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Author Topic: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage  (Read 1379 times)

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Offline Calipro

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The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« on: September 03, 2017, 05:19:32 PM »
http://nypost.com/2014/11/11/the-bigger-the-age-gap-the-shorter-the-marriage/


Recently read a study (not the article above) that showed men who married women that were significantly younger than them....10 or more years..... showed more marital satisfaction that men who married women close to their own age or older women. And the women showed the same marital satisfaction increase if they were married to a younger man.


If I remember correctly a 10 year age difference increased you odds of divorce by 43 percent, 20 years by 75 percent and 30 years or more by 173 percent.


I'm assuming that these were all marriages from developed countries where women can easily gain meaningful employment.


But did we really need a study to tell us that marrying an older woman would lessen chances of a divorce.....and does anybody really care. jajaja

Offline Elexpatriado

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 08:05:18 AM »
Well 30 years they dont have to wait as long for you to croak.,,anyways..

Offline Calipro

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 11:44:36 AM »
Well 30 years they dont have to wait as long for you to croak.,,anyways..


There just is no good reason to marry an older woman or any woman that isn't going to have your children.


I admit.....I married women that I liked a lot.....just so I could live with them while was working my ass off in the states. That's a reason to get married....just not a very good one considering the potential pitfalls of divorce.....I really don't know how I got so lucky....never having ended up in divorce court.


There is a 25 year age difference between me and my current girlfriend and I'm certainly happier with her than I would be with any woman near my own age.


She just got the first embryo transferred into her this morning.....I think we find out in about two weeks if she is pregnant.


I don't plan on bringing her to the states until I'm 62.....at which time she will be eligible for social security child in care benefits of about $2700.00 US a month. If we divorce she won't be getting that.


Already spelled it out for her.....there won't be a divorce if we have a child and even if the the relationship goes south....we will both maintain a home for the child. And my kid will never live in a home with another man other than me.


If she doesn't honor our agreement....I'll make damn sure she never sees a dime of my money while she is alive or after my death.


I have an irrevocable trust setup in the states....and was wondering if they have something similar in
Colombia.

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 11:44:36 AM »

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2017, 03:34:28 PM »
http://nypost.com/2014/11/11/the-bigger-the-age-gap-the-shorter-the-marriage/


Recently read a study (not the article above) that showed men who married women that were significantly younger than them....10 or more years..... showed more marital satisfaction that men who married women close to their own age or older women. And the women showed the same marital satisfaction increase if they were married to a younger man.

If I remember correctly a 10 year age difference increased you odds of divorce by 43 percent, 20 years by 75 percent and 30 years or more by 173 percent.

I'm assuming that these were all marriages from developed countries where women can easily gain meaningful employment.

But did we really need a study to tell us that marrying an older woman would lessen chances of a divorce.....and does anybody really care. jajaja

I saw the same or a very similar study on the relationship of age gap to likelihood for divorce (i.e., chance for divorce increase as the age gap grows).

There are also studies showing international marriages have lower divorce rates than purely domestic ones. Though as you pointed out...the lady from a less developed country will likely have fewer options for meaningful employment. That helps keep things from falling apart.

Offline Hector_Lavoe

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2017, 03:45:17 PM »

There is a 25 year age difference between me and my current girlfriend and I'm certainly happier with her than I would be with any woman near my own age.

I don't plan on bringing her to the states until I'm 62.....at which time she will be eligible for social security child in care benefits of about $2700.00 US a month. If we divorce she won't be getting that.

Yeah, 25 years is about the max I'd want to push it. My "ideal" age gap used to be 15 years but as I've gotten older that has proven to be more of a guideline than a rule.

So you plan on raising your kid for the first 5 to 10 years in Colombia?


She just got the first embryo transferred into her this morning.....I think we find out in about two weeks if she is pregnant.

Wish you and her the best as you pursue this milestone. You've known her for quite a while and that should work in your favor over the long run.

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2017, 05:51:38 PM »

There just is no good reason to marry an older woman or any woman that isn't going to have your children.


I admit.....I married women that I liked a lot.....just so I could live with them while was working my ass off in the states. That's a reason to get married....just not a very good one considering the potential pitfalls of divorce.....I really don't know how I got so lucky....never having ended up in divorce court.


There is a 25 year age difference between me and my current girlfriend and I'm certainly happier with her than I would be with any woman near my own age.


She just got the first embryo transferred into her this morning.....I think we find out in about two weeks if she is pregnant.


I don't plan on bringing her to the states until I'm 62.....at which time she will be eligible for social security child in care benefits of about $2700.00 US a month. If we divorce she won't be getting that.


Already spelled it out for her.....there won't be a divorce if we have a child and even if the the relationship goes south....we will both maintain a home for the child. And my kid will never live in a home with another man other than me.


If she doesn't honor our agreement....I'll make damn sure she never sees a dime of my money while she is alive or after my death.


I have an irrevocable trust setup in the states....and was wondering if they have something similar in
Colombia.

While you might roll over in your grave, If she's in the states, once she's over age 60 and even if she's your EX wife, she can collect from YOUR social security if you're dead. I'd imagine as long as any child for whom you're the father is still in at least secondary school in the USA, that child can collect 75% of your S.S.

It's a complex set up and  I'm not a social security lawyer, but I've heard that even if you've been taxed the maximum amount social security can tax, and that's calculated on no less than 35 years of earnings at the highest income/SS withholding rate,  you can't even draw $2700 a month.

Maybe you have a special arrangement, but I've been thinking about retiring before age 60 myself and was looking at how things might pan out down the line, including when to collect social security.

FWIW, I've had people FROM SS tell me personally that if I collected SS at age 62 and had a twin brother who waited until he was past age 67 to collect, it wouldn't be until we were age 78 that the amount of SS he waited to collect would start to skew in his favor.

I'd rather have that money while I can still dance in Spain, eat pasta in Rome, etc.

And they'll also tell you that while genetics, more precisely longevity, does effect how much an individual collects, that by and large, most people end up collecting about the same total sum of money overall, regardless. I'm sure as hell not going to wait too long.
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Offline Calipro

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 08:54:07 PM »
While you might roll over in your grave, If she's in the states, once she's over age 60 and even if she's your EX wife, she can collect from YOUR social security if you're dead. I'd imagine as long as any child for whom you're the father is still in at least secondary school in the USA, that child can collect 75% of your S.S.

It's a complex set up and  I'm not a social security lawyer, but I've heard that even if you've been taxed the maximum amount social security can tax, and that's calculated on no less than 35 years of earnings at the highest income/SS withholding rate,  you can't even draw $2700 a month.

Maybe you have a special arrangement, but I've been thinking about retiring before age 60 myself and was looking at how things might pan out down the line, including when to collect social security.

FWIW, I've had people FROM SS tell me personally that if I collected SS at age 62 and had a twin brother who waited until he was past age 67 to collect, it wouldn't be until we were age 78 that the amount of SS he waited to collect would start to skew in his favor.

I'd rather have that money while I can still dance in Spain, eat pasta in Rome, etc.

And they'll also tell you that while genetics, more precisely longevity, does effect how much an individual collects, that by and large, most people end up collecting about the same total sum of money overall, regardless. I'm sure as hell not going to wait too long.

You are right about the 2700 that would be what I would get if I started collecting social security  at age 70 not 67 and that would be 15 years from now .... so these figures are just estimates

There is a book that explains everything in great detail called get what's yours social security


https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Secrets-Security/dp/1511321075


The only way a wife can collect our social security is if you were married to her for ten or more years or you die while married to her assuming you have been married at least 9 months before you death.


After reading the book above I got my Dad to remarry my mother before he died and she got a 600 hundred dollar a month boost in her social security check because of it.


Most of the strategies in the book have to do with married couples. Holding off to collect social security just to get a yearly increase of 8 percent might not seem like much when you have to live to 78 just to break even.....but what about your wife that may be many years younger than you who will collect that reduced benefit for many many years after you are dead.


Many of the strategies are geared more toward maximizing the total benefit paid on your work record rather than maximizing what YOU will get just by yourself.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 12:55:44 AM by Calipro »

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 07:16:07 PM »
You are right about the 2700 that would be what I would get if I started collecting social security  at age 70 not 67 and that would be 15 years from now .... so these figures are just estimates

There is a book that explains everything in great detail called get what's yours social security


https://www.amazon.com/Get-Whats-Yours-Secrets-Security/dp/1511321075


The only way a wife can collect our social security is if you were married to her for ten or more years or you die while married to her assuming you have been married at least 9 months before you death.


After reading the book above I got my Dad to remarry my mother before he died and she got a 600 hundred dollar a month boost in her social security check because of it.


Most of the strategies in the book have to do with married couples. Holding off to collect social security just to get a yearly increase of 8 percent might not seem like much when you have to live to 78 just to break even.....but what about your wife that may be many years younger than you who will collect that reduced benefit for many many years after you are dead.


Many of the strategies are geared more toward maximizing the total benefit paid on your work record rather than maximizing what YOU will get just by yourself.

Thanks for the info, man. While I've got a while yet and the rules can change, it never hurts to get a leg  up on the current game. Ordered the book on ebay for a whopping dollar, postage a few bucks more. Knowledge is power!

Good luck on the bambino situation and life in general!!
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Offline DRGUY1

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 09:03:31 AM »


It's a complex set up and  I'm not a social security lawyer, but I've heard that even if you've been taxed the maximum amount social security can tax, and that's calculated on no less than 35 years of earnings at the highest income/SS withholding rate,  you can't even draw $2700 a month.






You can actually max out at just over $3500 per month in 2017 dollars if you were to retire now. I'm scheduled to make roughly $3200 when I retire (in today's dollars)...SS simply adds up all of your income over your top earning 35 years and divides that number 420 with a formula to adjust inflation...They do take your best 35 years, so if you work beyond 35 it will replace the early years with the better performing years from the latter part of your life...Im currently in year 32 and 2018 will be year 33

Offline DRGUY1

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 09:09:13 AM »


Most of the strategies in the book have to do with married couples. Holding off to collect social security just to get a yearly increase of 8 percent might not seem like much when you have to live to 78 just to break even.....but what about your wife that may be many years younger than you who will collect that reduced benefit for many many years after you are dead.



Thats correct CP...There is a benefit to drawing early at 62 or 63 and not waiting until the full retirement age and some of the wisest investment people I have met have told me it makes sense... I can explain more if anyone's interested, but basically the breakeven point for most people is 16 years later from 62 to 78 or more....Plus you need more money when your younger and more active not when your 78 or 79....Just some food for thought.


Offline Cherub

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 05:37:03 PM »
RobertAngel has pointed out there really isn´t a monetary benefit to waiting beyond 62. Especially when you consider the enhanced lifestyle you can have at 62 compared to 72.
I retired at 60 and started collecting social security at 62. Now I´m 70 and I´ve created a lifetime of wonderful memories in the past 10 years. I´m living the good life with my younger girlfriends in Colombia while my friends who chose to wait it out till 72 continue to work and feel miserable in the dreary climate of the northeast USA.
If I made a monetary mistake taking early retirement I sure made up for it by enjoying the dickens out of my life here in Colombia. I wouldn´t trade the past 10 years of fun for the extra money I would have gotten if I stayed working to 72.
 

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 07:53:18 PM »
It's such a convuluted SS system and your financial situation can make the decision even more difficult. This isn't the exact schedule in terms of extra months, the time you wait and therefore add onto the amount of SS you'll get for the rest of your life that I'm quoting, but the logic (really the LACK of obvious logic) holds.

 I'm too lazy now to pull it up right now, however it's available online from the Fed. Govt. But it does reflect and defy logic that you can actually take MORE home every month for life if you start collecting SS, say for example, at 62 years and THREE months than if you start collecting at 62 years and FOUR months---yes, it's crazy how they have it set up, but applying a month earlier once past age 62 can, according to the month, make a a slight +  difference, rather than waiting just one month longer. Silly, I know.

So there are little, unexpectededly inexplicable details on the (present) SS calendar, benefit paid schedule, to the point where I wonder if licking a stamp and getting my application to begin collecting by the end of a given month, only to find out it got there later--by the first of the next month, might cost me a pizza a month for the rest of my life!

The (presently) available 'start and stop' strategy for collecting SS within a 12 month or less period, then stopping collecting, works for a few, and your marital situation can also effect how your options  pan out. Several variables, although the playing field changes, as the govt. tries to make out better.

But the SS people saying (in person to me, more than once) that basically those with the same earnings history who collect at age 62 VS those who wait until age 67, that they both will actually draw the same amount of money up until age 78, is compelling.

I think I'm more inclined to get the money earlier, while I can still dance on solid legs and eat great food with my own teeth in exotic locales. When I'm 78, I'll probably be more inclined towards staying home and spending money spoiling my future grandkids. God willing, built in cost of living increases over those years, will mitigate other factors.

That and the SS office telling me in less exact terms: " Be it age 62 or 70 you start collecting SS or how long you live, pretty much everyone with the same earnings history ends up collecting about the same amount of money on average by the time they die" that again tilts the argument a bit towards drawing SS earlier.

All that said, if the stock market is still skirting 22,000 or better, I might pull some $$$$ out of that as a little stop gap measure between me drawing retirement and beginning SS. It's not like I'll stI'll be paying a chunk TO SS, so in the meantime, I can afford to wait a little bit, see the eventual SS benefit increase a decent bit yearly, w/o cramping our lifestyle.

Except for stocks, my retirement moneys by and large are set up so in a manner so that in the (presently very unlikely) advent of a divorce, they are not divisible at all --not subject to the dreaded QDRO division.

But stocks, IRAs, property gains and more, those ARE divisible---While the market will go up and down, I don't expect it to keep climbing for that much longer, I see the present bubble popping, another 'correction' as inevitable. While I still have a son in University and a mortgage, I can maximize my tax situation (deductions) and spend the kid's inheritance early LOL. Just trying to minimize risk all around.

That and considering the one time only capital gains tax exemption you can get, selling your house and keeping all the proceeds tax free, that's appealing, an available 'hedge' if needed for some. Just remember, you can only use that trick once..

My wife's fine about us selling the house, moving to a lower maintainance condo, town house, even an apartment in our same neighborhood, with same access to the malls, movie theaters, markets (actually closer) to the pool, tennis, gym. No lawn care, not waiting to replace garage doors, appliances, heat and air unit, no high property taxes, lower 'amenity fees'.

Really, she'd love a high rise condo in the swank, metro Buckhead, Atlanta--so much fun and things to do. I'd love that too, but ya can't have it all!

I am now more thankful for the things I DON'T have, like illness, chronic pain, debt, fear of crime, a pain in the ass, fat ugly wife, than I am am thankful for THINGS, i.e. material possessions. I'm glad I have some of those 'things'--but after a while, I'm at a point where I'm feeling more and more like the material 'things' were coming to own me,  instead of vice versa. Keeping up a big house, a boat, cars, watching 'the help'--if we had hired help (we don't) can be a PITA.

It's far, far cheaper for me to rent a nice  boat several times a year or pay a fishing guide and use his, than it is to still have my own boat, store it,  keep it maintained...

Less 'things' leaves more time and money for our little home in her country and for traveling all around.

That and cut the TV cable and go with an HDTV antenna and (maybe)  ROKU, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu or better yet, just create our own VPN and using a black box, get every paid TV source for free--there's a ton of cheaper options. Thank God we don't have to make any big changes, but there's a number of ways we can reduce expenses. I'm not paying for my son's unlimited data and iPhones forever!!!!

Time to think about shifting gears, about reassessing priorities. We're not rich, but I've earned my 'cheese' and I'm not about to work too much longer in the rat race, just to try and make a bigger piece,  meanwhile risking dropping dead on the job or stroking out and being locked in my house, an invalid and burden to my wonderful wife.
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Offline Cherub

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 07:59:53 PM »
Time to think about shifting gears, about reassessing priorities. We're not rich, but I've earned my 'cheese' and I'm not about to work too much longer in the rat race, just to try and make a bigger piece,  meanwhile risking dropping dead on the job or stroking out and being locked in my house, an invalid and burden to my wonderful wife.


Yep, sums it up for me, too. My ex father in law worked 50 years to get the gold watch and waited till 72 to get the bigger SS check. He dropped dead while mowing the lawn six months later. Just one example.

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 07:59:53 PM »

Offline Calipro

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 12:21:00 AM »

Yep, sums it up for me, too. My ex father in law worked 50 years to get the gold watch and waited till 72 to get the bigger SS check. He dropped dead while mowing the lawn six months later. Just one example.


Some people look at the bigger picture.....if you ex father in law was married when he died....his widow will collect the bigger death benefit until the day she dies.

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 08:49:16 AM »

Some people look at the bigger picture.....if you ex father in law was married when he died....his widow will collect the bigger death benefit until the day she dies.
 

Yes, but he'd still be dead. Dead broke....
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Offline DRGUY1

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 10:00:33 AM »

Yep, sums it up for me, too. My ex father in law worked 50 years to get the gold watch and waited till 72 to get the bigger SS check. He dropped dead while mowing the lawn six months later. Just one example.


This probably deserves its own thread, but the work all your life to collect the gold watch and SS payment is bunch of crap we've been sold...I have no intentions of working beyond 53 or 54....Why would you want to work that long and not be able to fully enjoy your retirement and travel as an active and fit person--while you still can....


If you plan correctly, you should be able to retire early to bridge yourself to 59.5 for 401k and then to 62 or 67 for Social Security. I will enjoy a second life in my early 50' and 60'S living in another culture, and traveling as a second career/life.


When I say work, I'm talking about the corporate jobs or demanding jobs some of us have...I do understand it may be different for people who work for themselves and have flexibility and time to do things and travel, to me that's semi retirement already when you have that flexibility.


Here's how you do it, buy 1 or 2 houses on 15 year terms (so your paying mostly principal), rent them out and pay them off early (extra payment each year) and then you can live off the rental income the rest of your life...That's what I did.


And you also always have a house to come back to when your finished living oversea's...Now with Air BnB you have even more options to fund yourself.


Offline benjio

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 10:45:58 AM »

This probably deserves its own thread, but the work all your life to collect the gold watch and SS payment is bunch of crap we've been sold...I have no intentions of working beyond 53 or 54....Why would you want to work that long and not be able to fully enjoy your retirement and travel as an active and fit person--while you still can....


If you plan correctly, you should be able to retire early to bridge yourself to 59.5 for 401k and then to 62 or 67 for Social Security. I will enjoy a second life in my early 50' and 60'S living in another culture, and traveling as a second career/life.


When I say work, I'm talking about the corporate jobs or demanding jobs some of us have...I do understand it may be different for people who work for themselves and have flexibility and time to do things and travel, to me that's semi retirement already when you have that flexibility.


Here's how you do it, buy 1 or 2 houses on 15 year terms (so your paying mostly principal), rent them out and pay them off early (extra payment each year) and then you can live off the rental income the rest of your life...That's what I did.


And you also always have a house to come back to when your finished living oversea's...Now with Air BnB you have even more options to fund yourself.


DRGUY,


Excellent post! You and I have a lot of the same ideas. I'm 36 now but if the market allows I'll be done by the time I'm 50. I lost one of my rental properties in the recent storm but I'm going to rebuild even bigger and better. Real Estate is really the only sure thing anymore. I don't even plan on collecting social security. If it does exist and is still paying out when I get to that age I guess it'll be my fun money.  ;D 8)

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 11:20:09 AM »

This probably deserves its own thread, but the work all your life to collect the gold watch and SS payment is bunch of crap we've been sold...I have no intentions of working beyond 53 or 54....Why would you want to work that long and not be able to fully enjoy your retirement and travel as an active and fit person--while you still can....


If you plan correctly, you should be able to retire early to bridge yourself to 59.5 for 401k and then to 62 or 67 for Social Security. I will enjoy a second life in my early 50' and 60'S living in another culture, and traveling as a second career/life.


When I say work, I'm talking about the corporate jobs or demanding jobs some of us have...I do understand it may be different for people who work for themselves and have flexibility and time to do things and travel, to me that's semi retirement already when you have that flexibility.


Here's how you do it, buy 1 or 2 houses on 15 year terms (so your paying mostly principal), rent them out and pay them off early (extra payment each year) and then you can live off the rental income the rest of your life...That's what I did.


And you also always have a house to come back to when your finished living oversea's...Now with Air BnB you have even more options to fund yourself.

Working many years for the same place and collecting a gold watch is definitely history. Used to be if you had a substance abuse problem or even domestic issues with your wife, they told you to '"Go home, get your life straight, then come back--just don't let it happen again."

Nowadays in the workplace, most of us are just warm bodies, capable of being replaced, or 'out sourced'. Not just not valued, but disposable. Thirty years with the same outfit, not a single bad obsrervation/ evaluation ever, no 'write ups' and plenty of accolades and none of that would save me from the long knives. You screw up once or they just don't like you anymore and you're gone. Non union state...

I've seen corporate managers with close to 30 years, guys in their early 50's, get let go in December--it's a smarter tax move than 'letting them go' in January. You could have 28 very good years, then the company has a problem and you're gone. I warn my sons:

"Today, working for a big company, It's like you're a pro baseball pitcher who's pitched 7 no hit innings, then in the 8th, gives up 4 runs and he's gone--and so will you be---except YOU won't be back for another game".

Unfortunately, the age of pensions is almost history in the private sector--far, far less employers offer them than ever before.

Millions of non professionals are not paid a wage that adjusted for inflation, matches what their father's made. Many live pretty much pay check to pay check and even if they didn't have credit card debt, lack the savvy, the wherewithal to invest in an interest bearing CD or bank savings account, never mind a house.

The money and the discipline are often both lacking.

Companies that offer any plan geared to retirement, have often moved to offering voluntary, preselected 401 and 403 IRA plans, often picking terrible performers and if they even do match the employee's contributions, may greatly vary the amount they do match, according to how they view their company's profits.

The average 'joe' has a lot harder time investing in the stock market in an age where the largest firms execute billions of trades a day, making perhaps a fraction of a cent on each, on trades, sales, buys, currency fluctuations etc., but the billions of small profits add up and they have technology to incredibly quickly execute them a lot faster than you can say 'call Charles Schwabb'.

A kid with a few darts, throwing them at the stock page out of the Wall Street Journal and investing in the stocks the darts hit, typically makes a better return on investment than the 'picks' most brokerages choose.

Apple can have a decent increase in sales and the stock goes down because it wasn't enough. The stock market acts like a spooked horse on methamphetamines.

Used to be you could walk into place like Target or buy a Chevrolet and say ' I like this, I have a hunch it's a good stock to buy" and you were probably right. But today, these companies are invested into so many different products and operations all over the world, that it's hard to tell where their bottom line starts and stops.

So the economy, the prospects for retiring , the options available, for more and more Americans, is not nearly as promising as it was a generation ago.

I think that people are slowly turning things around and saving more for the future, but that's still not a clear trend and the future of Social Security of and by itself, doesn't look too promising as a sole source of retirement, not now, nor in the future.

Yes, if you've got the smarts and make the right moves with the cash you have, you can still come out alright for retirement, and if you've got the cash and especially if you're good with maintainance and repairs, property is still a winner.

Through all the changes in how the economy historically has worked, from the depression, recessions, the gold standard to basically no checks on how much money's printed, property has been about the only constant. Seems the banks got into a bit of trouble lending money a while back to 'sub prime' candidates, but the rich will get richer. When the USA declares bankruptcy, if the USD no longer is the world's 'reserve currency,' gold and silver will probably mean less as they have little true utility, but property will still fare better.

But overall for here and now, it's a lot different and more difficult than it used to be to secure a stable financial future for most people..
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 01:04:40 PM by robert angel »
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Offline Cherub

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 06:08:09 PM »
I can offer a word of caution about real estate investing. I started when I was 20 buying my first house and paying a mortgage instead of rent. It was a VA foreclosure for $13,000. Terrible condition. I lived in it with my wife and two little babies while remodeling it. A year later sold it for $20,000 and put the profits into a new house in a town nearby. Bought the new house unfinished and spent two years finishing, landscaping, fencing, gardens, and sold for a really good profit.
Kept doing that until we had the house we wanted. Then started all over again with rental houses and flippers. Life was good, until 2007. I owned a $400,000 house with a $300,000 mortgages, 10 houselots in a small subdivision just outside of town and 5 rental houses in town. When the 2007-2008 real estate collapse happened prices in my state plummeted overnight by 50% for houses and 75% for houselots. The bank wound up with my house and rentals and the other bank wound up with my houselots. I went from a really nice monthly income to being underwater within about 6 months. I was close enough to retirement that I waited it out and jumped on the SS wagon. Thank god SS was there, its my savior. Just an example. Real estate prices had been going up since the Civil War. Who knew they would cave in that quickly?

Offline ignorante

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 08:18:57 AM »

Millions of non professionals are not paid a wage that adjusted for inflation, matches what their father's made. Many live pretty much pay check to pay check and even if they didn't have credit card debt, lack the savvy, the wherewithal to invest in an interest bearing CD or bank savings account, never mind a house.

The money and the discipline are often both lacking.

Discipline?  Yes.
Money?  No.

The average hourly wage has stayed roughly the same, after inflation, for five decades now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/


The difference is that people spend, spend, spend.  Take real estate, as an example.  In 1950, the average home was 1100 square feet and had no garage.  That family had one car, or no car.


The average home today is more than twice that size and has a two car garage that you can't park two cars in because the family has purchased so much crap with credit cards that it has no place to store it all.  So the crap goes in the garage and cars get parked outside.  Cars, plural.  With car payments.


Your grandparents just did not live like that.  They saved.


Today, people do not budget and do not save.  The blame cannot be placed on lower income because income is not lower.  People today are simply less responsible and spend more.  WAY more.

Offline Cherub

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 10:44:55 AM »
Discipline?  Yes.
Money?  No.

The average hourly wage has stayed roughly the same, after inflation, for five decades now.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/


The difference is that people spend, spend, spend.  Take real estate, as an example.  In 1950, the average home was 1100 square feet and had no garage.  That family had one car, or no car.


The average home today is more than twice that size and has a two car garage that you can't park two cars in because the family has purchased so much crap with credit cards that it has no place to store it all.  So the crap goes in the garage and cars get parked outside.  Cars, plural.  With car payments.


Your grandparents just did not live like that.  They saved.


Today, people do not budget and do not save.  The blame cannot be placed on lower income because income is not lower.  People today are simply less responsible and spend more.  WAY more.
Agreed and agreed. My first house was less than 1000 square feet with wife and two babies and sold after complete remodeling for $20,000.
Average new house in 2017 is 2661 square feet and sells for about $350,000. Average family has 2.53 people.

Offline benjio

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2017, 08:18:19 AM »
I can offer a word of caution about real estate investing. I started when I was 20 buying my first house and paying a mortgage instead of rent. It was a VA foreclosure for $13,000. Terrible condition. I lived in it with my wife and two little babies while remodeling it. A year later sold it for $20,000 and put the profits into a new house in a town nearby. Bought the new house unfinished and spent two years finishing, landscaping, fencing, gardens, and sold for a really good profit.
Kept doing that until we had the house we wanted. Then started all over again with rental houses and flippers. Life was good, until 2007. I owned a $400,000 house with a $300,000 mortgages, 10 houselots in a small subdivision just outside of town and 5 rental houses in town. When the 2007-2008 real estate collapse happened prices in my state plummeted overnight by 50% for houses and 75% for houselots. The bank wound up with my house and rentals and the other bank wound up with my houselots. I went from a really nice monthly income to being underwater within about 6 months. I was close enough to retirement that I waited it out and jumped on the SS wagon. Thank god SS was there, its my savior. Just an example. Real estate prices had been going up since the Civil War. Who knew they would cave in that quickly?


I only work with cash for that very reason. And even if I had the capital to do so I'd stay away from properties that valuable ($300K). I'm a landlord...not a flipper...looking for residual income, not an immediate return on investment. And I prefer Section 8 Housing so I don't really have to deal with tenants when it comes to getting paid. I'm not sure where you bought a $300K house but in Houston that's a freaking castle. If you're buying a house like that to flip it here, it probably has the potential to be worth a half a million if not more. But before you actually sell it you'd be looking at an enormous investment in property, remodeling costs, up keep (deed restrictions will probably require you to keep all utilities on and the landscaping maintained) that would just be sitting there until you found a buyer. Most people that can afford $500K houses here have them custom built from the ground up.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:33:21 AM by benjio »

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 09:59:18 AM »
So many people were buying houses, seeing them go up in value in a couple years, then moving up and up, with banks more than happy to loan money to just about anyone, that long before Fed Reserve Chairman Allen Greenspan called the mindset, the economic climate, one of "irrational exuberance", it's amazing (hindsight being 20 20) that we didn't see it coming.

We went from a culture where typically, a married couple bought a house and raised a family, keeping it for decades, eventually realizing a decent return on their long term investment, perhaps enhancing their retirement upon selling the now 'empty nest' to in the 90's and beyond, flipping houses like they were baseball cards.
 
And like a house made out of cards, when the big bad economic wolf cycle came back around, 'correcting' the irrationality, the 'house' collapsed.

Not saying I'm smarter. Even though my Father saw it coming (he also sold our house in Key West for 1.5 million three weeks ago) and besides me being too lazy to move, I am not handy at all on rehabbing properties. Putting their own 'sweat equity' into needy bomes is how 'handy' folks in my family have traditionally done it.

Meanwhile, I just opened my mail from those crooks at "Bank of America"--the corrupt organization the US govt. condemned but bailed out, saying they were "too big to fail' and my mortgage is $711 a month. I can live with that and the $45 a month 'amenities fee' for common ground landscaping, the walking distance pool, tennis, basketball and indoor gym.
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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2017, 09:59:18 AM »

Offline mambocowboy

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2017, 12:44:17 PM »

I only work with cash for that very reason. And even if I had the capital to do so I'd stay away from properties that valuable ($300K). I'm a landlord...not a flipper...looking for residual income, not an immediate return on investment. And I prefer Section 8 Housing so I don't really have to deal with tenants when it comes to getting paid. I'm not sure where you bought a $300K house but in Houston that's a freaking castle. If you're buying a house like that to flip it here, it probably has the potential to be worth a half a million if not more. But before you actually sell it you'd be looking at an enormous investment in property, remodeling costs, up keep (deed restrictions will probably require you to keep all utilities on and the landscaping maintained) that would just be sitting there until you found a buyer. Most people that can afford $500K houses here have them custom built from the ground up.
Jaja. $300k is a ticket to the hood in San Diego.... If you want a castle here its 2 million or more All relative i guess...

Offline robert angel

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Re: The bigger the age gap, the shorter the marriage
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2017, 04:55:24 PM »
Jaja. $300k is a ticket to the hood in San Diego.... If you want a castle here its 2 million or more All relative i guess...

And if you think THAT'S bad, there's always San Francisco, a city where aside from the crappy weather, I really can't grasp what the endless, positive 'buzz' about it's charm is all about, never mind the insane real estate prices.


Personally, I 'left my heart' in Kalamazoo,  Michigan,  with a little blond Belgian minx!
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