what are the cost

[razorback]

I'm thinking about starting this process.  I read plenty of post dealing with the good, bad, and ugly of beginning this journey.  What I don't have a clear understanding of is the total cost if all works?  I would appreciate assistance on the following:

(1) What are the cost to travel from New York to Kharkov.  I've tried Expedia etc., ranged from $710-900, but all flights full.  Also, what are the cost involved in obtaining visas etc.

(2) How easy is it for the woman to meet somehwere halfway, say in Paris.  Of course, I would bear all the cost?

(3) Start to finish- ballbark?

Thanks for any input.

razorback

[Montrealer]

If you have to count dollars and cents, then this probably isn't the right path for you.  Not because the women only care about money, but because this is a very costly experience.  You will probably need to make several trips, or hopefully at least more than one.  The visa process can get costly as well from what I heard.

If this is still something you want to do, then I would suggest saving for a few years.

I know from my experience, I have made 2 trips south, and just hotel, airfare, living money, I have easily spent over $9000.00.  Now I have a fiancee, and I suspect I will spend at least another $10 000.00 in future trips.  Then if you combine that with money for agencies, dates, gifts (when appropriate), then later on the wedding expenses, visa expenses, and other miscellaneous expenses, I will have probably spent more than $35,000.00 total.

Now bare in mind, that I live a fairly eccentric lifestyle and these costs could probably get cut in half if you really looked for the penny-saver coupons.

In case you thought this process of a MOB was looking at a catalog or internet and placing an order for model RUS243624, and if she is not available give me one of the RUS253222's then you are dead wrong.  This process entails alot more, and the very high chance that you may go to the other country and leave empty handed with wife prospects, many times.

An old expression says "If you need to ask the price, then you can't afford it".

[razorback]

Thanks for your candid response.  Actually, it's not that I'm a penny pincher.  I've made trips to Colombia which I've enjoyed very much.  I'm just the type of person that likes going in with my eyes wide open.  

As for the dating process.  I know that it is not a pick a model process.  Actually, my trip to Colombia resulted in dates and correspondence with a very attractive women.  It ended when she felt like it wasn't going fast enough for her.  If all I was interested in was physical appearance, I would have been married with babies on the way because she was beautiful.

What I was trying to balance was the cost versus the obvious obstacles like meeting a sincere woman, long and tiresome travel, and what happens if I do meet the right woman but other obstacles are so great that completing the process is almost impossible.

Your post was very helpful in giving me an honest assessment so that I go in with eyes wide open should I choose to venture that direction.  Thanks again.

razorback

[WillMc]

I can answer question #2.  It is very easy to meet in a "neutral" country.
I found that meeting there was more relaxing than going to the ladies homeland for the first meeting.  It was no more expensive than going on a foreign vacation with my former spouse ever was but much more enjoyable.  

I met ladies in Cyprus, Ireland, Spain, and England.  All were terrific.  Cyprus was very easy for my girl friend to visit.  The other locations required a visa with England being the most difficult, a required interview, but we were successful every time.  One tip, make sure your girl friend has hotel reservations in her name.

I understand that it is reasonably easy for E. Europeans to get a visa to visit the Dominican Republic.

[Patrick]

Everyone does it differently, so costs can vary widely.  One thing for certain- It's expensive.  Especially when you're looking for a woman from the FSU because of the travel costs.

I put a range of $4,000 to $$$ depending on how many times you go over, how many times you have to start over with a new woman, etc.

Don't expect the first interesting (and interested) woman to be "the one."

[razorback]

Patrick:

Thank you for taking the time to respond.  I'll keep your advice in mind

[exlabman]

I started the quest in Dec of 02 and and we will celebrate our second anniversary in March. I can say with no reservations that you will find no better website than www.firstdream.com and no better advisor than Jack Bragg. He will not let you go astray. Now, having said that I must tell you that if you are thinking marriage in 3 or 4 years you are not ready to start this journey. No decent women will wait for a "long distance lover" for 3 or 4 years. You just want "dates" and that is ok if you want to spend a lot of money on trips and good times ,but do not waste a serious woman's time by pretending to look for a wife. I met my wife in April of 03 with Jack's help, got her visa in Dec 03 and brought her back and we were married in Mar 04 and it gets better every day (thanks again Jack) so when you are ready it does not have to cost a lot and does not take "many trips". Good luck  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  

Larry
Atlanta

[Patrick]

I second the Firstdream.com recommendation.  There seems to be a lot of sharks infesting the Rusian agency scene.  The only negative feedback I've heard regarding Jack, and I have lots of history with him, is from men who disagreed with his advice on how to conduct the search.  He has some strong opinions on how to do things and likes to have you do it his way, but from my POV, his way is a good one.  He doesn't want you wasting too much time on any one woman on a first trip and insists that you meet ALL the women you planned to.

[razorback]

Thanks for the information on first dream.  I looked at the information at it all looks reputable.  

Believe me, I'm not looking at 3-4 years.  Just looking for the right woman.

[Beattledog]

This process will take a lot of time and thousands of dollars.

Beattledog

[exlabman]

For good ticket prices go to www.airlineconsolidator.com. Remember the closer to summer the higher the fares. Jack will get you great places to live.

I will also say that you must decide the traits that would make a women the "right women" for YOU !!!! Then when you find a lady with those traits get serious with her. Do not go over there expecting to "fall in love" or you will go broke looking. LOVE comes after you are married and truly share your life together. You can always find another and another and another and overlook an orchid while looking for a rose as the song said so well. Find a "good hearted woman" and fall in love with her while sharing the future together. I hope I have made sense to you.

Larry
Atlanta

[Travis]

A lot if it doestn't work. Legal fee's can eat you alive....been there done that! And that's if your in a community property state...if your not, good luck. Mine has cost me right at $200,000 so far...and that was just to get rid of her. Think about what your getting into.

[Bob_S]

There are a lot of incidental costs you may not realize going into this.  Consider just a few of these cost factors:
Initial contact (address purchase, agencies, hiring someone to place a personal ad, etc.).
Sustained contact with translators, internet cafe for her, international phone calls, sending flowers to ones you want to meet in person.
Going to meet prospective dyevushka
- Airline
- hotel or rented apartment
- taxis
- eating out at nice restaurants every night (can't appear cheap)
- more gifts
If nothing pans out, repeat from initial contact.
So, let's say you meet someone you like:
repeat visit (meet her parents) with more travel costs
maybe a vacation in a neutral country

Get engaged?  Engagement ring (ka-ching).
Can't figure out the visa paperwork?  Immigration lawyer.
Now you have her travel costs (you can't be sure of the time frame, so expect peak-season prices).
Got her here?  Great!  She needs driving lessons and a car.
She wants to improve her English?  Don't expect her to settle for adult ed with all the illegal aliens.  She'll need a good school with an intensive program.
Wedding.  You're paying for everything, and she's not going to settle for a quickie courthouse trip (unless she's just in it for the green card).
Did she bring just 2 suitcases of clothes?  She's a woman, and an FSU woman to boot, so she'll want to expand her wardrobe, and she LOVES shopping.
Of course she'll need a cell phone and won't understand anything about minute limits.  Expect to pay overages often.  Don't be surprised if she uses it to call home (cell phone international rates? 5$/minute without a calling card).
Total from first contact till your first aniversary can add up to an entire year's salary.  And you'll be expected to shell out the money without complaint.  One thing about Russian culture you need to know is that both money and vodka are poured out to your loved ones liberally.  Careful sensible budgeting is for tightwad bastards and Jews, both of whom RW hate.  If 5 figures is an acceptable sacrifice to find your soulmate, you may have what it takes to become one of the few lucky happy success stories.

[razorback]

So, what I'm getting is this:  there have been are are wonderful success stories- BUT for every success I'm finding disappointments.  I'f I'm sucessful, it could run me in the thousands.  If disaster strikes in the hundreds of thousands.  

Bob-S, you've also answered one of my lingering questions which has to do with Russian attitudes towards the process and cultural diferences which might be a factor- such as the phone calls.  "Expected to shell out the money without complaint."  I've not done bad for myself financially but I would hate for that to change because of my decision to marry a FSU woman.  Also, there are enough obstacles to overcome for a successful and rewarding marriage- the fewer stressors the better.

I was wondering, is this attitude toward money etc. the rule or just something to watch out for in the "dating" process?  Thanks for any input.

[Montrealer]

So, what I'm getting is this: there have been are are wonderful success stories- BUT for every success I'm finding disappointments.

Don't let the ratio of success stories and disappointments on this forum get you down.  Many success stories are not posted on furums, because people that are successful generally are busy with their wife and don't have time to post.

I think Bob gave you a worst case scenario as what to expect.  The post-marital costs and needs don't have to be as high or costly.  My rule of thumb is, if I have it, then she deserves to have it.  If she needs it, then I get something I need.  Make it 50-50.  If you can handle doing that, then it's just the matter of finding a good girl who will not try to take advantage of you.

I would consider a pre-nup or some kind of agreement if allowed in your state.  It's just a good idea to cover your ASSets in these types of relationships.

[Bob_S]

I think Bob gave you a worst case scenario as what to expect.  The post-marital costs and needs don't have to be as high or costly. .

That's true, mmm, mostly.  My example is a second worst case senario assuming everything goes right.  True worst case is you do all this and it all still goes south.  Then expect as bloody a divorce battle as you would expect from any AW (lots of false charges filed against you to build a case where she can self-petition her change of visa status).

I would consider a pre-nup or some kind of agreement if allowed in your state.  It's just a good idea to cover your ASSets in these types of relationships.

A prenup would be worthless.  You can check with a real attorney, but consider: You get a divorce and pull out the signed prenup.  She can easily whine to the judge how, oh, her pangliski is so bad she could not understand any of the legal jargon, and oh, you threatened her with violence and said you would send her back to her poor peasant village in shame if she did not sign.  Sob sob sob.  Who will the judge believe?  A mean evil man or this poor but beautiful creature crying at his feet?

I was wondering, is this attitude toward money etc. the rule or just something to watch out for

Part of the beauty of the Russian Soul is incredible generosity to those closest to you.  That means you'd be willing to skip work to go get drunk with your buddy whose wife just left him because she found out about his other girlfriends.  So of course you are expected to be so generous with your soul mate as well.  Couple that with the fact that they just don't understand real money as we do (in terms of asset net worth, credit rating, retirement planning, and so on), and it can make for a trouble spot in a relationship with a woman from a developing nation who doesn't see the value in contributing to a 401k.  (Pension funds in her country have been devalued and plundered, so she may not trust our system of doing things.)
As always, YMMV.  So if you find someone you want to get to know, observe if she is a careful shopper or spendthrift.

[John K]

There are numerous ways you can reduce costs, if you take the time to think about it and learn from the experiences of old timers here.  Here are a few suggestions:

1) Disable international calling on your phone and cell phone and use a phone card service such as Pingo (www.pingo.com) to place all calls.  We were using phone cards and having a hard time getting connected.  After trying to use the phone card unsuccessfully, she accidently direct dialed to Ukraine.  A phone conversation, less than 15 minutes ran over $100!  Find a calling card service that is reputable and reliable, and don't sweat the per minute rate as much.

2) Start dragging your wife into your family budgeting and bill paying early in your relationship.  Once she starts seeing how much things cost, compared to how much you make, it will help her to curtail her spending habits.  Also, take the time to explain to her about credit, credit ratings, buying power, interest rates (fixed vs variable), etc.  Then work on future goals and identify how you will get there financially.  The more you drag her into the financial side of your relationship, the more likely she will become fiscally responsible.

3) If you have substantial assets and feel the need to protect them, then hire the services of some good lawyers and financial planners.  They can help you lock your funds and property into nonprofit corporations, irrevocable trusts, whole (not term) life insurance, etc. that will help protect your assets, in case the relationship turns out to be a scam.  Prenuptual agreements need to be translated into her native language and should be generous, to reduce your soon-to-be exspouse claims that you "took advantage of her".  Talking with a good divorce lawyer before you ever pop the question is a surprisingly smart move.  Finally, take a look around your house.  Anything you can't live without?  Anything you can't afford to lose?  You'd better protect it before she ever comes over.

4) Remember, you aren't just marrying a girl.  You are marrying her whole family.  If Mom or Grandma have health problems, you will be expected to help out financially.  If Mom-in-Law needs a new refrigerator or water heater, don't be surprised if your wife pressures you to help out financially.  Take your time to evaluate not just your girl, but her family as well.  Are they healthy?  Do they live well?  Do they want to?  What are their expectations of you, if you marry your girl?  It's best to know it up front.

5) Russians tend, more than others, to want to "keep up with the Joneses."  Especially if the Joneses are their Russian peers living locally with them.  Be aware of that, and try to keep her urges in check with reality.  Otherwise, you could end up shelling out a lot of cash to upgrade your lifestyle.

Each woman is going to be different from the others.  Take the good advice you find on this forum, and use what fits with your current situation.  Try to remember the rest for when your situation changes.  In the end, it's always a gamble, but you can skew the odds more to your favor if you take the time to prepare beforehand.

Best of luck!

[razorback]

I want each of you to know how much I appreciate all the posts to my inquiry- both the good and the bad.  It is comforting to know that there is help and support out there should I decide to take this step.