Canadian man disappears in Medellin, last seen leaving a bar with a woman.

[mudd]

a canadian man has disappeared. last seen in Medellin, leaving a salsa bar with a woman. Soon after,  multiple bank account withdraws


http://www.elcolombiano.com/antioquia/seguridad/profesor-turco-ramazan-gencay-desaparecido-en-medellin-MX9808853

https://www.pulzo.com/nacion/desaparecido-docente-turco-medellin-hace-semana-PP609597

[buenopues4]

He is of course a Turk residing in Canada. Wonder what his wife thinks of the news that he was last seen leaving a bar with a woman. Looks like he won't be teaching classes in the spring semester.

[mudd]

He is of course a Turk residing in Canada. Wonder what his wife thinks of the news that he was last seen leaving a bar with a woman. Looks like he won't be teaching classes in the spring semester.

nope, hasnt been found yet, sad to say, but  doubt they will ever find him.

[utopiacowboy]

You can always count on Mudd for these stories. Good old Medallo, it's not for the faint of heart.

[mudd]

You can always count on Mudd for these stories. Good old Medallo, it's not for the faint of heart.

and we can always count on utopiacowboy  to say Medellin is the safest place in south america, all the women are perfect little angels  and make perfect wives 

[mambocowboy]

and we can always count on utopiacowboy  to say Medellin is the safest place in south america, all the women are perfect little angels  and make perfect wives 

Lol both of you

[robert angel]

He is of course a Turk residing in Canada. Wonder what his wife thinks of the news that he was last seen leaving a bar with a woman. Looks like he won't be teaching classes in the spring semester.

Part of me wants to chuckle, part of me realized " But for the grace of God, there go I."

For over forty years, my family owned a grand old home in the orginal 'Old Town' area of Key West, Florida. My parents were always pretty frugal, but home and travel were always budget priorities and we were always in on the ride to wherever.

For about twenty of those years, I was a heavy drinking crazy guy, just an all around party animal. That was in the late 70s and and 80s, before Key West became f__king ' gentrified' and too fancy and monetized for a scallywag like me. My parents sold the place last year. I 'cleaned up ' a good bit before I married this second time and I'm glad my wife got to see, both a sanitized version of K.W. and me there many times. But Christmas just won't be the same anymore. I know some years, when glacially slow internet finally came to the island, I posted here from there.

I think my last post from K.W. was about the totally unmarked, fifty foot or so long "Cigarette boats" each running 4 or 5 of Seven Marine's "627" outboard motors, same engines used in the Cadillac CTV, Camaro ZL1, but tuned for ocean use, cranking out up to 627 horsepower EACH, hooked up to ZF tranmissions, up to 6000 RPM redlines. About a 100K each, stock. You definitely didn't ask those guys, coming in via dinghy, "Hey Man, whatchya in town for?" Over 2500 to over 3000 HP, on the back of a long, skinny boat, likely from the Yucatan and probably NOT running bananas or mangos...

But being 90 miles from Cuba, not too far from C.  America or Mexico's Yucatan peninsula and a slow by land 120 mile drive from mainland Florida, for many years, K.W. quite literally had an "anything goes" atmosphere, with a simmering resentment among the populace towards the 'upper 48' states, (they spoke of seceding from the Union, apart from any North- South issues), which is one reason why author Ernest Hemmingway loved, fished, drank a lot, sometimes wrote and certainly spent a lot of time there, before my time.

People born there are known as "Conchs," after the shell that once abounded there, but is now gone And the once hallucinatingly beautiful reefs there are dead too. Like grey ghosts of once incredibly seascape, killed off by the warming sea.

But my family, despite my own terrible, wicked ways, were formally recognized by the oldest K.W. establishment as 'Freshwater Conchs' -- an honor greater to us than any Washington DC could possibly bestow.

But if anybody did, it was old 'Papa' Hemmingway, who was rumored to have partied more than me! 

Walking into Captain Tony's  Sloppy Joe's or a dozen or so lesser known 'watering holes' --- before I'd even got to my bar stool, the bar keep was mixing me a up double strong 'Cuba Libre', the first of many. I usually drank for free, but if my tab would've been, say $100, I'd tip the keep at least $50 or so. Whatever really, as usually the next day I was broke anyhow.

Back then, the place, really the whole island, was full of sketchy types. Sure there were a few movie stars, some eccentric rich folks who probably felt mixing with the riff raff made them feel more 'normal,' but it was an eclectic mix of mongrels overall. My parents liked it because there, we had no TV, we had fruit trees all in front and back, a pool and jacuzzi, tons of books to read and except for an occasional stroll or bike to 'Faustos Food Palace' or to Five Brothers Grocery and sandwich shop, we never had to go anywhere. Perfectly boring. Relaxed. For many then, Key West was their "end of the line." No chain restaurants or drug stores, no cruise ships, no selfie sticks, no crowds. Too far off the beaten path for 'normal' people.

But outside of our immediate neighborhood, there WAS, for those who cared and dared, (like me) a bar scene, where it was nothing to smoke whatever you liked or for someone to whip out an 'eightball' of cocaine, a knife, chopping and laying out lines on top of the bar, say: "Have at it mates, lines are on the house!!"--- at least at the bars I went to.

Later on, when the DEA started to get serious there, with radar blimps, with aerial and patrol boat surveillance, most of the bars changed a bit too. We'd occasionally find bales of coke and pot ("square grouper" we called it) washed up onshore, from runs went wrong. I was always beach combing after word of a bust or big storm, as the contraband was worth a lot more on the mainland. And there were no road check points.

The old Cubans stood out as really the only ' normal' establishment types. They ran great family restaurants and groceries and had years prior, made fortunes from the cigar business. But artists, authors, whores, drug runners and desparado types, people running from Lord only knew what, were all around. Real life pirates and parrots.

And like a character in a "Where's Waldo Book" or perhaps "Curious George Visits the Insane Asylum," there I was, smack dab in the mix. Awash in Treasure Island.

Many nights, I had no idea how or when I got home from carousing the bars. The Hemingway house is by the lighthouse, so at least he always had it's beacon light as a guide, but for me, other than the nearby old cemetery (a great story or two right there-- one lady engraved on her husband's tomb: "At least I know where he's sleeping tonight" etc.) i had no reference when I was really plastered. Our home was again, in the middle of 'Old Town,' one of the ten oldest houses there. A few times, I just slept it off in the cemetary. It's actually very quiet there at night.

But there were always an amazing array of babes at the bars and before, unless I got obliteratingly sh!t faced drunk, sometimes I ended up at their place for a 'frolic' after closing. (although damn the law, Boca Chica bar never closed)

After all, I couldn't bring one home like that to 'meet the family' LOL. A few times, despite having gotten drunk,  I'd wake up the next morn and not even know the girl in bed with me's name!

But back to the unfortunate story nay high, about the disappearance of the Turk and how the news would no doubt be unwelcome to his wife....

Perhaps my oddest drunken, misadventure in K.W. was one night--actually one early morn, I was partying with a group of lower strata Cubans, half probably illegals, one of whom nonetheless had a boat.

They heard that the fisherman were slaying the grouper, snapper and mahi mahi--filling coolers to the max. I probably lied, and told them I was the best fisherman on earth. It was a full moon and the seas weren't too rough, so along with these hombres, I set out, myself already being the proverbial "three sheets to the wind."

They had already addressed provisions for such a trip, so with plenty of tackle and bait aboard, we nonetheless added more beer and rum. TOO well provisioned it turned out. Still drinking, I passed out on board.

By the time I woke up to daylight, we were wayyyy out, to the Dry Tortugas, a desolate fortress/prison island, about two hour and a half hours by sea from K.W. My 'mates' -- most of who I barely knew, and me, fished until past noon the next day, until the sun got too damn hot. Not that we cared about any law or fish limits, we did max out our coolers and back at port, sold our fish at dock, actually making a fair profit. Maybe the only time I came off a bender with more money than I started.

A different bunch of Cubanos might have tossed me over board to save fuel money or cut me up to use for bait. I easily could've ended up like the "Turk" after leaving that bar. But I was lucky. Stupid, but lucky. Somebody else might have left that bar, boarded a boat, and been "Shanghaied" or worse, never to be seen again.

As for my family and that longer than my already too typical 'disappearances'--- they were NOT happy, but with me already being the black sheep of the family, there wasn't much more they could do!

[Wildstubby]

Robert angel, you have a knack for telling stories with an emphasis on the descriptions. I could get into my times as a swabbie waking up Christmas morning in the gut of Palma de Mallorca singing Christmas carols with the gypsies, (in Spanish no less!), after a night of heavy imbibing! However, after 35 years, I'm still collecting details! But I digress. A friend of mine, (from Bradenton), once told me, "There's no such thing as an old fool!" Maybe this man proved that theory wrong. I think someone stated earlier that (my interpolation), 'Colombia is not Kansas', or in this case Quebec. On another forum I kind of got brow beaten about being alert, especially in Medellin. I became a victim when after a 5 hour flight to Bogota, I was tired and let my guard down for one instant! Fortunately, the perps only got an obsolete computer and some other things that made my life discomforting for the ensuing week. The take-aways here are that when you are at your most venerable, that is when you stand the greatest strike from others wanting to get at you. You just have to remember their prospective!

[mudd]

Lol both of you

well, least we are both consistent   

[utopiacowboy]

and we can always count on utopiacowboy  to say Medellin is the safest place in south america, all the women are perfect little angels  and make perfect wives 

Actually I don't think Medellin is safe at all. You have to be thinking about safety all the time. Watching who is on the street, not wearing any jewelry etc.


As for the women they are the most beautiful on earth but they are schemers and opportunists. Of course I like that about them. Most of them are probably terrible wives but then the men are terrible husbands so it's even.

[Elexpatriado]

Actually I don't think Medellin is safe at all. You have to be thinking about safety all the time. Watching who is on the street, not wearing any jewelry etc.


As for the women they are the most beautiful on earth but they are schemers and opportunists. Of course I like that about them. Most of them are probably terrible wives but then the men are terrible husbands so it's even.

Wisest thing you ever posted UC

Dont know if paisas are the most beautiful.or devious women on earth.

That distinctión goes to the Former Soviet Countries in my opinión

[robert angel]

Actually I don't think Medellin is safe at all. You have to be thinking about safety all the time. Watching who is on the street, not wearing any jewelry etc.


As for the women they are the most beautiful on earth but they are schemers and opportunists. Of course I like that about them. Most of them are probably terrible wives but then the men are terrible husbands so it's even.

I forget which travel site rated it, but they recently placed Colombia near the top of the world's most dangerous places to visit. If I recall correctly, I think they singled out Bogota as being the most dangerous city there, which surprised me, an admittedly unknowledgeable to the nation guy.

But it seemed really weird to see middle eastern and African nations, as well as impoverished former USSR nations, places engaged in civil wars, rated as safer.

But I honestly feel that it's all relative, that we're like the dog in  "Every dog has it's day" and I could get shot at the closest gas station to our house on any given day.

Best to try and be safe and wary, but when your number's up, it's up...

Look at the latest mass shooting in an affluent town in California. That city was evaluated and declared the "Third safest place to live in the USA" for this year. Then go figure.....

I almost place more attention on which nations have the best USD $ currency exchange rates as being of useful accuracy.

[Elexpatriado]

I forget which travel site rated it, but they recently placed Colombia near the top of the world's most dangerous places to visit. If I recall correctly, I think they singled out Bogota as being the most dangerous city there, which surprised me, an admittedly unknowledgeable to the nation guy.

But it seemed really weird to see middle eastern and African nations, as well as impoverished former USSR nations, places engaged in civil wars, rated as safer.

But I honestly feel that it's all relative, that we're like the dog in  "Every dog has it's day" and I could get shot at the closest gas station to our house on any given day.

Best to try and be safe and wary, but when your number's up, it's up...

Look at the latest mass shooting in an affluent town in California. That city was evaluated and declared the "Third safest place to live in the USA" for this year. Then go figure.....

I almost place more attention on which nations have the best USD $ currency exchange rates as being of useful accuracy.

Whatever..travel sites just post BS for all.the nervious nellies living in their mommies basament to lap up.Lets be honest..the Colombians have been raising beautiful.families for centuries, yet everyone on these expat sites concentrate on the sensationalistic crap.

[Wildstubby]

utopiacowboy said:

Actually I don't think Medellin is safe at all. You have to be thinking about safety all the time. Watching who is on the street, not wearing any jewelry etc.


As for the women they are the most beautiful on earth but they are schemers and opportunists. Of course I like that about them. Most of them are probably terrible wives but then the men are terrible husbands so it's even.

I agree 100% on both accounts. Never been to the USSR but I understand them to have a 'Jekyll & Hyde' mentality. Hence it was the reason I looked in Colombia, (another storied account!). I was waved off about going to Medellin as a first visit by the Coladmin at colombiahelp.com. When I was in Ibague, I dropped my guard and my novia caughted and told me no. Some fellow asked for the time. I was going to give it but she told me "NO!". Then later said that it was a possible set-up. But to really put things into perspective. The big social 'thing' here is Pokemon Go!. You know, where you see people wandering aimlessly around cities, (here in the US), with cell phone in hand trying to 'capture' Pokemon. It seems to transcend different generations. So I asked my novia's son about it, he told me they don't do it in Colombia. I asked why. He said, "Too many people would get their cell phones stolen!"
 

[mudd]

well, they finally found his body, sad, welcome to medellin


https://www.nsnews.com/missing-british-columbia-professor-ramazan-gencay-found-dead-in-colombia-1.23563026


https://m.eltiempo.com/colombia/medellin/confirman-muerte-de-docente-turco-ramazan-gencay-en-medellin-309238?fbclid=IwAR3z6dRNuqvGPuGcDMols-34Sz5xF-zKvhcB8IU4mgd5n2RTP1Ngk0hXTxc

[Elexpatriado]

"Some account have been inaccurate" Yeah,  sure...The Colombian accounts in Spanish that come right from.the police sources are innacurate and the Canadian news sources who are obviously covering things up are accurate..yeah, sure.whatever..

Ohh well ....guess I cant blame the wife and daughter for trying to cover up the fact he was trouncing around with putas and got burundangad... 

[robert angel]

"Some account have been inaccurate" Yeah,  sure...The Colombian accounts in Spanish that come right from.the police sources are innacurate and the Canadian news sources who are obviously covering things up are accurate..yeah, sure.whatever..

Ohh well ....guess I cant blame the wife and daughter for trying to cover up the fact he was trouncing around with putas and got burundangad...

They 'say' the guy was a salsa enthusiast and was at a known salsa nightclub.  In and of itself, that makes it sound like he was very unlucky.

You know differently that he was with 'putas' and drugged? You have media, other sources or just hunches based on personal experience?

[Wildstubby]

Robert angel said:

They 'say' the guy was a salsa enthusiast and was at a known salsa nightclub.  In and of itself, that makes it sound like he was very unlucky.

You know differently that he was with 'putas' and drugged? You have media, other sources or just hunches based on personal experience?

Robert, don't you know that elexpatriado 'hears all, sees all, knows all'? Especially when it comes to all things Colombian! Did you know that?? Unfortunately, there is some truth in what he said, (as much as I hate to admit it!). The papers were indeed saying/implying that scopolamine was used.

[Elexpatriado]

They 'say' the guy was a salsa enthusiast and was at a known salsa nightclub.  In and of itself, that makes it sound like he was very unlucky.

You know differently that he was with 'putas' and drugged? You have media, other sources or just hunches based on personal experience?

Dont be so niave Robert..
I dont question any of your Philipines or US ( extremely long-winded) stories ( I bow to your superior knowledge) so why do you quesiton my conclusiones based on evidence on how things are in Colombia and Canadá?


I read the Spanish  language Colombian newspapers that say exatly that and and I only use common sense.

I also know the newspapers in Canada are scared of being sued  and are witholding the truth...at the request of the family.

Prostitutes with expertise in Use of Burundanga are renowned in the discos in Poblado and elsewhere in Medellin.

The Colombian papers report  He was videod with  a "group of women"

He probably did  not known what type of women they were at first ..but that is what they were.


What conclusión Do you have? He was abducted by aliens with "human female costumes"who also cleaned out his bank account and deposited his body in a ditch in  the outskirts of Medellín?


That being said, it is very trágic, and could have happened to me a couple of times,  but I never had a wife and daughter back home  to report  to.

I also see this guy has travelled a lot overseas

I have worked as an Expat overseas for years and know what the behavior of suposedly married men are like when they are overseas by themselves.

What happens in Colombia..stays in Colombia.. only this time, it didnt. 

[robert angel]

I know you can easily reach general conclusions, based on real, personal experiences there, but I was wondering what the apparently  not 'too afraid to report the likely truth' local news, media there actually said. 

But I couldn't get Google translate to work to see what the media is reporting there as the likely scenario.

Hate to be morbid, but what's the Spanish language media putting out--any translatable quotes? I was wondering if they even found the guy in one piece--- I've seen plenty of grisly tales from thereabouts.

Do please permit my pursuance of the putrid, lurid details...

But my Spanish barely gets me through Taco Bell. And they still mess up my order--I mean, how hard can "Three of your value menu Frito Burritos, please" be? I tried 'por favor' and the counter lady said: "I don't care if you're poor, cash money, NO favors"

No respect.

Like when my ex said: "I want to make love in the back seat of the car again--like in the old days"

I was so excited, until she added:

"Only THIS time, you'll have to drive"...

[Elexpatriado]

I know you can easily reach general conclusions, based on real, personal experiences there, but I was wondering what the apparently  not 'too afraid to report the likely truth' local news, media there actually said. 

But I couldn't get Google translate to work to see what the media is reporting there as the likely scenario.

Hate to be morbid, but what's the Spanish language media putting out--any translatable quotes? I was wondering if they even found the guy in one piece--- I've seen plenty of grisly tales from thereabouts.

Do please permit my pursuance of the putrid, lurid details...

But my Spanish barely gets me through Taco Bell. And they still mess up my order--I mean, how hard can "Three of your value menu Frito Burritos, please" be? I tried 'por favor' and the counter lady said: "I don't care if you're poor, cash money, NO favors"

No respect.

Like when my ex said: "I want to make love in the back seat of the car again--like in the old days"

I was so excited, until she added:

"Only THIS time, you'll have to drive"...

They found his decomposing body in a Quebreda ( stream..in a ditch or ravine) in  a vereda (hamlet) near Medellin.

They all.mention how his cc was  maxed out and he was seen with "several women" near his hotel.

They all mention..either speculate  or state factually, he was a victim.of burundanga or escolpamina

These details are all omitted from tve Canadian news articles

[buenopues4]

"They all"? Who pray tell? I wonder how good your memory is under the effects of scopolamine (burandanga) i.e. could you recollect the four digit pin of your debit card account. I say that because tapping it in is completely automatic for me at the atm but the other day I was locked out of my account for a discrepancy and required to enter my pin to get back in. I got it wrong the first time and had to check my records to get it right. Maybe I could get it right if they had me personally at the atm while I was drugged but I dunno. Back to the case in question I wonder how long scopolamine can be traced in a decomposing body. In any case I'm waiting for the publication that states, following an autopsy it was found. The fact is there are plenty of other ways the victim could have been convinced to give up the four digit pin with out being drugged. Of course they could be bloody.

[mambocowboy]

"They all"? Who pray tell? I wonder how good your memory is under the effects of scopolamine (burandanga) i.e. could you recollect the four digit pin of your debit card account. I say that because tapping it in is completely automatic for me at the atm but the other day I was locked out of my account for a discrepancy and required to enter my pin to get back in. I got it wrong the first time and had to check my records to get it right. Maybe I could get it right if they had me personally at the atm while I was drugged but I dunno. Back to the case in question I wonder how long scopolamine can be traced in a decomposing body. In any case I'm waiting for the publication that states, following an autopsy it was found. The fact is there are plenty of other ways the victim could have been convinced to give up the four digit pin with out being drugged. Of course they could be bloody.

Either way, he met his end by chasing tail, as have millions of men since the beginning of time, regardless of intellect, education   or socio-economic status...

[benjio]

"They all"? Who pray tell? I wonder how good your memory is under the effects of scopolamine (burandanga) i.e. could you recollect the four digit pin of your debit card account. I say that because tapping it in is completely automatic for me at the atm but the other day I was locked out of my account for a discrepancy and required to enter my pin to get back in. I got it wrong the first time and had to check my records to get it right. Maybe I could get it right if they had me personally at the atm while I was drugged but I dunno. Back to the case in question I wonder how long scopolamine can be traced in a decomposing body. In any case I'm waiting for the publication that states, following an autopsy it was found. The fact is there are plenty of other ways the victim could have been convinced to give up the four digit pin with out being drugged. Of course they could be bloody.

BP,

You have to see someone on it. You really do!! The effects aren’t what you think they would be. It’s actually an incredibly interesting and unique substance because of the way it alters your perception of reality and your ability to cognitively be aware of what you’re doing. I’ve seen people who do it in low doses just to escape. I’ve also seen prostitutes on it that were drugged without their knowledge and/or raped. After a low dose the person is 100% conscious. They appear to be aware of their surroundings and they respond appropriately to any stimulation of their senses. If something is coming toward you, you’ll move. If you eat spicy food, you’ll gag. If someone asks you a question, you’ll respond. You may a appear to be a bit clumsy but not stumbling like you’re drunk or passing out as if you’re high on opiates. But you’re detached!!! It’s like the parts of your brain that control everything else are working fine, but whatever synaptic process in our minds that connect reality with our perception of that reality...it malfunctions. There have literally been thousands of cases of people under the influence of scopolamine being taken to ATM’s and withdrawing all the money they could because someone told them to. Even here in the U.S. in cities with large Colombian Populations like Houston, Miami and NYC. In some cases these people go to the bank’s authorities afterwards to try and dispute the withdrawals, and the banks show them video of themselves pulling out the money. They usually have absolutely no recollection of what they did. You become extremely suggestive. You have no free will. Especially if someone is asking you to do something over and over again. It turns people into obdient robots. It’s actually used as a date rape drug in Brazil much more often than a substance used for larceny.

In powder form it’s fine enough to be airborne from very little agitation but it’s usually sprayed from perfume/cologne bottles. I’ve also heard of girls in Colombia playing interested in a guy, then telling him his breath smells and offering up mint spray but shooting it directly under his nose instead. Once you inhale, you’re done for hours. It has a very faint, but intoxicating aroma. I can’t even think of something else that smells like it and you can hardly smell it...even in large amounts. Just being in a car while someone opens a container of the dust will send your mind swimming for hours. In high doses it can have the same effects as a labotamy or even be deadly. The more you read about it, the more you’ll be amazed by its affects on the human mind.

[buenopues4]

Good tale Benijo. I'm not sure I buy into all of it but a good read nevertheless. I've been in Colombia for 17 years and as far as I know I haven't come across anyone suffering the effects of that drug so it surprises me that you appear to have had many personal encounters with people who were drugged. Not doubting you though. When I came to Colombia and signed up with the COOMEVA health insurance company there was a long list of coverages. At the end was coverage against scopolamine attack. The reason turned out to be that the drug, administered by criminals can produce severe eye damage. Many sources indicate that scopolamine is produced from various plants in the Solenaceae family (which includes Deadly Nightshade). In Colombia the common s[/size]ource is Brugmansia species popularly known in English as Angel's Trumpets and in Spanish as Borrachera. They are small trees and are considered cultivars growing only in the presence of human habitation i.e. you will never find one growing in a Colombian forest (unless brought by flood waters or something). Lord Alistar Hay (former director of the Royal Botanical Garden of Sidney Australia and owner of a finca a short ways away from mine) author of Huanduj  (Indian name of Brugmansia) the most recent and most exhaustive  tome on the subject states it has probably been a cultivar growing around Indian villages for ten thousand years. It has a long history in Colombia as a psychoactive plant which was sometimes combined with yagé to produce an even more intense experience. There are about ten of them growing on my finca and they bloom about every other month. An unusual quality is that they emit their aroma, an intense and permiating  perfume only from about 5:30pm til about  6am. In daytime there is no scent all.I have toyed with the idea over the years of trying a tea made from their leaves but have read articles about severe results in patients in the US. Decided to skip it.[/color]

[benjio]

Good tale Benijo. I'm not sure I buy into all of it but a good read nevertheless. I've been in Colombia for 17 years and as far as I know I haven't come across anyone suffering the effects of that drug so it surprises me that you appear to have had many personal encounters with people who were drugged.

Believe it or not some Colombians and a lot of the narco-tourists that come to Colombia do it recreationally. And again, this is in extremely low, diluted doses but I still think it's absolutely insane!! Then again, people travel thousands of miles just to do ayahuasca. I did a lot of clubbing along the coast and in Cali a few years back and although I was only making assumptions, pretty sure I ran across people that had been drugged. It's that blank look in their eyes. Sort of hard to describe but I imagine it's like the thousand yard stare. I also started having experiences with people on it while living in Brazil. A lot of narco guys come to Brazil from Colombia to deal with the more powerful gangs in the favelas of Rio and Sao Paulo. My guess is they introduced it to them, and now guys that want to rape hookers use it. That's where I have a lot more experience with under the influence of the drug. Anyone that hangs out anywhere on Copacabana at night is going to have exposure to a lot of working girls whether they're interested in them or not. It's inevitable. Really nasty, dangerous substance though.

[robert angel]

Believe it or not some Colombians and a lot of the narco-tourists that come to Colombia do it recreationally. And again, this is in extremely low, diluted doses but I still think it's absolutely insane!! Then again, people travel thousands of miles just to do ayahuasca. I did a lot of clubbing along the coast and in Cali a few years back and although I was only making assumptions, pretty sure I ran across people that had been drugged. It's that blank look in their eyes. Sort of hard to describe but I imagine it's like the thousand yard stare. I also started having experiences with people on it while living in Brazil. A lot of narco guys come to Brazil from Colombia to deal with the more powerful gangs in the favelas of Rio and Sao Paulo. My guess is they introduced it to them, and now guys that want to rape hookers use it. That's where I have a lot more experience with under the influence of the drug. Anyone that hangs out anywhere on Copacabana at night is going to have exposure to a lot of working girls whether they're interested in them or not. It's inevitable. Really nasty, dangerous substance though.

While it appears this more recently well known (abroad anyway) substance, when used in certain ways, and measured amounts, can induce 'zombie like' behavior, (with correct dosage)--- even almost zombie like behavior,  but an also a bizarre ability and awareness to give your finances, possessions to strangers. That said, the base use of it and substances similarly known, is nothing new.

If in fact it's used for rape purposes,  Rohypnol
(roofies, 'date-rape' drug) has been around quite a while now.

"Mickeys" go back to old English days, basically adding various substances to again illebriate and gain some sort of advantage upon an unsuspecting victim.

Hell, nothing to be proud of, but in college, we would buy (legal in a number of US states) 'EverClear' = 180 proof grain alcohol. That's 90% alcohol.

Mixed with super sweet Coco Lopez Creme of Coconut, pineapple and concentrated OJ juice, with fizzy ginger ale soda pop, you could hardly taste the alcohol.

Besides, we put it in a punch bowl with glasses (punch glasses, the size and with the look of ornate tea cups) attached all around, and it not only almost tasted like, but it looked like something you'd encounter at a church social.

But you could probably run a Corvette engine with the stuff. High octane, sleeper sh!t for sure...

But it certainly did loosen up some young ladies, women many who were prim and proper types, who'd never be seen, near a keg, never mind drinking a mixed drink like a rum and coke, never mind scotch and soda...

So the ways, the methods of taking unfair, even illegal actions against unsuspecting victims, may have changed, but the base motivations, be they physical or material, remain.

[Wildstubby]

Robert angel said:

While it appears this more recently well known (abroad anyway) substance, when used in certain ways, and measured amounts, can induce 'zombie like' behavior, (with correct dosage)--- even almost zombie like behavior,  but an also a bizarre ability and awareness to give your finances, possessions to strangers. That said, the base use of it and substances similarly known, is nothing new.

If in fact it's used for rape purposes,  Rohypnol
(roofies, 'date-rape' drug) has been around quite a while now.

"Mickeys" go back to old English days, basically adding various substances to again illebriate and gain some sort of advantage upon an unsuspecting victim.

Hell, nothing to be proud of, but in college, we would buy (legal in a number of US states) 'EverClear' = 180 proof grain alcohol. That's 90% alcohol.

Mixed with super sweet Coco Lopez Creme of Coconut, pineapple and concentrated OJ juice, with fizzy ginger ale soda pop, you could hardly taste the alcohol.

Besides, we put it in a punch bowl with glasses (punch glasses, the size and with the look of ornate tea cups) attached all around, and it not only almost tasted like, but it looked like something you'd encounter at a church social.

But you could probably run a Corvette engine with the stuff. High octane, sleeper sh!t for sure...

But it certainly did loosen up some young ladies, women many who were prim and proper types, who'd never be seen, near a keg, never mind drinking a mixed drink like a rum and coke, never mind scotch and soda...

So the ways, the methods of taking unfair, even illegal actions against unsuspecting victims, may have changed, but the base motivations, be they physical or material, remain.

What's scary is the delivery method. One good whiff and you are under the spell! I've heard of people putting it on their sleeve waiting for a mark to walk by and give it a 'blow'. You become like a puppy dog lead on a leash and there is nothing you can do about it and nothing that you remember about it!

[robert angel]

Robert angel said:What's scary is the delivery method. One good whiff and you are under the spell! I've heard of people putting it on their sleeve waiting for a mark to walk by and give it a 'blow'. You become like a puppy dog lead on a leash and there is nothing you can do about it and nothing that you remember about it!

It's one of few drugs I don't have greater familiarity with than most people do.

That said, while I don't doubt that a whiff blown one's way can have strong effects, I'd gather 'dosing' --the amount and delivery method used to get the desired effects, has to be fairly precise.

Perhaps you can knock somebody out stupid, wait for them to become a more cooperative 'zombie' and take them all around to banks, ATMs, get them to sign off on nbn this or that--I really don't know.

My experience with S.Amercan drugs generally showed a wide variety of purity,  with a variety of substances often mixed (cut) in and accordingly, varying effects.

I'd gather this drug is generally distributed in pretty pure form, but the described dose delivery methods, especially if done in a public area, leave me scratching my head.

Fentanyl,  on the other hand, a man made super opiate, when in pure form in ziplock bags, if there's even a tiny leak and some topically ends up on your skin, it can kill you very quickly.

Last couple times they gave me fentanyl,(with propofol!) when they initiated dosing via IV, they said "count to ten." I don't even remember getting to four.

Michael Jackson, rest in peace. His Dr. got 4 years to rest in a Texas prison for over dosing him on 'just' propofol.

I am very fortunate in that besides being a 'wild and crazy guy--party animal a long time ago, I no longer have indescribably horrific back pain, I no longer take narcotic drugs, although I could easily get a legal Rx for them. Given my history, the feds wouldn't question my Drs.

But I was in pain so bad I couldn't even tie my own shoes---I wore loafers all the time. Sometimes, I couldn't drive. Walking, just being conscious,  meant pain.

I never talked about it here, because the truth is people here 99% of the time don't give a f__k about such things. Generally, if it doesn't  pertain to how some guy can get pussy--a wife, your, my posts are probably a waste of time.

But in the years leading up until the best neurosurgeon in the world gave me my life back (I can do yoga with 20 year olds today and I am eternally thankful to my wife for hanging with me for years prior, as our 'love life' was nil), but I popped dilaudid like peanut M&Ms.

I was honest about the pain and about my consumption and they gave me 100% straight dilaudid w/o any acetaminophen, as I said: "Doc, I don't want to fry my liver".

That's the kinda drug, aside from morphine drips and fentanyl patches, (which I also had if I requested) that they give end stage terminal cancer patients who can still walk.

But unlike scopolamine and other street drugs, I knew what I had (my wife kept CLOSE watch too, as a mistakenly taken double dose could've killed me, spoiling Christmas) and she knew the 'buzz' was cool (TOO cool, actually) with me.

But it was a lot safer/accurate than blowing powder, street smack (heroin) or scopomine in the air, hoping to get the desired effect...

But one thing everyone here ought to know, is excessive alcohol, street drugs, and strong 'pain' meds, sedatives etc, WILL permanently reduce your IQ. You may not hurt as bad, but you will lose brain cells.

[benjio]

The drug’s mind altering properties are so unique and so powerful I’ve heard there’s serious research going into medicinal uses. It’s very misunderstood. But like I said, when you see someone on it...like seriously on it, it’s like nothing you’ve ever seen before. Complete and total control of physical coordination and motor skills, no hallucinations. They tend to be a bit clumsy but definitely not drunk off their ass stumbling. But their mind is in another place. They’re just gone. I can’t accurately describe it. It’s really just sometning you have to see.