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Author Topic: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"  (Read 26040 times)

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Offline aconcepts

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2011, 10:22:47 AM »
I see there is a lot of action on this topic. I hope my deleted post inspired some action on what I believe to be THE MOST IMPORTANT TOPIC. THE DENIGRATION, VILIFICATION, BELITTLING OF MEN which is the rot that eats at the foundation of the USA.

It is also what makes people run airplanes into big buildings (that and the unchecked power of the IRS/ whole different subject). Follow me for a second.

Women wear veils in other societies so they cannot appeal to men’s biological need to procreate. They cannot use/abuse those needs if they are covered.

I hear a lot of stuff regarding men using women for sex. Ha! What about women using men for money – through sex by taking advantage of our inherent need to procreate????

I know it sounds different but think about what I wrote there for a second. Reread it.

Muslims cover their women. Why?

Do you think Muslims don’t like looking a nude women. The 9/11 hijackers spent there last night on earth at a strip club.

Its not that they do not like a woman naked body. It is that they fear the power of a woman’s naked body. They feel it needs to be controlled. If not you are looking for trouble. Does anybody remember those Bible stories???

Sex sells right. US women and soon the rest of the world’s women are using the sex sells power to first seduce men into going against their fellow man, and now they have reached positions of power in the media/Hollywood that they are portraying men as dumb and weak.

z_k_g post on this subject was one of the best posts I have ever read regarding the eradications of men being men.

“As a taxista put it to me one day.....you guys come here and marry the women that a colombian gardener would not marry. jajaja!!!”

Why is this so true?” It is because men have sunk so low in the US box that they cannot see any other option inside the box. When they get out of the box, they see that things are different and they run at the first option they see. It’s like being incarcerated for 2 years. As soon as you get out of jail, any woman is attractive.

“I chosen to 'go my own way', but I won't pretend that the situation doesn't annoy me to some extent, as I don't feel it's good for our nation as a whole, especially not for our children.”

This is why I am so worried about this: the children are being character slaughtered, made effeminate before they have a chance to develop a character.

It’s like the way many Arab countries portray Jews to children by giving them comic books that call the bad guy in the story “The Jew.”

In the US the bad guy in the story now is “The Man.” That’s how it reads to the children.

Someone said they are not concerned about men’s portrayal and betrayal. For the kid’s sake, if not their own, they should be.

“Oh come off it Calipro. How long have men been portrayed as idiots in movies and on television. The reason? Because men don't complain about it. “

That is right and they don’t complain about spousal abuse either. Men are routinely struck by women and it is just seen as “routine.” Like the beating of an animal. No, animals have more protection against cruelty than men do. I stand corrected (by myself).

"If you buy that man is nothing without woman then guess what – you are nothing" Yes “belief” and what you hold to be true in your heart, not your spin, is the basis of character development. 

“…, Aconcepts, your quote "If you buy that man is nothing without woman then guess what – you are nothing" is so on-the-ball (typo permitting) it should be the basis of a logical pre-condition for any guy signing up to P-L.”

Men have fallen into the sex trap. The withholding of sex to manipulate men or the giving of sex to manipulate men is veiled prostitution.

Withholding it makes men needy. In healthy societies where there is plenty of sex, and men are not needy. I lived in Cuba for several years on a yacht in the Marina Hemingway. Cuba is full of sex. Full of it. The brotherhood among Cuban men is beautiful. They know they can have sex whenever they want it and would almost never betray their brothers for sex, and the Cuban women are agreeable and like it. They also do not use it as a tool. Why? Because there is too much competition, there is sex everywhere. Too many women that actually like sex for sex. The women in Cuba have been brought up in a more natural and humane way.

Then, there is the sex for gain inside committed marriages/relationships. Has anyone experienced this; “you’ll get none tonight!” It’s all over the TV and is very inhumane. Emotional violence. But it’s mainstream now. It’s accepted that sex is a commodity to be traded inside committed relationships. Just like the woman kicking the man in the groin is accepted for a laugh.

What it really is is veiled prostitution.

I saved this one for last because I agree with it. I also disagree completely regarding the remark that the poster lacked confidence. The original poster has the confidence and courage to speak out against men being portrayed/betrayed as needy losers. The be silent no big deal position is complicit.


“Took a super hot calena half my age  to see it and was never more embarrassed to be an american in my life.  I hate movies that show the world just how bad we have it here. Jejeje”

BTW to the poster who wrote the above (Jejejeje or Jijijiji is a woman’s laugh in my part of Latin America / Jajaja is a man’s laugh / FYI only….

All US men that accept this quietly should be ashamed they do not speak up about this. It’s pitiful. That is why I claimed that my lifelong friends there have been turned into women because they will not speak up or complain about attacking men.

I finish with a word on men’s character and confidence:

Character is by your self definition. You choose it. It is personal. I am not about to define character to you.

I can define confidence to you. Confidence is your ability to remain true to your character (the behavior that defines you) under adverse conditions. When men allow women to change their character for sex, when a man can be seduced to act out of character to please his woman (or anybody else). Than he lacks confidence.

Confidence is what you know you can do. / Cockiness is what you think you can do.

Big difference.

To sacrifice your character for women or sex is to be needy.

Anyone who does that is a looser.

A needy loser.

Look at the men in the movies, they run around overwhelmed by women and the possibility of having sex with them. They do all kinds of asinine things to get next to them. They would walk on their lips through busted glass. The epitome of a needy loser.

I am well sick of it. Men need to unite against this and speak out! Call BS when you see it and tell your kids that you do not approve of the needy loser stereotype. It’s real and it’s dangerous.
"but we who knew that different truths can coexist thought not that we were lowering ourselves by countenancing another's truth, unpalatable though it might seem."

Offline z_k_g

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2011, 03:36:36 PM »
Then, there is the sex for gain inside committed marriages/relationships. Has anyone experienced this; “you’ll get none tonight!” It’s all over the TV and is very inhumane. Emotional violence. But it’s mainstream now. It’s accepted that sex is a commodity to be traded inside committed relationships. Just like the woman kicking the man in the groin is accepted for a laugh.

What it really is is veiled prostitution.

aconcepts,

You seem to be up on the latest Feminist agenda.

What most men don't realize is that the Fems have a national agenda to force state legislatures to enact laws that will enforce so called "marriage rape". 

This is similar to the onerous date rape statues that have been placed on the books by the fems and their paid off and co-opted male political allies.

For those of us who don't understand the new "date rape" laws passed over the last 10 years, let me explain.

In brief, If you have consentual sex with a woman and she raises no initial objection to your knowledge whatsoever and then days, weeks, months or even years later (there is no legal statues of limitation) she "feels" like she was raped, then she can bring charges against you, legally!

Yes, That's The Fact Jack!

This interpretation of "date rape" based on "feelings" is a direct denial of the males constitutional rights.  Why?  There is no evidence, no way to even know you have commited a crime.  You can be arrested, spend months in jail and your reputation can be destroyed because a woman may "feel" spurned by you not calling her back after a "one nite stand".

This particular battle is already lost, these and similar laws are already on the books.   

But as I mentioned earlier, the Fems are not finished.  They want husbands to be held to the same standard as a "date". 

In other words, if a wife "feels" that her husband has forced her to have sex, she can, at any time she pleases, one day, one week or one year later report the "crime".

Fems want women to dictate when "sex" happens and have ensure the wife is the final decision maker because she can always withhold sex to get her way.   If the man objects, the the wife can threaten to report "marriage rape" to ensure his compliance.   If the husband continues to be a problem and refuses to be cucked or a bitchboy, then she just reports the "marriage rape" and she now cashes in.

Sex is not traded as a commodity......

Sex is Control, and the Fems want women to use it to gain an upper hand in their relationships.

The Feminist agenda is infused in every aspect of American life.  Certain words are demonized and villified in our language and you are attacked if you dare use them.

What words?

king-- A man cannot refer to himself as king of his castle/home/abode- he will be attacked viciously by brain washed men who have drank the Fem "men and women are equal" purple kool-aid. 

leader-- A man cannot be the leader (the person who makes the FINAL decision) in his family- he must be "partners" with his wife (what a pussy).  Any context where a man is implied to lead his family is discouraged and frowned upon.

submissive-- A woman cannot be submissive- need I say more.  This word is at the top of the Fem shyt list. There are many other words, but SUBMISSIVE is the most vilified.  Dare use this word around an American woman and you may wind up like John Wayne Bobbit.

Most American women are not even aware of their role in our demise as real men.  They are just going by script and asserting their equal rights with men.  Our women rejected the traditional roles of women in the workplace and society and embraced the inclusion that is inherent in appreciating women's equal rights.  This was a good thing because we have some talented women that were finally able to bring that talent to the American landscape.  On this level it was a good thing.

But I think that the a lot of American woman did us, their families, and the entire country, a significant disservice when they rejected the traditional family.  When they over corrected and started to choose (encouraged by Fems) careers over homemaking.  Our families suffered.

This "Career Woman" carrot is how the Fems attracted women to join their agenda-  promise them power.  "You can pursue that career, make the big bucks and your husband (or a nanny) can raise the kids."

They have delivered on their promises and American women now dominate not only the landscape of business and corporate America but also at HOME.

Well this is what Fems intended.  They fully recognized that at the end of the day there is no middle ground, and the stakes are very high, they gained the trust and allegience of generations of American women. 

Men must take this challenge just as serious and fight back.

If we don't, we will find ourselves to be 100% of the "grunt" soldiers on the front line fighting the wars, construction workers, plumbers and any and all other work that our "equals" women can't or don't want to do, and women will be the CEO's, Doctors, Engineers and Lawyers.

Our sons will be the prom queens, marry into "partnerships", wear panties and get cucked every Saturday nite by their cougar wives AFTER they cook dinner, put the kids to bed, wash dishes and draw their wives bathwater.

We can complain all day, but its time for Men to be Men.

So...take sides!

Then.....Lead, Follow, or get out of the damn way!!

Zulu
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

Offline fathertime

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2011, 04:34:16 PM »
This is all interesting talk especially about the women holding men over a barrel since they hold the key to procreation...i never really thought about it in those terms...
too many men pussyfoot around with the women, and wind up wasting years/decades of their short lives...


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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2011, 04:34:16 PM »

Offline jm21-2

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2011, 05:08:25 PM »
As someone who has read literature from all ages and several countries, and who regularly watches foreign cinema, I'd say....things are pretty much normal. You can go read a 19th century short story with the drunk husband being whacked over the head with a frying pan or whatever any time you want. I'm watching a Korean show where the female lead is a total bitch and forces the male lead to work as her maid/housekeeper, eventually turning down the "alpha males" and going for the wimpy guy who dotes on her.In most countries and most times it's pretty damn similar.


Yes, some laws are not really fair and women spend a lot of money lobbying...but most of that is to do with child support from what I've seen. And that's coming back to bite them as the culture changes. When women figure out how much child and spousal support they will be paying to their "house hubby" they are not thrilled. Date rape accusations are a problem primarily due to the overblown fear of sex offenders.


ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed and stick it in her whenever he damn well pleases....I'm not sure how many guys would agree with that...

Offline JimD

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 05:34:19 PM »


ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed...
I would have added "kicking and" before screaming in the above post but a fresh roll of duct tape would address both issues.
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Offline Researcher

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2011, 09:27:47 PM »

   I don't know if I agree 100% with this video but it does make some interesting points.


     

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac5ynrMo2oM


       Researcher
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 09:33:26 PM by Researcher »
Every man has his own courage, and is betrayed because he seeks in himself the courage of other persons. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline z_k_g

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2011, 09:43:15 PM »
ZKG, you seem to be arguing that it's fine for a guy to toss his crying, screaming, objecting wife on the bed and stick it in her whenever he damn well pleases....I'm not sure how many guys would agree with that...

Jm,
 
I would never advocate or condone forcing sex on any woman and my post does not imply or suggest that, period.
 
Sex and Love should be freely given by both sides.  And as far as the spouse is concerned, she knows her responsibility as you wife. She should live up to it freely without threat, coersion or duress, or end the relationship.
 
What my post does strongly imply, is that you should carefully chose your wife and your choice should be based on a woman who embraces, understands her role and accepts you as the leader of the house and the final decision maker.  If you make a wise choice initially, then you will minimize (but not totally eliminate) her using the "pussy power play" possibility.
 
Not totally?
 
Well, a woman (or man) should NEVER use sex (or money) as a manipulation tool, but the reality is that most women do to some exent, its too be expected. 
 
The issue is intent.  If her intent does not involve some premeditated agenda to usurp your leadership of the family and turn you into a bitchboy and cuck you, then I really don't see a an issue.  You just gotta be romantic or do the dishes some nites.
 
My post clearly suggests that if a woman resorts to 'pussy power play" to usurp your leadrship then you should either correct her inappropriate behavior (an impossible task if she has been co-opted by the Fems) or end the relationship. 
 
Zulu
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

Offline CeeTeeEnn

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2011, 11:40:09 PM »
Interesting times we have here on P-L...

The post aconcepts makes describing men as "animals" is difficult to reconcile with my ideas of men standing up to the agenda of misandry in the Western media. I, for one, certainly do not see myself as an animal but as an a more advanced being capable of using my mind to control and manage primitive biological urges. It's not beyond menfolk; it merely requires a strong mind. Hence if women (who are also possessed by similar primitive urges, albeit ones manifesting themselves in subtlely different ways) should ever choose to use sexual rationing as a "weapon" against us (apologies to Pat Benatar) then we are surely in a position to reciprocate if need be. Indeed, the very existence of this forum, coupled to numerous statistical analyses showing an over-abundance of single women in most Western cities, is surely evidence for this already happening on a macroscopic scale.

While the subject of rape (of any description within marriage or otherwise) is a very serious one, I am quietly confident that any subvertive moves to use rape as a legal weapon against menfolk will be thwarted by the safeguards already built into most modern legal systems. For example, here in the UK a jury trying a rape case must be convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty before returning their verdict. The prosecuting authorities and legal professionals are fully aware of this, and the difficulty in proving a man's guilt in cases where one person's word stands against another's is a major obstacle (for better or worse ) for any woman hoping to use rape as a legal weapon against her partner. Moreover, I believe that any legal moves to lower the burden of guilt in such cases would most certainly fall foul of constitutional safeguards put in place to protect the presumption of a defendant's innocence. For reasons such as these, rape continues to have one of the lowest conviction rates of any of the "major" crimes comitted here in the UK - thankfully our jurours still have the common sense to conclude that a woman accusing her partner of rape is at best either one who allowed herself to be put into an uncomfortable position in the first place (i deliberately include those in arranged marriages) or at worst a vindictive harlot.

As for the roles of media and advertising in spreading misandry, I am also conservatively optimistic. We already see the internet decimating the power and influence of the music record labels. In the near future we will surely see the same happening to Hollywood and TV channels as broadband democratises the media and allows us all to choose exactly what content to consume, and manage the flow of advertising accordingly. Recent reports all seem to point at steady declines in revenue from TV advertising on commercial channels; something the current Western economic recession (don't get me started..) will surely exacerbate. Further to this, we are also seeing the rise of male-orientated TV channels; and example is Dave in the UK, though many sat/cable sports channels could be viewed similarly. Though i don't follow such channels actively, I would suggest that there is surely scope for enterprising advertisers to pander to men's sense of gratification by portraying women in their ads, aimed for these channels, as sexy/quiet/cooperative/alluring/exotic etc. - everything that women shown in the mainstream media are not. As well as bringing a welcome breath or fresh air, such a ruse would give a nasty poke in the eye to those with misandrist agendas!

And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.

Offline Zon

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2011, 06:12:54 AM »
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.

Offline z_k_g

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2011, 09:57:21 AM »
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.

Zon,

Good points worth investigating.

Zulu
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

Offline jm21-2

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2011, 11:31:04 AM »
ZKG,


The statutes you mentioned previously (date rape and marital rape) are usually only dealing with the issue of consent. If there is someone who is so dead-set against that as it appeared from your prior posts, one would think you would want the consent issue removed, especially in the marital context, thus making non-consensual sex perfectly legal in marriage. I have a feeling you simply don't know what you're talking about though.


Zon,


There are plenty of studies that also say a single father is a better parent than a single mother (I suspect due to it being more difficult for a man to get custody). Yes more women are going to college, but a college degree is worth less and less. Skilled laborers such as plumbers and electricians already are making much more than college grads and many professionals and will continue to make more as higher education becomes more and more worthless. Perhaps guys are actually on top of their game with that one. In China with the one child policy you had families picking boys over girls....and with less girls the girls could be more demanding of future spouses.


The recent changes are more of a pendulum swing than a revolution.

Offline JimD

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2011, 11:54:27 AM »
La femme chilena:
"Do you know what the difference between a politician and a lady is?" President Pinera asked at the closing meeting in Tuxtla.
"When a politicians says 'Yes', he means 'maybe', when he says 'maybe', he means 'No', and if he says 'No', he's not a politician," he continued.
"When a lady says 'No', she means 'maybe', when she says 'maybe', she means 'Yes', and if she says 'Yes', she's not a lady'," he said, as some in the audience laughed.
'Shameful remark'
Opposition Senator Ximena Rincon said the president had brought shame on Chile and asked him to outline his government's view of women.
"Remarks like these are an affront to women and an embarrassment for this country, in terms of gender politics, they set us back some 20 years," she said.
She also asked Women's Minister Carolina Schmidt to comment.
Ms Schmidt wrote on her Twitter account that the president liked to crack jokes, but that this one had not amused her.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16063229
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Offline z_k_g

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2011, 12:57:08 PM »
ZKG,
The statutes you mentioned previously (date rape and marital rape) are usually only dealing with the issue of consent.

The issue of consent is no longer required to convict or for a grand jury to find reasonable cause to bring an indictment against a man for rape, attempted rape, sexual battery or many of the new sexual crimes put on the books for this exact purpose.

A woman merely has to tell police investigators that she "feels" like she was raped, even after she concedes that she agreed to the sexual encounter.

If there is someone who is so dead-set against that as it appeared from your prior posts, one would think you would want the consent issue removed, especially in the marital context, thus making non-consensual sex perfectly legal in marriage.

I clarified my position Jm and now you are simply pandering.

Once again, I have not written anywhere, hinted, inferred, argued or suggested that anyone be forced to do anything without their 100% consent.

I have never argued and will never ague that man can DEMAND or EXPECT unconsensual sex with his wife.

If you read my post, what I am dead set against are laws that are unconstitutional, illegal and unfair towards men.  I am also dead set against gender based prosecution that assumes guilt based on someone's feelings. 

The last time I checked there was no law that protects your feelings, yet feelings can now be used as the the basis for prosecution on the charge of a sexual related crime.

This is unfair and a violation of basic due process, equal protection under the law and the basic assumption of innocent until proven guilty.

I have a feeling you simply don't know what you're talking about though.

Your feelings are your feelings, P-L is a great place to express them.

I have a feeling you don't know much about this particular aspect of criminal law and your questions about my posts make that obvious. 

Do some research like any good lawyer.  Enlighten yourself with some relevant case law you may learn something and your "feelings" about my post may change.

Also, if you need further clarification of my position, just ask directly, no need to infer anything.

But I will make this clear to you, because what you continue to suggest about my position is quite irresponsible in light of my explicit clarification in my previous post.

NOTHING I have written in 2 years on P-L would imply or suggest that any man has the right to force a woman to do anything whatsoever. 

Further, If a man (or woman) does not have 100% consent from the other person, and they fully understand this, then I consider that encounter forced and illegal, irregardless if they are married or not.

Once again, I have spoken very clearly and adroitly about this issue.

Whatever additional inferences you have come to are your OWN and are INCORRECT.

Zulu
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 01:29:16 PM by z_k_g »
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2011, 12:57:08 PM »

Offline jm21-2

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2011, 01:53:05 PM »
ZKG,


Can you at least give a state or states? I've never heard of date rape being defined that way. It used to be that there was often a requirement that the woman actively resist sex in order for the guy to be charged with rape. Date rape statutes were put in place to deal with the situation where the woman said no but didn't resist (for example out of fear it would be worse if she resisted), or was incapacitated due to drugs or alcohol and so didn't resist.


I did a search on google for date rape and every definition I saw described date rape as forced or non-consensual sex.


It also used to be that having forced sex with your wife was legal in pretty much every state. (EDIT: Re-read your post and saw this question answered) If you think that if a spouse rapes the other spouse it should be a crime (which is not clear from your posts) then you have been brainwashed by the feminists.  If you don't think it should be a crime then say it clearly.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 02:37:13 PM by jm21-2 »

Offline z_k_g

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2011, 04:35:02 PM »
Jm,

I have clarified every point you have raised concerning my position.

Also, you obviously are missing the entire point of my post.

You seem to be focused on a singular objective of refuting and drawing tangential conclusions concerning whether, in fact, consent is necessary to levy sexual assault charges.

Then, you close with an accusation of my brainwashing?

Jm, If you force (without 100% consent) a woman or man to have sex then that is rape and a crime, period no matter what the circumstances, married or not. 

This position is the shared by most all moral people in a civilized society. 

Good moral judgement does NOT align me with, or prove that I am, "brainwashed" by any particular group or organization as you have indicated. 

You logic is flawed and quite frankly, ABSURD.

The discussion is ABOUT "needy losers", and in that context my original post is very clear:

My argument:

Women use sex to manipulate and gain power thereby rendering men to be "needy losers".

In today's political environment the Feminists have influenced the passing of laws that allow for illegal and unfair prosecution of men based on a woman's "feelings" after the fact. 

Law enforcements or grand juries can levy any number of sexual assault charges ranging from misdemeanors assault to felony rape even if she "fully consents" to the initial sexual act and changed her mind and waited to report the "crime" some time later.

The charge of sexual assault can be levied even though there was full "consent" and participation or even marriage, if a woman feels, a day, week, month or year later that she was sexually violated. 

In other words, a female can now change her mind and her "full consent" to "non consent" after the fact!  That's f*cked up!

This open door is a recipe for abuse. 

In my opinion, this was premeditated by Fems to have another tool to take leadership and enforce their position and render men "needy losers".

So, If an non-consensual violent sexual assault has take place, that's a crime, whether you are Feminist or not.

If a consensual act has taken place and a wife (or gf) can now arbitrarily use the perpetual "threat of prosecution" against a man who pisses them off or don't do as they are told, then I consider that's "pussy power play" and an integral weapon against men.

Our present laws allow this type injustice.

I consider this wrong, illegal and in my opinion, Unconstitutional.

Zulu
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 04:43:39 PM by z_k_g »
Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

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Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other -"sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful-just stupid.) RAH

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2011, 06:53:48 PM »
Jm I'm sorry to tell you that you have much to learn about reality of this subject.
You are not alone in that.
However you could do yourself a good service to come up to speed with how these thigns are implemented in the courts.
What Zulu is telling you is spot on but you do not need to take his word for it. That is what the internet is for.

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2011, 07:28:24 PM »
It is not a USA thing, it is a Western word thing and it has been going on for far too long.

http://blogs.theage.com.au/moderntimes/archives/2008/09/open_season_on_men.html

However the national past time of man bashing is the least of our worries.

In fact here in Australia it is literally open season on men. There have been several cases in the last year in different states of women murdering their husbands and serving no jail time at all. In most cases it was because the man was going to leave them. I suspect they realised too late that they had married into a prison.

In one case the man was accused of domestic violence. No evidence of domestic violence was ever produced and of course the man was dead and therefore unable to defend himself. She stabed and multilated him over a period of at least an hour while he slowly died of torture. There was some evidence that he must have been begging her to spare his life. She was not even given a conviction.

In one case a woman decided her husband was having an affair. No evidence of an affair was ever produced. She poured fuel on his penis and set him alight. He died of horrific burns to most of his body. She was conviced only of manslaughter and served no time in jail at all.

In another case a man told his wife he was leaving her. His crime: he ripped up a photo of the two of them. She stabed him 15 times. She actually wrote a note admitting that if she couldn't have him no one could have him. She claimed her emotional state meant that she was not responsible for her actions. She served no time at all.

Thousands of fathers are ruined and loose their children here every week because his ex-wife claims "I feel threatened". No evidence of any violence of any kind or any allegation of violence is required. Only that the ex-wife claims to feel threatened.

So when I tell you it is open season on men here. I mean exactly that.
Open season.


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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2011, 07:35:46 PM »
The first step is to be smart enough to notice.   This is not just pop fad like disco.

It benefits a man to look at the depth and scope of the change in first world countries.  If you read some of the articles I posted up thread, you see that there is an enrollment gender gap in universities - more women are getting higher education and performing better.  You see that the preference / choice of a "girl" rather than a "boy" has flip flopped over the last decade.   You see that women, all things being equal, perform better in a "management society".  There is also social scientific evidence that even suggests that two women make superior parents as compared to the traditional view of a man and women.  Then, there is legal issues favoring women.  Taken together, this is not just stuff to be talked about over a beer.  These are fundamental social changes occurring largely unnoticed.

To talk about sex's role in all this is only a sub-set.

I am not saying it is right, or wrong, (it is too late for debate) - IT JUST IS.

I agree with zon on the idea that these changes are not a fad. The rest of his post is nonsense or shall I say "zonsense"...same thing. I think JM has some valid points when looking at the whole picture. The reason I don't worry too much about it is because people don't seem to seek to change anything unless they are directly affected by it. Look at the Tea Party movement and the recent OWS movement. There have always been problems with our political and economic system but no one really gave a crap until these problems showed up on people's doorsteps. It's the same thing for men. Men know that laws are being passed that are heavily influenced by feminists but they let it slide. Things are going to have to get worse before they get better. Meanwhile, I'm sitting back with my arm around my foreign wife watching the show!
Every man has his own courage, and is betrayed because he seeks in himself the courage of other persons. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2011, 09:24:26 PM »
I agree with zon on the idea that these changes are not a fad. The rest of his post is nonsense or shall I say "zonsense"..


you just coined a new phrase old man! 


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Offline aconcepts

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2011, 08:06:00 AM »
 Researcher, your justification for things remaining the same is the worst kind of rationalization, the kinds that promotes static behavior. Oh, you are just there watching haha. Things will have to get worse hahah. Men or people never do anything until their selfishness is threatened, oh, it just zonsense. Can you be any more passive/negative(which by the way according to Taoist philosophy are female traits (Yin)? But then again as we get older estrogen levels rise in men.


Here a consciousness is being raised and you pupu it.


“The reason I don't worry too much about it is because people don't seem to seek to change anything unless they are directly affected by it.”


That is the exact reason you should worry. And more importantly get up and do something about it.
The world changes one person at a time. You are the most effective agent of change. If you act.


Do you read this stuff you write before you post it. Look I don’t post if I got nothing to add to the plot. You post this stuff just to be caught up in the vacuum of the progression. It’s more like a spoke in the wheel. You and Jim just don’t get it. More concerned with your point of views and your rightness than the very real male character assassination that is happening in western cultures. Clearly you two put your self-importance above the most serious problem. Pure selfishness.


What ZKG is talking about when he clearly defines the problems and his views of them is feelings are no reason to justify charging someone with a crime. In my deleted post I said, to get over thin skin.


Women don’t. They stew about it and then plot. They tell themselves stories and believe them. Then by telling the same story to themselves over and over the wound-up offense become so large and they chose to FEEL so abused that they lash out. Yes I am yelling that the emperor has no clothes. So will I be censured for it?


It was spot on what that president said about politicians and women. US women really get a rise (and I mean that all puns intended) when I say to them “don’t worry I speak chick talk.” That is a murky language where this means that and feelings are as important as logic.


Why women do not like what the president said is that it addresses an intuitive part of them, as opposed to a politicians actions which is done for a logical reason. Women think/behave in that way because of an organic reason. When that weakness/defect (and yes it is a weakness/defect) is exposed, they object. They call foul. You are not allowed to yell, “the emperor has no clothes.” You are just supposed to be a good little man and keep your mouth shut while everyone sees the issue  - but you just can’t speak it.


CTN wrote what I think may be the most important paragraph in this thread.


“And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.”


Men continually cave to women. I don’t know if I made this point in my PL deleted post (which I still have no idea as to why it was deleted or as to what the forum rules are???/ I am assuming women complained or a pairless male. And yes I sent an email asking why which was never answered), but so many men buy into the happy wife/happy life BS.



There is a huge difference between happy and satisfied. Your wife maybe happy if you are a yesy man, yes mami, yes putsy, yes boo, yes goddess, but she will never feel satisfied by it.


Satisfaction is a lasting deep feeling the touches security issues.


Women want to be commanded. They want to be led. Just like children, they find security in a man’s leadership.


Its part of being submissive. Its part of being Yin. Its part of being feminine organically. Unless a woman feels security through a man’s leadership in a relationship, she will be insecure. She can be happy with getting her way and still feel insecure. Until she feels secure and protected by a man, she will never feel satisfied.


So men, assume your masculinity and do as CTN suggested. Be a manly man not a girly man. Your male and female children will thank you for it. Your woman will thank you. Don’t idly stand by and wait for the next guy to do it while you hold your woman’s hand and chuckle.
"but we who knew that different truths can coexist thought not that we were lowering ourselves by countenancing another's truth, unpalatable though it might seem."

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2011, 09:45:46 AM »
CTN wrote what I think may be the most important paragraph in this thread.

“And herein lies the rub. I believe that being a man is about much more than just owning a pair - it's about managing it too. This means standing up to women and telling them the truth when they least want to hear it. This means challenging, ignoring and chastising their infantile, vain, jealous, neurotic, irrational and emotional behaviour as necessary - even when this bestows upon us an air of misogyny. This means ignoring those in the media who belittle us. It means campaigning politically or taking direct action to bring about changes in the legal system to eliminate gender imbalances inspired by misandry. And it means reminding smug Western women who dare to criticise us that it is still our world, it is us who earn the bulk of the money, and it is us who post-1945 are at liberty to decide from where to outsource our emotional/sexual/marital needs without the need to explain it to anyone other than ourselves.”

Men continually cave to women.  ...   So men, assume your masculinity and do as CTN suggested. Be a manly man not a girly man. Your male and female children will thank you for it. Your woman will thank you. Don’t idly stand by and wait for the next guy to do it while you hold your woman’s hand and chuckle.

I have a question for Aconcepts, Zon, Zulu, V_Man, and any other men who complain about American women's behavior toward American men and American society's current treatment of men.  Have you thought about going ex-patriot?

Spending the rest of your life challenging the infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional behavior of American women is a form of 'caving in' in itself.  In my opinion, it is the worst form of 'caving in' because it means immersing yourself in a cesspool of negative behaviors on both your and the woman's parts! 

Why not move to a country or society which treats its men with more dignity and respect, (or at least with the degree of respect you need), and spend your life trying to achieve positive things?   The term 'Vote with Your Feet!' was coined for a very good reason.

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2011, 10:30:27 AM »
I have know a few ex-pat Brits and they have no illusions about leaving Britain, I think many of us males in the EE.UU. are just beginning to wake up the the fact that things 'could' be better overseas, compared to what is here now. I really don't see cultural morays getting any better for men here. 
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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2011, 10:30:27 AM »

Offline fathertime

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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2011, 10:36:37 AM »


Spending the rest of your life challenging the infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional behavior of American women is a form of 'caving in' in itself.  In my opinion, it is the worst form of 'caving in' because it means immersing yourself in a cesspool of negative behaviors on both your and the woman's parts! 
 


Hey brazilophile (S),


i really don't think a man should take all the american women off the table....there really are a lot of nice american women also with varying personalities...i've concluded that it is the individual american/western man that makes the difference....


i think moving to SA is a good option though for many men because the options open up for younger more attractive ladies and i can see why a slightly older man would want to use that opportunity.


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09/08 saw morena goddess on Jamie's website
09/08Began writing/webcamming future wife
10/08Visited BAQ to meet future wife
12/08 Visited a second time and got engaged
01/09 Visa Paperwork done(williamIII)
02/09quickvisit BAQ
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09/09Got married
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Re: In USA, Men depicted as "needy losers"
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2011, 11:53:58 AM »
I agree that behaviour that is "infantile, neurotic, jealous, irrational, and emotional" should ideally be ignored; it may be challenged "economically" only where necessary. After all, we are not life coaches. Although such behaviour may be prevalent among the native Western populations, once the front door is closed it should no longer be an issue assuming a guy knows how to manage both himself and his relationship with his partner, overseas or not.

The issue of abandoning ship and moving overseas is of course a separate one. Some guys already choose to do i for love. But I'm pretty sure this century will also see successive waves of brain drains as the best from the West move to start new lives in various developing countries for reasons of economic prosperity and quality of life. The UK, currently plummeting back into the third world, could lead the way in this exodus; a few West European countries could well follow if the € tanks. The thought of a talent drain taking people away from the US to Latin America or Asia is a bewlidering one to me but, judging from some of the post i read here, perhaps not incredulous.

After all, when you turn up at a party only to find the best girls taken, the food & drink gone, the music rubbish, gatecrashers milling around and the guests becoming increasingly drunk, stoned or edgy... it's time to move on and find a party that's just starting :)

 

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