Back from Xiamen

[Capstone]

I have been back from my 3 month stay in China for about 3 weeks now but as soon as I got home I had to travel up to New Jersey to work for a couple of weeks and have not really had any time to post anything since returning until now.

 My wife and I did a bit of traveling within China during this past trip but for the most part we stayed in Xiamen and its outlying areas for most of the trip so that I could continue to work. Xiamen is a very nice coastal city in South Eastern China, located directly across the Strait from Taiwan – on a clear day you can sometimes see some of the outlying Taiwanese islands from the beach. Xiamen was one of the very first special economic zones that were created within China to implement/tryout all of the economic reforms which have since been introduced throughout all of China. As such, the economy and quality of life seems to be a bit better in Xiamen than in many other parts of China that I have been to. Most households (aged 50 & younger) in Xiamen now own at least one car – the population within the city is about 3 million (a small city by Chinese standards) but about 4,000 new cars are being registered there each month. So needless to say the traffic congestion there is fast becoming a problem.   

I really like visiting China and certainly enjoyed the 3 months that I spent there but at the same time I missed some things and was somewhat, yet not altogether, glad to return to the US. My wife and I do plan on buying an apartment in Xiamen in the future and will continue to make annual trips to visit while also considering the possibility of moving there on a permanent basis later on down the road.  I have decided to list what I consider to be Pros & Cons of living in China based upon my own personal observations & experiences which are confined mostly to urban areas. Of course others with different experiences may have different opinions but here is my 2 cents:

Pros 

Plentiful & Inexpensive Food – The ability to get a great meal at bargain prices is never more than a short walk away from wherever you might be. Xiamen, being a coastal city, has the extra benefit of the availability of super fresh seafood   - spicy squid being my personal favorite.

Affordable Rent – you can rent a nice apartment for a very reasonable price (but purchasing property is the exact opposite in the city).

Very Lively Lifestyle – The Chinese love to go out and do things every night of the week. The streets are always full of people no matter what time of the day or night. Friends & Family meet up regularly to socialize and have a good time. Example – my wife and I pretty much met up with someone for either dinner, a movie, Karaoke, drinks, etc every night that we were there. Meeting up for a late night  (11 or 12ish) second dinner is also quite common – many times we would meet someone for dinner, then go see a movie and then go to another restaurant for a second dinner (usually consisting of something light like fish). My wife and her friends will often times meet up at the spa to get their hair washed or their nails painted just to socialize – it costs less than $1 for a hair wash and about $3 for their nails. People are always on the go and don’t like to sit home (unless they are entertaining guests) – this appeals to me very much.

Family Security – Once you become a member of a Chinese family there is absolutely nothing that other family members are not willing to do for you. Family is the number one most important thing in China. My father-in-law has already tried to offer me money for the purpose of buying my wife and I an apartment in his neighborhood (which I of course refused).

Inexpensive Domestic Travel – the costs of traveling within China and to the neighboring countries are very reasonable. Chinese airlines are great with excellent service and the airfares are low. 5 star hotels can be had for $75-100/night while 3 & 4 star hotels can be had for much, much less.

Public Transportation is both inexpensive & plentiful. You can ride the bus for pennies and take a taxi to most anywhere within the city for a few dollars. 11RMB was the standard fare that I was paying for a taxi ride consisting of several miles, which is about $1.60. Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou (as well as Hong Kong of course) also have great subway systems that help you avoid all the traffic on the roads above.
 
Most Chinese are very friendly towards Americans. For the most part I have always been treated very well by everyone that I encountered in China – most people are very happy to meet and have the opportunity to speak with an American. Of course just like anywhere you are bound to come across an oddball from time to time but that has been very rare for me. 

Low Violent Crime – Despite the recent news reports of the string of knife attacks that have occurred lately, violent crime in China is still pretty rare. I have never felt unsafe walking anywhere late at night in the cities – I guess part of that is due to the fact that just about anywhere you go there is always a crowd. Now I understand that crimes such as pick pocketing is becoming more common in some of the cities in Guangdong Province such as Guangzhou & Shenzhen but I have been to both of those cities and just used a bit of extra caution and experienced no problems.   

600 Million Women – Need I say more!

Cons

Crowds and Lines – Basically no matter where you go in China there is always going to be a crowd and/or line with some pushing/shoving. It is something that you can pretty quickly accept & get used to as I did but I would probably consider it a con none the less.
 
Pollution –Even though Xiamen is widely recognized as the least polluted city in China, the smog can still get heavy at times. Other than the smog though the streets of Xiamen are very clean with a lot of landscaping, etc. Beijing on the other hand is off the scale when it comes to air pollution – I have been all over the world and have never experienced air pollution to the extent that I have in Beijing.  With a population that large in one city I don’t guess that there is much that they can really do about it though. 
 
Traffic Congestion – Other than in the outlying rural areas, traffic is really bad every place that I have been in China. Although the presence of good public transportation helps to take the edge off of this con, the problem is only getting worse as more & more cars hit the streets each month.

Housing Prices – Urban areas in China are currently experiencing a housing bubble, which in my opinion is ready to burst. Speculators have been gobbling up new apartments as fast as they can be built but then those apartments sit empty as they were purchased as investments without any intention of being used as a home by the original buyers. As such, housing prices in the cities are astronomical when compared to the average Chinese salary. We will definitely wait until the bubble bursts before buying an apartment. One benefit of this though is that apartments and shops can be rented for pretty reasonable prices because there are many more apartments & shops than what the normal Chinese can afford to buy  - supply currently exceeds demand when it comes to actual use of the properties.

Rock Hard Beds – unless you stay in a Western chain hotel (and still that is no guarantee) then chances are that you will be sleeping on a bed that has a rock hard mattress. I love very firm mattresses and have one on my bed at home but the mattresses in China are really hard for me to get used to. I will definitely buy a Western brand mattress when we do eventually buy an apartment there.

RMB will probably rise against the dollar – The Chinese have always been accused of currency manipulation and are currently under pressure from the US and other countries to allow the RMB to rise in value against the dollar. The Chinese are posturing and say they will not give into the pressure but I have little doubt that they will soon allow the RMB to rise in value against the dollar somewhat just as they did 5 or 6 years ago. This of course means that if/when that happens the dollar will not go as far as it currently does in China.  Currently the official exchange rate is about 6.81 yuan to the dollar and many people think that the Chinese will allow the RMB to rise to the extent of 4.5-5 yuan to the dollar.  Many people, including myself, have changed dollars for a cache of RMB in anticipation of this. I have transferred a pretty sizable chunk of my savings into my Chinese bank account thereby converting it into RMB. So I actually stand to make a pretty good bit of money if the RMB rises against the dollar but on the other hand my greenbacks won’t get me as far in China as they do now. But I guess this could also be considered a Pro instead of a Con for someone who may be working in China say as an English Teacher and getting paid in RMB – they will be able to cash out for more dollars when they are ready to return to the US.
 
Health Care – I don’t think that I would want to live in China if I had any serious medical conditions. Outside of the special foreign hospitals that they have in the larger cities (which also have western prices) the health care in China does not seem to be on par with that in the US. During this past trip we visited 2 of my wife’s friends in the hospital who had given birth and although the hospitals did not look bad, I just don’t think that the level of care that I would want to receive in a medical emergency exists there. Plus, no matter if you are dying or what, you have to pay for the treatment in advance with cash. The health care costs in China are a fraction of what they are in the US (not so though for things like an MRI, CT Scan, etc) but you have to pay cash up front. 

[jm21-2]

The rock hard beds would be really hard for me to deal with...I'm used to a really soft one. It's not quite as bad in Taiwan but still extremely firm by western standards, or they use a very slim mattress on the floor that seems more Japanese in nature. Most of the hotels/travel lodges seem to have more western style beds though. Not really sure why they want ultra-hard mattresses at home but when they go on vacation they want softer ones...would seem to indicate they prefer softer ones but then why not get one at home?

Housing bubble seems the same in Taiwan. In my GF's pretty small hometown we saw some signs for new construction starting at ~$400k USD. In Taipei and other big cities it seems ridiculous. I'm learning a bit more about it though and part of it makes a tiny bit of sense. Everyone wants to own their own business it seems like and the expensive properties are those on busier streets where you can run a business in the bottom floor (seems like all the houses here are 3+ stories). No zoning regulations as far as I can tell. So you're not just buying a house but a potential family business...there seem to be a huge number of family businesses. I didn't really think about that aspect of real estate when I was in China. Is it a similar kind of deal there do you think? It seemed like Chinese people were really interested in running their own business as well.

[Ethan14]

Interesting. It seems like a lot of the younger girls I've been talking to from the Philippines all want to "work for awhile (hopefully overseas) and then go back to the Philippines and start their own business (usually an internet cafe or something)". Is it just a cultural thing?

I don't think the economy can handle a business per person.

[piglett]

I think many of those ladies, once they are here for a while will decide to stay.
I think in most cases the pluses still out weigh the minuses,even if the economy here is
still not doing all that well at this point. Most of the younger ladies on FH have never
been any other place than where they live rite now. So that is at least for now the center of their entire world. In 5 or 10 years some of them with out a doubt will be married & have children & that will change their outlook on life. As you get older & have more life experiences you prospectives start to change & as far as i know they never stop changing.  

piglett  

[Ray]

Excellent report Cap!   



Ray

[Bob_S]

I don't think the economy can handle a business per person.

If you think about it, prior to the Industrial Revolution, that is how the economy worked.  However, 90% of those personal or family businesses were farms.  Not much room for so many farms in the cities.

But you're right.  Even in tech-savvy or web-happy Asia, I doubt any single city can sustain a few million net cafés. 

I think many of those ladies, once they are here for a while will decide to stay.
... Most of the younger ladies on FH have never been any other place than where they live rite now. So that is at least for now the center of their entire world. In 5 or 10 years some of them with out a doubt will be married & have children & that will change their outlook on life. As you get older & have more life experiences you prospectives start to change & as far as i know they never stop changing. 

Yep.  That narrow provincialism is what you get from someone in their early 20's with no real life experience.  I was there, once.  I grew up in San Diego county, went to college in that county, figured I'd get a job at one of the local bio-tech companies, live out my life and die there.  But fortunately, that's not what Fate had planned for me.

[jm21-2]

Interesting. It seems like a lot of the younger girls I've been talking to from the Philippines all want to "work for awhile (hopefully overseas) and then go back to the Philippines and start their own business (usually an internet cafe or something)". Is it just a cultural thing?

I don't think the economy can handle a business per person.

Running your own business seemed to be the thing in China, Thailand, and Taiwan. All the girls I talked with seemed to want to run their own restaurant though, not an internet cafe. That may be because internet cafe licenses were incredibly expensive in most of China at the time....seems like some people even run 2-3 businesses. We parked in front of a pre-school that was closed for the weekend and the couple who ran it had set up a vegetable/fruit stand in the parking lot and were going at it. In Taiwan it seems like houses that are capable of running a business in the bottom floor (especially if they are on a busy street) are way more expensive. From talking with my GF and looking at some housing prices that actually seems to be the main determinant of house price in smaller towns...on a busy street and able to run a business seems the highest. On an alley with no room to run a business seems the cheapest.

I think it's definitely possible that there be one business per person and it's kind of sad Americans have gotten away from that...

[Capstone]

Everyone wants to own their own business it seems like and the expensive properties are those on busier streets where you can run a business in the bottom floor (seems like all the houses here are 3+ stories). No zoning regulations as far as I can tell. So you're not just buying a house but a potential family business...there seem to be a huge number of family businesses. I didn't really think about that aspect of real estate when I was in China. Is it a similar kind of deal there do you think? It seemed like Chinese people were really interested in running their own business as well.

Running your own business is very common in China - a large number of the people that I met had at least something small going on the side if not running a small business full time. But that is not what is fueling the real estate boom/bubble in China but rather speculators who are buying new apartment units with no intention of ever living in them. The units are mostly in new high rise buildings meant strictly for residential purposes.

When you buy a new house ( I am using house in reference to apartments as that is how the Chinese refer to them) in China what you actually get is nothing more than an empty cement shell. When I say empty I mean empty - nothing but the cement walls and some basic rough plumbing stubs and electrical wiring. So if you actually want to live in it you would need to finish it out yourself - buy & install all plumbing & electrical fixtures, closets, flooring, cabinets, counters, etc. There are currently high rises full of these units which have been purchased by investors and have been sitting as empty unfinished shells for a year or more. The purchasers are not going to finish them because they have no intention of ever living in them - just trying to make a quick buck from the (what they expect to be anyway) sale at a higher price. My wife's two brothers each purchased an apartment in the same building about a year ago and they are both still sitting as empty shells as the brothers wait until the price of real estate rises to an amount in which they can sell and make their expected profit. The bubble is primed to burst.

[Jeff S]

Running your own business seemed to be the thing in China, Thailand, and Taiwan. All the girls I talked with seemed to want to run their own restaurant though, not an internet cafe. That may be because internet cafe licenses were incredibly expensive in most of China at the time....seems like some people even run 2-3 businesses. We parked in front of a pre-school that was closed for the weekend and the couple who ran it had set up a vegetable/fruit stand in the parking lot and were going at it. In Taiwan it seems like houses that are capable of running a business in the bottom floor (especially if they are on a busy street) are way more expensive. From talking with my GF and looking at some housing prices that actually seems to be the main determinant of house price in smaller towns...on a busy street and able to run a business seems the highest. On an alley with no room to run a business seems the cheapest.

I think it's definitely possible that there be one business per person and it's kind of sad Americans have gotten away from that...

Not sad - the economic realities of life in America. Opening and running a business here is getting worse and worse when it comes to regulations, permit costs, on and on. In some places like California, it's so difficult, and costs so much, it's becoming a joke. Much easier in China, I'm sure. What's really sad is the nanny state path we're rushing down as fast as we can, and how demonized the businessman is becoming. It's just amazing to me that the Chinese Communists have a better business environment than the bastion of capitalism. And I don't see it improving anytime soon.

[robert angel]

Here in Georgia in my area, they've made it all but impossible. We had a guy who sold roasted and boiled peanuts, as well as tomatoes he grew in his own garden.  The guy was basically selling out of a cooler and wheelbarrow and was loved by many. People went there to talk about all sorts of things. I think his reqquired fee was $11.75 a month and he was a regular, welcome fixture at the boat ramp where he set up.

The county upped hs 'business license' tax to well over $600  a year and added laws prohibiting him or any other business like his (hot dog---ice cream stands) from setting up at any boat ramp or any public park. Very sad.

[jm21-2]

Yep, there's definitely a problem with over-regulation as well as the tax code. I spent about a grand this year just figuring out how much I owed in taxes for my practice.

My GF (despite being able to count the number of times she's cooked on her hands) is really interested in the idea of running a food cart here, but the regulations are ridiculous. I have a ton of ideas I'd like to help her with but if you need to buy a $20,000 food cart to meet safety regulations...damn.

[thekfc]

A former co-worker just got his green cart license (mobile food cart) - after a 2 year wait.  Only 1,000 license is issues for the entire New York City. 

[TurboSS]

I agree about the rock hard beds.  Everytime I have been to China I have trouble sleeping.  Even in the nice more westernized hotels the beds seem rock hard.  My girl didnt even know they made soft beds haha

[jm21-2]

I agree about the rock hard beds.  Everytime I have been to China I have trouble sleeping.  Even in the nice more westernized hotels the beds seem rock hard.  My girl didnt even know they made soft beds haha

My fiance and I are going bed shopping when she gets here. I'm used to a real soft pillow top bed and fingers crossed I can sell her on the idea of a soft bed....

[TurboSS]

I dont think it should be too hard.  I took Jia down to Bali, Indonesia and their beds were almost as soft as western beds.  She loved it!  She said she thinks it would be hard for her to wake up.

[piglett]

  She said she thinks it would be hard for her to wake up.

& the down side to this is??


piglett

[Bob_S]

& the down side to this is??

Breakfast don't make itself.

Git down there and scramble me some eggs, woman!

[piglett]

Breakfast don't make itself.

Git down there and scramble me some eggs, woman!

ha ha ha , my wife thinks cold rice is great for breakfast..........yuck
I normally run downtown & for less than 4 bucks i can get french toast & sausage or ham & homefries with raisin toast from the local dinner. So why am i cooking my own breakfast??

pig

[jm21-2]

$4 X 2 people X 365 days a year = $2,920

I can eat a nice breakfast (let's say hashbrowns, eggs, and bacon) for less than $1 per person (potatoes, eggs, and bacon are not particularly expensive, especially bought in large quantities). That's a savings of almost $2,200 per year.

Then you could compare the cost of driving to the diner (both in terms of gas and wear and tear) versus the electricity or gas used to cook the food.

~$2,200 a year by itself is something to consider, but let's say you grab an espresso instead of brewing coffee at home ($2+ extra) and eat fast food instead of packing a lunch ($2+ extra). That's another $1,500 or so per person. Between those you've got enough money to buy a car each year.

Throw 2 kids into the mix and the cost of eating out becomes even higher. Just with breakfast that's $16 per morning instead of say $4. That's almost $4,400 per year.

[piglett]

$4 X 2 people X 365 days a year = $2,920

I can eat a nice breakfast (let's say hashbrowns, eggs, and bacon) for less than $1 per person (potatoes, eggs, and bacon are not particularly expensive, especially bought in large quantities). That's a savings of almost $2,200 per year.

Then you could compare the cost of driving to the diner (both in terms of gas and wear and tear) versus the electricity or gas used to cook the food.

~$2,200 a year by itself is something to consider, but let's say you grab an espresso instead of brewing coffee at home ($2+ extra) and eat fast food instead of packing a lunch ($2+ extra). That's another $1,500 or so per person. Between those you've got enough money to buy a car each year.

Throw 2 kids into the mix and the cost of eating out becomes even higher. Just with breakfast that's $16 per morning instead of say $4. That's almost $4,400 per year.

well I always bring some diet Snapple from home so i don't have to pay for a drink
I can get a 64oz bottle of Snapple at walmart so i grab 2 or 3 every time I'm there.
I have been known to make some good contacts while i am at the dinner so in a way it's a business breakfast
not all the time buy sometime.

I have done the cook at home breakfast thing & i have to say that i get tired of bacon every dam day
by the end of the week it gets really old. & because i live alone whatever i but raisin bread, bacon, a bag of potatoes or whatever has to be eaten quickly so it will not go bad. I also enjoy chatting with the locals, they all know me & i know all of them.

I may eat at home some once my wife arrives & see how it works.
I really like leftover steak from the night before along with homefries however living alone i only cook what i can eat rite then so there are almost never any leftovers, i guess that will change.


pig
 

[jm21-2]

I guess I enjoy cooking more than most people so I'd rather eat at home if possible. I will probably be working the mornings from home next year and am really looking forward to it. Some spiced up hash browns with bacon or sausage topped with a couple poached eggs sounds awfully good compared to skipping breakfast which is what I currently do. Maybe I'll get bored of it and try out making french toast, pancakes, omelettes, fritatas, or what have you if I eat home long enough. Breakfast foods are all pretty darn cheap. Eggs, potatoes, bacon, and flour/pancake mix last a long time.

Breakfast does not seem like much of an affair in most Asian countries. A little bit in Taiwan. There were some radish cakes that were kind of similar to hash browns that were pretty interesting. Also the Taiwanese style omelettes were pretty good. The bacon and sausages in both Taiwan and Thailand were nothing like the real thing though. In Thailand we went to a very local restaurant for breakfast and they had a sort of scrambled egg that you dipped into different sauces that was really good. Also some sticky rice and sauce/spices wrapped in banana leaves.

I like Capstone's method of throwing some stuff in with rice into a ricemaker and timing it for Congee in the morning.

[Jedironin]

I usually go even cheaper than that... just a bowl of cereal and a glass of juice for breakfast most days.  I get different kinds of cereals, usually something with fruit and/or nuts in it also.

Sometimes on the weekends I'll make toast and scramble eggs with ham and cheese, and make my own "breakfast sandwich". 

[Bob_S]

I have been known to make some good contacts while i am at the dinner so in a way it's a business breakfast not all the time buy sometime....  I also enjoy chatting with the locals, they all know me & i know all of them.

I get it.  For you, eating is not about eating, it's socializing.  So you are willing to pay twice as much for the same stuff.
It's the same with me and beer.  I could get a six-pac of some macro-brew for about $1 per can or bottle at the grocery store and drink it at home.  But I don't drink at home.  I drink with coworkers at the watering hole across from the office once or twice a week where I pay two or three times as much for the same volume of liquid.

I may eat at home some once my wife arrives & see how it works.

Yeah, you will.  Home will be your socialized meal place.  The family gathered around the dinner table for a home cooked meal every night (or most nights) is a very pleasant thing.

[Jeff S]

Ah - Japanese breakfasts - some roasted aji himono (dried mackeral jack) or mentaiko (spicy cod roe) rice (maybe with a raw egg to mix in,) miso soup and pickled veggies - great way to start the day.  Now it's mostly fruit and a slice of pumpernickel though.

[robert angel]

We know a number of people who spend a sizable percentage of their income on dining out. They typically order the most expensive items on the menu and beverages on top of that. They take home what we typically call 'doggy bags'  of any left overs, but usually never get around to eating them.

Their refrigerators are full of Styrofoam containers with the last week or so's restaurant left overs that they'll ultimately throw away

Once in a while, my wife and I will get extravagant and dine out at a 'fancy' place, but we invariably order ice water with lemon nonetheless.

Sometimes, like this evening, when we ate out at a modest, yet classy place, we'll figure out how much it would cost to fix the same meal at home and often the price is quite comparable.  Tonight, I had for $7.95, the 'House Special Club Sandwich" on rye, which was a loaded, triple decker sandwich with some real high end 'in house' smoked turkey, ham, bacon, cheese and two sauces, lettuce, tomato, great potato salad and a real kosher pickle.

If I bought the ingredients at the store, with the cost of top grade deli meats, the left over bread, lettuce and tomato I'd end up with, I couldn't match it. My wife had the grilled meatloaf  with melted cheese, cranberry and herb sauce on whole wheat bread (healthier than it sounds) and it would've taken an hour alone to cook and prep the meatloaf and we couldn't do it half as well.

Even at McDonalds ,the cost of the crappy cups cost the company uses,cost more than the beverages they put inside and I refuse to pay a 2 or 3 dollars for a drink that costs somewhere between 10 and 20 cents, cup included.

My parents crack me up--they could afford to eat at the Four Seasons for every meal, every day and they have eaten at many of the world's greatest restaurants. But they still buy and use, pancake mix they buy from Costco in 20 pound bags--just the two of them. And they don't waste a thing!

[piglett]

I get it.  For you, eating is not about eating, it's socializing.  So you are willing to pay twice as much for the same stuff.
It's the same with me and beer.  I could get a six-pac of some macro-brew for about $1 per can or bottle at the grocery store and drink it at home.  But I don't drink at home.  I drink with coworkers at the watering hole across from the office once or twice a week where I pay two or three times as much for the same volume of liquid.
Yeah, you will. 

I get a hell of a lot of info from the group of mostly old retired guys that are downtown at the dinner almost every day.
A couple are millionares & a couple are just scraping by in SSI, the rest are somewhere in the middle.
they are from many different walks of life which can make for some very interesting conversations

Home will be your socialized meal place.  The family gathered around the dinner table for a home cooked meal every night (or most nights) is a very pleasant thing.

Oh i already know that once my wife arrives my life will be different.
I would suspect mostly for the best but there mite be a couple of small things that take some getting used to but I'm sure I'll manage.


pig

[Ray]

Hell, I'm with Bob_S...

Drink out, eat in!

Ray

 

[jm21-2]

If I bought the ingredients at the store, with the cost of top grade deli meats, the left over bread, lettuce and tomato I'd end up with, I couldn't match it. My wife had the grilled meatloaf  with melted cheese, cranberry and herb sauce on whole wheat bread (healthier than it sounds) and it would've taken an hour alone to cook and prep the meatloaf and we couldn't do it half as well.

Sometimes eating out is not so bad. For me, I also have to consider 9% sales tax (which doesn't apply to some basic foods) and tips. Plus restaurants are a bit more expensive here in the first place.

I do scratch my head a bit at the cost of some deli meats. One time I figured that the cost of some black forest ham at the deli was about the same price per pound as the wonderful ham from Honey Baked Ham. The latter would make a far, far superior sandwich....

[TurboSS]

I hate cooking so I spend alot of money eating out.  I may save money when my girl gets here because she wants to cook. lol

[Jedironin]

Oh i already know that once my wife arrives my life will be different.
I would suspect mostly for the best but there mite be a couple of small things that take some getting used to but I'm sure I'll manage.

pig

For example, you'll have to quit dancing around the house naked and singing Irish folk songs. Or am I the only one that does that?!   

 

[piglett]

For example, you'll have to quit dancing around the house naked and singing Irish folk songs. Or am I the only one that does that?!   

 

I don't see how that sort of activity would be looked down upon by my new bride
hell if i close the shades she mite even join in 

pig