Planet-Love.com
Immigration and Visas => Immigration and Visas => Topic started by: Ray on December 05, 2013, 05:30:45 PM
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(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/aybooba/2a772a45.jpg)
What’s broken is the fools like Obama who refuse to enforce the laws we have on the books.
Now we hear that Obama’s uncle Omar is going to get to stay here without even waiting for Obama’s promised amnesty plan.
After defying 3 deportation orders and a felony arrest, what is Uncle Omar’s punishment? He gets a green card!
Remember that the next time your wife or fiancée is denied a visa, or when some fool tells you that our immigration system is "broken", so therefore we need to grant amnesty and citizenship to all of the 25 million illegal aliens who defied our laws to get here.
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/aybooba/239b64ed.jpg)
Ray
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To add some balance to this thread, there are many web sites that falsely attack the Obama administration on their deportation record, but, the truth is about 400,000 deportations happen each year, more or less steady for the past two administrations, but, in recent years, according to the National Immigations Law Center, "under the Obama administration, we're seeing a record number of people being detained and deported."
Another quote, from David Martin, Department of Homeland Security: Congress has funded enforcement at those levels. The administration is carrying out the laws, honoring the president's obligation under the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.And so this is both a congressional and an executive policy. But I want to emphasize that the Obama administration has made an effort to redirect deportations and enforcement actions so that they focus on a better set of priorities, to prioritize people with criminal involvement or recent border crossers or people with serious immigration violations.
And the best example of that, I think, is the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, the policy for the so-called DREAMers, for people who came here as young children and are not accountable for their illegal presence in the country. That was a policy announced about 18 months ago that provides a form of status for those people.
So all of that is part of the process. The president doesn't have the authority to simply wave off enforcement of the laws. That's not the kind of system we have. So there's been an effort to reprioritize it. End Quote
Another note, the President's uncle has been in the US for 30 years since his Student Visa expired. He has been arrested one time, for DUI.
There are something in the order of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, not 25 million.
It's no skin off my teeth when people hate Obama. I felt pretty much the same way about GWB, so I can't go knocking people who speak their mind about Obama. But, it's always fun to have both sides of the story, it keeps people from making radical statements…sometimes. Just saying.
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Both these last 2-3 presidents have been very bad in allowing illegal immigrants to cross, work, and stay here....My understanding is that Obozo isn't even following the law regarding deportations....I don't care as much anymore about the law abiding illegals that are already here...I'd like to see the flow cut off completely for new ones though...I KNOW it COULD be done if our govt. representatives put the controls in place but It doesn't seem like they are ever going to...so we can continue to expect to have hoards more...and all the magnets/freebies we give them (their children) is a joke.
Andy...it is hard to follow your post as it seems to have been culled from from a few different places and I'd like to read it in context...and read what the counterpoints are to the numbers...
Fathertime!
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I wonder how a lot of big businesses, particularly agricultural interests, REALLY feel about all the illegal aliens here. I mentioned before that we had a McDonald's here closed down for a while because some of the illegals had very slickly done paperwork--they were even having social security deducted.
There's a line somewhere between illegals making big money here compared to what the same work back home would pay and businesses here who pay workers they know are illegal, wages no American should rightfully have to accept.
There are a number of multimillionaires in our town who built one subdivision after another, houses priced from mid 100K to up in the millions, on the backs of poorly paid illegals. Most of the homes in my own neighborhood are getting new roofs. I've yet to hear a guy working a nail gun speak a word of English and they won't look you in the eye.
Easier to say than do, but if I could go around demanding workers at various farms, chicken and hog processors show legal paperwork allowing them to work in the USA, I think there would be a whole lot less fried chicken, bacon and eggs in the morning in a lot of places.
Hiring illegal aliens and polluting the environment are both basically greed driven acts. Cheaper to hire illegals and cheaper to dump toxic stuff anywhere than it is to dispose of it properly.
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To add some balance to this thread, there are many web sites that falsely attack the Obama administration on their deportation record, but, the truth is about 400,000 deportations happen each year, more or less steady for the past two administrations, but, in recent years, according to the National Immigations Law Center, "under the Obama administration, we're seeing a record number of people being detained and deported."
Another quote, from David Martin, Department of Homeland Security: Congress has funded enforcement at those levels. The administration is carrying out the laws, honoring the president's obligation under the Constitution to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.And so this is both a congressional and an executive policy. But I want to emphasize that the Obama administration has made an effort to redirect deportations and enforcement actions so that they focus on a better set of priorities, to prioritize people with criminal involvement or recent border crossers or people with serious immigration violations.
And the best example of that, I think, is the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy, the policy for the so-called DREAMers, for people who came here as young children and are not accountable for their illegal presence in the country. That was a policy announced about 18 months ago that provides a form of status for those people.
So all of that is part of the process. The president doesn't have the authority to simply wave off enforcement of the laws. That's not the kind of system we have. So there's been an effort to reprioritize it. End Quote
Another note, the President's uncle has been in the US for 30 years since his Student Visa expired. He has been arrested one time, for DUI.
There are something in the order of 11 million illegal immigrants in the US, not 25 million.
It's no skin off my teeth when people hate Obama. I felt pretty much the same way about GWB, so I can't go knocking people who speak their mind about Obama. But, it's always fun to have both sides of the story, it keeps people from making radical statements…sometimes. Just saying.
You are accurate in your post. When it comes to deportation under the Obama administration he is a president for the record books. This thread is the equivalent to saying Wilt Chamberlain, MJ, or Karl Malone couldn't score when in fact they are the record setters of all-time. Those pesky things like facts always get in the way.
The states with the harshest anti-immigration laws had fruit rotting in the fields (see Georgia/Alabama) because all those people so against this had absolutely no interest in actually doing the work they either did illegally or where brought here legally seasonally to do.
Granted I would have preferred the United States had enforced our laws by actually protecting the border, but that ship has sailed. Now there are millions of people taking advantage of this country without paying a fine for being here illegally and all the money they owe. The fine, back taxes, and future taxes would be nice to collect and it'd go a long way towards balancing a budget.
Once you break grandma's vase wishing you never broke it doesn't do much. You have to figure out the best way to fix it. You can't un-break the vase and you can't go back in time and get serious about border protection.
Rolihlahla Mandela was a rather pragmatic leader that got a lot accomplished in his time because of his pragmatism, common sense, and his ability to work with even the people that imprisoned him to get important things done. He was politically rather extreme in his views and was still able to sit across from people that hated not only his political views but his race to get big things done. And that divide was real and a lot larger than the our so called divided government here.
Our biggest fight here is over the democratic party abandoning Hillary care for the old Bob Dole health care plan and passing it. Compared to some of the divides bridged in other countries I think our government ought to get together and get this immigration issue handled in the most reasonable manner possible. And that means ignoring the ideologues and so called purists that can't sit down and have an adult conversation regarding a comprehensive solution.
Nobody should break the laws and get a free pass. We have a national debt to pay down and fruit that needs picked. So short of Ray and FT heading to the fields and paying more taxes hopefully rational people from both sides can hammer out a deal in the near future. Between Obama, McCain, Marco Rubio, and the RNC which proclaimed they need to reach out to Latinos after getting creamed by Obama in the last presidential election... I'm sure they can figure something out.
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The OP's title for the thread is Broken Immigration System?
IMHO, the answer to that question is a resounding YES.
It's not just the Mexican guys picking fruit and running nail guns and avoiding eye contact (they probably avoid eye contact because they have been discriminated against and hammered on so much they have become bone weary of yet another high brow gringo poking fun at them or abusing them because they work 10 hours a day 7 days a week in the hot sun, pouring rain or freezing snow to provide a life for themselves and their immediate family and their extended family back in Mexico or wherever……..China, Korea, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Latin America……etc).
And don't get me started on the jobs they are taking away from American, hah. I was an organic farmer for 20 years and finally went out of business because I couldn't find workers. Out of desperation I went to Jamaica to take part in a worker exchange program so we could get somebody to pick our fruit and process our free range broilers. Americans won't do that work, even if you double the minimum wage. I tried it and I know.
Then for 10 years I was a house builder struggling to put up 2 to 4 houses a year doing most of the work myself, often at night and on weekends because Americans won't do that work either, even for the princely sum of $25 hour which I was more than willing to pay for honest, talented labor. I would have gladly and instantly grabbed a Mexican sheet rocker or a Uruguayan carpenter or a Korean housepainter if they were available, with or without a green card. I never thought of myself as being greedy. I suppose I was, but for the most part I always just thought of myself as being just like any other guy trying to make a living.
The immigration problem is real and needs intelligent solutions, not more bashing and bad mouthing of that "no good, lazy, misbegotten, socialist, muslim, anti-christ" we've got for a president. Obama ain't perfect, but he's stopped more wars necessarily than George W started unnecessarily, so he's okay in my book.
As for the Affordable Care Act, known derisively as Obamacare, it is the evolution of a proposed law written by the Republican think tank (Heritage Foundation) some 24 years ago. It was a primary element in Newt Gingrich's Republican Contract With America in 1993. It was the foundation of the Mitt Romney Massachusetts affordable care act.
Obamacare has a long history of support from the Republicans, right up to the very day Obama got elected the first time, then the Republican mantra suddenly became "kill the socialist evil that is obamacare". It was voted into law by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and accepted by the People. Still, Republicans have wasted 3 years and BILLIONS of dollars in 40 attempts to repeal the ACA along with one failed attempt to blackmail by shutting down the government.
Here's a link that shows what the ACA is really all about, not what it's detractors claim it is all about. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/29/obamacare-in-plain-english-what-it-means-for-you/
Quite frankly, based on the abysmal failure of Congress to get behind the ACA and make it as useful as it can be, I don't think it is possible for a two party Congress to solve the Immigration problem either. Especially when one of those parties is so absurdly dedicating itself to trying to destroying a president just because they don't like him.
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The immigration problem is real and needs intelligent solutions, not more bashing and bad mouthing of that "no good, lazy, misbegotten, socialist, muslim, anti-christ" we've got for a president. Obama ain't perfect, but he's stopped more wars necessarily than George W started unnecessarily, so he's okay in my book.
As for the Affordable Care Act, known derisively as Obamacare, it is the evolution of a proposed law written by the Republican think tank (Heritage Foundation) some 24 years ago. It was a primary element in Newt Gingrich's Republican Contract With America in 1993. It was the foundation of the Mitt Romney Massachusetts affordable care act.
Obamacare has a long history of support from the Republicans, right up to the very day Obama got elected the first time, then the Republican mantra suddenly became "kill the socialist evil that is obamacare". It was voted into law by both houses of Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and accepted by the People. Still, Republicans have wasted 3 years and BILLIONS of dollars in 40 attempts to repeal the ACA along with one failed attempt to blackmail by shutting down the government.
LOL all that above is completely true. It is depressing how much time is wasted on this instead of creating jobs or solving the immigration problem you noted by making them pay us the tax dollars they owe us. But you are right. The socialist president is just passing a bunch of old republican ideas. At least while Newt was impeaching Clinton while asking his own cancer ridden wife for permission to cheat and have three somes there wasn't this much gridlock between the parties where nothing could be done because the other side is the devil straight from the pit of hell.
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Loud, not truth, biased, and totally offtopic bcc
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Just as expected, here comes Obama’s lap dogs to make more phony excuses for all of his many failures.
And once again, bcc shows his ignorance.
While the lap dogs predictably follow the rabid leftist mantra of blaming everything on the Republicans, anyone with a more than feeble mind knows better.
Don’t listen to this stupid whining about the lack of farm workers/fruit pickers. The existing immigration law already has a visa program for agricultural workers, but the lap dogs would have you believe otherwise. So when the leftists complain about the lack of legal farm workers, don’t believe a word they tell you. They are simply once again making phony excuses for a phony, lying president. If the farmers followed the law and the government enforced the law, bcc’s stinking fruit would get picked despite his rabid leftist whining.
Why is one poster whining about hating Obama?? This isn’t about hate and I wouldn’t waste my time or energy hating him or anyone else. This is about the truth and exposing another phony, leftist, lying politician for the fake that he is. Obama can’t open his mouth anymore without lying to the Americam public. Only rabid leftist ideologues and morons would believe anything Obozo says.
Case in point…When Obama’s uncle Omar was arrested for drunk driving, the White house (Obama) publicly proclaimed that Obama didn’t know him or had he ever met him. BULL SHYT! Once Uncle Omar blew Obozo’a cover, the White house lied about it’s lies by trying to cover up their obvious prevarication.
So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess. But now the lap dogs proclaim that it is a Republican law? More lies from the leftist ideologues. Just a couple of months ago, the Democrats proudly called the phony health care act "Obamacare", but now that it has become public knowledge that the whole law was based on lies and fraud, the lap dogs say it is "known derisively as Obamacare". Derisive? LOL!
These leftist whackos crack me up… ;D
Ray
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Loud, not truth, biased, and totally offtopic bcc
Not sure why the attack on bcc……this whole thread is loud, biased, opinionated and off topic, although actually bcc was on topic….immigration
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So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
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And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess.
. . . . . . . .
These leftist whackos crack me up… ;D
Ray
uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still won by a landslide……go figure.
Yes, Ray is correct that not one single Republican voted for the Affordable Care Act, yet just one year before Obama became president the ACA was part of their much touted, over-sold, under-achieving Contract With America. They dropped ACA like a hot potato when it became clear that a Democrat president would get the credit, hahahahahhaha….
Now I predict the same thing will happen with immigration…..Republicans like Rubio and McCain will write the new immigration law, the Tea Party will throw another hissy fit further demoralizing the GOP and the Democrats will sweep in and pass the legislation and get all the credit AND get all the new citizens, almost all of whom will vote Democrats for Hillary in 2016.
Yes, life is good. It looks like the Democrats will be able to save this country after all. ;D
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Not sure why the attack on bcc……this whole thread is loud, biased, opinionated and off topic, although actually bcc was on topic….immigration
what does newt gingrich and his lovers have to do with illegal immigration? He went completely off of topic and obnoxious.
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uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still won by a landslide……go figure.
Yes, Ray is correct that not one single Republican voted for the Affordable Care Act, yet just one year before Obama became president the ACA was part of their much touted, over-sold, under-achieving Contract With America. They dropped ACA like a hot potato when it became clear that a Democrat president would get the credit, hahahahahhaha….
Now I predict the same thing will happen with immigration…..Republicans like Rubio and McCain will write the new immigration law, the Tea Party will throw another hissy fit further demoralizing the GOP and the Democrats will sweep in and pass the legislation and get all the credit AND get all the new citizens, almost all of whom will vote Democrats for Hillary in 2016.
Yes, life is good. It looks like the Democrats will be able to save this country after all. ;D
Thank you for confirming the obvious intent behind all this phony "path to citizenship" nonsense. The Dems are pushing this crap solely to get more votes, but Obozo and his Democrat buddies will NEVER admit it because they are nothing but phonies and frauds.
If the government tells you that there are 11 million illegal aliens here, you can bet that the actual number is at least double that. Make them all citizens, let them bring their relatives in on immigrant visas, figure that a minimum of 2/3 will vote Democratric, and you have guaranteed unoposed Democratic rule for the forseeable future, just like you have in California today. The Democrats have flushed California down the toilet...
Ray
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Nobody should break the laws and get a free pass. We have a national debt to pay down and fruit that needs picked. So short of Ray and FT heading to the fields and paying more taxes hopefully rational people from both sides can hammer out a deal in the near future. B
How about you go pick your own fruit...I picked around 200 guava earlier in the week from my little orchid...should be ready for another picking in a couple weeks... but i know you are a little 'too good' for that type of work.
uh, actually there's only 11 million illegals here now. But, for some inexplicable reason quite a few of them voted Republican. Yet Obama still
That number of 11million is hard for me to believe...I' ve heard that number for about 10 years now...nobody I trust has counted them so it is up for dispute. You are accurate in your post. When it comes to deportation under the Obama administration he is a president for the record books. This thread is the equivalent to saying Wilt Chamberlain, MJ, or Karl Malone couldn't score when in fact they are the record setters of all-time. Those pesky things like facts always get in the way.
That is also up for debate according to what I've read...the numbers of deportations are high now...especially at the border....but those deportations WERE NOT COUNTED in the past stats...so of course that changes things....here is the link which states 400,000 of the deportations are of this type. So your stupid basketball analogy doesn't hold water.
http://nbclatino.com/2013/10/16/conflicting-views-on-approaching-2-million-deportations/ (http://nbclatino.com/2013/10/16/conflicting-views-on-approaching-2-million-deportations/)
I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary. If citizens such as bcc demand that others do their dirty work, then at least the rest of us don't have to suffer the financial and educational consequences in such a disproportional manner. Since people like bcc are safely tucked away in middle america, it is much easier to say how harsh it is for anybody to complain about the number of illegals. If he were to be a victim of crime like Bozo Ray, or had his children denied the services they would normally get because of the bloated school budget due to overcrowding from children of illegals, then I believe the tune he sings would be different. Meanwhile he is far removed in his ivory tower and his dictations are going to fall on deaf ears to those living in the midst of the ruckus.
Fathertime!
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I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary.
We already have numerous temporary worker programs that have been in place for many years that cover everything from skilled engineers to fruit pickers. The problem with the current programs is mainly a lack of enforcement.
For example, a farmer can get an H-2A visa for temporary farm laborers but he must first attempt to hire US citizens or legal residents. If none are available, he can get the visa for the workers he needs, say from Mexico, but he must pay for transportation, free housing, and provide meals or cooking facilities. He must pay prevailing wages and compensation.
But since the government doesn’t enforce the prohibition on hiring illegals, most farmers can get away with hiring illegals who are living in a nearby canyon and give them substandard wages and working conditions.
If farmers actually faced jail time and large fines like the law calls for, perhaps then they would do it legally. And when those temp workers visas expire, many simply stay here, knowing that Obama won’t deport them.
The key to any amnesty plan is strict enforcement and a willingness to deport a whole lot of people. When the Dems propose a program that gives amnesty to those who are employed and who have been here for a long time, they actually have no intention of deporting those who have no means of support, have criminal records, or haven’t been here long enough. They will surely make allowance eventually for EVERYONE to stay and eventually vote for Democrats.
Programs like those for temporary farm laborers can be improved and made less burdensome for the employers without some stupid "comprehensive" immigration reform that makes all illegals voting citizens.
You don’t have to be a citizen or permanent resident to pick bcc’s fruit. You just need to enforce the current laws. As for the illegals who have been here for many years, have a steady job and a clean record, they could be given legal status to stay here permanently without making them citizens or permanent residents, but Obama has already stated flatly that he will veto any immigration amnesty program that doesn’t include a "path to citizenship". Until the Dems give up the citizenship option, their proposed amnesty program is going nowhere.
Ray
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The Washington Times August 23, 2012 by Stephan Dinan
Deportation Statistics Said To Be Inflated (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/23/deportation-statistics-said-to-be-inflated/) [7]
The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is charging that the Obama administration has "falsified" deportation records to artificially boost numbers — a move critics of the Homeland Security Department have long suspected.
Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texan who runs the committee, said the Obama administration has for the past several years been mixing some Border Patrol apprehensions with the deportation statistics from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency chiefly responsible for interior enforcement and for deporting aliens.
His investigation found that when the Border Patrol numbers are subtracted, deportations actually have gone down every year since Mr. Obama first took office in 2009, dropping from about 395,000 that year to about 330,000 in 2011.
And 2012 is shaping up to have even fewer deportations once the Border Patrol figures are subtracted, the committee said.
"It is dishonest to count illegal immigrants apprehended by the Border Patrol along the border as ICE removals," Mr. Smith said. "These ‘removals’ from the Border Patrol program do not subject the illegal immigrant to any penalties or bars for returning to the U.S. This means a single illegal immigrant can show up at the border and be removed numerous times in a single year — and counted each time as a removal."
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Does having 11 million illegals here make it better than having 25 million? Does Omar being arrested once somehow make it better than 2 or 3 times? No, it doesn't. Omar and the other millions here illegally are criminals plain and simple.
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The Washington Times August 23, 2012 by Stephan Dinan
Deportation Statistics Said To Be Inflated (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/aug/23/deportation-statistics-said-to-be-inflated/) [7]
The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is charging that the Obama administration has "falsified" deportation records to artificially boost numbers — a move critics of the Homeland Security Department have long suspected.
Rep. Lamar Smith, the Texan who runs the committee, said the Obama administration has for the past several years been mixing some Border Patrol apprehensions with the deportation statistics from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency chiefly responsible for interior enforcement and for deporting aliens.
His investigation found that when the Border Patrol numbers are subtracted, deportations actually have gone down every year since Mr. Obama first took office in 2009, dropping from about 395,000 that year to about 330,000 in 2011.
And 2012 is shaping up to have even fewer deportations once the Border Patrol figures are subtracted, the committee said.
"It is dishonest to count illegal immigrants apprehended by the Border Patrol along the border as ICE removals," Mr. Smith said. "These ‘removals’ from the Border Patrol program do not subject the illegal immigrant to any penalties or bars for returning to the U.S. This means a single illegal immigrant can show up at the border and be removed numerous times in a single year — and counted each time as a removal."
setting aside the issue of illegal immigration for just a moment...what I find most revolting is the dishonesty we the american people are constantly fed....I mean some members here are saying how this administration is being ultra tuff on illegal immigrants as if it is actually the truth...i believe Andylee is not intentionally repeating this because he thinks it is inaccurate, he, like some here haven't chosen to admit there are two sides to this issue and to detect all the bs the president and his administration are feeding us...I think bcc probably looked at the actual numbers (minus the spin) and is just brownosing andylee.
I'd rather the people know what the truth is and make whatever decision they are going to make based on that truth...not some trumped up numbers. Now back to Illegal immigration...My feeling is we (as in the big business here) along with our govt which turned a blind eye, have encouraged lots of illegal immigrants to come here...we probably are going to have to let most of them stay now, if they haven't done anything too bad...and frankly I doubt we can even extract much money outta them, but we should try.... we can hammer the piss outta business if they continue to hire illegals, we need people paying into OUR programs like SS, not sending remittances back to Mexico or Honduras instead...
Where and why is this not reasonable? I still like the temporary worker idea, because we can pay the workers less, which will keep the prices down....I don't think it is inhumane to pay less than our minimum wage, if these workers are taking a bus back to their home countries, where the wage is probably well above what they would receive there, if they could find a job at all.
Fathertime!
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what does newt gingrich and his lovers have to do with illegal immigration? He went completely off of topic and obnoxious.
Probably because I made a reference to Newt Gingirch and included his name in this dialog…….I don't see it as being off topic or obnoxious, compared to some of the other whoppers contained in this thread.
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Both these last 2-3 presidents have been very bad in allowing illegal immigrants to cross, work, and stay here....My understanding is that Obozo isn't even following the law regarding deportations....I don't care as much anymore about the law abiding illegals that are already here...I'd like to see the flow cut off completely for new ones though...I KNOW it COULD be done if our govt. representatives put the controls in place but It doesn't seem like they are ever going to...so we can continue to expect to have hoards more...and all the magnets/freebies we give them (their children) is a joke.
Fathertime!
I'm pretty sure you have verifiable statistics to back up your statements, yes?
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Just as expected, here comes Obama’s lap dogs to make more phony excuses for all of his many failures.
If you really believe this is true then surely you have some facts to back up the statement that Obama has had many failures. I'm ready to be educated. Tell me about them. Thanks
And once again, bcc shows his ignorance.
While the lap dogs predictably follow the rabid leftist mantra of blaming everything on the Republicans, anyone with a more than feeble mind knows better.
Don’t listen to this stupid whining about the lack of farm workers/fruit pickers. The existing immigration law already has a visa program for agricultural workers, but the lap dogs would have you believe otherwise. So when the leftists complain about the lack of legal farm workers, don’t believe a word they tell you. They are simply once again making phony excuses for a phony, lying president. If the farmers followed the law and the government enforced the law, bcc’s stinking fruit would get picked despite his rabid leftist whining.
Some verifiable references here would be hunky dory. It would help us all understand WHY you people hate President Obama so much.
Why is one poster whining about hating Obama?? This isn’t about hate and I wouldn’t waste my time or energy hating him or anyone else. This is about the truth and exposing another phony, leftist, lying politician for the fake that he is. Obama can’t open his mouth anymore without lying to the Americam public. Only rabid leftist ideologues and morons would believe anything Obozo says.
This is worthless, pointless, libelous, senseless and just plain stupid and hysterical rhetoric. Let's see your references……assuming you've got any. For starters, tell us when exactly that President Obama lied to you.
Case in point…When Obama’s uncle Omar was arrested for drunk driving, the White house (Obama) publicly proclaimed that Obama didn’t know him or had he ever met him. BULL SHYT! Once Uncle Omar blew Obozo’a cover, the White house lied about it’s lies by trying to cover up their obvious prevarication.
Obama was never asked until days into the development of this story. When he was asked he readily gave out information about having stayed with his Uncle for 3 weeks until his apartment was ready…..etc. Reading or watching anything other than Rush Limbaugh and FOX News would be a good idea for some people. IMHO to tell a lie this big requires someone at least as talented as Sarah Palen or Michelle Bachmann or Ted Cruz. No ordinary democrat could possibly have the balls to blatantly lie and say he never met his uncle when in fact he knew him fairly well for at least a few years.
So once again, all this phony crap about our "broken" immigration system is nothing more that another big lie by the leftists to attempt to get another 25 million Democratic voters. Don’t fall for their big lies!
Sigh….this is getting old, I'm not sure I even want to continue trying to smooth out your dialog.
And Obamacare is 100% a Democrat law. Any fool knows that not one single Republican voted for this Democrat mess. But now the lap dogs proclaim that it is a Republican law? More lies from the leftist ideologues. Just a couple of months ago, the Democrats proudly called the phony health care act "Obamacare", but now that it has become public knowledge that the whole law was based on lies and fraud, the lap dogs say it is "known derisively as Obamacare". Derisive? LOL!
These leftist whackos crack me up… ;D
Ray
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Does having 11 million illegals here make it better than having 25 million? Does Omar being arrested once somehow make it better than 2 or 3 times? No, it doesn't. Omar and the other millions here illegally are criminals plain and simple.
Yes, the difference between 11 million and 25 million is approximately 14 million, more than double what we really have. If it were true, which it isn't then with 25 million new Democrats we would have control of the white house, senate and house of representatives from now till doomsday, assuming 15% of those 25 million actually vote and of the ones that vote 95% of them vote responsibly, for Democrats.
Yes, there is at HUGE difference between 1 felony and 2 or 3. The OP stated that the uncle was a Felon. Quite frankly, a person who kept his nose clean for 50 years and got caught once for DUI is a LOT different from a person who has 2 or 3 felony convictions. DUI in the US is incredibly common and not something most of us think of as "felon". When we see the word felon in the OP we are led to believe the uncle is a serial rapist or a murderer or child molester.
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I think among ideas for a reasonable solution would be to set up a strict temporary worker program, if it is deemed necessary.
Fathertime!
This argument is pretty thin, given we've had temporary agriculture worker programs in one form or another since at least 1976 which is the year I bought my first farm. Maybe you could spend a few minutes in google and bone up on the subject.
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setting aside the issue of illegal immigration for just a moment...what I find most revolting is the dishonesty we the american people are constantly fed....I mean some members here are saying how this administration is being ultra tuff on illegal immigrants as if it is actually the truth…i believe Andylee is not intentionally repeating this because he thinks it is inaccurate, he, like some here haven't chosen to admit there are two sides to this issue and to detect all the bs the president and his administration are feeding us…I think bcc probably looked at the actual numbers (minus the spin) and is just brownosing andylee.
Speak for yourself Señor, education is a two way street. I think it would be hunky dory if some people would listen to and watch a few balanced programs and lay off the Rush Limbaugh and Fox News for a while.
By the way, the immigration story has way more than just 2 sides. Again, doing some diligent searching on Google will open your eyes a bit.
I'd rather the people know what the truth is and make whatever decision they are going to make based on that truth...not some trumped up numbers. Now back to Illegal immigration...My feeling is we (as in the big business here) along with our govt which turned a blind eye, have encouraged lots of illegal immigrants to come here...we probably are going to have to let most of them stay now, if they haven't done anything too bad...and frankly I doubt we can even extract much money outta them, but we should try.... we can hammer the piss outta business if they continue to hire illegals, we need people paying into OUR programs like SS, not sending remittances back to Mexico or Honduras instead...
Where and why is this not reasonable? I still like the temporary worker idea, because we can pay the workers less, which will keep the prices down....I don't think it is inhumane to pay less than our minimum wage, if these workers are taking a bus back to their home countries, where the wage is probably well above what they would receive there, if they could find a job at all.
Fathertime!
Of course nobody knows for sure how many illegals there are in the US but the number of 11 million seems to be fairly well accepted by all sides. When I came to Colombia 4 years ago the number being bandied about was 10 million, so it's reasonable to assume that it could have grown by 10% in 4 years.
I think a really important part of this discussion should be for all of us to agree that, first, these are real people we are talking about. They have hopes and dreams and children and lovers and folks back home just like you and I do.
Another thing we can agree on is that there is indeed an immigration problem. People want to come to the US just like they have been doing since even before it was the US, way back to when English settlers came to Jamestown (illegally I might add). We have immigrants from every country in the world. My family immigrated to US from England when there were only 13 states. There is no record of whether my forefathers did it legally or not. They just started showing up on the Virginia tax records with no mention of where or when or how they arrived. I am just guessing here, but I'd say a significant number of you all have a similar family history.
Today, as for the past, some immigrants are doing it legally and others aren't. Attacking all immigrants as being evil is counter productive IMHO. We should only be attacking the ones who are using criminal means to arrive in the US and criminal means to stay here.
So, just saying THEY ALL came with evil intent is doing them, and us, a disservice.
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Probably because I made a reference to Newt Gingirch and included his name in this dialog…….I don't see it as being off topic or obnoxious, compared to some of the other whoppers contained in this thread.
Talking about newt gingritch and his lovers on a topic about immigration is off the subject. You have to be off your rocker to say differently.
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This argument is pretty thin, given we've had temporary agriculture worker programs in one form or another since at least 1976 which is the year I bought my first farm. Maybe you could spend a few minutes in google and bone up on the subject.
I don't think what i've said constitutes an 'argument'...
I brought up a STRICT worker program...Whatever has been in place has not worked properly as it stands now we have somewhere between 11-25 million illegals here...you can add in a lot more when you speak of their children that were born on our soil and hence are legal citizens.
If our 'representatives' cared enough they could put in place a program that allowed people to work and yet return to their home country's...the laws of our land are different now then they were when your family came over on a ship in the 1700's. I don't know what your position is on the subject because I've only read your criticisms of what i've said...
Now Andy, I've been respectful of your opinions thus far but you continue to bring up 'fox news' and 'rush limbaugh' and act like that anybody who disagrees is brainwashed by these sources or needs to do 'basic google searches'....FYI, I usually work during the limbaugh comedy show so I haven't listened for years...if you are going to sling mud and attempt to insult my intelligence, rather than substantially discuss the subject, then well I could go down that road too with you...but I'd rather just hear your viewpoint and agree with parts and disagree with other parts...
Fathertime!
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Both these last 2-3 presidents have been very bad in allowing illegal immigrants to cross, work, and stay here....My understanding is that Obozo isn't even following the law regarding deportations....I don't care as much anymore about the law abiding illegals that are already here...I'd like to see the flow cut off completely for new ones though...I KNOW it COULD be done if our govt. representatives put the controls in place but It doesn't seem like they are ever going to...so we can continue to expect to have hoards more...and all the magnets/freebies we give them (their children) is a joke. Fathertime!
I'm pretty sure you have verifiable statistics to back up your statements, yes?
We can watch the news and see people crossing all the time...we can see new enrollments at schools from fresh kids with no english and mom and pop are farm hands...perhaps these things are not bad from your perspective but new illegal immigrants arrive all the time, so I view that as a failure in our leadership to properly secure the border.
If you would like to go on record as saying the last 3 presidents have been GOOD regarding illegal immigration, then I can say we have a disagreement and will bring out the stats, to prove that point incorrect. My feeling is if people are going to live here they should be above board, and not just anybody should be allowed to come...it should be the citizen's decision as to how many. What do you think?
Fathertime!
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...but I'd rather just hear your viewpoint and agree with parts and disagree with other parts...
Fathertime!
Fair enough, we can agree to disagree, amicably. Thanks
The STRICT H2A worker program you desire is already in place and was described accurately earlier in the thread by Ray. I'm familiar with H2A and I politely disagree that it is not being enforced properly.
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Fair enough, we can agree to disagree, amicably. Thanks
The STRICT H2A worker program you desire is already in place and was described accurately earlier in the thread by Ray. I'm familiar with H2A and I politely disagree that it is not being enforced properly.
Good, cool, we can agree to disagree amicably...NOW...I read more about the H2A program...30,000 people are using it....but we have 11-25 million illegals....I conclude it is not working too good, because most of the people are still working illegally...
In your experience, or other farmer buddies...did this program enforce the fact that workers must go home after...if so than that is good...and it should be expanded greatly...I'm pretty sure it could be done if there were a stomach for it. I recognize that we should have legal immigration, but I don't like that we have lost control of the border for the most part.
Fathertime!
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Yes, the difference between 11 million and 25 million is approximately 14 million, more than double what we really have. If it were true, which it isn't then with 25 million new Democrats we would have control of the white house, senate and house of representatives from now till doomsday, assuming 15% of those 25 million actually vote and of the ones that vote 95% of them vote responsibly, for Democrats.
When you are talking millions of people in this instance 11 or 25 is a minute detail is not completely insignificant. It is like debating the number of chairs on the deck of the Titanic: It doesn't matter.
You are assuming illegals vote. The ones I know barely take an interest in US politics let alone vote. You are also assuming of the few that might vote will vote democrat.....Here's some new and shocking info: The ones that are interested in voting will vote for whoever they think will help their cause. This is true with most voters and they are no different. Right now there are articles that state Obama has lost the approval of many hispanic voters. Gee, I wonder why?
Yes, there is at HUGE difference between 1 felony and 2 or 3. The OP stated that the uncle was a Felon. Quite frankly, a person who kept his nose clean for 50 years and got caught once for DUI is a LOT different from a person who has 2 or 3 felony convictions. DUI in the US is incredibly common and not something most of us think of as "felon". When we see the word felon in the OP we are led to believe the uncle is a serial rapist or a murderer or child molester.
I have never even had a DUI so I guess that makes me a saint. Anyway, I doubt what is being reported about this guy is true. The liberal media will slant anything that has to do with Obama so if they report his uncle has only been arrested for a DUI then he probably has a very long rap sheet. And you certainly can't count on Obama to be honest. First he claimed he had never met his uncle then it turns out that he had.
This is all soap opera crap to me. The real problem is that we practically have an open border. It should be sealed off. I don't buy this crap of it isn't possible. The US can fly half way around the world and fight wars in two counties at the same time. The border can be secured.
The illegals that are here can be made to leave as well. This isn't an impossible task it is a matter of will just like securing the border. All the rhetoric and BS coming from both political parties is nonsense. The border should be secured to start with and then a decision should be made as to how to handle the illegals here. Worrying about the exact number when it is clearly in the millions is a waste of time and I could care less about Obama's uncle. He is here illegally which makes him a criminal.
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There are many, many sides to the immigration question, but, principally there are two camps.
In one camp some people simply refuse to read statistics because they believe all government bureaus, all government employees, all elected officials, all of the press, in fact, just about everybody everywhere, is lying to them and fudging the numbers to make it look like the deportation program is working. These people feel there is no truth, there is no justice and they are convinced that America is on a steep economic and political decline and will never recover. These people believe the only solution is a scorched earth immigration policy where any illegal is a criminal and they get deported, period. No questions asked and no answers accepted.
Whether the illegal has been here for 50 years and raised a family, attended church, built a business or held a steady job, paid taxes, spent his or her income supporting other businesses in the community. None of that matters, the illegal is a criminal and is given 24 hours to be at airport to be sent back to wherever they came from. If they don't show up at the airport as directed they are hunted down, placed in custody and sent out on the next flight.
In this camp, (for lack of a better name I'll call it the scorched earth camp), these people want the borders secured with a death ray. That includes all airports, all sea ports, all common land borders. Anyone, from anywhere, who for any reason and using any possible method tries to slip into the US will be shot on sight, no questions asked, no answers accepted. After shooting, if they don't die from their wounds, they will be deported.
In the second camp, called the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp, we have the existing US Immigration Policy and it is being enforced regardless of who wants to believe otherwise. In the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp these people believe that illegals are human beings who deserve fair and balanced treatment.
Here is an article from a reasonably neutral news source, USA Today, that gives some background and some thoughts on the US Immigration Policy that we now have, and offers some suggestions on how the laws are not adequate and how they can be made better.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/)
Here is the lead sentence in the story; A record 409,849 people were deported by the U.S. in 2012, many of them on 24-hour notice.
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There are many, many sides to the immigration question, but, principally there are two camps.
In one camp some people simply refuse to read statistics because they believe all government bureaus, all government employees, all elected officials, all of the press, in fact, just about everybody everywhere, is lying to them and fudging the numbers to make it look like the deportation program is working. These people feel there is no truth, there is no justice and they are convinced that America is on a steep economic and political decline and will never recover. These people believe the only solution is a scorched earth immigration policy where any illegal is a criminal and they get deported, period. No questions asked and no answers accepted.
Whether the illegal has been here for 50 years and raised a family, attended church, built a business or held a steady job, paid taxes, spent his or her income supporting other businesses in the community. None of that matters, the illegal is a criminal and is given 24 hours to be at airport to be sent back to wherever they came from. If they don't show up at the airport as directed they are hunted down, placed in custody and sent out on the next flight.
In this camp, (for lack of a better name I'll call it the scorched earth camp), these people want the borders secured with a death ray. That includes all airports, all sea ports, all common land borders. Anyone, from anywhere, who for any reason and using any possible method tries to slip into the US will be shot on sight, no questions asked, no answers accepted. After shooting, if they don't die from their wounds, they will be deported.
In the second camp, called the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp, we have the existing US Immigration Policy and it is being enforced regardless of who wants to believe otherwise. In the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp these people believe that illegals are human beings who deserve fair and balanced treatment.
Here is an article from a reasonably neutral news source, USA Today, that gives some background and some thoughts on the US Immigration Policy that we now have, and offers some suggestions on how the laws are not adequate and how they can be made better.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/)
Here is the lead sentence in the story; A record 409,849 people were deported by the U.S. in 2012, many of them on 24-hour notice.
well andy, since you spent the majority of your post exaggerating the evils one position, perhaps we should consider another position, which you appear to be advocating:
how about those people people that want to immediately legalize all the immigrants here and others that arrive...whether they be criminal or not...the should all be eligible for unemployment, wic, welfare, section 8 housing, free medical care and obamaphone....
I think it is best NOT to spend TOO much time distorting other people's position. I'd rather just hear what YOU think is a reasonable position on the issue.
This is all soap opera crap to me. The real problem is that we practically have an open border. It should be sealed off. I don't buy this crap of it isn't possible. The US can fly half way around the world and fight wars in two counties at the same time. The border can be secured.
The illegals that are here can be made to leave as well. This isn't an impossible task it is a matter of will just like securing the border. All the rhetoric and BS coming from both political parties is nonsense. The border should be secured to start with and then a decision should be made as to how to handle the illegals here. Worrying about the exact number when it is clearly in the millions is a waste of time and I could care less about Obama's uncle. He is here illegally which makes him a criminal.
This seems reasonable enough to me...if our representatives REALLY decided to seal the border like most of the public wants, it could be done...If we need more workers, I'd rather we import some legally and use a temporary workforce for others...What the hell kind of system is it we have now, where just about anybody can make it through, be it by foot, or by coyote....the penalties need to be severe enough to discourage most of the people from trying to cross.
Fathertime!
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/08/as-deportations-soar-mich-mom-spared/3904425/)
Here is the lead sentence in the story; A record 409,849 people were deported by the U.S. in 2012, many of them on 24-hour notice.
although the illegal immigrants just keep on coming...what fact I liked best about the article from a year ago is that the higher % of illegals deported are hardened criminals...hopefully these often violent criminals are in prison either here or there...it would be no good if criminals are simply released...because oftentimes they would wind up right back here within weeks.
Fathertime!
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...a person who kept his nose clean for 50 years and got caught once for DUI is a LOT different from a person who has 2 or 3 felony convictions. DUI in the
And you so conveniently forgot to mention that this criminal ignored THREE deportation orders. He has NO respect for our laws and deserves NONE of our respect. This criminal should have been placed on a plane back to Kenya the second time he was ordered deported.
When we see the word felon in the OP we are led to believe the uncle is a serial rapist or a murderer or child molester.
Only a complete moron would would be led to believe that stupid nonsense from what I posted.
Ray
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Attacking all immigrants as being evil is counter productive IMHO. We should only be attacking the ones who are using criminal means to arrive in the US and criminal means to stay here.
So, just saying THEY ALL came with evil intent is doing them, and us, a disservice.
Now this is a good example of the lies and pure bull shyt we constantly get from the far left.
This mantra of 'anyone who is opposed to ILLEGAL immigration therefore despises ALL immigrants and thinks they are all "evil".'
My wife is an immigrant you fool, and I have probably petitioned more immigrants that you could dream of.
But I am glad that you agree we should be attacking Obama's uncle Omar, who obviously has been using "criminal means to stay here" by ignoring THREE deportation orders!
Ray
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There are many, many sides to the immigration question, but, principally there are two camps.
In one camp some people simply refuse to read statistics because they believe all government bureaus, all government employees, all elected officials, all of the press, in fact, just about everybody everywhere, is lying to them and fudging the numbers to make it look like the deportation program is working. These people feel there is no truth, there is no justice and they are convinced that America is on a steep economic and political decline and will never recover. These people believe the only solution is a scorched earth immigration policy where any illegal is a criminal and they get deported, period. No questions asked and no answers accepted.
Whether the illegal has been here for 50 years and raised a family, attended church, built a business or held a steady job, paid taxes, spent his or her income supporting other businesses in the community. None of that matters, the illegal is a criminal and is given 24 hours to be at airport to be sent back to wherever they came from. If they don't show up at the airport as directed they are hunted down, placed in custody and sent out on the next flight.
In this camp, (for lack of a better name I'll call it the scorched earth camp), these people want the borders secured with a death ray. That includes all airports, all sea ports, all common land borders. Anyone, from anywhere, who for any reason and using any possible method tries to slip into the US will be shot on sight, no questions asked, no answers accepted. After shooting, if they don't die from their wounds, they will be deported.
In the second camp, called the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp, we have the existing US Immigration Policy and it is being enforced regardless of who wants to believe otherwise. In the Reasonable Immigration Policy Camp these people believe that illegals are human beings who deserve fair and balanced treatment.
And yet another worthless rant from a typical lying liberal. These hateful guys will tell any lie to make those who disagree with them look like murderous thugs.
So now anyone who is opposed to illegal immigration and enforcing the law wants to kill illegal immigrants on sight??? And you want us to believe that your stupid lies are "reasonable"?
Where do you get this ignorant swill from, MSNBC? Or did your own little feeble mind think this stuff up all by itself?
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-whacky098.gif)
Ray
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well andy, since you spent the majority of your post exaggerating the evils one position, perhaps we should consider another position, which you appear to be advocating:
how about those people people that want to immediately legalize all the immigrants here and others that arrive...whether they be criminal or not...the should all be eligible for unemployment, wic, welfare, section 8 housing, free medical care and obamaphone....
I think it is best NOT to spend TOO much time distorting other people's position. I'd rather just hear what YOU think is a reasonable position on the issue.
This seems reasonable enough to me...if our representatives REALLY decided to seal the border like most of the public wants, it could be done...If we need more workers, I'd rather we import some legally and use a temporary workforce for others...What the hell kind of system is it we have now, where just about anybody can make it through, be it by foot, or by coyote....the penalties need to be severe enough to discourage most of the people from trying to cross.
Fathertime!
Yes it is not that difficult. First priority should be securing the border as a matter of national security and then deciding what to do with the illegal criminals that are here. That decision should be based on what is in the best interest of the American people and that factor alone.
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Yes it is not that difficult. First priority should be securing the border as a matter of national security and then deciding what to do with the illegal criminals that are here. That decision should be based on what is in the best interest of the American people and that factor alone.
It's like saying we should get to zero defects before we ever sell a car to the public. If that was the case we'd all still be riding horses to this day. The 38th parallel between South and North Korea is the most secure border on the planet and still a few North Koreans have disabled the electrified fencing and found their way through the landmines to the South. What needs to happen is a comprehensive immigration solution that is our best attempt to solve the problems at hand.
It's the name-calling and red/blue political dividing that stands in the way of that. It's the absurdity of doing what the RNC says should be done on immigration or the heritage foundation says should be done on healthcare and being called liberal for it that is asinine.
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What needs to happen is a comprehensive immigration solution that is our best attempt to solve the problems at hand.
English translation: 'Give everyone full amnesty, citizenship and all the benefits that come with it, and don't do a damn thing about the border'.
I watched for years while the Democrats in Sacramento did everything they could think of to stop the completion of the border fence in San Diego. They used every lame excuse from environmental damage to protection of endangered bugs, but they were too cowardly to admit that they don't want ANY control of our borders.
Open borders and citizenship for all criminals because they think the new citizens will vote overwhelmingly for Democrats...period! End of story!
Now THAT is asinine!
Ray
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English translation: 'Give everyone full amnesty, citizenship and all the benefits that come with it, and don't do a damn thing about the border'.
If you are going to translate you better understand the definition of words. Amnesty involves forgetting or overlooking a past offense. By forcing them to pay a fine, back taxes, future taxes, and commit no crimes (outside of traffic violations) that would not be amnesty. It would however be changing the rules to deal with the present realities in this country. If you disagree with that change so be it as you are a rather loud vocal minority. However, name-calling and mislabeling Republican backed immigration proposals does nothing to advance the argument.
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as you are a rather loud vocal minority.
the pot calls the kettle black.
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the pot calls the kettle black.
Wrong this site is a minority in general. It's hard to really classify you in any particular way as your only hobby on here is to criticize me as you've had no particular value to your postings. But generally speaking the politics here and dating theory is anything but mainstream. That's okay of course, but the average Joe and Jane are most likely to get weirded out by this site and popular terms such as "mail order bride". And yes immigration reform is a rather mainstream idea attracting republicans interested in winning again this decade, democrats, independents, and Americans from all walks.
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If you are going to translate you better understand the definition of words. Amnesty involves forgetting or overlooking a past offense.
Really another 'lecture' for Ray about basic definitions?
If you are going to translate you better understand the definition of words. Amnesty involves forgetting or overlooking a past offense. By forcing them to pay a fine, back taxes, future taxes, and commit no crimes (outside of traffic violations) that would not be amnesty. It would however be changing the rules to deal with the present realities in this country. If you disagree with that change so be it as you are a rather loud vocal minority. However, name-calling and mislabeling Republican backed immigration proposals does nothing to advance the argument.
It sounds like your preference is to legalize everyone here and worry about the borders later....if that is the typical opinion from the comprehensive reform people, than the bills will continue to languish and go nowhere... If a citizen like Bcc is against closing the borders than that is his choice, but we do have a sovereign country here with laws and if they aren't being enforced than we have no obligation to make the lawbreakers full citizens. I think YOUR opinion is the loud minority opinion.
More serious effort needs to be made with closing the borders and real workplace enforcement...if that is not going to happen than we will have another 20 million people to 'legalize in 15 years or less.
Fathertime!
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Wrong this site is a minority in general. It's hard to really classify you in any particular way as your only hobby on here is to criticize me .
speaking of minorities and majorities, the majority of ignorant comments come from you which makes you a minority in general.
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It's the name-calling and red/blue political dividing that stands in the way of that.
Yea--a lot of that gets in the way of a lot of things, that's for sure.
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It's like saying we should get to zero defects before we ever sell a car to the public. If that was the case we'd all still be riding horses to this day. The 38th parallel between South and North Korea is the most secure border on the planet and still a few North Koreans have disabled the electrified fencing and found their way through the landmines to the South. What needs to happen is a comprehensive immigration solution that is our best attempt to solve the problems at hand.
It's the name-calling and red/blue political dividing that stands in the way of that. It's the absurdity of doing what the RNC says should be done on immigration or the heritage foundation says should be done on healthcare and being called liberal for it that is asinine.
You are wrong on that. Just because a few will be successful doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. There are millions of illegals in this country. Many of them could be terrorists. There is no excuse for not having a secure border.
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If you are going to translate you better understand the definition of words. Amnesty involves forgetting or overlooking a past offense. By forcing them to pay a fine, back taxes, future taxes, and commit no crimes (outside of traffic violations) that would not be amnesty. It would however be changing the rules to deal with the present realities in this country. If you disagree with that change so be it as you are a rather loud vocal minority. However, name-calling and mislabeling Republican backed immigration proposals does nothing to advance the argument.
I really don’t need another lecture from an ignorant fool such as yourself.
Now instead of relying on bcc’s ignorance and the word of a bunch of lying Democrats who are trying to fool us into believing that their plan for the legalization of illegal aliens is not amnesty, let’s check in with an actual highly regarded authority, Miriam Webster:
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Full Definition of AMNESTY : the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals
Examples of AMNESTY
1. The government gave amnesty to all political prisoners.
2. Illegal immigrants who came into the country before 1982 were granted amnesty.
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This stupid nonsense of paying a fine and then getting a green card is pure BULLSHYT!
By forgiving the illegals and pardoning their violation of the law and allowing them to avoid the prescribed punishment (banning them from any immigration benefits for 10 years to life as the law calls for), you are granting them AMNESTY.
And we aren't even getting into the crime of identity theft yet...
Now do YOU understand the definition of the word AMNESTY bcc? (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-whacky098.gif)
Ray
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Yea--a lot of that gets in the way of a lot of things, that's for sure.
Heritage plan got passed for health care. The outrage about it is all a fake distraction. Republicans will get an immigration deal done before the next presidential election because they want to win.
I worry about the job market, but I love how some have bought the terrorism argument hook, line and sinker. That word has done terrible things. It's taken away almost all of the bill of rights. It's screwed our civil liberties. All because of this ginned up fear against the unknown man in a cave. I'm not afraid of the man in the cave. I'm not afraid of a standing army. I'm afraid of the banker. And I most certainly don't see things as red and blue. I'd prefer to see the world the way Charles A. Lindbergh saw it.
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And I most certainly don't see things as red and blue.
I don't know how you can say that with a straight face...you appear to be VERY partisan to me....everything is about the democrats winning the next election and who gets the votes from hispanics...
I worry about the job market, but I love how some have bought the terrorism argument hook, line and sinker. That word has done terrible things. It's taken away almost all of the bill of rights. It's screwed our civil liberties.
It sounds to me like you are complaining that the word 'terrorism' might take away the "RIGHT" for illegal immigrants to continue crossing over our border unchecked.
Leaving the possibility of terrorists outta the equation for a moment, I still don't think our country should be taking on any old person that decides they want to cross the border...That is no way to conduct an immigration plan...You appear to advocate that nothing much change regarding border enforcement...and I conclude the reason for that is that you have only enjoyed the benefits of lowered labor costs and suffered very little of consequences in the city you live in...I think you have a VERY incomplete picture because of that....
Fathertime!
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I don't know how you can say that with a straight face...you appear to be VERY partisan to me....everything is about the democrats winning the next election and who gets the votes from hispanics...
It sounds to me like you are complaining that the word 'terrorism' might take away the "RIGHT" for illegal immigrants to continue crossing over our border unchecked.
Leaving the possibility of terrorists outta the equation for a moment, I still don't think our country should be taking on any old person that decides they want to cross the border...That is no way to conduct an immigration plan...You appear to advocate that nothing much change regarding border enforcement...and I conclude the reason for that is that you have only enjoyed the benefits of lowered labor costs and suffered very little of consequences in the city you live in...I think you have a VERY incomplete picture because of that....
Fathertime!
Only someone glued to fox news and away from reality would think that about me. I can still remember how shocked they all were even when it was clear from the beginning that Obama had it in the bag. It is not my fault they are retarded. And it's why I just said the Republicans will pass immigration reform before the next election. Because without it they can't win. With it then we are talking about a different ballgame.
As for an electrified fence or whatever you might like. Go for it. Knock yourself out. Turn it into the 38th. Now that that discussion is over how do you handle all the people in this country not paying taxes?
And sadly we can penalize and back tax the illegal immigrants (which we should do) and that still wont solve our budget problems. That all starts with the privately held central bank. Ironically England's central bank was causing our debt and was the reason for our country declaring independence in the first place.
You can argue over the heritage foundation's healthcare plan, immigration, gay marriage, or whatever BS issues of the day you like but this country has been forced into slavery and debt ever since the foundation of the federal reserve (which is private not public despite the name) and the central bank attempts that came before it.
It is mathematically impossible for us as a country to ever get out of debt as the Federal Reserve always lends the money to us with interest. It's the exact reason we fought England, and it is the real problem we face every day that most can't even see because idiots want to make up names for Obama or talk about how socialist some conservative think tank healthcare plan is.
Obama bailed out the banks. He bailed out the auto industry a 2nd time after Bush. He has raised healthcare costs for men and has created more business for private healthcare by forcing everyone to purchase it. He's done very little reform to the financial sector and banking industry because he still allows the same system to dictate the economy, the money in the economy, and the rates. Obama is very big business and banker friendly. He's not a liberal, socialist, progressive at all.
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Only someone glued to fox news and away from reality would think that about me. I can still remember how shocked they all were even when it was clear from the beginning that Obama had it in the bag. It is not my fault they are retarded. And it's why I just said the Republicans will pass immigration reform before the next election. Because without it they can't win. With it then we are talking about a different ballgame.
You make stupid partisan comments like these and then start moping when you get called names…undoubtedly you deserve it! So you should not ever complain about that again.
You have failed to respond to in a meaningful way to the question of border enforcement...in your world it doesn't matter much since very few illegals are finding their way to your schools...at least for now....
As for an electrified fence or whatever you might like. Go for it. Knock yourself out. Turn it into the 38th. Now that that discussion is over how do you handle all the people in this country not paying taxes?
And sadly we can penalize and back tax the illegal immigrants (which we should do) and that still wont solve our budget problems. That all starts with the privately held central bank. Ironically England's central bank was causing our debt and was the reason for our country declaring independence in the first place.
You can argue over the heritage foundation's healthcare plan, immigration, gay marriage, or whatever BS issues of the day you like but this country has been forced into slavery and debt ever since the foundation of the federal reserve (which is private not public despite the name) and the central bank attempts that came before it.
It is mathematically impossible for us as a country to ever get out of debt as the Federal Reserve always lends the money to us with interest. It's the exact reason we fought England, and it is the real problem we face every day that most can't even see because idiots want to make up names for Obama or talk about how socialist some conservative think tank healthcare plan is.
You sound like a uninformed, inexperienced, whacko that lacks the discipline to stay on topic regarding the title of the thread....this is what happens when everything is given to a young person...or when he is catered to, too much.
Fathertime!
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Obama is very big business and banker friendly. He's not a liberal, socialist, progressive at all.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-cartoon-022.gif)
OMG! Thanks for the laugh bozo...
Only a complete idiot retard would believe that. Just more outright lies from from our little leftist Obama lapdog.
Ray
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Well, now it's official.
Obama wins the title for his big lie on Obamacare...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/ (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/)
(http://rs133.pbsrc.com/albums/q48/aybooba/liar-1-0_zps4199f2ce.jpg~c200?t=1386914722)
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(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMbjB5NVBb50kbshLicuLwe-_51YOo3q3jXq_xGMhh2PJ1NxeI23Qq0mjX)
Obama has been deceptive from the get-go. This doesn't surprise me. I am waiting for his push on amnesty....err...um Immigration reform. Telling lies has been the cornerstone of his administration.
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Lies, lies, and more lies...
He just keeps stacking up the awards.
Now his friends at the Washinton Post give Obama 3 of the 5 major Pinocchio Awards for 2013.
(http://rs133.pbsrc.com/albums/q48/aybooba/takeafrownandturnitupsidedown_thumb2-300x216_zpsf2008fcf.jpg~c200?t=1387502731)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/12/16/the-biggest-pinocchios-of-2013/?wprss=rss_national&clsrd (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/12/16/the-biggest-pinocchios-of-2013/?wprss=rss_national&clsrd)
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The lies are pretty preposterous....it is too bad he doesn't suffer some real consequences for it...we deserve to hear the truth about things so we can make the right judgments come election time.
Fathertime!
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And yet another example of what happens when the Democrats publicly announce a sanctuary policy for Illegal Aliens.
Yeah, this poor illegal was only a hard-working immigrant doing the job (murder) that Americans won't do....
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Officials say suspect in killings of California deputies was deported twice
Published October 26, 2014
FoxNews.com
The suspect alleged to have shot three northern California sheriff's deputies Friday, killing two, was deported twice and has a criminal record, federal officials said late Saturday.
A U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman said that the fingerprints of the suspected shooter match those of a man named Luis Enrique Monroy-Bracamonte. Monroy-Bracamonte was initially deported to Mexico in 1997 after being convicted of drug possession in Arizona. Four years later, he was arrested and deported again for an unspecified offense.
"The fingerprints were the basis for our request for an immigration detainer," ICE spokeswoman Virginia Kice told The Associated Press. The detainer requests that local authorities transfer him to federal custody after his case is adjudicated so ICE can purse his deportation, Kice said.
The suspect initially identified himself as Marcelo Marquez, 34, of Salt Lake City. He is charged with two counts each of murder, attempted murder and carjacking. The suspect's wife, Janelle Marquez-Monroy, was also arrested Friday and charged with carjacking and attempted murder.
Investigators spent Saturday at the multiple crime scenes "trying to kind of sort through the chaos so we can methodically rebuild this," Placer County Sheriff Ed Bonner said.
The shootings began when Sacramento County sheriff's Deputy Danny Oliver, 47, was shot in the forehead with an assault rifle at close range as he checked out a suspicious car in a motel parking lot.
The suspects have talked to investigators, Bonner said, but what sparked the shootings remained unclear.
"'Why,' I guess, will remain a question for a long time," he said. "Why was his reaction so violent?"
It was also unclear what brought the heavily armed suspects from Utah to California, Bonner said. There were no indications they had been sought by authorities.
No attorneys were listed for either suspect in jail records.
Krista Sorenson of Salt Lake City was confounded by the arrest of the Marquez. He and his brother had mowed her lawn about four years ago.
"They were just super nice, decent hard-working, trying to figure out how to make a living," she said.
Oliver, a 15-year veteran of the department, left a wife and two daughters. After he was killed, the gunman shot Anthony Holmes, 38, of Sacramento at least twice, including once in the head, during an attempted carjacking. He was in fair condition.
The attackers then stole a pickup truck and fled about 30 miles northeast into neighboring Placer County.
Two deputies who approached the pickup while it was parked alongside a road were shot with an AR-15-type assault weapon and never had a chance to return fire, Erwin said. The gunman fled into a neighborhood near a high school and ran into a home. Police used tear gas to force him to surrender.
Homicide Detective Michael David Davis Jr., 42, died at a hospital 26 years to the day after his father, for whom he was named, died in the line of duty as a Riverside County deputy.
Deputy Jeff Davis was treated for a gunshot wound to the arm. The two deputies are not related.
The gunman fled into a neighborhood near a high school and ran into a home. Police used tear gas to force him to surrender.
Several dozen law enforcement vehicles, with lights silently flashing, escorted a hearse carrying Michael Davis' flag-draped casket to a funeral home as bystanders and law enforcement officials hugged, saluted and wiped away tears.
"It's a nightmare for all of us," Bonner said.
He recalled Davis as a well-liked investigator who once took it upon himself to organize a funeral for an abandoned baby.
"He saw it, his heart ached, and he did something about it," Bonner said. "That's who he was."
Davis' wife works as an evidence technician for the department and his brother is a sergeant.
"Mike was quite a character," Erwin said. "He was very funny. He didn't take things very seriously, maybe because he was a homicide detective for so long."
A search of Utah court records under Marcelo Marquez's name shows a history of about 10 tickets and misdemeanor traffic offenses between 2003 and 2009. Those records list one speeding ticket for Monroy in 2009 and three small claims filings attempting to collect outstanding debts.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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