Taiwan

[jm21-2]

So, the flight to Taiwan was uneventful. Eva air seems alright and can't protest about a non-stop flight for under $1k. Plane was pretty new and food and service were decent. Overall above average.

Arrived at the airport and immigration/customs was incredibly fast compared to other countries. My GF wasn't expecting me so early so it caught her off guard a bit and she ended up not getting there for an hour or two...gave me some time to exchange currency and get a sim card. Then she got lost a couple times trying to figure out where the pick-up location was for cars. Anyways, all worked out OK.

The late flight worked out nice because i got a little sleep on the plane and we had a whole day to mess around. We wandered around Taoyuan a bit, had lunch, and then went to the Taipei Zoo. She was pretty excited to see the ridiculously expensive panda exhibit so it turned out well. She had wanted to take me to this real expensive buffet restaurant but it just seemed over-priced to me and we ended up having our meals at some hole in the wall restaurants. There's a dish called alakian (probably have that wrong) that is really good...some doughy tortilla like thing with egg and topped with vegetables, seafood, and some really good sauce.

Really, it seems almost impossible to find bad food here. All the restaurants are good it seems like. They don't seem as intent on over-cooking everything like in Mainland China so the seafood has been great. Cheap too...you can get a real good meal for about $3. All the hotels so far serve breakfast and it's pretty good. The place we stayed at tonight was a little vacation lodge...sort of like a bread and breakfast...the owner/wife made us this pumpkin milk concoction from her garden that was amazing. Never thought of using pumpkin that way.

Haven't really done much touristy stuff. Second day was mostly driving...we went to visit one of the scenic areas and got stuck behind about 100 giant tour buses on an extremely narrow road so that took a big chunk of the day. Today we'll probably hit some small natural areas along the coastal road, spend the night in Taitung, then on to green island the next day. Debating where to go scuba diving or not because it's so expensive...for the two of us to go out costs about the same as 4-5 nights of hotels.

Things are going extremely well between us, maybe even too much cuddling, so that's good. Some problems at work so having to take time to answer e-mails and so on which sucks, but what can you do. Definitely encouraging me to try something a bit different as far as work goes...I am in court way too often and it makes vacations difficult.

Anyways, she finished her shower so i'm outta here....

[bcc_1_2]

Anyways, she finished her shower so i'm outta here....

What the hell were you ever doing here man... 

Have fun!

[evoltnvii]

WTF get your ass in there man its time for a showa!!! hahahahaha

[Bob_S]

Two words: konyoku onsen.







Oh wait!  Wrong country.  Nevermind.   

[jm21-2]

Actually there are quite a few Japanese style hot springs in Taiwan that were built around the turn of the century.

Was a pretty great trip until tonight. We had a sweet hotel in sort of the key west of Taiwan, then up into the mountains, but things dramatically fell apart tonight.

A little before I came we had been talking about the expense of future trips and I said something like it would be nice or eaiser if she helped with the cost of the plane ticket. When I got here she isnisted on paying for half the plane ticket and wouldn't let me return the money. I thought, OK, screw it, I'll just pay for the hotels then. Then tonight we were looking at two different rooms, one a bit less expensive that I didn't really like and one a bit more expensive that I really liked. I said something like "as long as I'm paying let's get the more expensive one." She took it to mean like I was looking down on her or something or I'm not really sure what, acting like I was giving to charity or something I guess, got totally pissed off, and wants to break up now.

Not sure what to do now....[snip] is hitting the fan at work, I'm basically risking malpractice even taking this trip, and over two small comments she wants to break up.

Not sure if I really just have some sort of money issues or what...sigh...

As for Taiwan, it's a pretty interesting country. Pretty cheap to visit and a nice mix of Chinese, Japanese, and American elements. I tried ot make a psot earlier but hte internet connection went down and I lost the post. When I have more time I'll go into more detail. Not sure if I'm going to stay here or change my flight time and go home early...argh...

[Jeff S]

Ah the problems of introducing money into the equation. Modern dating may be cheaper for the man but when issues like this end up in the mix, it's just not worth it.

Sounds like you need to handle your career first. If she can't handle that, I'd say she's way too much of a drama queen to even consider getting more serious with.

Good luck.

- Jeff

[robert angel]

Jm,

Remember--"This is a test, this is only a test" See how you weather the storm warning test and proceed as appropriate.

For some people, including 14 years with my Asian first wife, there can be to us what seems ridiculous over sensitivity to money 'issues' and crazy (oh and NEVER use the word 'crazy' to describe it to her) to us--but it's real as rain to them and we should realize that. If someone feels slighted or that they're 'losing face'--often no amount of us explaining can change their 'reality grasp' of the situation--sometimes it's best to state your case short and sweet and move on and if necessary, remind her later on of what you said initially.

We used to tally up the bills every couple of months and pay from our separate accounts (yes, for 14 years!) and it often got nasty and making different amounts than each other certainly didn't help the situation.

Better luck to you, hopefully!

[Ray]

A little before I came we had been talking about the expense of future trips and I said something like it would be nice or eaiser if she helped with the cost of the plane ticket. When I got here she isnisted on paying for half the plane ticket and wouldn't let me return the money. I thought, OK, screw it, I'll just pay for the hotels then. Then tonight we were looking at two different rooms, one a bit less expensive that I didn't really like and one a bit more expensive that I really liked. I said something like "as long as I'm paying let's get the more expensive one." She took it to mean like I was looking down on her or something or I'm not really sure what, acting like I was giving to charity or something I guess, got totally pissed off, and wants to break up now.

Huh?

You really asked her to help pay for YOUR plane ticket? WTF?

I have seen a lot of cheap-asses before, but this takes the cake! That really takes balls!

You insulted her and I don’t blame her one bit for wanting to break it off. I imagine that she is looking down the road at a life of misery with a complete cheapskate.

Give this young lady a break and let her go…



Ray   

[robert angel]

I didn't ask my wife to pay a dime for transportation here. I paid for entire inflatable boat myself.

[Woody]

I didn't ask my wife to pay a dime for transportation here. I paid for entire inflatable boat myself.

Well, as far as cost goes, you can't beat importing a Cuban. All you need is an old inner tube. Look at it this way too, once she hits land, she get asylum and fast tracked to residency!

[Woody]

You really asked her to help pay for YOUR plane ticket?

Doubt it. He was probably venting and let slip a snide remark about the cost of this whole thing. She took it seriously and personally and it all went downhill from there.

JM: Are you sure there isn't a small language barrier here? Maybe you should compose your thoughts on paper.

[robert angel]

Re:

>>Are you sure there isn't a small language barrier here? Maybe you should compose your thoughts on paper.<<

When I first read about this technique, I quickly dismissed it as ridiculous, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes for some situations, as described here. Trying to keep the 'cue cards' as simple and to the point as possible would probably be wise...

[jm21-2]

Doubt it. He was probably venting and let slip a snide remark about the cost of this whole thing. She took it seriously and personally and it all went downhill from there.

JM: Are you sure there isn't a small language barrier here? Maybe you should compose your thoughts on paper.

Yeah, that's basically how it happened. She took it more as Ray did. I had no expectation of her paying me anything as far as transportation costs go. I'm cheap but I'm not that cheap. I've offered to buy her a ticket to Canada as well. In the ideal world I think it would be nice to share transportation costs but that doesn't really fit with reality.

My basic impression is that I (very rarely, maybe 3-4 times since I've known her) complain about expenses and that makes her feel really bad. Just need to learn to keep those thoughts to myself.

We both got pretty pissed off at each other but made it up very early this morning/late last night.

Language barrier is an issue sometimes...maybe more-so because her English is very good, so she sometimes she thinks she has the right meaning when she doesn't, but because her English is good she doesn't even think about looking it up.

[z_k_g]

I had no expectation of her paying me anything as far as transportation costs go. I'm cheap but I'm not that cheap. I've offered to buy her a ticket to Canada as well. In the ideal world I think it would be nice to share transportation costs but that doesn't really fit with reality.

You guys have to work out the subtleties of the relationship, the nuances that you can't verbalize but come to grow and understand after spending time together.  (The Archie/Edith Bunker interaction that no one else understood!)

Sounds like things are going well!!  If you both are willing to compromise, I think you are going to have a successful trip and continue to lay the foundation for a solid relationship.

Good luck!

Zulu

[robert angel]

regarding:


>>We both got pretty pissed off at each other but made it up very early this morning/late last night<<

Thatsa nice sign...

[Ray]

Well jm, I'm glad you made up. Engineers can be very anal-lytical about money matters and stuff like that.

So, did you meet the family yet??

Did you try that terrible Taiwan Beer and Taiwan Whiskey? 

Ray

[bcc_1_2]

Yea with a girl so intent on paying her fair share and carrying an equal financial responsibility in the relationship it just seems like a bad idea to joke about money.

This ambition is noble but we'll just have to see if you are able to get around it. If she moves to the USA on a K1 she'll be at least semi dependent on you for awhile. All I'm wondering is if or how she will handle that.

[Dave H]

Well, as far as cost goes, you can't beat importing a Cuban. All you need is an old inner tube. Look at it this way too, once she hits land, she get asylum and fast tracked to residency!

Hey Woody,

It sounds like a good deal. But, once you get involved with a Castro Commie, you will regret it!!! They think that everything in America is free and want it all...NOW!!! Then you have to pay around $10,000 each to smuggle in the rest of her family.

Dave

[jm21-2]

I think I just need to be extremely careful not to make any sort of complaints about finances...the beginning of this year I've spent a huge amount of money and it was hard to help it. finances with her will definitely be tricky....she absolutely detests the idea of being dependent on someone. If/when I'm providing for her after she comes to the US I need to be damn sure to be optimistic about it.

Met the family yesterday. Her mom tried to stuff me with more food than I could possibly eat, as seems to be the custom in Chinese cultures. I haven't spent much time with her mom and can't communicate with her really, but she seems nice enough. Extremely conservative though I guess so my GF doesn't even want to hold hands when she's around which is a little awkward. I guess I'm the first guy she's introduced to her family as a boyfriend...she had one boyfriend in college but only introduced him as a friend since her parents forbade her from having a boyfriend. Her younger brother is an amazingly good guy. He can't really speak much English but just super-nice. He recently finished his mandatory military service and seems a bit burnt out...studying for some government exams....but aside from that seems like a great guy.

Taiwan beer doesn't seem any worse than budweiser or other piss beers. I was hoping the qingdao would be OK but it seems the qingdao beer here is manufactured in Taiwan and doesn't really taste right. Haven't tried the whiskey.

Got some extra time since I can't seem to get to sleep so let's see...

Vacationing in Taiwan in general:

Tropical climate in general but it's far more mountainous than I realized so you can escape to a cooler spot pretty easily at the higher elevations. It's pretty damn hot here but AC everywhere so not too bad. At the coast it's not too hot and in the mountains it can be pretty ideal (imho) this time of year (a bit under 20c).

Food is a little weird. It's always a big part of my vacations and I'm a bit of a foodie so I think about it a bit more than most. Finding good food is incredibly easy but in some ways there's a bit less diversity compared to other places I've been. You have some western influences ("spaghetti" variants seem really popular here) but mostly Chinese and Japanese. The problem I've had is that so many restaurants have basically the same menu. We went to a market in Budai and there were something like 10 seafood restaurants with the same menus and prices all in a row. I don't understand how they compete with each other really. I guess if you were a local and tried all of them you could be discerning, but this was in more of a tourist area. I guess whoever has the more aggressive waitstaff/owner is the most profitable? In other places there just doesn't seem to be much variety in the way of food. The food stalls at some markets are a bit more diverse than the restaurants though. On the other hand it's pretty sweet to get some stir fried clams and sashimi at the same restaurant. They don't remove the bones though so can be kind of a pain in the ass especially with some fish dishes.

There are small travel lodges everywhere and not so many hotels. The lodges have a relatively small number of rooms and can vary a lot in quality. Usually you get breakfast as part of the deal. Pretty cheap ($40-50/night for a decent place) and we've had good luck with them. It's actually kind of tempting to buy one some day...seems like a pretty sweet gig.

Driving is relatively easy. The penalties for breaking certain traffic laws are pretty high and there are speed cameras everywhere. Cops can give you a ticket by photographing you (don't need to pull you over for most things) which royally sucks in most ways. But seems to rein in the Chinese driving spirit. Still have to watch for just about every vehicle swinging into the opposing lane of traffic on narrow windy mountain roads but ah well...

Places we went since last post:

We stopped in Taitung for the night and then went for the day to Green Island. The ferry is a high speed catamaran and the seas were a bit rough and she was looking pretty green around the gills but somehow made it through both trips. Others didn't. By motorbike it's about an hour around the island. We sotpped at a few places but not an enormous amount to see. We ate some extremely cute island deer for lunch then went snorkeling...snorkeling was excellent there. They've been luring the fish in with food for a long time so there's a ton of fish there. Snorkeling companies are annoying there because the regulations are you have to wear a full wetsuit and life jacket (but not flippers) when you go snorkeling with a group...didn't seem to be any way to rent equipment for yourself either. They pull the snorkelers behind them in life rings which was imho ridiculous and demeaning but the Taiwanese and Chinese seemed to dig not having to swim. I just swam along beside the group and made sure the GF didn't get left behind.

Kenting: This was sort of like the key west of Taiwan. Nothing really starts until pretty late. Everyone's in a "beach" mood and there are a gazillion food carts and restaurants along the main drag. Live music, loud music, and some guy wearinga cape and bondage outfit out in the street hawking for a nudey bar. Some definitely eye candy with the girls dressed up to go out, some in very "light" clothing. Still pretty modest though by western standards. I imagine this will be a hotter place to visit as time goes on. We got a water front room for a good price (about $110 for two nights) with a huge bath tub overlooking the bay. Still working on getting her to share a bath but just too modest...well, I kind of like her that way. We could walk out and snorkel on the coral reefs in front of the hotel but the bastards won't let you rent your own jet ski (more regulations). There are a ton of them around but you can only get towed in various water toys. Found a guy who rented beach cats but he only had hobie 21 sport cruisers which are a bit on the  expensive side to rent (about $50/hour). Couldn't find anything smaller. Just couldn't bring myself to pay a night's rent at a waterfront hotel for one hour on a beach cat.

Then we went to Mount Alishan. Much cooler (even cold at times). Dozens of tea shops as you go up the mountain. There's a kind of resort area at the top of the road (about $7 per person to get into) with a bunch of hotels and restaurants. It was mid-week and found a really nice room for about $50. Didn't get there until pretty late so just lazed around the first night then went hiking the next day. There are some pretty interesting sights, especially some of the old trees. Many of them 2,000 plus years old, and some where 2-3 generations of trees have grown off each other. We attempted the hike to the summit in the afternoon but there are about a gazillion stairs and it was starting to rain so we just said screw it and went back. I wanted to reach the summit but she was worried about it getting dark so we just went back. I was pretty surprised she lasted as long as she did in any case.

Actually pretty amazed overall at how well she held up going to various places. She rarely exercises but was climbing all over rocks on this volcanic beach we visited in sandals and a skirt.

We were going to try to go to Penghu but ended up being too late for any of the ferries so just went to her mom's house instead. Today we went to sun moon lake ansd damn there are a lot of Chinese and taiwanese tourists there. Was impossible to find a parking space...finally got one and rented a row boat (the main reason we went there) and got harassed by the damn tour boats constantly in the main part of the lake. There were dozens if not hundreds of 40-50 foot tour boats making circuits around the lake and made it a mess for most other people. Then if you get near their circuit there's some sort of patrol that comes over and harasses you until you leave. Really annoying.

I've seen a couple places so far where they've built boats basically out of hollow tubes they bend a little bit. Basically a sophisticated raft of big metal pipes with an outboard on it. Pretty cool idea. A little like a pontoon boat in some ways I guess. I'm pretty curious about how cheap they are to make.

That's about it for now...not exactly sure what to do tomorrow yet.

[piglett]

Hey Jm how much longer you going to be able to stay over there?
Are your clients climbing the walls yet without you?
I caught a little static @ work but not too bad.
I guess there is just never a good time to take an over seas vacation.
oh well ya got to do what you got to do sometimes.


later on
piglett

[z_k_g]

Jm sounds like you are having a great time!!

Are you having any more disagreements with her? 

If you are, hopefully they are just the normal type, then are you guys developing a good one-on-one interaction?

You feeling like you can spend the rest of your life with her?

Zulu

[Bob_S]

I think I just need to be extremely careful not to make any sort of complaints about finances...the beginning of this year I've spent a huge amount of money and it was hard to help it. finances with her will definitely be tricky....she absolutely detests the idea of being dependent on someone. If/when I'm providing for her after she comes to the US I need to be damn sure to be optimistic about it.

That's right.  These aren't AmW who want to hold hands and whine together while slowly emasculating you.  Your girl will need you to be the Man.  And the Man takes care of business with quiet stoicism.  Problems may arise, but you gotta take care of 'em so it is seamless to her.  If she ever has cause to ask, "was there a problem?", you can reply, "no, I took care if it," cuz you are DA MAN, and you take care of your Woman.

[jm21-2]

That's right.  These aren't AmW who want to hold hands and whine together while slowly emasculating you.  Your girl will need you to be the Man.  And the Man takes care of business with quiet stoicism.  Problems may arise, but you gotta take care of 'em so it is seamless to her.  If she ever has cause to ask, "was there a problem?", you can reply, "no, I took care if it," cuz you are DA MAN, and you take care of your Woman.

Heh, something like that. If I complain about finances she feels like she's being a burden to me and gets all worked up. First feeling bad about being a burden then ticked at me for not letting her know in advance that there could be a problem. That seems to be the only rough spot in our relationship.

She's from an _extremely_ conservative family but for some reason extremely affectionate just about everywhere except when her mom or brother is around. She was hanging off me at a store we went to and some guy came up saying "wah...are all Americans so affectionate??" and gave us a big thumbs up.

She wants to hold off on marriage but I can definitely see things going that way. Just marriage is an enormous commitment to her (she doesn't believe in divorce) and she wants to make absolutely sure she makes the right decision. I was maybe too eager and it's probably a good idea to go slower.

Work is a pain but I've been e-mailing my assistant almost every day and things are being kept from totally boiling over. Just barely though. It would be tempting to take a break and teach English here for a year or two, maybe try out running a vacation lodge or restaurant...there are basically no western restaurants here (though corn dogs seem extremely popular).