Advice on Medellin from you experts out there please!

[euforia51]

But, getting phone numbers is pretty damn easy. Having them amount to something is more difficult.    And, it is not just me at all.  

I went out with a friend who has been here for 9 months, jesus the guy has literally 100s adn 100s of numbers.  I have a friend that I met in Cali, he bought an apartment here 2 years ago.  He could produce phone numbers for me and him like a ticker tape parade.  (His Spanish was awful, but he thought it was good:)  

I was with an Americano who speaks espaniol muy bien yesterday.  We were together for 3 hours, he got 4 numbers - and he was with his girlfriend!  All this serves to prove a point.  It's easy to meet girls on the fly - even with caveman espaniol

It is hard to meet "good girls" from upper stratas, however. It is hard to convert these acquaintances into dates - high "flake out" rate.

Unfortunately amigo, if you're thinking you need  el perfecto espanol to alleviate the phenomenon of women going no further than giving you a phone number, I believe you're mistaken. And here's why:

You see, women have many different reasons for giving out their phone numbers. Some love the attention of having a lot of men call them. Some like to turn guys down. Some are actually interested. But based on the universal feedback that I get from men and my personal experience, women act differently on the phone than they do in person.

Personally, this is only one reason I prefer to use online and e-mails. I just don't see the point of being able to produce a ticker-tape parade of useless phone numbers. When you're using online, you can cover a lot of ground in a very short period of time. You can cast a net for as many women as you'd like in one sitting and in the comfort of your own abode ... where ever you may be.

But as you say, to each is own.

[fathertime]

Come on... "If you can actually do that.....then you re better then good, you re the prince of f....ing darkness......"  That is NOT TRUE.

I have caveman spanish.  I can communicate with SOME people ok.  Others talk too fast with slang, and I get a headache within 5 minutes.

But, getting phone numbers is pretty damn easy.  Having them amount to something is more difficult.    And, it is not just me at all. 

I went out with a friend who has been here for 9 months, jesus the guy has literally 100s adn 100s of numbers.  I have a friend that I met in Cali, he bought an apartment here 2 years ago.  He could produce phone numbers for me and him like a ticker tape parade.  (His Spanish was awful, but he thought it was good:) 

I was with an Americano who speaks espaniol muy bien yesterday.  We were together for 3 hours, he got 4 numbers - and he was with his girlfriend!  All this serves to prove a point.  It's easy to meet girls on the fly - even with caveman espaniol

It is hard to meet "good girls" from upper stratas, however.  It is hard to convert these acquaintances into dates - high "flake out" rate.

sweet Jesus, zonzon what is it with you and 'getting phone numbers' you sound like a high school nerd just like those ones in that photo Researcher posted....how many phone numbers do you really need?  I mean aren't there any ladies good enough for you? Why do you have to be so darn high maintenance?  Are YOU really worth it?

hen I meet a woman at the mall, in a bus, at the museum, or in a dance club, I am able to read body language, make approximations about the way she is dressed the people she is with ... I am able to discern a lot of info.  Especially, I can determine if she is interested in knowing me.  Maybe that sounds like ancient Greek to some of you.  I don't know. It just makes sense to me.

But, look!  This is one of the many topics that I really don't give two [snip]s about.  If you want to use an agency, do it.  Hell, I have no ax to grind.  I am not AGAINST using an agency someday

and how is all this meeting ladies at the museum going for you so far?  if i had spent as much time as you in Colombia I'd have 2 harems of wives by now. 
Lets face facts here, not many guys are going to be staying in colombia for months at a time...so all your granola organic meeting of the ladies may be ok for you, but plenty of us travelling gasbags are going to go with the odds and try to get some dates lined up through agencies.


Fathertime! 

[whitey]

You are absolutely right. In fact I almost think it's better if your Spanish is not too good - the chicks start giggling about your accent and you're halfway there. I love it when my wife speaks bad English with her accent - very sexy.

I know what you mean, UT ... I love it when Nazly speaks English with her heavy accent ... very sexy!

[whitey]

I travel to meet women and if they dont let me into their life by which I mean their home, I don t meet their friends and especially THEIR FAMILY...I move on. The woman I m with in Monteria is 41, never married, no kids....beautiful...at least to me...and my opinion is the only one I really care about.....and she told me that she had not had a date or a man in her life in 6 years....and I m reasonbly certain that is the truth.

Our first face to face date was on the night of the 23rd I ve been in her office, I ve met some of her work colleagues I ve been in her home, I ve met her family and friends and it s all happened in a week.

This is very good advice from Dennis and worth underlining for the newbies. 

Aside from the physicial cues (touching, holding hands, kissing, sex, etc.) your colombiana should be proud of you, and want to show you off to family (for lunch at their house), other relatives, friends, and workmates.  If she's not doing that, it's either REALLY early in the relationship ... or ... "she's just not that into you."

If you are supposedly novios and especially if you are making the mistake of giving her money, but you're not meeting her friends and family ... then you my friend are being played ...

 

[Zon]

Get off my butt, FT, and why do you care about what I say, or do anyway?  Its none of your business.  I do not seek your approval.  Increasingly, I desire to never have it.  

Your a strange little gringo.  

[fathertime]

Get off my butt, FT, and why do you care about what I say, or do anyway?  Its none of your business.  I do not seek your approval.  Increasingly, I desire to never have it.  

Your a strange little gringo.  

youwill know when i'm on your butt zonzon...you are free to speak.  but since you brought it up, i've decided not to approve of you, so that should please you!...i don't REALLY care what you do, i just find your postings disingenuous some of the time and like to point that out when i get a chance.  yes i'm strange, but remember i didn't feel the need to bring a coterie of bodyguards with me to colombia, that is also a little strange! yes? now carry on, with the phone collecting, or should i say throwing the little scraps of paper away. 

Fathertime! 

[Zon]

Zon Zon!  I smile when I hear people call me that.  I have done many stupid - but fun - things in a very public way over the last couple years. I do not have an ax to grind with many people.   I value tolerance and open mindedness.  I guess that is because I require so much from others.

So, FT, I get it!  You disprove of me. I can live with that ... but please don't jump on every little thing I say and remind me that I valued that my guide had a gun when things got rough, or my old girlfriend claimed she was pregnant a couple years back.  in other words: get a life

========

Getting back to the original posters question ...  I had lunch yesterday with an agency owner and he said there are over 40 agencies in Medellin.  I have posted that there are other ways to meet women, but they require more time and communication because things are not advanced.

I have never seen so many beautiful women in one place, and the surrounding pueblos are even better (but women run to the big cities, so the age drifts downward).   Be careful, however, there are many lies to sift through. 

That is my 5 cents:)

[fathertime]

Zon Zon!  I smile when I hear people call me that.  I have done many stupid - but fun - things in a very public way over the last couple years. I do not have an ax to grind with many people.   I value tolerance and open mindedness.  I guess that is because I require so much from others.

So, FT, I get it!  You disprove of me. I can live with that ... but please don't jump on every little thing I say and remind me that I valued that my guide had a gun when things got rough, or my old girlfriend claimed she was pregnant a couple years back.  in other words: get a life

 

Well zonzon I was just joking about ‘not approving’ of you…
I find such glaring inconsistancies in your posts that I want to point them out.  I mean you constantly bring up how this is a years long process and how you have to know everything about a lady before committing, yet you gleefully posted about knocking up a young latina  that you barely knew….   Many of your past posts have been anti-agency, yet you have never used an agency.  I like some of your posts/points, and may even say so from time to time, but you can’t expect everybody to buy your happy-crappy hook,line, and, sinker! When you make big points that I don’t agree with, I’m going to counter it the same way I do with everybody else, it just so happens that I find more with you than with most, but it nothing personal. I figure you are also just a gasbag doing the best you can! jajaja

Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

It is hard to meet "good girls" from upper stratas, however.  It is hard to convert these acquaintances into dates - high "flake out" rate.

     What is the obsession some guys have with these "upper strata" broads?There are very few of them to begin with and probably even fewer would make a good wife.Why leave the US where there are very few women that would make a good wife and go to another country just to chase after very few women who would make a good wife? It doesn't make sense.The reason most guys go to Colombia is the availability of women there.I never had any desire for one of these elusive upper strata chicks.I dated some and ended up kicking them to the curb just like any other woman that came to that point with me. I guess some wife hunters like the challenge of hunting scarce prey.To them I say:There is plenty of that kind of action here in the US.

                                                          Wife hunting "The Natural Way":

                                          

           Just goes to show that going "clubbing" to pick up women has been around for a long time!
                      


                              Researcher

[Jeff S]

Well, maybe some of us don't shoot for average. Following your logic, you should head to Darfour or Ethiopia, where you can wave a $20 around and get tens of thousands of women begging you to put a ring on their finger in the next 20 minutes. This isn't about having thousands and thousands to choose from, it's about finding one.

I fished in one of the smallest and most difficult ponds there is, upper class in the first world, and struck gold. I found a warm, sincere, ultra loyal, very traditional wife who has stuck with me through thick and thin. You think I should have stayed home and hung out in Beverly Hills or the upper East Side of Manhattan? No thanks. 

[Researcher]

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Well, maybe some of us don't shoot for average. Following your logic, you should head to Darfour or Ethiopia, where you can wave a $20 around and get tens of thousands of women begging you to put a ring on their finger in the next 20 minutes. This isn't about having thousands and thousands to choose from, it's about finding one.

I fished in one of the smallest and most difficult ponds there is, upper class in the first world, and struck gold. I found a warm, sincere, ultra loyal, very traditional wife who has stuck with me through thick and thin. You think I should have stayed home and hung out in Beverly Hills or the upper East Side of Manhattan? No thanks.  

          .....in Japan, totally different pond. But since when is above average in the "upper crust" of society when it comes to finding a wife. It's quite a condescending attitude to think that way. I met several, several women I would consider above average when it comes to wife material. I didn't meet any of them in a "snob-atorium" either. Many guys have found outstanding gems in the not so ritzy side of town because the qualities it takes to be a good wife can't be bought,but that's just my humble opinion.

      What I am suggesting is to look at the person, not the silver spoon in their mouth.But then I consider myself just an average Joe maybe I just don't get it.
            
                                                           
            


  Researcher

[Jeff S]

Your point, was that you should go somewhere where there are lots and lots of choices - otherwise stay home. Mine is that you go where you need to go to find the quality person in a culture you fit into and that fits your lifestyle - that means a nation's culture as well as education, upbringing, and worldview. If that makes me an elitist snob, so be it. I do understand your point, though - if you're going to troll trailer parks looking for gems, you better go somewhere that has a whole lot of trailer parks.

[Researcher]

Your point, was that you should go somewhere where there are lots and lots of choices - otherwise stay home. Mine is that you go where you need to go to find the quality person in a culture you fit into and that fits your lifestyle - that means a nation's culture as well as education, upbringing, and worldview. If that makes me an elitist snob, so be it. I do understand your point, though - if you're going to troll trailer parks looking for gems, you better go somewhere that has a whole lot of trailer parks.

            Colombia has plenty.But my point is to go wherever there are many eligible women that are approachable. Colombia has that also. But to go there looking to get access to the "upper strata" just because you are a gringo is ridiculous.To be honest I had difficulty being around these people and keeping a straight face. It was simply because of this:Do you know what you call upper strata people  from Colombia when they come to the US? Middle Class with a snobby attitude. Sorry but I don't find an elitist attitude attractive in a woman.

             And just a side note: I never said anything about waiving money at poor women to get them to throw themselves at you. You have obviously never looked for a wife in a place like Colombia with a perception like that but if you have I can see why you didn't have any success there.It's silly to leave one country where a good woman is scarce just to go to another and limit yourself even more on finding a good woman. It's that simple.

                     Researcher  

[fathertime]

i understand Researcher's and Jeff's point of view here....

for me i would not travel to troll for the 'scarce prey'  because  i am not interested in adjusting my lifestyle in that direction and i don't imagine penetrating that inner circle in colombia would be something that can be done in the short stays i normally partook in....there are lots of pretty and sincere gals, who want to do right by there man...for me that is much of what is necessary....other men must have additional requirements, which is the individual man's choice...the way Jeff states his interest in his wife seems reasonable, i've read others that have expressed their upper strata lady in elitist type terms, which seems to come at the expensive of the other ladies and is a lot less palatable.

i don't see why terms like trailer parks and average ladies are being used in this conversation, when there are far better (and more accurate) ways of describing the AVERAGE jajaaj ladies many of us have chosen for a wife.  i imagine using the 'silver spoon' description would be an inaccurate in the description of the wealthy ladies, i'm sure there are some nice ladies (scarce prey) that are good wives that come from big money...

btw: the graphics are hilarious!
Fathertime! 

[Researcher]

         Hey FT, I can see Jeff's point if you are talking in terms of the whole world but I am talking about Colombia. I still don't get some guys deal with the upper strata. I have been to that mountain and was not impressed. I'm sure it is different in Japan and if the upper crust is what one desires then maybe Japan or Europe would be a better choice.Going to a third world country and looking for a high class chick is like going to McDonald's and looking for caviar.It doesn't make sense. If you want a high class broad then go where they are plentiful.


           Researcher

[Jeff S]

Well, both Researcher and I were exaggerating to make a point - more for fun than everything else. (trailer trash and solver spoons and all of that.) Yes, I have dated in Latin America - a lot - back in my single days - many years ago. Times may have changed considerably since the internet has become, but back then, your "average" Latina maybe had a 4th grade education and knew nothing about anything of the world outside how far she could take a bus for a few pesos. Those with college degrees, those who could intelligently discuss anything besides how to grind corn the right way were the upper crust - the elite. I was more interested in a life partner than I was in taking on a project - one that had an unsure conclusion.

My intent here was to go against the grain of underlying theme (on the Asian board too) that says in order to find a good women, you have to go to the third world and find women untainted by Western civilization then use your rock start status of a US passport and fat wallet, to attract as many as you can, sort through the lot, then take one home to train her right. The truth is that many of the successes here (on both boards) are guys who found intelligent, "upper crust" women who don't need to be taught how to get by in the modern world, and can start contributing to the family as an equal partner. Hey, if you're a simple guy living a simple rural life, you ought to find yourself a simple rural girl, and enjoy life. Nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more out of a life partner.

[fathertime]

Hey, if you're a simple guy living a simple rural life, you ought to find yourself a simple rural girl, and enjoy life. Nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more out of a life partner.

well Jeff, i found myself agreeing with everything until your last sentence.  I think you should have substituted "Different" in there rather than 'more'...
i don't agree that a simple rural girl is doing any less than a upper crust girl, unless, helping scoop manure, milking cows, and collecting the hen's eggs , while tending to kids, is considered less...  

Fathertime!

[Jeff S]

OK - that's better - a different skill set - one that is complimentary to your lifestyle. I meant more than a maid and sex partner.

[utopiacowboy]

Each to his own. I seriously doubt that virtue is only found among the lower classes.

[dennislevy]

Colombia is a class conscious society...that is a no brainer.

Class is based on family, wealth, at times a job or type of business...and race. And many trigueñas or blancas or morenas do not want to date negros.

More then once Ive been asked by a blanca or trigueña lover, if I had dated negras.

And my response is aways diplomatic...ah I ve had two ore three dates with negras...but never more then a first date.

As Ive said my response is..... diplomatic.

I havent dated many women from the uppermost strata of Colombian society.....perhaps three or four and they were in Bogota. They were mature women in the late 40s or early 50s.

One was a lawyer, who I think is still one of the chief adies to the Governor of Cundinamarca, she is also now a member of Colombia s House of representatives.

And another was a pale paisa from Medellin (then she was 48) who had lived in Bogota for many years, in her 20s she had lived and worked in Canada and spoke excellent English. With her father, she owns a factory in Bogota and employs 120 people. She owns a lovely home in Bogota near Bolivar Commercial Mall and was extremely friendly and attentive.

But she wanted me only to be partly in her life.....She introduced me to her best female friend but never to her father.  She always wanted to be home by 12 30 AM to say good night to her adolescent kids  and the lady would not go south of 122nd in bogota which I certainly thought was an elitist attitude.  She never came to my apartment in Quinta Paredes, her story was that she was afraid she would be car jacked.

So after 4 weeks of Friday or Saturday nights of making love and room service dinners in an elegant small hotel in North Bogota...I said enough....and she was disappointed. She was one of the classiest, most attractive smartest women I ve  met ANYWHERE and she wasnt a high end orderer in restaurants or demanding...only that she wanted to have a relationship ON HER TERMS WITH HER LIMITS.  

She asked me to be patient and said...maybe in 5 years when the kids are older and out of the house, things can change. And of course...the kid s father had taken offsome years before and wasn t  in contact .....and that s not a surprise on any level of Colombian society

I couldn t argue with her because she was completley honest, I just told her that I didn t have 5 years to wait...and if I spent any more time with her I would be more frustrated and that was true.

She had EVERYTHING I was looking for except the motivation. A great woman!
      

[utopiacowboy]

A question to you, Dennis, in your experience, were the paisas the most race conscious?

[AndyLee]

A question to you, Dennis, in your experience, were the paisas the most race conscious?

I'm looking forward to Dennis' answer, too, given his earlier remarks about one date only with black women.
In my own experience, in the meantime, I went to Cartagena one time to meet a woman I had been writing to on Cupid. Our first day together we went to the beach and she wore a long sleeve tee over her bikini so she wouldn't "darken". She insisted throughout the day there was no Negro blood in her family. I was a little amused by this, since she had the dark skin, nose and lips features common to African heritage, so it was a long stretch for me to believe she didn't have any in her ancestry. Nonetheless she was a fun date and we had a good time together. I come across her picture from time to time in my photo file and chuckle when I remember how insistent she was about the color thing.

[Zon]

My comment about upper strata women suggests achieving a social position that is simply "not limited to a particular type of women."   Look, there is NO question that women from a poorer class are HIGHLY MOTIVATED to meet a gringo - or, more preferably a narco in many cases.   Do not dilute yourself to think otherwise.

Obviously, there are "good girls" from lower stratas and middle stratus.  I judge women if they are sincere, trustworthy, and TRY.   

I would not say such an attraction is UNREAL, but it does not translate to a first world / modern culture without significant risks.  Should be obvious!

Over the last couple days I have traveled from Medellin to Cali, and I must say to amplify my position upthread, that it is AMAZINGLY easy to meet ALL kinds of women in Colombia.  And, again improved language skills make a HUGE difference when meeting people.  I have found especially with the educated and the business class, that pleasantries and curiosities in English quickly wear off.  Without an ability to at least "hang in there" with comprehension and simple responses, you become a social liability.

[dennislevy]

Zon,

I would never want you to water down your on line personality!
I think you meant to say delude, not dilute...jejejejejeje....

Andy and UC
As I said, my response to the question of whether i had dated negras was ...DIPLOMATIC. I answered that I never had more then one date with a negra...and that was a DIPLOMATIC answer to a trigueña or blanca.  

I ve been intimate with several negras in Colombia, as I ve said...at this point in my life, thank God..... I m color blind.
But to tell that to that current trigueña or morena that I had had negra lovers......I might as have  well put hot water in the bathtub, and lie down in it with a straight edge razor!

I cant give a categorical answer to the are pasias more racist question......I can only give you my experience

I didnt date many paisas when I lived in medellin, I had extended relationships with a morena (who was a novia) and a blanca (who wanted to be my novia), and maybe 3 or four other first dates. Obviously, I knew the two women very well and talked  extensively with them. Both women are mature professional women, never married, no kids, both live with their  families, both classy well educated women they are now 54 and 50 years old.....and they would never go out with a black man, they made that clear.

And their reason was they thout black men had no manners or values and they smelled!

And of course those are stereotypes about negras!  

[dennislevy]

This is a sensitive topic, admitted. Im trying to be objective, but its really just my opinion based on a very small sampling of Colombian women!!!!!!