Dream Plan: Coastal Ecuador?

[Alabamaboy!]

Benjio
 
I hear ya . The only thing keeping us here is my daughter and there are freedoms here that you will just not get anywhere else in the world. That being said, the state of Government here is bordering on uttermost arrogant stupidity. As far as Colombia, I like Colombia a lot and have been there at last count, 32 times in the past 11 years, but based on criteria that they use to rank places to retire, Colombia just does not cut it at all based on cost of living, healthcare, security, transportation and general ease of Foreigner's to retire there. If you want to live in a Pueblo or finca, then it is doable on less then 2K a month, but if you want to live a somewhat comparable lifestyle that you enjoy in the US/Canada, ect, then Ecuador hands down is the winner. Me, I want my place on the beach and a 6 day a week maid, car and able to go out to eat , dentist, ect and for 2K a month you would have $$ left over to put in the bank for a rainy day. Ecuador's beaches remind me of Baha'i California and Cabo.Real kind of laid back surfer mentality there. Mind you, that lifestyle is not for everybody, but for me and then to be able to go back to Quito to our home there as well when we want, That is the best of both worlds.
 
KB

I re-read the article I was originally referring to in this thread and I was mistaken. Ecuador was not ranked #2, it was ranked #1 as the best place to retire based on a bunch of factors. Colombia was not in the top 10.

[benjio]

Benjio
 
I hear ya . The only thing keeping us here is my daughter and there are freedoms here that you will just not get anywhere else in the world. That being said, the state of Government here is bordering on uttermost arrogant stupidity. As far as Colombia, I like Colombia a lot and have been there at last count, 32 times in the past 11 years, but based on criteria that they use to rank places to retire, Colombia just does not cut it at all based on cost of living, healthcare, security, transportation and general ease of Foreigner's to retire there. If you want to live in a Pueblo or finca, then it is doable on less then 2K a month, but if you want to live a somewhat comparable lifestyle that you enjoy in the US/Canada, ect, then Ecuador hands down is the winner. Me, I want my place on the beach and a 6 day a week maid, car and able to go out to eat , dentist, ect and for 2K a month you would have $$ left over to put in the bank for a rainy day. Ecuador's beaches remind me of Baha'i California and Cabo.Real kind of laid back surfer mentality there. Mind you, that lifestyle is not for everybody, but for me and then to be able to go back to Quito to our home there as well when we want, That is the best of both worlds.
 
KB

You definitely got me thnking about Ecuador, and I plan on doing some research during my stay next year. The price of real estate there makes it even more attractive.
 
I know a retired gringo that lives in Dosquebrados near Pereira. He has a very nice Strato 3, three bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment he paid around $45K USD for five years ago. He has a girlfriend that's 15 years younger than he is, but she has her own home in the city of Pereira. He pays a maid to come 3 days a week, has great health insurance, and has a membership at a local gym within walking distance of his apartment. For anyone that hasn't been to Dosque, there is a very large, absolutely gorgeous park there filled with bamboo trees, natural fresh water streams, a walking trail, bike trail, and there are dozens of concerts and festivals held their every year. There's also an Exito in Dosque within walking distance of the entire southern barrio. Great night life and tons beautiful women from Pereira work in and around Dosque. My friend's monthly expenses are about $700. This doesn't include a trip back to the states twice a year to visit his grandchidren, and the occasional out of town trip with his girlfriend. He eats very well, likes to buy old Classical Bolero Records, and likes to fresh water fish around Salento. He did admit to me that he had to travel back to the states for a major operation he didn't trust a Colombian to perform, and he'll probably have to do it again within the next five years.
 
I've been promoting the Pereira/Dosquebrados area as if I had stock in it on this board and a couple of others, but Dosque presents the rare opportunity of living for pueblo prices with big city amenities readily available. If you want to go to a shopping mall, visit a museum, enjoy some foreign cuisine..HELL, even if you want to go to a strip club once in a while. Downtown Pereira is a 5 minute, $12,000 Peso taxi ride across the bridge from Dosque. If you take the Megabus, 10 minutes and $750 pesos.
 
If Ecuador doesn't tickle my fancy enough, I'll probably end up there within the next five years...if I can get rid of this damn house of course.

[AndyLee]

I have a friend currently vacationing in Ecuador who says the seafood and the chinese food are both excellent, unlike Colombia where the mainstream diet is less than overwhelmingly good. In fact, one of the major reasons I might decide to leave Colombia is because of the typical colombian food is not very exciting, when I consider the world flavors I used to sample. Sometimes I feel like I'd kick a mule if it would get me a good authentic spicy Thai stir fry with shrimp and calamari.
Then there is the question of the women. Somehow or other, that's the common denominator of all our posts, isn't it?
I recently did a search of women on latinamericancupid.com and I agree with KB's observations that there is more of a European look to many of the women and less of the African-Spanish influence that you will see in Colombia. However, I'll guess that the percentage of women I'm attracted to on the Ecuador site is similar to the percentage of women I'm attracted to on the Colombia site. There are fewer of them in Ecuador, of course, given the difference in population between that of Colombia, but nonetheless I like the looks of the Ecuadorean women, too.
I checked one dating agency in Ecuador http://www.ecuadorsingles.com/index.html that has some really nice women on their page and the dating agency costs and housing/dating costs are significantly less than in Colombia. PLEASE believe me I am not shilling for this agency. I'm just using it as an example of a kitchen table size family owned dating agency that offers the kind of services I like at a price that is more affordable than many of the bigger agencies in Colombia.
I'm very interested in KB's talk about the low cost of real estate and the low humidity along the coast. Personally I'd like to live at about 6000 feet elevation in the cool mountains with a hundred mile view and have ready access to the beach for occasional weekend forays. I'm actually more of a mountain/café zona kind of guy than a beach bum, but I do like the seashore for an occasional holiday.
I'm also interested that the Ecuadorean currency is the US Dollar at par. I want to make a note here that since I retired to Colombia 2 years ago my dollar is purchasing about 30% LESS.
I think I'd like to go check out Ecuador because their expat retirement package is hugely better than for expats in Colombia.  For those of you who haven't yet tried it, retiring in Colombia is full of wrinkles. The only free thing we get is saving $175US on the pensionado visa because we are US citizen. Other than that everything costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time and you have to keep renewing everything over and over and one little misstep can have them sending you all the way back to the batter's box and having to start all over.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still convinced Colombia is a better retirement option for me than any spot in the US, but I'm thinking that I would like to take a closer look at Ecuador. I have a fiancee and young family now, in Colombia, but if not for them I'd jump the border quickly based on what I know now.

[benjio]

AndyLee, you bring up an excellent point about residency and visa question. When I stay in Colombia next year I'm going to be going to Ecuador at least every 60 days to work, so getting a fresh passport stamp shouldn't be a problem and I won't have to worry about any kind of visa. However, I've done little to no research on what goes into actually living there permanmently. If you don't mind I'd like to PM you some questions before I go Google crazy looking for information that's usually not there.

[AndyLee]

AndyLee, you bring up an excellent point about residency and visa question. When I stay in Colombia next year I'm going to be going to Ecuador at least every 60 days to work, so getting a fresh passport stamp shouldn't be a problem and I won't have to worry about any kind of visa. However, I've done little to no research on what goes into actually living there permanmently. If you don't mind I'd like to PM you some questions before I go Google crazy looking for information that's usually not there.

I can only answer your question from the standpoint of being a US retiree in Colombia.
You can enter Colombia on a "tourist visa" which is issued by the Colombian Immigration officer at the airport.
When you enter Colombia as a tourist they will stamp your passport for either 30 or 60 days, depending on the mood of the Colombian immigration monkey and what kind of day he is having and whether you look like an easy mark. At the end of the 30 or 60 days you have to either leave Colombia or go to DAS (similar to the FBI in the USA) and extend your "tourist visa". To extend your tourist visa for another 30 days costs you about 1 day of aggravation in lines and stumbling with your Spanish to explain yourself to the oftentimes unfriendly receptionist at the DAS office and another 45,000 pesos. That buys you one month. Then you do it again, for each month during the 6 months you are allowed to stay in Colombia on a "tourist visa". At the end of the 6 months you must leave Colombia or face some very severe fines which can amount to hundreds of dollars each day that you are overstayed.
Compare this to the scenario if your are a Colombian Tourist visiting the USA, you receive a 6 months tourist visa, for $45 and you don't have to, actually cannot, keep renewing it. But, at the end of the 6 months you can return to Colombia for a day and then return to the USA. You can keep doing this for 10 years. But, IF you overstay your visa in the US by even 11 days (based on the experience of a friend of mine) you will be deported to Colombia and in Colombia you will receive a fine of about 12 million pesos and a penalty of 10 years during which time you cannot even reapply for a tourist visa.
In  another message i will describe the process of getting, and renewing, a pensionado visa to live in Colombia.

[benjio]

I can only answer your question from the standpoint of being a US retiree in Colombia.
You can enter Colombia on a "tourist visa" which is issued by the Colombian Immigration officer at the airport.
When you enter Colombia as a tourist they will stamp your passport for either 30 or 60 days, depending on the mood of the Colombian immigration monkey and what kind of day he is having and whether you look like an easy mark. At the end of the 30 or 60 days you have to either leave Colombia or go to DAS (similar to the FBI in the USA) and extend your "tourist visa". To extend your tourist visa for another 30 days costs you about 1 day of aggravation in lines and stumbling with your Spanish to explain yourself to the oftentimes unfriendly receptionist at the DAS office and another 45,000 pesos. That buys you one month. Then you do it again, for each month during the 6 months you are allowed to stay in Colombia on a "tourist visa". At the end of the 6 months you must leave Colombia or face some very severe fines which can amount to hundreds of dollars each day that you are overstayed.
Compare this to the scenario if your are a Colombian Tourist visiting the USA, you receive a 6 months tourist visa, for $45 and you don't have to, actually cannot, keep renewing it. But, at the end of the 6 months you can return to Colombia for a day and then return to the USA. You can keep doing this for 10 years. But, IF you overstay your visa in the US by even 11 days (based on the experience of a friend of mine) you will be deported to Colombia and in Colombia you will receive a fine of about 12 million pesos and a penalty of 10 years during which time you cannot even reapply for a tourist visa.
In  another message i will describe the process of getting, and renewing, a pensionado visa to live in Colombia.

I'm familiar with the tourist visa process, but I've never been stamped for less than 60 days upon entry. The longest I've ever stayed in Colombia during one trip was a little over 40 days and I didn't encounter any problems when I was leaving. I actually was returning a few days after that. I didn't even know they had 30 day stamps. Guess I've been lucky in that regard. Unfortunately my friend in Pereira was born in Colombia, left when he was 12 and lived most of his life in the U.S. and Asia before returning home to retire, so from what he's told me he didn't need a thing to come back and live there permanently. Supposedly he already had the documentation necessary to obtain a Colombian Cedula (which they didn't use when he was born, but he had some type of birth certificate).
 
My question is how are you living there for extended periods and what has to be done to obtain that level of residency.

[michaelb]

Is Cuenca famous for making Panama Hats???

Not sure....I believe that "Panama" hats are indeed made in Ecuador, but I don't know if any one particular city is more noted for them than the other cities. I'll ask John if he knows anything about that in our next round of email exchanges.

[AndyLee]

My question is how are you living there for extended periods and what has to be done to obtain that level of residency.

The 30 or 60 tourist visa stamp is normal. After that you either have to renew it monthly up to 6 months then leave the country for a year or you have to go for some type of permanent visa, ie. work, pensionado, school, conjugal, investment or one of the other 17 possibilties.
In my case I went for the Pensionado and here is how I did it.
The requirements are that you must have a guaranteed retirement income from such as US Social Security or Military or from some pension fund that is accepted. There is no official list of which pension funds are accepted so you just have to take your chances.
That income must be greater than US $750 per month, although I have a friend who recently received his Pensionado Visa in Colombia based on a Canadian retirement income of approx US $600. As you know, nothing is carved in stone in Colombia.


First you take your official certified benefits letter to the US Embassy in Bogota where they translate it to Spanish and sign it. This service is free, but you have to have an appointment and you can only contact them between 11 am and 12 pm Monday through Thursday to request the appointment and you have to speak Spanish or have a translator to talk to the US Embassy by phone.
As it turns out, the appointment is shared by a hundred or so other people so you wind up waiting in line most of the day for your appointment. Nobody speaks English at the American Embassy so it is necessary to either speak Spanish or have a translator accompany you. Oddly enough they will let a human translator accompany you but they will not let you take an electronic translator into the building, even if it is an American built translator in an American owned building and it is about the size of a cell phone so it obviously cannot carry a bomb bigger than what would blow your thumb off so it is not a viable threat. It is just a way the Colombianos can exert their authority over you. That is Colombia for you.
I have to laugh when I pay a bill at the bank. I pay MY money to pay MY bill and they fingerprint me 4 times, even though the invoice was for something like $25. Even if you go to the post office, such as it is, and post a letter they will fingerprint you at least twice. Supposedly this is to curb crime in Colombia. Then you can walk outside and hire a 15 year old kid to murder someone for you and you pay him about $200 US and because he is still a juvenile if he gets caught he does not go to prison. I recently read about a 15 year old girl in Barranquilla who has murdered 5 people and she is walking free because she is underage. She is a Hit Gal for the gang. God what a [snip]ed up country this is sometimes.
Then you go online and request an appointment with a division of Minister Exterior Relations (MRE) where you pay a 15,000 pesos fee for a stamp that says you actually showed up at the appointed time. This visit to this division of MRE takes a full day.
With this stamp and the receipt for your 15,000 pesos you can then go to MRE proper where you actually apply for the visa. In my case I showed up at 6:30 am and had my visa stamped by 11:30. This whole process takes 3 days in Bogota if you have the appointments set up correctly and show up on time in the proper dress. Do not show up in Bermuda Shorts, they will send you away and you have to go back online and reapply for a new appointment time. This whole process is helped immeasurably if you speak Spanish.
After finishing at MRE I have 15 days to appear before the DAS (similar to FBI in US) and request a national identification card called a Cedula. This costs another 145,000 pesos and takes another day, during which I get to stand in line for 2 hours at Davivienda Bank so I can make the necessary deposit and get the necessary pink receipt with the two inked stamps and my fingerprints on it.
The DAS tells me to come back in 30 days to receive my new ID card. They know damn well the card will not be there in just 30 days. Last year I waited 5 months, this year I am still waiting since July 2. I expect my new card about January or February, and of course, in the meantime I am illegal because my old card expired the month after I applied for the new one.
All of this gets repeated every year for 5 years, then I can get a 5 year visa and I only have to repeat the steps every 5th year.
I can pay a broker attorney to do all this for me and it costs about 600,000 to 800,000 each year which over 5 years amounts to about $1500-$2,000 US.
Again, this is Colombia. Compare this to Mexico, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Argentina and a dozen other Latin American countries and you will wonder why the hell anybody would choose Colombia over the others.

[jb]

I'm interested to know more about the coast as well.  One thing that i liked about Colombia is the ecological diversity.  it appears Ecuador has this also.

If anyone is into healthy eating living stuff, make sure to check out Vilcabamba Ecuador to at least travel to.  It is known as the valley of longevity.
If you are fully into that lifestyle, a few years ago it would have been great to buy property down there i hear, but now it has appeared to change with foreigners buying property.  But i haven't researched it recently to see the situation.

[robert angel]

Maybe if the Colombian bureaucracy took over Washington D.C., we'd have less redundancy and things would run more efficiently!

 
One thing for sure is say what you will, but I've never been to another country that had a govt. postal service that could deliver mail between two points within a nation as quickly as the USA's does. When I lived in Canada--which is better and certainly more secure (honest) than a lot of nations, it sometimes took 2 or 3 weeks to get a letter mailed across town.

[Alabamaboy!]

Maybe if the Colombian bureaucracy took over Washington D.C., we'd have less redundancy and things would run more efficiently!

 
One thing for sure is say what you will, but I've never been to another country that had a govt. postal service that could deliver mail between two points within a nation as quickly as the USA's does. When I lived in Canada--which is better and certainly more secure (honest) than a lot of nations, it sometimes took 2 or 3 weeks to get a letter mailed across town.

You definitely got me thnking about Ecuador, and I plan on doing some research during my stay next year. The price of real estate there makes it even more attractive.
 
I know a retired gringo that lives in Dosquebrados near Pereira. He has a very nice Strato 3, three bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment he paid around $45K USD for five years ago. He has a girlfriend that's 15 years younger than he is, but she has her own home in the city of Pereira. He pays a maid to come 3 days a week, has great health insurance, and has a membership at a local gym within walking distance of his apartment. For anyone that hasn't been to Dosque, there is a very large, absolutely gorgeous park there filled with bamboo trees, natural fresh water streams, a walking trail, bike trail, and there are dozens of concerts and festivals held their every year. There's also an Exito in Dosque within walking distance of the entire southern barrio. Great night life and tons beautiful women from Pereira work in and around Dosque. My friend's monthly expenses are about $700. This doesn't include a trip back to the states twice a year to visit his grandchidren, and the occasional out of town trip with his girlfriend. He eats very well, likes to buy old Classical Bolero Records, and likes to fresh water fish around Salento. He did admit to me that he had to travel back to the states for a major operation he didn't trust a Colombian to perform, and he'll probably have to do it again within the next five years.
 
I've been promoting the Pereira/Dosquebrados area as if I had stock in it on this board and a couple of others, but Dosque presents the rare opportunity of living for pueblo prices with big city amenities readily available. If you want to go to a shopping mall, visit a museum, enjoy some foreign cuisine..HELL, even if you want to go to a strip club once in a while. Downtown Pereira is a 5 minute, $12,000 Peso taxi ride across the bridge from Dosque. If you take the Megabus, 10 minutes and $750 pesos.
 
If Ecuador doesn't tickle my fancy enough, I'll probably end up there within the next five years...if I can get rid of this damn house of course.

How is the weather there in Dosquebradas? Is it about the same as Medellin? Or more cold? I have not been able to find much info regarding the weather there.

[Alabamaboy!]

Maybe if the Colombian bureaucracy took over Washington D.C., we'd have less redundancy and things would run more efficiently!

 
One thing for sure is say what you will, but I've never been to another country that had a govt. postal service that could deliver mail between two points within a nation as quickly as the USA's does. When I lived in Canada--which is better and certainly more secure (honest) than a lot of nations, it sometimes took 2 or 3 weeks to get a letter mailed across town.

I think Colombian bureaucracy is pretty bad also. It took a lot of jumping through hoops to get married there.

[Alabamaboy!]

I found the weather for Pereira for the next 10 days. It is expected to rain every day! It rained a lot in Medellin when I was there also, but was pretty brief and there was plenty of sunshine as well.

[benjio]

I found the weather for Pereira for the next 10 days. It is expected to rain every day! It rained a lot in Medellin when I was there also, but was pretty brief and there was plenty of sunshine as well.

Bama, the weather in the Pereira area is as you described. It usually rains everyday, but it's early in the morning. Usually it stops before morning rush hour. Sometimes they'll be a sprinkle in the afternoon but nothing so serious it shuts the city down like the arroyos in Barranquilla.
 
Andy, thanks for the information. I actually think I'm going to take some afternoon Spanish Immersion classes wherever I settle and do the student visa thing. From what I've read it's relatively easy and cheap. I'm also going to explore those other 17 options you mentioned as I have no idea what they entail.
 
On a side note...the 15 year old female murderer you were talking about is probably in a gang called Los Mosquitos. I've posted about them in detail on other boards. From what I understand the gang started in Barrio La Paz a few years ago, but have spread and now have factions in El Bosque, Soledad and a few other areas in Sur Occidente. Mosquitos venture north in teams on the bus lines in Barranquilla and do a lot of stick up robberies of the richer Barranquilleros. Although most members of the gang are under 17 years of age, they do murders for hire and pride themselves on their ruthlessness. I've also heard rumors that they now enforce for the cartels in the south when a trafficker up north doesn't want to pay up or has done something else wrong. If anyone reading this finds themselves being robbed in Barranquilla or Soledad by someone that appears to be very young, even if it is a girl, I'd advise you to take them very seriously. I've heard of Colombians, especially those from outside of Barranquilla, being shot because they couldn't believe someone so young was robbing them and treated it as a joke. Mosquitos are very active during Carnaval with pick pocket operations and scams. A popular method of robbery during Carnaval is to throw that white [snip] everyone throws in a foreigners eye and emptying their pockets while they're trying to get their vision back.

[JimD]

When you enter Colombia as a tourist they will stamp your passport for either 30 or 60

I am surprised to hear this. Before I had my Temporal TS and later Resident Visa I was always given 90 days at Alfonso Bonilla (Cali). Has this changed? What Port Of Entry did you use before acquiring your retirement visa?

[AndyLee]

I am surprised to hear this. Before I had my Temporal TS and later Resident Visa I was always given 90 days at Alfonso Bonilla (Cali). Has this changed? What Port Of Entry did you use before acquiring your retirement visa?

I've only entered Colombia through Cartagena and Bogota but in both places was stamped 60 days. I've a friend who entered through Bogota and got 30 and another friend through Medellin and got 60. It seems to be the norm at 60 and I'd be surprised to get 90 at any airport now.

[whitey]

When I lived in Canada--which is better and certainly more secure (honest) than a lot of nations, it sometimes took 2 or 3 weeks to get a letter mailed across town.

Yikes, that's pretty bad Rob!  Nowadays, I often get my mail next day from in town, or the day after.

[JimD]

The 30 or 60 tourist visa stamp is normal. After that you either have to renew it monthly up to 6 months then leave the country for a year or you have to go for some type of permanent visa, ie. work, pensionado, school, conjugal, investment or one of the other 17 possibilties.
In my case I went for the Pensionado and here is how I did it.
The requirements are that you must have a guaranteed retirement income from such as US Social Security or Military or from some pension fund that is accepted. There is no official list of which pension funds are accepted so you just have to take your chances.
That income must be greater than US $750 per month, although I have a friend who recently received his Pensionado Visa in Colombia based on a Canadian retirement income of approx US $600. As you know, nothing is carved in stone in Colombia.


First you take your official certified benefits letter to the US Embassy in Bogota where they translate it to Spanish and sign it. This service is free, but you have to have an appointment and you can only contact them between 11 am and 12 pm Monday through Thursday to request the appointment and you have to speak Spanish or have a translator to talk to the US Embassy by phone.
As it turns out, the appointment is shared by a hundred or so other people so you wind up waiting in line most of the day for your appointment. Nobody speaks English at the American Embassy so it is necessary to either speak Spanish or have a translator accompany you. Oddly enough they will let a human translator accompany you but they will not let you take an electronic translator into the building, even if it is an American built translator in an American owned building and it is about the size of a cell phone so it obviously cannot carry a bomb bigger than what would blow your thumb off so it is not a viable threat. It is just a way the Colombianos can exert their authority over you. That is Colombia for you.
I have to laugh when I pay a bill at the bank. I pay MY money to pay MY bill and they fingerprint me 4 times, even though the invoice was for something like $25. Even if you go to the post office, such as it is, and post a letter they will fingerprint you at least twice. Supposedly this is to curb crime in Colombia. Then you can walk outside and hire a 15 year old kid to murder someone for you and you pay him about $200 US and because he is still a juvenile if he gets caught he does not go to prison. I recently read about a 15 year old girl in Barranquilla who has murdered 5 people and she is walking free because she is underage. She is a Hit Gal for the gang. God what a [snip]ed up country this is sometimes.
Then you go online and request an appointment with a division of Minister Exterior Relations (MRE) where you pay a 15,000 pesos fee for a stamp that says you actually showed up at the appointed time. This visit to this division of MRE takes a full day.
With this stamp and the receipt for your 15,000 pesos you can then go to MRE proper where you actually apply for the visa. In my case I showed up at 6:30 am and had my visa stamped by 11:30. This whole process takes 3 days in Bogota if you have the appointments set up correctly and show up on time in the proper dress. Do not show up in Bermuda Shorts, they will send you away and you have to go back online and reapply for a new appointment time. This whole process is helped immeasurably if you speak Spanish.
After finishing at MRE I have 15 days to appear before the DAS (similar to FBI in US) and request a national identification card called a Cedula. This costs another 145,000 pesos and takes another day, during which I get to stand in line for 2 hours at Davivienda Bank so I can make the necessary deposit and get the necessary pink receipt with the two inked stamps and my fingerprints on it.
The DAS tells me to come back in 30 days to receive my new ID card. They know damn well the card will not be there in just 30 days. Last year I waited 5 months, this year I am still waiting since July 2. I expect my new card about January or February, and of course, in the meantime I am illegal because my old card expired the month after I applied for the new one.
All of this gets repeated every year for 5 years, then I can get a 5 year visa and I only have to repeat the steps every 5th year.
I can pay a broker attorney to do all this for me and it costs about 600,000 to 800,000 each year which over 5 years amounts to about $1500-$2,000 US.
Again, this is Colombia. Compare this to Mexico, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Argentina and a dozen other Latin American countries and you will wonder why the hell anybody would choose Colombia over the others.

There are a few discrepencies in the above:
 
 First you take your official certified benefits letter to the US Embassy in Bogota where they translate it to Spanish and sign it. This service is free, but you have to have an appointment and you can only contact them between 11 am and 12 pm Monday through Thursday to request the appointment and you have to speak Spanish or have a translator to talk to the US Embassy by phone.
 As it turns out, the appointment is shared by a hundred or so other people so you wind up waiting in line most of the day for your appointment.
 
You can apply for a retirement visa (Temporal TS) while you are in the US through any Colombian consulate.
 
Nobody speaks English at the American Embassy
 
Just not true.
 
so it is necessary to either speak Spanish or have a translator accompany you. Oddly enough they will let a human translator accompany you but they will not let you take an electronic translator into the building, even if it is an American built translator in an American owned building and it is about the size of a cell phone so it obviously cannot carry a bomb bigger than what would blow your thumb off so it is not a viable threat. It is just a way the Colombianos can exert their authority over you. That is Colombia for you.
 
What do you mean the “colombianos”? You are refering to regulations at the US Emassy.
 

 I have to laugh when I pay a bill at the bank. I pay MY money to pay MY bill and they fingerprint me 4 times
 
I have never been fingerprinted more than once at a bank etc. in nine years.
 
, even though the invoice was for something like $25. Even if you go to the post office, such as it is, and post a letter they will fingerprint you at least twice. Supposedly this is to curb crime in Colombia. Then you can walk outside and hire a 15 year old kid to murder someone for you and you pay him about $200 US and because he is still a juvenile if he gets caught he does not go to prison. I recently read about a 15 year old girl in Barranquilla who has murdered 5 people and she is walking free because she is underage. She is a Hit Gal for the gang. God what a [snip]ed up country this is sometimes.
 Then you go online and request an appointment with a division of Minister Exterior Relations (MRE) where you pay a 15,000 pesos fee for a stamp that says you actually showed up at the appointed time. This visit to this division of MRE takes a full day.
 With this stamp and the receipt for your 15,000 pesos you can then go to MRE proper where you actually apply for the visa. In my case I showed up at 6:30 am and had my visa stamped by 11:30. This whole process takes 3 days in Bogota if you have the appointments set up correctly and show up on time in the proper dress.
 
This certianly must be something new. In the five years that I made annual trips to the Minesterio  De Relaciones Extranjerias in Bogota to renew my Temporal TS visa I never had to make a prior appointment online or pay for it.
 
 Do not show up in Bermuda Shorts, they will send you away and you have to go back online and reapply for a new appointment time. This whole process is helped immeasurably if you speak Spanish.
 After finishing at MRE I have 15 days to appear before the DAS (similar to FBI in US) and request a national identification card called a Cedula. This costs another 145,000 pesos and takes another day, during which I get to stand in line for 2 hours at Davivienda Bank so I can make the necessary deposit and get the necessary pink receipt with the two inked stamps and my fingerprints on it.
 The DAS tells me to come back in 30 days to receive my new ID card. They know damn well the card will not be there in just 30 days. Last year I waited 5 months, this year I am still waiting since July 2. I expect my new card about January or February, and of course, in the meantime I am illegal because my old card expired the month after I applied for the new one.
 
No you´re not illegal.
 

 All of this gets repeated every year for 5 years, then I can get a 5 year visa and I only have to repeat the steps every 5th year.
 
After five years of renewing the Temporal TS Pensionado visa you receive a Permanent Resident Visa. What you must renew every five years from then on is your cedula.
 
I can pay a broker attorney to do all this for me and it costs about 600,000 to 800,000 each year which over 5 years amounts to about $1500-$2,000 US.
 Again, this is Colombia. Compare this to Mexico, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Argentina and a dozen other Latin American countries and you will wonder why the hell anybody would choose Colombia over the others.
 

[robert angel]

I've only entered Colombia through Cartagena and Bogota but in both places was stamped 60 days. I've a friend who entered through Bogota and got 30 and another friend through Medellin and got 60. It seems to be the norm at 60 and I'd be surprised to get 90 at any airport now.

Whitey,

I'm glad. It's been forever since I lived in Ontario, but the mail service was really slow back then, especially compared to back in the USA. I heard at the local post office from a P.O. employee ( a biased source, no doubt) that Canada stopped regular Saturday mail delivery--is that true? I think its just a matter of time before the USA does..
Seems a lot of things have turned around since I lived there. I  remember getting close to a $1.40 Canadian for each US dollar---for a while now, the Canadian dollar has been worth more than the US dollar, although the Australian dollar REALLY whacks the US dollar in comparison. Filipinos love those Aussie dollars!

I'll bet that if you're traveling any distance, the Canadian railway system still makes the USA's look pretty sorry. I remember traveling 'regular class' and them handing out boxed snacks of croissants and really good hard, sharp cheddar cheese and the trains ran at much faster speeds than US trains.

 I know you don't really care for the hustle and bustle of Toronto, but you have to admit that as international and crowded as it is, it's a great town for 'people watching'. I don't think I've ever swum in any water colder than that of Canada's Thunder Bay, on Lake Superior--I think by the time the ice has all melted (if it ever does) it's winter again! I have even seen the Northern Lights up there--quite a sight.

The Canadian people, almost to a one, have always been super nice--my sons have fond memories of 'Oh Canada' as well--in fact, they don't want me to throw out their 'Canada' T Shirts and vividly remember meeting the Toronto Maple Leaf's coach and him rolling his eyes to the ceiling when we mentioned the Red Wings!
 
One of these days, we hope to revisit Toronto, as well as visit Montreal. A dream trip would be to take the train from Montreal to the gorgeous mountains of Banff and maybe even onto Vancouver--'coast to coast--although Montreal's not on the coast. I wonder if the trains run out of Halifax'?
 

[benjio]

Jim D/Andy Lee,
 
Not that I'm discounting either or your experiences in Colombia, because I have no experience with trying to stay there permantly. But I'm definitely happy to have two points of view on this subject.
 
First thing, as I stated before, I've never even heard of a 30 day Visa in Colombia. That must be a direct flight from Miami to Medellin thing. In that case, I can understand the Colombians desire to get rid of gringos as soon as possible, as I believe most of them flying directly into Medellin are mongers anyway.
 
Andy's comment about no one speaking English at the U.S. Embassy was also very odd to me, because I was trying to get a job at the embassy for a year, and the positions I was applying for were reserved for Americans. I'm assuming they'd be bilingual at the least.
 
If the two of you have encountered differing requirments to renew residency documentation that doesn't surprise me at all. You'll never find a country more inconsistent than Colombia when it comes to government matters.
 
Did the consulate ever open in Cartegena? I heard rumors of it when I was posting on Gringos but I'm not sure if it ever happened. Supposedly they were going to handle everything except marriage related visas at that location but not sure if it opened. Especially with all the cutbacks the country is trying to make.
 
As much as I complain about the U.S.P.S., I'm one of the few people that still pay some bills through the mail. More than a couple of days from Houston to anywhere in the U.S. is odd, and I've never gotten a letter lost in the mail. I know for a fact it happens, but it's never happened to me. My problem with the post office is the customer service at the locations. Try getting something weighed to send to a foreign country and you're treated like a convict on his first day of arrival to prison. About the only thing they do well is solicit stamp sales.
 
The railway system in the United States was not built for human transportantion. That was the idea at first, but after the transcontinental railroad was completed, the industrial revolution started soon afterwards. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I think at that point railroads in the U.S. were geared more towards industry. If that wasn't the case Europe, Canada, and various countries in Asia wouldn't be able to boast a much more impressive rail transportation system. After Henry Ford revolutionized the assembly line, there was no reason to even worry about the establishment of a cross-continental transportation system until recently. The interstates were built before, during and after the second World War and that was a wrap for railroads in the U.S.

[beginthebeguin]

benjio said

The railway system in the United States was not built for human transportantion. That was the idea at first, but after the transcontinental railroad was completed, the industrial revolution started soon afterwards. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I think at that point railroads in the U.S. were geared more towards industry. If that wasn't the case Europe, Canada, and various countries in Asia wouldn't be able to boast a much more impressive rail transportation system. After Henry Ford revolutionized the assembly line, there was no reason to even worry about the establishment of a cross-continental transportation system until recently. The interstates were built before, during and after the second World War and that was a wrap for railroads in the U.S.

Amtrak only owns some track between D.C. and NewYork (the Eastern Corridor). All other track right of way has to be negotiated with the major rail companies. And the reason why they are more often than not late is because the major rail corps have the right of way for freight. Freight takes precedence over Amtrak except on the Eastern Corridor. In the days before rail consolidation and Amtrak the individual rail companies had their own passenger trains and gave precedence to passenger traffic. 
Only way the EE.UU. will have a resergence in passenger rail is if new rail right-of-ways are established. If China and Japan and Germany can do this why not the EE.UU.? Simple corrupt politics.
I would suspect that now Agentina has a better passenger rail system than the EE.UU..

[whitey]

Whitey,

I'm glad. It's been forever since I lived in Ontario, but the mail service was really slow back then, especially compared to back in the USA. I heard at the local post office from a P.O. employee ( a biased source, no doubt) that Canada stopped regular Saturday mail delivery--is that true? I think its just a matter of time before the USA does..

Hey Rob - I don't remember ever having Saturday service here.  Maybe a long time ago, but I have no memory of it.  It's kind of a relief not to get more bills on the weekend ... hahaha.

Seems a lot of things have turned around since I lived there. I  remember getting close to a $1.40 Canadian for each US dollar---for a while now, the Canadian dollar has been worth more than the US dollar, although the Australian dollar REALLY whacks the US dollar in comparison. Filipinos love those Aussie dollars!

Yeah, it wasn't too long ago that our dollar was only worth 60-something cents US.  Now we're at $103 or thereabouts.  Makes the cross border shopping (for us) a lot cheaper, but really cuts down on the US tourism.  Sadly, the Colombian peso is outrunning us as well as the US dollar.

I'll bet that if you're traveling any distance, the Canadian railway system still makes the USA's look pretty sorry. I remember traveling 'regular class' and them handing out boxed snacks of croissants and really good hard, sharp cheddar cheese and the trains ran at much faster speeds than US trains.

I don't ride the rail much, but I like it.  About 15 years ago when I was working for a bank, I was sent to Toronto from London for 3 days every week and travelled via the Via One service.  First class, good food on china with real cutlery, free drinks including cognac after dinner (I would usually have a nice buzz by the time I got home at night!).  Loved it!

I know you don't really care for the hustle and bustle of Toronto, but you have to admit that as international and crowded as it is, it's a great town for 'people watching'. I don't think I've ever swum in any water colder than that of Canada's Thunder Bay, on Lake Superior--I think by the time the ice has all melted (if it ever does) it's winter again! I have even seen the Northern Lights up there--quite a sight.

Toronto is nice to visit, but too big and too much traffic for me to live there.  I think over 50% of the population is immigrant, so great people watching for me as there are many young and exotic looking women.  Most of the best looking and best dressed ones I saw there the last time were asian.

The Canadian people, almost to a one, have always been super nice--my sons have fond memories of 'Oh Canada' as well--in fact, they don't want me to throw out their 'Canada' T Shirts and vividly remember meeting the Toronto Maple Leaf's coach and him rolling his eyes to the ceiling when we mentioned the Red Wings!

Most of us are fairly nice most of the time, a little quieter and maybe a little more boring than Americans.  I've always been treated really well in the States ... except for that one time I was wearing a pink Sex Wax surfer shirt in a truck stop/fireworks store in Tennessee (true story).  Got some pretty scary looks and was really glad to get out of there alive (cue the Deliverance banjo)!

One of these days, we hope to revisit Toronto, as well as visit Montreal. A dream trip would be to take the train from Montreal to the gorgeous mountains of Banff and maybe even onto Vancouver--'coast to coast--although Montreal's not on the coast. I wonder if the trains run out of Halifax'?

Don't forget to stop off in London on your way.  We'll hit a hockey game, drink some Labbat's beer and Crown Royal rye whiskey ... and Nazly will probably cook up some part of a cow I've never seen before ...

OK, now back to Ecuador ...

[JimD]

If the two of you have encountered differing requirments to renew residency documentation...

The authenticated letter from your pension source showing that you recieve a minimum of three salarios minimos ($535.600 x 3=$1'606.800) divded by an exchange rate of about $1.760 = $912 US is the principal reuirement. When I applied a police report from my home county was also required.

[JimD]

Don't forget to stop off in London on your way.

Hey Whitey I was in Dundalk some months back, you know it? My cousin's got a farm outside of town.

[whitey]

Hey Whitey I was in Dundalk some months back, you know it? My coisin's got a farm outside of town.

I've heard of it ... just a small little town.  I may have blown through it on my way up skiing in Collingwood, or on my way to the lake.  Probably about a 2 hour drive from me ...