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Offline michaelb

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Notary Public
« on: March 27, 2015, 02:38:30 PM »
Anybody know a Notary Public in Cali? No, I don't mean a Colombian notary who keeps birth and death records and performs marriages etc., I mean somebody with a U.S. notary public license to notarize the signature on a document that will be used in the United States. You know, just like you could pop into any bank in the U.S. and have them do for a nominal fee. I know that the U.S. state department will do it at the embassy in Bogota and at the consulate office in Barranquilla, but I need one in Cali.

Offline JamesDonut

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 03:08:36 PM »
What you are talking about is an Apostille stamp.   So if you are planning to use a Colombian document abroad, Colombia has to stamp it (Apostilla).  So you need to go to the Cancilleria.

Cancilleria Link

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Offline michaelb

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 03:20:40 PM »
Thanks, James, but that's not what I need. It's not a Colombian document. It's a form for me to retire from work. Due to how you want to handle the the allocation of the pension, the spouse has to sign it (and her signature must be notarized). But right now my wife is in Cali (and probably will be there a while, she's taking care of her dying mother).

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 03:20:40 PM »

Offline JamesDonut

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 03:28:30 PM »
Ahh understood.  All I can say is good luck with that.  I'm betting you'll end up at one of the embassy or consulate.
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Offline robert angel

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 03:54:47 PM »
Typically the license for a NP expires every 5 years. Even if you happened into someone down there who is a NP from the USA, he/she probably wouldn't have the stamp/seal if they're visiting and if they're living there, probably didn't figure they'd be using it much and didn't bring it either.

We were able to take a picture of my wife's passport, using a note-tablet, attach it to a handwritten letter on the same tablet  and send it overseas via email, giving her brother power to handle closing and other legal details on our house in the Philippines. The court accepted it. Sometimes you can accent a notary public stamp so it shows via electronic sends.

But each country--situation varies of course
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Offline michaelb

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 04:09:29 PM »
I was thinking (hoping) that maybe a law firm that handles international transactions or a bank with an international department or maybe even a freight forwarder might have one on staff who keeps their US credentials current, but so far we haven't found one.


I contacted the embassy and asked them if they had a list of people/firms in Cali, but they just told me that I could get it done at the embassy or the consulate in Barranquilla----which I already knew.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 04:15:13 PM by michaelb »

Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 04:53:54 PM »
Your wife can take the form to a notaria in Cali (suggest the one in La 14 Calima) and sign it and the notaria will witness/validate her signature. However the notaria will want an official translation of the document by a licensed translator because he isn't going to witness something he can't read. He will sign and stamp both versions but she may have to ask him to. If it has to be apostilled there are several "tramitadora" offices in close proximity to Migracion Colombia (a few blocks down from Exito de La Flora) that can have that done. She can FEDEX it to you. It will be completely legal in the US. A US notary would have no juristicion in Colombia so no point barking up that tree.

Offline michaelb

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 06:06:50 PM »
beuncamino, thank. Now that's an idea. I could translate it myself (I did all the translations for her K-1 visa like 12 years ago) but I'm not licensed to translate in Colombia. Maybe I will translate it myself and tell her to take my translation and give it a try.......maybe for a "little extra" the notaria will suddenly realize that he can read English well enough to witness it. Worth a try, if not, the notaria can probably recommend a licensed translator that s/he likes. Actually, she won't have to FEDEX it, the retirement office said that would accept an email attachment of the scanned document. Think I'll translate it tonight and send it to her and then tell her to take it to the place you mentioned on Monday. I just always thought that the notarias in Colombia didn't witness signatures like a notary public does up here.


Thanks, everybody.

Offline Awesome

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 06:21:20 PM »
It will be completely legal in the US. A US notary would have no juristicion in Colombia so no point barking up that tree.


Are you 100% sure about that?  If a us notary has not jurisdiction in colombia, then why do they have them at the us embassies and consulates?


And are you sure that a colombian notaria publico is valid in the us?  No need for an apostilla?  We're talking about us documents being signed by us citizens.  Michaelb's employer might see that colombian notary and think wtf is this?


Damn it I went over my 1 post a day limit.  Now I can't post again for another 3 days, daaaamn!!

Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 07:16:57 PM »
You should reread my post carefully to answer your other questions but as to: am 100% sure? Yes.

Offline Awesome

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 07:33:03 PM »
You should reread my post carefully to answer your other questions but as to: am 100% sure? Yes.


Ok I get it now.  A colombian notaria + apostilla is valid.  An american notary, even if it's done at the us embassy/consulate is not valid.  And this is for us documents, for a us company located in the usa, signed by us citizens.  100% sure.

Offline Ray

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2015, 08:50:18 PM »
Hi michael,

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that a Notary Public can only perform that function in the state or jurisdiction where they are commissioned. I would call your bank or a local notary and ask about that.

The topic of having US documents notarized while overseas has come up on the forum before. My recollection is that you would have to use the State Dept for notarizing US documents for use back home.

Also, unless it has changed in recent years, the consulates charge fifty bucks per document for notary service.

Sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. I'll remember her in my prayers.


Ray

Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2015, 09:05:35 PM »

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2015, 09:05:35 PM »

Offline michaelb

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2015, 10:10:54 PM »
Thanks, Ray. I'm going to try what buencamino suggested. You are right about the embassy charging $50.00 per document, that's exactly what it says on the embassy web site. While fifty dollars is outrageous (around here it costs five or six, or sometimes free) I almost would mind paying it, but she's in Cali and they're only in Bogota and Barranquilla.




Offline JamesDonut

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 12:44:25 PM »
Thanks, Ray. I'm going to try what buencamino suggested. You are right about the embassy charging $50.00 per document, that's exactly what it says on the embassy web site. While fifty dollars is outrageous (around here it costs five or six, or sometimes free) I almost would mind paying it, but she's in Cali and they're only in Bogota and Barranquilla.

STOP! Do not pass go...

I wouldn't do what Buencamino suggested.  An Apostille is only valid for a document produced in said country.  You have a US document to be used in a US destination.  A Colombian Apostille will not be accepted even if notarized beforehand. (On top of that the Apostille office may even refuse to stamp it in the first place.)   You do also realize that the Notary and Apostille will also be in Spanish right?  Which means the retirement office won't accept it anyways.



This is the mess people get themselves in when trying to cut corners.  Just be smart and pay the $50.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 12:47:04 PM by JamesDonut »
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Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2015, 04:50:41 PM »
Well fine perhaps Michaelb's "retirement office" won't accept the process I describe however I can state for a fact that at least one county court in a US state has. As to chasing an apostil for a document signed in front of a notary at the US Embassy that would appear to be   pissing in the wind. Here's what the US Embassy in Bogotá has to say:

 "U.S. consular officials also cannot authenticate or apostille U.S. or Colombian public documents..."

http://bogota.usembassy.gov/service/notary-services.html

So what is an apostille anyway (also apostil)? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it was explained to me that each US state has an apostille office in it's capitol and that that office certifies that a given notary in that state is in good standing. I found this out when I once sent documents for official translation to a service that was located in a different state than the one I was in. I asked the service to have the result notarized (the result being their signature on it) which they happily did. When I tried to get it apostilled in the state I was in it was rejected since the notary was not licensed in my state. If my understanding as I have explained it is correct then it is obvious why the US Embassy in Bogotá can't issue an apostille. Again correct me if I am wrong but a notary doesn't certify the verity of any documents. He or she simply verifies the signature of the person who signs it. My understanding is that Michaelb's retirement entity simple wants a notarized signature from his wife on his retirement application. I suspect that what is acceptable to a county court in a US state is probably also acceptable to Michaelb's  retirement entity and it would be nice to save his wife an unnecessary trip to Bogotá. In any event it is probably not the first time his retirement entity has dwelt with such a situation so he can simple ask them what they'll accept.

Offline Awesome

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2015, 08:48:45 PM »
As to chasing an apostil for a document signed in front of a notary at the US Embassy that would appear to be   pissing in the wind.


Yeah dude, you're just confirming what jd already said.  You think you're arguing, but you're saying the same exact thing.


If it's a US produced document, notarized by a US notary, signed by a US citizen, an apostille shouldn't even enter into the conversation.


Michaelb, it looks like your wife might have to catch one of those cheap domestic flights to bogota and back.  But first check with your emloyer/retirement people, maybe you'll get lucky and what bc said is correct after all.

Offline utopiacowboy

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2015, 09:38:40 AM »
The US and Colombia along with many other countries are signatories to the Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalization for Foreign Public Documents. This treaty greatly simplifies the process by which documents are certified for use in other countries. This is the purpose of the apostille. Unfortunately Canada has not signed this treaty and Canadian documents must be certified twice, once by the Deputy Minister of External Affairs in Ottawa and after that by a Canadian official at the Canadian embassy in Bogota. When I got married in Colombia I had to have all my Canadian documents go through this process and it was a real PITA.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 05:49:29 PM by utopiacowboy »

Offline Ray

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2015, 02:59:20 PM »
Well fine perhaps Michaelb's "retirement office" won't accept the process I describe however I can state for a fact that at least one county court in a US state has. As to chasing an apostil for a document signed in front of a notary at the US Embassy that would appear to be   pissing in the wind. Here's what the US Embassy in Bogotá has to say:

 "U.S. consular officials also cannot authenticate or apostille U.S. or Colombian public documents..."

http://bogota.usembassy.gov/service/notary-services.html

So what is an apostille anyway (also apostil)? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it was explained to me that each US state has an apostille office in it's capitol and that that office certifies that a given notary in that state is in good standing. I found this out when I once sent documents for official translation to a service that was located in a different state than the one I was in. I asked the service to have the result notarized (the result being their signature on it) which they happily did. When I tried to get it apostilled in the state I was in it was rejected since the notary was not licensed in my state. If my understanding as I have explained it is correct then it is obvious why the US Embassy in Bogotá can't issue an apostille. Again correct me if I am wrong but a notary doesn't certify the verity of any documents. He or she simply verifies the signature of the person who signs it. My understanding is that Michaelb's retirement entity simple wants a notarized signature from his wife on his retirement application. I suspect that what is acceptable to a county court in a US state is probably also acceptable to Michaelb's  retirement entity and it would be nice to save his wife an unnecessary trip to Bogotá. In any event it is probably not the first time his retirement entity has dwelt with such a situation so he can simple ask them what they'll accept.



BINGO!

That is probably the best solution to his dilemma. I have found that company HR officers are often willing to bend/modify the rules for different situations that come up.

Ask them what they will accept as proof of a valid spouse signature in lieu of the customary notary certification.


Ray





Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2015, 07:48:19 PM »
Lets hope Michaelb informs us of the denouement.

Offline michaelb

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2015, 07:14:29 PM »
Update. The retirement office has decided that they can accept the Colombian notary. Thanks everybody for your help and suggestions. Buencamino, I'm going to send her to the one you recommended.

Offline buencamino

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2015, 07:22:01 PM »
Thanks for posting that update Michaelb and I hope my recommendation works for you.

Offline Awesome

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2015, 09:03:17 PM »
So buencamino was right all along.  Hey I never doubted him for a second.  Well ok just for like a half a second, jaja!!


Congrats michaelb, that should save you and your wife some cash and the headache of traveling all over freaking colombia to do your paperwork.

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Re: Notary Public
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2015, 09:03:17 PM »

 

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