A Different Destination for a change - Ukraine

[Zon]

So, there you have it.  I am the proud owner of a brand new love story.  I get to be a main character ...


Seriously, I feel very different about this woman.  I have, do, and will take every bit of this seriously and try only to make the best out of it - for both of us.  Last week, I hoped that I had enough time to get her serious attention; now I worry that I do not have enough time to complete he first chapter.  But, she is a VERY good, traditional woman.  She has an inner strength that is almost extinct in the USA.   She is the opposite from most of the women I have known recently.


So, FT, despite appearances ... YES, I have in fact changed gears over the last 6 months - amazingly so over the last 6 days. 

[fathertime]

well that sounds a little better zonnybertis...if you can continue to avoid the pointless counterproductive jackassicle behaviors then you will have a shot.   You also need to quite thinking you are a pussy for acting like a normal man that is somewhat infatuated with a woman. 


Here is a link to an old thread that you might find useful/humorous: when I started that thread I was at roughly the same point you are at now, with the lady that became my wife.


http://www.planet-love.com/index.php?topic=3810.0


Fathertime!

[Zon]

Have you ever met one of those gals whose filthy feet you would lick clean with your pristine tounge? 


Aside from the gal I am obsessed with, I also have several nice and attractive gals that I have the option to see more of and I am forcing myself to do just that, BUT the only one I really want at this time is the one giving me the most ambiguous signs!  And it is not about her being a CHALLENGE, it more about lust I think! 


The woman I am obsessed with does these things:
1.  Over the period of one month, webcammed with me religiously, always there, I had to cut of the conversations because it was just too much
2.  Comes to see me religously after work 8:10pm. 
3.  Won't let me kiss her, it is becomming a running joke, I make the move she pulls away, I smile sheepishly she becomes nervous!
4.  Allows me to massage her entire body *well not entire" but almost entire! hehe
5.  Does not want me to show affection in public "Hand holding is out of the question", and is concerned about her reputation.
6  Does not ask for money, seems to have concern if I overspend, always looks at the bills to make sure me "The dumb gringo" doesn't get screwed
7. Constantly gently teases me about my appearance and mannerisms, *can't say I blame her*   
8 Has invited me to family dinner saturday evening...
RELEVANT FACT
 is 23 years old...smoking hot to me...objectively looking at her from outside persective a 7.75 on the 1-10 scale.


I have been with her for 3 nights now, but we seem to have stalled in 1ST gear in the physical department.  Normally I cut bait if this happens, but I just can't seem to do that in this case!  I have told her point blank that she does not have to see me if she doesn't want to, yet she retorts that I am being ridiculous and continues to show up!  What does this woman want from me?  My main concern is that I can't get somewhat physical with her, to me that is a bad sign and trumps all the others....especially since I don't think she is conservative in that regard. 

I never read that TR ... I like you much better now:)  YES. I was in a similar situation last week - AND I DID NOT LIKE IT AT  [snip]INGALL


I am very careful and respectful to this woman.  I want the best for her, and am hopeful for us.


===  I HAVE HAD AN AMAZING RUN; but everything gets old.  I was fortunate enough to have enough bachelor party nights for small army.   In Kharkov, about 10 days ago, I was BLESSED to reach a new high point /low point, depending on one's perspective.  LOL  I will leave out the details.  But, damn, I do not need to do that $hit ever again.   I am VERY HAPPY I HAD a second childhood at mid-life.  Brothers, I gave it all I had x 100!  I don't know where I got the energy, or balls.  (think of the money I could have made if I focused that in a different direction!!!)   But, as I look to my future, I do look to a more balanced and sober life.  Anybody else want to be "Zon Zon" for a couple years?  Have at it! ====

[Researcher]

   Well Zon you seem to be seeing things in a more balanced way. I guess you are near the end of your "mid-life crisis". hahaha!


   Seriously, I think it is helpful to be ready for a relationship even before finding the right person. Otherwise you won't be the right person to be in a relationship with, it does take two, or will be looking for love in all the wrong places. Just like the old song says "its like trying to find gold in a silver mine and trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine."

         Researcher

[Zon]

Here is a link to an old thread that you might find useful/humorous: when I started that thread I was at roughly the same point you are at now, with the lady that became my wife.

BTW - I do think a man's behavior when infatuated is very "unmanly" and is seen that way be the woman - especially in the beginning of the relationship.   

Especially, here and with THIS woman, I have no "boyish" charm.  Her attraction to me, her willingness to accept me and consider me, is because we are well paired (THAT is a far cry from being HOT and PASSIONATE - much more mature / Dr. Spockish ), that I am a capable man, that I am not a Ukrainian man with the hopes of better treatment - tenderness and honesty.   It is going to be interesting to see how things between us "thaw" as her guard comes down.  I see that she is very warm and friendly with her family and friends.

We will see ...

[aconcepts]

FT - that was a great link - it was s great story and proves my theory about intuition versus logic. I give intuition a lot of credit regarding my personal success. And the hindsight proved me right. Its all speculation here. All our own personal crap because no one really knows. Sure we entertain ourselves with each others opinion, but....




I would have gone with the crowd and said move on. Look you got what you wished for, and you write that you are happy with it after you got it (most important).


So who really knows. Nobody.


Damn the torpedoes.


Zon do what you do. There are no right answers. We here, like you there, all have our own personal opinion about it but its all just crap.


Why crap? Because our opinion is pretty much worthless as no one really knows as FT post's proves. Opinion are unbankable. When we get it right its almost always luck.


Flow like a twig in the river and realize now is all you have.


Do what you do because that is what you do.


You are sounding like a bit of a drama queen so you may not want to get wrapped up in your personal story so and you may want to examine your thinking to see if the stories you are telling yourself are really true.


And you may not.


Like I have always said, its just my personal crap I write.


Proceed...


Love makes fools of us all.


So what.


I play a good fool. Always have and always will/ Its just part of it. Part of the big package.


If she makes getting through the night easier, then what more can you ask.


We are all just trying to do that, get through the night.


In the big picture its the passage that counts more than the destination. That's where you spend most of your time. So if she is good company during the passage, what more could you ask for?

[davidgm50]

Thanks for all the information.
Are there nice Malls,  or are there blocks of sidewalk cafes, you can sit and watch the goings on, and possibly meet the right one?
 
On the techincal side what is cost of the hotels? daily meals?   flight form US to Russia?   other in-country tranportation costs?  (Colombia has excellent intra country transportation)
Agency fees?

[Zon]

Eastern European / Russian Women are tough!  They are smart and graceful and clever.  Most AM are NO match for them.  So be F$cking Careful.   This is NO PLACE for guys that are push overs IMO.   Colombia is FAR better for numerous reasons for 90% of AM IMO


Kiev - you will be nothing special there.  It is like New York. Having said that, there are many many many women there looking for a good man - but it takes TIME and luck.


Lugansk - very developed MOB industry.  AM are simply marks.


Kharkov - You can make that city work.  But you need Time.


Smaller cities  like the one I am in are classic Big Fish / Small Pond situations.  There are a TON of perfect women here outside the agency network.  They are easy to meet.  But, again, you need a TINY bit of Russian and TIME


There is not point and click.   BUT, if anybody is NORMAL and wants me to share the contacts I have made with good agencies that will charge fair prices without all the middle men BS and price gauging, just PM me, and I will give you the information you need.

[Zon]

MY QUOTE = "Especially, here and with THIS woman, I have no "boyish" charm.  Her attraction to me, her willingness to accept me and consider me, is because we are well paired (THAT is a far cry from being HOT and PASSIONATE - much more mature / Dr. Spockish ), that I am a capable man, that I am not a Ukrainian man with the hopes of better treatment - tenderness and honesty.   It is going to be interesting to see how things between us "thaw" as her guard comes down.  I see that she is very warm and friendly with her family and friends."


Turns out I was wrong!


She just needed time to know I am "for real."   I am with the most beautiful woman in the world - with the highest morals and values I have seen in a long time. ( I could use the help).  Everything is checking out.  No more Dr. Spock.   This could not have been done in 3 or 5 days.  The hardest part of this undertaking for most guys is TIME

[benjio]

MY QUOTE = "Especially, here and with THIS woman, I have no "boyish" charm.  Her attraction to me, her willingness to accept me and consider me, is because we are well paired (THAT is a far cry from being HOT and PASSIONATE - much more mature / Dr. Spockish ), that I am a capable man, that I am not a Ukrainian man with the hopes of better treatment - tenderness and honesty.   It is going to be interesting to see how things between us "thaw" as her guard comes down.  I see that she is very warm and friendly with her family and friends."


Turns out I was wrong!


She just needed time to know I am "for real."   I am with the most beautiful woman in the world - with the highest morals and values I have seen in a long time. ( I could use the help).  Everything is checking out.  No more Dr. Spock.   This could not have been done in 3 or 5 days.  The hardest part of this undertaking for most guys is TIME

Zon,
 
Always good to hear an ol' dog may have found that one special hole to permanently bury his bone in (no sexual innuendo intended..jeje). Best of luck to you and please keep us posted on the progress. The PL Gods might have to reopen the Russian section soon if this keeps up.

[fathertime]

MY QUOTE = "Especially, here and with THIS woman, I have no "boyish" charm.  Her attraction to me, her willingness to accept me and consider me, is because we are well paired (THAT is a far cry from being HOT and PASSIONATE - much more mature / Dr. Spockish ), that I am a capable man, that I am not a Ukrainian man with the hopes of better treatment - tenderness and honesty.   It is going to be interesting to see how things between us "thaw" as her guard comes down.  I see that she is very warm and friendly with her family and friends."


Turns out I was wrong!


She just needed time to know I am "for real."   I am with the most beautiful woman in the world - with the highest morals and values I have seen in a long time. ( I could use the help).  Everything is checking out.  No more Dr. Spock.   This could not have been done in 3 or 5 days.  The hardest part of this undertaking for most guys is TIME

Hi zonny, instead of having you foot in your mouth you apppear to be putting your best foot forward this time around, i'm happy that you have adapted better to this dating environment, regardless of how this particular relationship progresses. 


you are getting a little mushy/silly here, but keep us posted on how things continue to progress and don't self-sabotage unless you make a conscious decision that that is what you want. ...and don't forget to 'measure twice, cut once' jajajja


Fathertime! 

[innerperson]

you are getting a little mushy/silly here,


Fathertime!

Ah heck, don't tell him that FT, he might break up with her.  heh

Zon, I knew before you said you wouldn't bring back a Colombian to live in the states.  Would you change your mind in regards to your new lady?   

I understand it is early to be thinking about stuff like this but still would be interesting to see if you are starting to change your mind towards this line of thinking.

[Zon]

you are getting a little mushy/silly here,

That is only the beginning!   I have not drank too much since I met her.  I have lost my interest in even looking at other women WOW.   I am considering giving up alcohol entirely - except for wine.  I can't see going to a club and dancing - that will set things in an opposite direction.


It is for the best.  Life is lived in chapters and phases.  Sometimes a man wants to hunt and eat a bear, or drive a fast car.  Other times, he wants to grow a garden. 


I will see this through now. I have made up my mind. 


Bring her back to the USA?  With time.   Poltava and the Dominican Republic for the winter seems like a good place to start.

[SkyNorth]

It's great that you have Hearts flying out your Butt. 
 
However, I was hoping for some more in depth reporting on the Ladies of Eastern Europe.

[Researcher]

It's great that you have Hearts flying out your Butt. 
 

    He could try Beano...oh, you said HEARTS....my bad.


       Researcher

[aconcepts]

Yup... you very bad... that is...

[Zon]

However, I was hoping for some more in depth reporting on the Ladies of Eastern Europe.

OK - I was impressed with Berlin, actually.  I thought the women were open and available to me there.,   I thought Prague and Vienna were a little too busy.  The pretty women knew their worth - not easy.


Kiev.  I met two rather spectacular girls there. They did not accept the fact that I was visiting various cities in Ukraine; so when they could not convince me to stay only with them, they said good bye.  A foreigner in this country has a STEP uphill climb, if you are looking for a good, beautiful women.   If you go to Kiev, get the hell out of the city center - you may as well be in New York (which is not sooo bad).    But, again, don't think that you are going to find a perfect 10 just because you are a foreigner - it is not as automatic as it is in Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, the DR ... not by a LONG SHOT.   


Kharkov nice.  Lugansk better .... BUT, you have to spend time looking for a good girl. They are there, but if you rely on the normal ways of meeting, you are going to get a lot of static - professional daters.   The more the women have experience with foreigners, the harder it is.   70% of the guys that come are clowns or insane. 


I found a little city, and have been here for 3 week.  THERE ARE A TON OF BEAUTIFUL women here - if you like skinny white girls. 


A simple comparison between Colombiana and UW:  (remember I love Colombia ... I am just keeping it real )


Colombianas are very passionate and sensual (easy).    They cater to the man much more.   They have a hard time with the truth.   Colombianas have lower self esteem, generally speaking.   Colombianas do not plan for the future, they live in the moment.   Colombianas want to be happy NOW.


UW are guarded and a little cool.   They are not soooo tender and soft.    They tell the truth directly - even when it hurts.   UW have high self esteem and apply themselves greatly in life (education; outside classes; activities; study)   UW are similar to Colombianas in that they have scars and are slow to trust.  Being happy in the moment is not their first concern.   


The beautiful and young and smart women from both cultures can be ambitious and brand conscious.


These are generalizations

[Zon]

Her name is Irina, and she has already changed my life. 

I woke up today with an entirely different set of expectations for myself and goals and values.   Hmmmm   And, fellas, she is a stretch for me!   She is 30.  I am 48.  She has never been married and is without children.  She is the most beautiful woman I have ever been with in truth.   And, she is equally attractive internally. 

When you consider the excess of my last several years, then consider the chance I have with THIS WOMAN - PFFF!  I am one lucky guy. 

It does not look like I will be going to Colombia any more.   I do think I will set up shop in the Dominican Republic, however.  So, I will not be hanging around these parts very often in the future.  I enjoyed our mindless banter.  Thanks for giving me $hit when I deserved it - which was often.

Best of luck to all!


Chau

[SkyNorth]

Zon...Congratulations, I wish the two of you much success. GODSPEED to your next Adventure.
 
And the quote "Heart's flying out of your butt" is from one of my college football coaches. It is a term of endearment for a young man bit by the love bug which happens to 15-20 percent of the football team when the freshmen coeds show up every fall.

[fathertime]

Her name is Irina, and she has already changed my life. 

I woke up today with an entirely different set of expectations for myself and goals and values.   Hmmmm   And, fellas, she is a stretch for me!   She is 30.  I am 48.  She has never been married and is without children.  She is the most beautiful woman I have ever been with in truth.   And, she is equally attractive internally. 

When you consider the excess of my last several years, then consider the chance I have with THIS WOMAN - PFFF!  I am one lucky guy. 

It does not look like I will be going to Colombia any more.   I do think I will set up shop in the Dominican Republic, however.  So, I will not be hanging around these parts very often in the future.  I enjoyed our mindless banter.  Thanks for giving me $hit when I deserved it - which was often.

Best of luck to all!


Chau

Congrats sillyhead, I’m glad you realize that you DID deserve all that crap you took to bring you back to earth, despite the site crybabies calling for a ‘call to arms!  [size=78%] [/size]

Good job in commencing the relationship with the lady and don’t forget to give HER the benefit of the doubt and continue your new trend of being a ‘hard grader’ on yourself and your own actions!   “Let your first child be a masculine child” and don’t forget to make his middle name ‘Fathertime’!  jajajajja!
I don't think the relationship will go south, but if you suddenly see genuine red flags, than don't be too afraid to cut bait, you are never really in too deep at this stage to let a lady go if something ain't right!  Regardless you are much better mentally equipped now, than you were 1 year or even 3 months ago. 
Fathertime! 

[Kiltboy1]

Sorry Zon
 
Don't buy it. New relationship and setting up shop in the "DR" = No Chance

[Researcher]

    Best of luck to you Zon!


      Researcher

[Zon]

little chance ... and, if you were in my head, the probability gets better. BUT I UNDERSTAND


I will say that living in Ukraine is not as nice as Colombia - or Costa Rica or the DR. 


I continue at my task CHIP  CHIP  CHIP

[InnocentVixen]

If she can speak japanese then you can bet your left you know what she was in Japan working one of the gentleman clubs. If she speaks Arabic or any of the darivatives she was most likely paid companion in Dubai or something like that.

If she was or is an exotic dancer then it is pretty much assumed at some point some guy offered her enough to take it to the next level.

You get the picture here.

I think I just realized why a guy disappeared on me right before we met a while ago, he was so nice and we got along great, he was a bit confused with the fact that I would choose japanese as a 3rd language and on our last conversation before he vanished I did mention my belly dancing lessons to him...


He must have assumed I was some sort of escort!! my god I will just keep my mouth shut about my hobbies hahaha

[InnocentVixen]

I am so happy for you and love the mushiness!
I hope things work out with Irina


I am ready for a group hug here