and never get too comfortable thinking everything is ok. I'm the logical, technical type and missed the signs of trouble. For you guys out there happily married, don't take it for granted; keep the fire and passion in your marriage.
 
Fortunately we only have the step son who is 18. He was very supportive during all this once he understood how selfish his mother was being. There have been no issues with our assets as she will be depending on him to support her as he should. I wanted to confront him but in reality he is not worth it as no real man would become invoved with another man's wife. My wife is to blame.
 
Anyway, unless things change drastically (I don't expect them to) then I'll be working on getting my life back together and moving on sooner than later. Unfortunately, once you go latina, nothing else will suffice.
 
Thanks for listening,
 
Tim.

Tim -

It takes a real man to open up as you have.  Sounds like at least you have gotten to the point of moving on,  that is always the first step.  The best to you going forward.  If you ever end up coming to Med,  I am here to help you.

Micky

[benjio]

Tim,
 
I'm very sorry about your bad experience. As Micky said, it takes a lot of balls to come out and share these intimate details of your life with complete strangers. Sadly your story is one I hear all too often. I have friends that were excellent husbands to their Latina wives, and in the end they just flaked and left, or cheated with other men for no good reason. Some of the women even lied about being physically abused to gain the upperhand in divorce court and with child custody. I wouldn't for a second blame myself if I were you. In the end, if there was a problem, she should have expressed her concerns. Marriage is a commitment made by two parties, and no man is psychic, regardless of the female expectation of us to be. The posts of many married men here would lead one to believe that anytime a foreign woman falls out of love, or changes her mind about being with a man, it's somehow the man's fault. I believe as time passes, one if not all of them will be proven very wrong. Unfortunately the latin culture is one that embraces the live for the moment attitude, and many Latinos will break promises, lie, cheat and even worse to enjoy that moment. This is a risk we all take by choosing to date women from Latin America. The institution of marriage is taken much more seriously there; but removing a woman from that culture and exposing them to the rampant feminism in the U.S. always runs the risk of a woman losing touch with those ideals.
 
Best way to get over it completely is to hop back on the dating train and try again. Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing.   

[motionmagic]

Thanks for the comments.
 
Yes, I will be getting back into the dating game 10 years older and wiser. Unfortunately, we are always taking risks when starting relationships. The only thing we can do it be as smart about it as possible.
 
It is very true that she thought that I was psychic, but we must never set our marriages on cruise control. That is the big lesson for me at least, a huge wakeup call.
 
I believe that marriage is a life long commitment and when things start going south we have to do what it takes within reason to make it work. So many these days are so self centered and take the easy way out. If she continues with the new relationship with the guy it will not end well. He cheated on his ex as well. She is living in a fantasy world.
 
Regardless, I let it happen because I became too complacent. I'm not blaming myself, but as the husband, we have to remain diligent.
 
I'm just going to have to hit the reset button and start over. I'm a hopeless romantic and proud of it. If I head down south again I'm going to use an agency this time, like Jamie's II, and enjoy the ride.
 
Tim.
 

[mambocowboy]

Tim,
 
I'm very sorry about your bad experience. As Micky said, it takes a lot of balls to come out and share these intimate details of your life with complete strangers. Sadly your story is one I hear all too often. I have friends that were excellent husbands to their Latina wives, and in the end they just flaked and left, or cheated with other men for no good reason. Some of the women even lied about being physically abused to gain the upperhand in divorce court and with child custody. I wouldn't for a second blame myself if I were you. In the end, if there was a problem, she should have expressed her concerns. Marriage is a commitment made by two parties, and no man is psychic, regardless of the female expectation of us to be. The posts of many married men here would lead one to believe that anytime a foreign woman falls out of love, or changes her mind about being with a man, it's somehow the man's fault. I believe as time passes, one if not all of them will be proven very wrong. Unfortunately the latin culture is one that embraces the live for the moment attitude, and many Latinos will break promises, lie, cheat and even worse to enjoy that moment. This is a risk we all take by choosing to date women from Latin America. The institution of marriage is taken much more seriously there; but removing a woman from that culture and exposing them to the rampant feminism in the U.S. always runs the risk of a woman losing touch with those ideals.
 
Best way to get over it completely is to hop back on the dating train and try again. Best of luck to you and thanks for sharing.   

re: the influences in this country, I'm actually more worried about my wife's Barranquillera friends who are also here than the gringas (maybe because my wife's English is still pretty weak).... None of them live in our city, but all 5 are from the same neighborhood as her and married to American guys. They've more or less reprimanded her for letting herself get pregnant within 6 months after arriving here, telling her she should have "enjoyed herself," by traveling, getting to know me better, working on her career.... My wife says there are plenty who come here with the intention of having their husband support them through school, and then bail...Fortunately my wife is very open with me about these things, but I feel sorry for the guys who will be left hanging, and I'm glad I'm married to her and not to her friends...On the other hand, I'm sure some women come here with the best of intentions and simply lose their compass. I think for all of these women coming over here the adjustment is tougher than they anticipate. Leaving behind everything familiar is tough and takes courage. As for Tim's situation, I'm glad Tim's got the balls to try again...

[whitey]

Unfortunately, once you go latina, nothing else will suffice.

Tim, sorry to hear about your marriage ending.  Apart from the fact that my ex is Canadian and wasn't cheating, my first marriage ended much the same way ... she simply "fell out of love" ... and once that happens, the egg is broken and can never be the same again.

I'm very happily married to my Colombian wife now for 2 years, and for sure, once you go latina you can never go back.  If things should ever change between us, I doubt it would be a gringo-latina thing ... it would be a man-woman thing.  Having been divorced once, I try not to take anything for granted and am grateful every day for the great relationship we have ... no matter what might happen in the future ...


Best of luck in your search ...

[Researcher]

   Sorry to hear Tim but it sounds like you are handling it well. At the end of the day a marriage is just that: a marriage, no matter what country the people are from.

[Micky]

MC -

Htown and I had a conversation,  while he was here in Med,  about the women that get married and go to the States.  One,  there certainly are SOME women that go to the States that are very unprepared and ill equipted for the reality that lies ahead.  Two,  there are SOME women that are players and have a 'plan A' in line out of the gate,  to fleece the guy and split at first opportunity.  Three,  as you mentioned,  women that go with good intention but lose their way after they are there.  I am only guessing,  but the bulk would have to fall into One and Three.  I do not think that the number of out and out players,  that take it that far,  is that great.

Micky

[robert angel]

Tim,
 
While your story is sad and having been through a somewhat similar situation,  namely a decade plus long previous marriage, the way love was lost and then divorce--I've shared the pre, present and post details extensively, as well as why my current marriage is so much better and how we try to keep it fresh. No one can 100% understand and relate, but a lot of us have felt similar pain. Very few share it with people who might benefit from it and you relate it very well.
 
So with all due respect, I think I can relate to an extent. Of course we're all individuals. But I want to thank you for being brave enough to post something that if taken to heart and mind, can help others. I really think it will and I wish others were as brave as you.
 
We all tend to want talk about the good things here and not talk about the bad and the why and how it came to be. Most guys who get divorced probably never come back here unless--until after they're close to being engaged, are searching again, or are already married. Not a very introspective bunch overall.
 
There are of course some members here who tend to tag team--guys of curiously similar mindsets, who are 90%+ into personal attacks--they love to point out what they think is bad in others and it's usually the same old crap repeated, not constructive in the slightest and typically not adding anything substantial from their own personal experience--things that might really help, rather than antagonize. They might hide behind their wive's skirts and call it protecting their privacy when it's more likely there are other things too embarassing for them to reveal, things that have nothing to do with besmirching their marital privacy. Sobering posts like yours are far more productive and all too rare here.

There's a been some (mostly inane in my opinion) talk about how 'luck' has nothing to do with finding a good wife and maintaining a successful marriage.

Life is full of 'chance' and nothing is fixed in place as far as the future holds. I have a co worker/friend wo is getting divorced after 46 years of marriage, over 40 of them wonderful.

People do stop loving people, they drift apart, age differences can eventually become issues, temptations come along--many, many chance variables can and will occur over time.

You might WORK to make money to fly somewhere and use the money and turn on the charm to actually meet women you met on line first or maybe in person first, but who you chance to meet and how things play out are just that: chance. How you play (or work) the hand of cards you are dealt, involves work and initiative, but no one really knows what the cards that you'll get will turn out or how they'll hold for now or later.
 
Blow hard guys who act like they have brass balls the size of bowling balls, and we have a number of them here, may say its all hard work as if they're something akin to being masters of their own universes, when in reality they're more likely legends in their own minds, flawed (as we're all flawed to some extent) and full of bluster and bravado, dispensing their (I try and be nice wording it) 'advice and guidance', while rarely giving any personal advice or examples--guys who are critically all over other guys in a sophomoric manner, twisting the spelling of names of members here, using giant bold red print, in lame attempts to ridicule members and moderators alike. Ironically, they dance around like pansies when asked a direct question and are masters of avoidance:

 'Eweee, I don't have to answer THAT--but maybe if you're nice to me, I might consider answering later....' Imagine  a woman comparing actor Phillip Seymor Hoffman, in his fruitiest, whiney voice--as when when he played the late Truman Capote on film --imagine a prospective bride, saying that Seymour reminded her of her prospective husband. If memory serves, the poor girl that ended up with that guy, that poseur--err 'poster' who frequents here, telling him (as he explained himself) just how much he reminded her of Hoffman (in his chubbier days,) in terms of looks, etc. That explains a lot, in a way--I'm sure she had it 'spot on' too. The rare times he's not taking pot shots at people, his posts are a sentence or two at most, giving his own highly regarded approval of something a friend of his said here.

But back to 'luck' and whether it exists and indeed is a factor or whether it is irrevelent and instead only work is a determinant in whether or not you meet the 'right lady' and make it work long term, I say that if there wasn't any element of chance of fortunes going up and down, of risk taking--life would be a flat line--that if there were no 'good luck' there'd be no 'bad luck', Just as most things that are very good in life are only achieved actually only begottten by taking risk. Good luck comes along like opportunity and if you use it to your advantage, you can work and make something of it. You can take advantage, seize the opportunity, ignore it or squander it. Does the hunter go into the wild assuming that hard work will assure him that he'll bring home game? Of course not--he hopes that good fortune will present him with a target, that his aim will be true, his powder dry and that the elements of weather will allow him to bring it on home.

It's a no brainer that that type  of person who's all about attacks, belittling others, showing virtually no respect and not offering help based on cited, real, factual, explainable events is usually not quite right mentally and if you can bear to follow the repetitive nature of their postings, it's rather apparent that they're insecure, yet overly sensitive people, lamely compensating for it by acting like they know better, passing judgement on others while harshly accusing others of doing just that. They often pretend (and insanely believe) that all good things are due to their own doing. My, my--what 'manly men!They act like lords and moral arbitrators, yet are the first to accuse others of trying to act as such--accusing others of wanting to moderate, as they repeatedly censure members themselves. They can dish 24X7, but they can't take the same.
 
Tim, people like that usually find like minded individuals to act the same way, backing their 'agenda' and they rarely contribute any nuts and bolts details as to how things work on a day to day basis, or how and why they have the issues we all eventually have in relationships. Instead of you creating fires and fanning them, you're trying, by citing real examples, to make others aware of the dangers and pitfalls and how nothing's forever.
 
I am pretty sure that after you get a bit more over this, that your mind and body will put you into a good place, a place where your chances of getting 'lucky' will be much better and you'll know how to WORK that luck, differentiating tin from silver, gold from gold plated --long term prospects versus 'flings', women with long term prospects versus hiden agendas and that things will get a lot better for you! Hope you come back---a lot of us can learn from your experience~!
 
You go man!

[vikingo]

Sorry to hear about your plight, Tim and thank you for sharing it with us. It may bring some of us back down to earth, so we can be more observant in our relationships. I am totally convinced she has been intimate with the Mexican in one way or an other. She has had a relationship with this man behind your back for some time and she has been dishonest with you, no matter how you slice it, they always say that nothing happened so they don't look like a slut, don't believe a word she says anymore. With modern means of communication like MSN and Skype, or a second e-mail account she uses with her friends and kept secret from you and you think everything is honky dorey because she gave you her password, but you didn't know about her second account. It get's easier every year for a women to cheat, especially if she has been taken out of her environment away from family and friends. I can imagine the newness in the United States or Europe wears off fast for a Latina and the attention of an other Latino, especially if he is in a better position than you are, brings a welcome change into her monotomy.
If you should go with Jamie, remember his women are from Barranquilla and if you hail from a colder place you will be mighty uncomfortable there. I personally feel he is a bit on the expensive side and the girls aren't really that outstanding except for the teens and the twenty somethings. There are some awsome looking chicks in Barranquilla though, I live here and see em every day. But you'll find them in Bogotá too, not to forget Cali. I would stay away from Medellín. It is very heavily touristed and most women who would be interested in a foreigner there have been 'gringonized' already. It would be to your advantage for your new bride to have your child once you trust her, that will secure a stronger bond with you, especially if she is without child. Look for a woman a lot younger and more attractive than your ex, then send her a picture of the two of you happily smiling, thanking her to have given you the oportunity to find a good woman. It will ruin her day, believe me and she deserves it.

[vikingo]

Forgot to mention, I don't think Tim's wife was a player or had a Plan B, because of their nine year relationship. She just changed or she started feeling adventurous, who knows what got into her. Usually when a woman strays an oportunitity presented itself, but how do you prevent that, you can't keep her locked up in the house. Hopefully Tim is working with a lawyer on this, I wouldn't trust what ever she says now, further along she might claim half his assets or send her son to university for which Tim would have to pay until the kid graduates if he adopted her son. Let's see what her Mexican BF advises her to do.

[robert angel]

Most of us know it already, but yes it really is true that the longer you take and keep a beautiful, exotic looking lady out of her culture--out of her nation, the higher the probability that bad things can happen. Typically there are small signs, things that grow more signficant over time until it's too far gone. Keeping her' preggars and barefoot' won't save your marriage either.

I knew my wife and her family for four years before I asked her to marry me. I knew and still feel, that she's stable and well grounded. But that doesn't mean she hasn't changed a good bit since living 'American style' for over 7 years now. She's got dual citizenship and knows she really doesn't essentially need me or my income to survive--to 'make it' out there in the 'real world USA style'. She'll buy things now like shoes, clothing and such that while aren't at all extravagant by middle class USA standards, would be luxuries back home. But in her first years here, things that she'd buy now without too much thought, she'd had said to herself something like: 'The price of those shoes could buy 80 kilos of rice', or 'The price of that Coach purse would pay for a semester's tuition back home'. We go out to eat and I eye the sirloin steak and comment how the prime rib looks nice, but is pricey, She'll say "Honey--go ahead and get the prime rib--we work hard and you deserve it". So to an extent, her thinking has changed, but it could be a whole lot worse.

Back home she was always considered 'pretty' and even won some contests they basically had to force her into, but she always felt more like a plain Jane--even a bit like an ugly duckling. She didn't really 'stand out' in their village and she never tried to--her family didn't go in for fancy clothes or any make up. Her dad was village captain (mayor) and she went to great pains not to act like she was any better or any worse than the next kid or family--not that they had any money to flash. Her family stressed mindsets like 'family' and 'village' rather than 'me, me, me' When she went to the city for University, she really felt almost ugly and a bit guilty knowing she had 'a chance' to get an education and maybe a brighter future for her family, while so many other girls weren't as fortunate.

Now she's in the USA, working in a very public place, taking more classes at the local university and the guys DO notice the exotic babe who looks half her actual age, with the curves, the perfect nails and hair you can see your reflction in. She's had to embarassingly (to her) tell guys hitting on her to look at her wedding ring, only to have them say 'Oh--that's not a problem--just don't tell your husband".

It's not too common for guys to admit things aren't always wonderful in their marriage here on P-L., but believe it or not, occasionally my wife and I fight --really 'argue' is a better term and we say somethings we regret later. I'm no paragon of virtue and sometimes when I tell my wife she's 'losing her way' a bit, she'll diffuse the tension by saying (usually with a little humoer and a smirk: ""Oh--don't forget----I'm an Amrican BEEETCCHH now and all the bad American things I know I learned from and because of YOU!""

She's well aware that her 'stock value' has gone way up in 'USA society' compared to back home and that if she wanted to leave me, she could very likely find a nice, younger, more handsome, wealthy church going kind of guy and that she wouldn't have to work another day in her life and STILL be able to send money back home to her beloved family, She'd have the nice white Accord coupe she's wanted but rarely mentions (and deserves) instead of her banged up old Camry and she wouldn't be paying as close attention to store sales when she needs something. But she's not one to complain, but she wll on rare occasions ask (more like tell) me" Am I good to you?--'Yes--I am sooo good to you! --"Am I good to YOUR sons??"--even--and this IS USA style: "Do you think you can just go out and find another woman like me??" I mean like Yowser--she'd NEVER have dreamed of saying that in our first few years.....
Oh---the influences of life in the USA......
 
But for here and now---for 2012 anyway--we're holding pretty good. A few days ago she even said to me: "Honey, I was driving home from work today and I saw people waiting out in the cold, windy rain at the bus stop and it occured to me how I never thank you for getting me a car--even before I knew how to drive you were looking out for me--thank you and I love you so much".

So yea--she's changed a lot--had to 'grow up' all over again in a USA way kind of style. She doesn't consider herself a 'hottie' as she calls women (especially Filipinas) who know how to dress sexy, flirt with their eyes and move provocatively, but although she says she's not a 'hottie' with a sigh, we both know she doesn't want to be seen that way in public, thank goodness.

It costs big bucks, unfortunately, but if you find your wife 'losing her way' --going American in a bad way and her priorities changing too much, try if at all possible to send her home for a month or so.

Things really don't get too out of wack with us up to this point, but I can really, really tell the difference in my wife after she returns from a long trip home, especially after her saved up spending money's dwindled and things like taking the family shopping, to movies, out to eat and such aren't as easy. The days where they struggled a bit financially, where their hopes and prayers revolved around necessities and when rather than praying for things, they prayed giving thanks for what little they did have, all come back, reinforcing her moral fiber.

She gets home and it's like a hot damn honeymoon all over again.

Don't get me wrong--we don't have it perfect and I have ways that tick her off,as regular as a clock We're not rich, but we're not hungry. We consider ourselves lucky--some might say fortunate and part of what makes things work for here and now anyway (nothing's forever boys--cept death, taxes and lawyers) is that we sometimes give ourselves reality checks and instead of focusing on nice stuff--nice things OTHERS have, we try and reel it in and focus on being thankful for what we do have.
 
Hope you all had a a happy Thanksgiving--we're all lucky right now, believe it or not--if you're reading this, you're enjoying the gift of life--for all of us, this IS our 'present' and tomorrow offers us no certain, same promise.
 

[bcc_1_2]

I mainly want to comment on the OP. But I must encourage Robert to get his thoughts in order a bit. Man I try to read your posts when they show up in a thread but they get so long. I think you could probably make your points better in about 1/2 the text man. Just being honest... I think I am probably not the only one that browses your post and keeps scrolling down. Not trying to insult.
What happened to Tim could happen to anyone... and I don't think I am immune to it either. I agree with Tim in that I am not a big fan of women jumping on to the next guy before they end their current relationship. But what happened to make his wife want to terminate their relationship we have no idea as that is her side of the story.
I will note that (and my wife would agree) that she has evolved a lot and grown more worldly since relocating to the USA. We all grow and evolve as people and as our surroundings change we adapt.
I'm hoping that if things turn into a trainwreck that I can keep it together and move on. I encourage Tim to do just that and go find his next latina.

[V_Man]

Tim thank you so much for posting this. It is a good reminder for us all.
What gets to me is that so many women think they they do not have a responsibility to keep things alive after xx years of marriage.

Also Robert, thank you for your post. These are the things that actually matter. Not the drivel the usual suspects get into.

[benjio]

Thanks for the story Tim, it seems like you figured out what you could have done better and maybe it is just time to apply that knowledge to the next relationship.  I agree with your thoughts about passion/fire...for the 4 plus years i've known my wife we have had quite a few disagreements especially early on and the arguments were breathtaking, but it seems we both liked that in some strange way. For the past year or so there has been a realization that we are committed to each other.  Hopefully in 5 or 10 years we will still feel the same way, but alas you can only truly control yourself and your story is an example of that.
Good hunting! 
Fathertime!   

FT, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've ever read anything you've wrote accepting the fact that a man can be a perfectly good husband, doing everything in his power to keep a marriage successful and healthy, and a woman can still decide to cheat or leave. It's almost as if some subconscious fear of this happening to you makes you refuse to realize it's a possibility. Motionmagic recognized some of his faults and admits to them, and of course you pointed this out. But as usual, you said nothing about his ex-wife attributing to the ultimate demise of the marriage by cheating and eventually leaving. I seriously doubt if the same thing happened to you, you'd be equally forgiving of your wife.
 
 
 

Tim thank you so much for posting this. It is a good reminder for us all.
What gets to me is that so many women think they they do not have a responsibility to keep things alive after xx years of marriage.

Also Robert, thank you for your post. These are the things that actually matter. Not the drivel the usual suspects get into.

V_Man...I agree wholeheartedly. Several married men constantly imply that it is 100% the husband's responsibility to nuture a marriage, and when a woman cheats or leaves, it has to have been his lack of doing so. As if no woman cheats on a good man. As if it's impossible to fall out of love even when a man is doing everything he can to keep the relationship fresh and lively. It's like my friend told me the other day: In the United States, when a man cheats, he's a dog. When a woman cheats, he wasn't taking care of his business at home. You'd think with men that married foreign women this type of paradigm wouldn't exist. But it seems like the popular opinion amongst our friends dragging around the old imported ball and chain. At this point I'm convinced these men were not, are not, and will never be interested in having an equal as a significant other. They don't view American Women with successful careers as a threat because they aren't family oriented, but because they have comparable earning potential. They didn't go to Asia, or Russia, or Latin America to wife hunt because they find those women more attractive, but because they were completely unable to date women that are equally attractive in the U.S. I think they place the entire weight of the responsibility of maintaining the marriage on their shoulders because their wives are inable to do more than sit at home, cook, clean, watch soaps and peck on the computer.

[htown]

I would stay away from Medellín.

Hey man, me and Micky are planning on starting up a gringo dating service in Medellin.  You're screwing up our business.

[fathertime]

FT, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've ever read anything you've wrote accepting the fact that a man can be a perfectly good husband, doing everything in his power to keep a marriage successful and healthy, and a woman can still decide to cheat or leave. It's almost as if some subconscious fear of this happening to you makes you refuse to realize it's a possibility. Motionmagic recognized some of his faults and admits to them, and of course you pointed this out. But as usual, you said nothing about his ex-wife attributing to the ultimate demise of the marriage by cheating and eventually leaving. I seriously doubt if the same thing happened to you, you'd be equally forgiving of your wife.
 

I don't believe that very many woman will leave a man spontaneously (In most cases).  It is a given that this CAN happen.  No I did not comment on the comments about the wife, because they are conclusions a jilted husband has made and I know how those type of  comments sometimes go, a big he said/she said. I think it is more productive for me to comment on what the OP could do moving forward, rather than start pointing fingers at an évil wife' or whatever.  I'll leave it to others (like yourself) to reliably commiserate with all the finger pointing. 


Fathertime!   

[robert angel]

I mainly want to comment on the OP. But I must encourage Robert to get his thoughts in order a bit. Man I try to read your posts when they show up in a thread but they get so long. I think you could probably make your points better in about 1/2 the text man. Just being honest... I think I am probably not the only one that browses your post and keeps scrolling down. Not trying to insult.

Bcc, No problem---point well taken. I just get 'on a roll' hammering stuff out freestyle and veerring left n right. Funny thing is, I tell my sons: 'Engage  gears in brain before opening mouth', I should edit and/or just break things into separate posts, I might even be closing in on Ray's record total of posts if I did single paragraph posts and cut and pasted cartoons!!
But again, no problemo--lemme know--I can take it w/o insult--just remember to look under your car before you start it--LOL.
 
 

[mambocowboy]

Benjio, i agree with your points about both parties  needing to shoulder the responsibility. However, for those of us who bring over a colombiana who has never driven a car before and is learning English, naturally she is going to  be "dependent" on us for awhile and  we actually have to shoulder quite a bit of responsibility in helping her adapt...as for whether we can date equally attractive women here, for me it is a no brainer.

[mambocowboy]

Meant to add, as a 40 year old it was easier to find a woman of child bearing age over there who actually wanted children. Over here it was indeed more difficult dating  younger women. Gringas prefer younger men or closer in age..

[robert angel]

First of all, there are no absolutes on spousal partners being faithful or unfaithful, regardless of their culture, family upbringing etc.

That said, I think if you marry a babe half your age, if she was raised in a culture where cheating on boyfriends and husbands is not uncommon and if she's sold her body--been paid for sex or for really nice things, rent, etc--each one of these things increases the chances that especially when things get rough and there's distance between you mentally and geographically, the chances of her having an extra marital affair are greater. Not a 'for sure' inevitable occurance, but higher risk down the line, I think.

Once a woman's sold her body--given it up for sex, it changes their mindset about their body image and about sexuality in general. It becomes a salable 'commodity'. Knowing how they can 'shake that money maker', never fully fades away. They might move away from it and even become the 'good wife', but them knowing 'what they got' and how in a pinch for money or even just for a thrill,  they know they can always fall back on it. It never really goes away.

I feel bad for many of these women, because in many cases, such a lifestyle is the only thing that puts decent food on the table and clothes on their backs. It's easy to be judgemental. Maybe I'm insecure, but if I married a prepago--you guys must have a dozen various names for it---I'd occasionally find myself worrying that her going back, even if just for a bit, if not for the money, but for the vicarious thrill, would just be like a time bomb that might go off again, or a cancer in remission, something that could come back and tear things up pretty bad.

 Tigers don't really change their stripes and if they do get them dyed, inevitably the same old ways and colors come back.

[benjio]

I don't believe that very many woman will leave a man spontaneously (In most cases).  It is a given that this CAN happen.  No I did not comment on the comments about the wife, because they are conclusions a jilted husband has made and I know how those type of  comments sometimes go, a big he said/she said. I think it is more productive for me to comment on what the OP could do moving forward, rather than start pointing fingers at an évil wife' or whatever.  I'll leave it to others (like yourself) to reliably commiserate with all the finger pointing. 


Fathertime!

The word "spontaneously" implies I'm speaking of something that happens all of a sudden. That's not what I meant, nor is it the case when this usually happens. I'm speaking of a circumstance where a woman's emotions, ideals, and commitments all fundamentally change over time...something that happens VERY often. No woman or man is the same person at 18 that they are at 30. Life changes us all with time, transforming the way we think and the way we feel about people close to us. Most girls adore their fathers when they're toddlers, hate them when they are teenagers, then gain a passionate appreciation for them again when they get older. These phases are common even when a man is a devoted, loving father to his daughter. They are comparable to what can happen to a woman between the ages of 18 and 30...especially when she is taken out of the environment that has molded her up until that age. This is a problem with foreign marriages because they inherently bring the variables of age difference and dating eligibility. So I'll give you a circumstance I know of personally, and of course you'll have some BS rebuttable, peppered with hints of undercutting personal shots because you obviously have a very hard time supporting any argument without attacking someone personally. I will however write the following anyway, as anyone with intelligence can see through your bull[snip] clouds of smoke. I'm in no way suggesting this happens more often than not, but my goal is to make you realize it's 100% possible and common enough for any gringo to worry about.
 
After 6 visits inside of a year (every two months), a 40 year old man marries a beautiful 20 year old girl from any 3rd world country in the world. She's genuinely in love with him, has an adamant appreciation for his wisdom, and sees him as "a catch" considering her options in terms of men in the country she grew up in. She moves to the United States and he wants her to take advantage of everything she wouldnt' have had access to back home. He buys her English Language programs for their PC at home and insist that she speaks English with him. She learns basic English quickly because of his insistence, and begins the process of trying to enroll at the local community college for ESL Classes. He begins teaching her to drive. He is a very devoted husband even with his busy work schedule. He buys her flowers at least once a week and takes her out on most weekends. He shares the family chores with her, cooking some nights and helping her with house cleaning with he's not working. He signs up for salsa class because he knows she loves to dance and he doesn't know how. He flies back to her home country with her at least twice a year to visit her family, and financially helps them as much as he can without making them completely dependent on him.
 
She makes friends at the college, and although he is hesitant, he permits her to have a personal life. She joins an English Second Language Discussion group to hone her English skills even further. He buys her a car so she's not totally dependent on him for transportation. Another young man from the discussion group that's her age and from her country begins romantically pursuing her. The younger man is very handsome, comes from a rich family and is only in the U.S. to study English. She is unreceptive at first, thinking to herself she'd never cheat on her husband; but she doesn't tell him about it because she enjoys the life the group gives her outside of the home. The group meets at restaurants, zoos, and parks, etc. using social activities to familiarize its members with the English Language. The young man from the group is very persistent. He buys her gifts (she never accepts). He tells her he is in love with her. He does everything in his power to steal her from her husband. Her husband has not changed. He still treats her like a princess, and continues to give her more freedom as she becomes more accustomed to life in the U.S.
 
During one night while at a restaurant with the discussion group, she has a little too much to drink and the young man forces a kiss on her. She leaves immediately, feeling guilty about having kissed another man, but also realizing she is also beginning to have feelings for him. Her husband has to go out of town for business for a week. The other younger man overhears her telling another group member about this. He somehow obtains her address and comes over everyday bringing her flowers and begging her to leave her husband. She refuses, telling him to leave and threatens to call the police. But again, his persistence is beginning to slowly wear her defense down. She finally tells her husband about the younger man because she fears neighbors saw him coming to the house the previous week. Her husband forbids her from going to the group again. She agrees that it's not a good idea to return. The younger guy somehow gets her number and starts calling her when her husband is at work, constantly proclaiming how much he misses her and how he'll die if he doesn't see her. She hangs up the first hundred times, but begins to listen to him for a few seconds after a while. Then for a few minutes. Then for hours.
 
She still communicates with women from the group via telephone. They tell her how sad the younger man has been since she left. They begin to give her the idea that she would be happier with the younger man. They mention she could go back home with him if they were together and be with her family. They make her realize how much better off she could be with him because of his family's money. They tell her that soon her husband will be an old man, and she'll still be a young woman just beginning her life. After months of pressure from her friends, which the young man is using to communicate with her, she agrees to meet with the group again behind her husband's back while he's out of town. She again has too much to drink, and her emotions and the moment get the best of her. She sleep with the young man that night. Three weeks later she finds out she's pregnant. Upon telling her husband, he is estatic. But she eventually admits to him that the child might not be his. He is devastated. He can't understand what went wrong. He constantly asks himself "why?" After a lot of communication he decides if the baby is his, he will forgive her and they will try to move forward. She has the child and it's not her husband's.
 
She finds out how to file for divorce and moves out. Even though he initially suggested that he would stay with her only if the baby was his, he now tells her he still loves her and wants to stay married. She eventually tells him that deep down she didn't want the child to be his. After three years of marriage they get a divorce. His ex-wife never returns to her home country, but she does marry the younger man from the discussion group.
 
So tell me FT, what did this man do wrong? I would certainly like to hear your thoughts so I can share them with him. Should he have used your method of not allowing your wife to have a life? Is that what it takes? Let me know so I know how to be as happy as you when I find someone.

[vikingo]

Htown, if you are serious about starting a dating service in Medellín I suggest you specialize in professional women, who actually finished their education (many never did) and have a degree, women who can support themselfes. And then you match them with the appropriate client, someone with a 4 year college degree or better.
Unfortunately Medellín has become the prefered destination of sex mongers which invade the city, sometimes by a full plane load. Many gringos line up women on the Cupid sites, telling the women they are serious about them but are using them for free sex and disappear. There is a number of women who are looking for a green card, but the number is much greater for women who are looking for economic help, such as women above 40 who have trouble finding work and tons of single mothers. Their dream is to get a monthly support payment by Western Union from their gringo
'boyfriend' who visits her occasionally while she entertains him by Skype and webcam in the meantime. Now the have the best of both worlds, they stay close to mom and their culture and the economic problems are a thing of the past.

[htown]

Htown, if you are serious about starting a dating service in Medellín I suggest you specialize in professional women, who actually finished their education (many never did) and have a degree, women who can support themselfes. And then you match them with the appropriate client, someone with a 4 year college degree or better.
Unfortunately Medellín has become the prefered destination of sex mongers which invade the city, sometimes by a full plane load. Many gringos line up women on the Cupid sites, telling the women they are serious about them but are using them for free sex and disappear. There is a number of women who are looking for a green card, but the number is much greater for women who are looking for economic help, such as women above 40 who have trouble finding work and tons of single mothers. Their dream is to get a monthly support payment by Western Union from their gringo
'boyfriend' who visits her occasionally while she entertains him by Skype and webcam in the meantime. Now the have the best of both worlds, they stay close to mom and their culture and the economic problems are a thing of the past.

I'll just place an ad in the newspaper saying we're looking for chicks to meet up with some gringos and set up one of those speed-dating events.  We'll only have one rule, 1 gringo per chick.  If I catch one of them hooking up with multiple gringos then I'll just run her off.  Or if I catch her in any of Zon's pornos she'll be dismissed also.  Mickey will be head of security.

[mambocowboy]

The word "spontaneously" implies I'm speaking of something that happens all of a sudden. That's not what I meant, nor is it the case when this usually happens. I'm speaking of a circumstance where a woman's emotions, ideals, and commitments all fundamentally change over time...something that happens VERY often. No woman or man is the same person at 18 that they are at 30. Life changes us all with time, transforming the way we think and the way we feel about people close to us. Most girls adore their fathers when they're toddlers, hate them when they are teenagers, then gain a passionate appreciation for them again when they get older. These phases are common even when a man is a devoted, loving father to his daughter. They are comparable to what can happen to a woman between the ages of 18 and 30...especially when she is taken out of the environment that has molded her up until that age. This is a problem with foreign marriages because they inherently bring the variables of age difference and dating eligibility. So I'll give you a circumstance I know of personally, and of course you'll have some BS rebuttable, peppered with hints of undercutting personal shots because you obviously have a very hard time supporting any argument without attacking someone personally. I will however write the following anyway, as anyone with intelligence can see through your bull[snip] clouds of smoke. I'm in no way suggesting this happens more often than not, but my goal is to make you realize it's 100% possible and common enough for any gringo to worry about.
 
After 6 visits inside of a year (every two months), a 40 year old man marries a beautiful 20 year old girl from any 3rd world country in the world. She's genuinely in love with him, has an adamant appreciation for his wisdom, and sees him as "a catch" considering her options in terms of men in the country she grew up in. She moves to the United States and he wants her to take advantage of everything she wouldnt' have had access to back home. He buys her English Language programs for their PC at home and insist that she speaks English with him. She learns basic English quickly because of his insistence, and begins the process of trying to enroll at the local community college for ESL Classes. He begins teaching her to drive. He is a very devoted husband even with his busy work schedule. He buys her flowers at least once a week and takes her out on most weekends. He shares the family chores with her, cooking some nights and helping her with house cleaning with he's not working. He signs up for salsa class because he knows she loves to dance and he doesn't know how. He flies back to her home country with her at least twice a year to visit her family, and financially helps them as much as he can without making them completely dependent on him.
 
She makes friends at the college, and although he is hesitant, he permits her to have a personal life. She joins an English Second Language Discussion group to hone her English skills even further. He buys her a car so she's not totally dependent on him for transportation. Another young man from the discussion group that's her age and from her country begins romantically pursuing her. The younger man is very handsome, comes from a rich family and is only in the U.S. to study English. She is unreceptive at first, thinking to herself she'd never cheat on her husband; but she doesn't tell him about it because she enjoys the life the group gives her outside of the home. The group meets at restaurants, zoos, and parks, etc. using social activities to familiarize its members with the English Language. The young man from the group is very persistent. He buys her gifts (she never accepts). He tells her he is in love with her. He does everything in his power to steal her from her husband. Her husband has not changed. He still treats her like a princess, and continues to give her more freedom as she becomes more accustomed to life in the U.S.
 
During one night while at a restaurant with the discussion group, she has a little too much to drink and the young man forces a kiss on her. She leaves immediately, feeling guilty about having kissed another man, but also realizing she is also beginning to have feelings for him. Her husband has to go out of town for business for a week. The other younger man overhears her telling another group member about this. He somehow obtains her address and comes over everyday bringing her flowers and begging her to leave her husband. She refuses, telling him to leave and threatens to call the police. But again, his persistence is beginning to slowly wear her defense down. She finally tells her husband about the younger man because she fears neighbors saw him coming to the house the previous week. Her husband forbids her from going to the group again. She agrees that it's not a good idea to return. The younger guy somehow gets her number and starts calling her when her husband is at work, constantly proclaiming how much he misses her and how he'll die if he doesn't see her. She hangs up the first hundred times, but begins to listen to him for a few seconds after a while. Then for a few minutes. Then for hours.
 
She still communicates with women from the group via telephone. They tell her how sad the younger man has been since she left. They begin to give her the idea that she would be happier with the younger man. They mention she could go back home with him if they were together and be with her family. They make her realize how much better off she could be with him because of his family's money. They tell her that soon her husband will be an old man, and she'll still be a young woman just beginning her life. After months of pressure from her friends, which the young man is using to communicate with her, she agrees to meet with the group again behind her husband's back while he's out of town. She again has too much to drink, and her emotions and the moment get the best of her. She sleep with the young man that night. Three weeks later she finds out she's pregnant. Upon telling her husband, he is estatic. But she eventually admits to him that the child might not be his. He is devastated. He can't understand what went wrong. He constantly asks himself "why?" After a lot of communication he decides if the baby is his, he will forgive her and they will try to move forward. She has the child and it's not her husband's.
 
She finds out how to file for divorce and moves out. Even though he initially suggested that he would stay with her only if the baby was his, he now tells her he still loves her and wants to stay married. She eventually tells him that deep down she didn't want the child to be his. After three years of marriage they get a divorce. His ex-wife never returns to her home country, but she does marry the younger man from the discussion group.
 
So tell me FT, what did this man do wrong? I would certainly like to hear your thoughts so I can share them with him. Should he have used your method of not allowing your wife to have a life? Is that what it takes? Let me know so I know how to be as happy as you when I find someone.

Benjio, your example was a good one. My wife too takes English classes and the men in her class, some from Africa, some from Iraq, many from Mexico, are very brazen with her, according to my wife. I tend to agree with you that a man can seemingly do "everything right," and still lose his wife/marriage. However, "doing everything right," by gringo standards is different than "doing everything right" by Colombian standards. I would argue that if you aren't at least a bit controlling with your Colombiana, you are asking for trouble. In their culture, if a man allows his woman to roam freely, he is showing that either a) he doesn't care if she strays and therefore is partly at fault if she does, or b) he is stupid and as a result of his own stupidity will be taken advantage of...And another thing. Though rarely mentioned on this forum, in order to keep a woman happy it sure helps if you can keep her happy in the sack. In your hypothetical/reality based vignette you mentioned nothing about the sex life of the couple...While these women will come over here for socio-economic reasons, I believe they are more likely to stay if they are happy in bed too...Finally, as one of the married-to- a-Colombiana guys on this forum, I would in no way say that marrying a Colombiana and bringing her here is easy. In my opinion it's harder than your normal marriage, because as the gringo in his home country, you are actually somewhat responsible for helping your wife adapt....

[innerperson]

I think the marriage topic is pretty interesting.


I understand where FT is coming from and I think along the same lines when it comes to a lot of things.  When it comes to marriage, I think there are times you can control the outcome, many times you cannot and many times there isn't enough time in the day to warrant the work .


I have seen marriage couples get complacent about their relationship.  It is hard to keep the relationship fresh when both parents are working and adding kids into the mix.  This would be an area that could be controlled with some work.


Women will leave in order to feel the love tingling again.  I truly believe women are excited about the idea of marriage and the beautiful wedding but then reality hits after some time.  The "in love" feelings will last 2 to 3 years and then you settle into a different type of love.  You really do need something else to keep the two of you together, like kids (even though that really isn't enough anymore).


I think it is pretty telling when you look at the stats of who files for divorce.  I believe women are the initial filers at around the 80% rate. 


This is, of course, my opinion.  I think the idea of marriage is obsolete now.  It has become more of a long term relationship that will be successful if it lasts 10 or so years. 

[Bob_S]

[]
The parts of this thread that diverged into personal attacks have been split off and sent to the flame room.

If you wish to post further on this topic with helpful commentary and advice for Tim, please do so but stay on topic.

Thanks for your cooperation.

~Mod Bob
[/]