Colombia: Age of Consent May Change

[robert angel]

Anyone that thinks we shouldn't prosecute adults that prey on underage girls are defending child molesters. You are either okay with it or you aren't. Are you cool with citizens diddling your daughter, or are you not? It's pretty straight forward.

I shouldn't even dignify your post and consequent bizarre question, but while it's a sick, twisted and unwarranted question to even ask, perhaps that's indicative of where you're really coming from. One must consider the source...

Maybe if the law said 'and/or' it'd be more precise, believe it or not. That's why I said things (unfortunately) aren't as 'cut and dry' as they seem, and just as in the case here, laws written as they are all too often allow such vermin to escape (Judicial anyways) 'justice.'

I suppose if I described the defense they used in OJ Simpson's case and other cases where legal loopholes and lack of clarity in 'the law' allowed obviously guilty people to get away with murder, you'd be asking if I was a proponent of homicide, eh? Nah--probably wouldn't ring your bell---you're the unique kind of guy who supports taking out advertisements looking for females in third world nations.

It's an example of loopholes that sick, twisted lawyers and their equally minded 'clients' --who they represent, can and do exploit. That's just one reason why (again) we have an appeals and a statute of limitations allowing for prosecution long (not long enough) after accusations come forward, to go after child molesters, even if they escape justice the first time. If you think I was mounting some sort of defense on behalf of child molesters or myself, for that matter--you must not have heard the wise old adage: "Anyone who represents themselves as a lawyer, has a fool for a client"

Must have struck pretty close to home though--so many of your posts have weird sexual innuendos within.

[fathertime]

Colombia doesn't have to like it, but they are "little brother".

How do you mean?  I would imagine Colombia could thumb their nose at us if they wanted to. 


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

Just so you know what you are dealing with down here.....a 15 year old girl and a 40 year old guy are fine to get it on....provided they are both Colombians.


If the 40 year old guy is a gringo they will extort as much money as possible out of him and then let him go. jajaja

I'm sure you are mostly right, I guess it almost always comes down to the green, by this example it obviously has nothing to do with actually trying to protect the pureness of anyone.   


Fathertime!

[fathertime]

If us imposing our laws on other nations doesn't make us unpopular enough already, take a look at Chinese investment in  C. & S. America sometime. It isn't any wonder that beyond attempts at controlling things like the Panama Canal, that they've dropped 12 or 13 billion in yuan to USD equivalent on projects in Ecuador alone, in exchange for 90% of all future oil, which could be substantial. I'm not saying the Chinese are popular personally, but they are playing a more sympathetic hand recently and it seem to be winning in terms of buying influence and securing long term gains down yonder.

Wrong area for this, but I find it interesting and perhaps deserving of its own thread. Besides the huge petroleum refinery in Manta and  hydro electric projects also in Ecuador not even mentioned here, the Transoceanic Nicaragua Canal (which in short order China will own) and hundreds of billions in additional promised investments, the Chinese Premier's grand S. American tour and more, should pique somebody's interest. Not a big fan of Huffington Post or the NY Times, but the NYT has a better article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rafael-salazar/chinese-investment-in-lat_b_7621160.html

Well Robert, the Chinese have a lot of the money now, which I know you realize means that they are going to make their own moves.  I would suspect many of the countries  of Central/South America are willing to partner with them, if they feel they are going to get a fair shake, or at least a better shake then any other nation will give them.


Fathertime!   

[bcc_1_2]

How do you mean?  I would imagine Colombia could thumb their nose at us if they wanted to. 


Fathertime!

Or they could get along and go along. Unless you are China that's probably the best option. Even if you are big like Russia you could end up on your knees because Obama does an inside deal with the Saudis so gas costs a nickel.

As for the can you sleep with underage women, girls, boys... overseas as long as you don't pay them... or is it molestation. I would just have to ask what kind of question is that?


I see it from the view of the next decent set of men headed down to meet women. You don't want all your pedophiles flocking to colombia and changing what is a pretty good dynamic for young single gringos.

[mudd]

First you have to take a good hard look at a chick's cedula to make sure the photo is of her because if it is a real cedula the websites won't help....so the first question that needs to be answered is "Is it her in the picture?" If not.... send her packing....well before she ever sets foot in your apartment.

i have seen a few fake cedulas, very hard to spot unless  somebody knows what to look for. same with fake drivers licenses, friends gf has one, i couldnt tell by looking at it, it was fake,

but from my police friend here, most girls will use a girls cedula that the photo looks similar to their face.

In Medellin there seems to be a trend where underage girls are pretending to be of age and seeking out gringos to friend them online....they even have fake cedulas.....the girls talk the gringos into letting them come over and then ten minutes after they get there the police are knocking on the door.

Before the guys know whats going on they are accusing you of paying to have sex with a minor and the whole  while the new found facebook friend is shaking her head "yes" to all the accusations. jajaja

even the mayor in medellin has given instructions to crack down on foreigners with underage girls, and yes their are some police who are working with underage girls to extort $$ from unsuspecting gringos. if they dont pay up, off to jail you go and a colombian jail is not where a foreigner wants to be.

[Calipro]

i have seen a few fake cedulas, very hard to spot unless  somebody knows what to look for. same with fake drivers licenses, friends gf has one, i couldnt tell by looking at it, it was fake,

but from my police friend here, most girls will use a girls cedula that the photo looks similar to their face.

I don't try and tell the fake cedulas by looking at them...hard to do without a black light.


But I am pretty good at looking at the picture date of birth on the cedula and looking at the chick right in front of me and making a fairly accurate determination if it is her or not.


And if the pic is hers the cedula better check out with the websites....or it is a no go.


Is it a perfect way to tell if a cedula is fake or not?  "NO" but it is at least 90% effective in finding the underage liars.

[robert angel]

Well Robert, the Chinese have a lot of the money now, which I know you realize means that they are going to make their own moves.  I would suspect many of the countries  of Central/South America are willing to partner with them, if they feel they are going to get a fair shake, or at least a better shake then any other nation will give them.


Fathertime!

Can you blame them? I know you don't--they're looking out for their own best interest. I know who'd I'd favor if they offered a great deal more (but I'd look at long term ramifications too)  and even if I didn't take one hand, how it could be played against the other hand.

I just wonder what the impact further north that the Pacific to Atlantic transoceanic canal will have on the economic and ecological well being of Nicaragua. The Chinese will pay Nicaragua a paltry 10 million dollars a year for ten years before taking ownership. Then they will likely take an economic loss to pressure the Panama Canal, although they already have significant influence in that realm.

I don't want to sound paranoid, but we do have to watch our geographic backyard. How things go there will effect our own economy long term. Showing respect, losing the Banana Republic' onus we still have working against us is important. Remembering 'good fences make good neighbors' is most certainly true, but it's more complicated than that of course. We must not overly interfere, but we should not let a friendly hand lose its welcome either

As for Colombia, not only is economic and what a joke here--'ecological aid' that is being promised, but out of the goodness of their hearts, I suppose, the Chinese are offering Colombia millions to curtail FARC.
http://colombiareports.com/chinas-prime-minister-visit-colombia-to-strengthen-trade-ties/

[fathertime]

 

As for the can you sleep with underage women, girls, boys... overseas as long as you don't pay them... or is it molestation. I would just have to ask what kind of question is that?
 

It certainly isn't a question for YOU to answer, as it was rhetorical.  In my opinion, whatever the law is, it should be clear...

Or they could get along and go along. Unless you are China that's probably the best option. Even if you are big like Russia you could end up on your knees because Obama does an inside deal with the Saudis so gas costs a nickel.

I'd say Colombia will strike deals with whoever they can get the most from.  They are a nation of near 50 million.  Given our souring reputation, I wouldn't suspect we are going to do anything militarily to them, but yes we will financially strong arm as many as we can for as long as it makes sense.   
At some point it might be China making the 'inside deals' then at that point, are we suddenly going to start to cry about how unfair it is when the shoe is on the other foot?  It may be about time for us to treat other nations the same way we would want be treated if/when the situation were turned.  I think when our self-interest trumps other nations interests, they should react to protect themselves, as they are the only ones that truly will.


Fathertime!

[robert angel]

I shouldn't even dignify your post and consequent bizarre question, but while it's a sick, twisted and unwarranted question to even ask, perhaps that's indicative of where you're really coming from. One must consider the source...

Maybe if the law said 'and/or' it'd be more precise, believe it or not. That's why I said things (unfortunately) aren't as 'cut and dry' as they seem, and just as in the case here, laws written as they are all too often allow such vermin to escape (Judicial anyways) 'justice.'

I suppose if I described the defense they used in OJ Simpson's case and other cases where legal loopholes and lack of clarity in 'the law' allowed obviously guilty people to get away with murder, you'd be asking if I was a proponent of homicide, eh? Nah--probably wouldn't ring your bell---you're the unique kind of guy who supports taking out advertisements looking for females in third world nations.

It's an example of loopholes that sick, twisted lawyers and their equally minded 'clients' --who they represent, can and do exploit. That's just one reason why (again) we have an appeals and a statute of limitations allowing for prosecution long (not long enough) after accusations come forward, to go after child molesters, even if they escape justice the first time. If you think I was mounting some sort of defense on behalf of child molesters or myself, for that matter--you must not have heard the wise old adage: "Anyone who represents themselves as a lawyer, has a fool for a client"

Must have struck pretty close to home though--so many of your posts have weird sexual innuendos within.

[bcc_1_2]

Child molestation happened in my area growing up in the catholic churches. Even involving priests in the church I attended. Had my parents signed me up to be an alter boy I would have been around the child molesters as a child. I take this very seriously. Some of you have daughters, and I can assure you some weird older dudes followed them online at some point in their lives.

[robert angel]

Child molestation happened in my area growing up in the catholic churches. Even involving priests in the church I attended. Had my parents signed me up to be an alter boy I would have been around the child molesters as a child. I take this very seriously. Some of you have daughters, and I can assure you some weird older dudes followed them online at some point in their lives.

Some of us have sons too. I hear there were also a lot of unfortunate boys who were victims of predatory, child molesting priests. Sadly, you really convey the impression of being such an unfortunate victim.

[bcc_1_2]

Some of us have sons too. I hear there were also a lot of unfortunate boys who were victims of predatory, child molesting priests. Sadly, you really convey the impression of being such an unfortunate victim.

My understanding is most grown men wont talk about it. I remember kids from religious education class and some of them were alter boys. I'm not close with any of them, but to my knowledge nobody I know directly has come out and made accusations. Because of the stigma attached to it I don't really care what you think about it. I hope anyone who has been abused points the finger at the abuser. Also when people start splitting hairs... is it illegal if I don't "pay" her, well I take issue with that too. Just wait til she's an adult and then you can get it for free or pay her.


It's like when Ray calls you gay. Don't be that guy

[robert angel]

My understanding is most grown men wont talk about it. I remember kids from religious education class and some of them were alter boys. I'm not close with any of them, but to my knowledge nobody I know directly has come out and made accusations. Because of the stigma attached to it I don't really care what you think about it. I hope anyone who has been abused points the finger at the abuser. Also when people start splitting hairs... is it illegal if I don't "pay" her, well I take issue with that too. Just wait til she's an adult and then you can get it for free or pay her.


It's like when Ray calls you gay. Don't be that guy

Yes, it is sad that there is such stigma to it that grown men feel compelled to live their life in denial. It's part and parcel of the whole sordid picture. I am glad that Pope Francis is showing a lot of initiative in exposing this deep wound, as well as exposing and addressing other serious issues while actively rooting out evil. Best Pope we've had in quite a while, IMHO.

[bcc_1_2]

Yes, it is sad that there is such stigma to it that grown men feel compelled to live their life in denial. It's part and parcel of the whole sordid picture. I am glad that Pope Francis is showing a lot of initiative in exposing this deep wound, as well as exposing and addressing other serious issues while actively rooting out evil. Best Pope we've had in quite a while, IMHO.

Pope Frank is also probably not a fan of gringos or gringas traveling overseas to sleep with minors in South America.

[robert angel]

Pope Frank is also probably not a fan of gringos or gringas traveling overseas to sleep with minors in South America.

Pope Francis, only increased the love and respect he has amongst countless people of all faiths, when he said: "Who am I to judge?"
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/who-am-i-judge-popes-most-powerful-phrase-2013-f2D11791260

Bcc--somehow, I don't think such a phrase is in YOUR repertoire.

[Calipro]

wish you guys would stay on topic.....which is the unbelievable developement that Colombia is actually considering raising the age of consent from14 to 18.


And as a side note....how to protect yourself from underage girls lying about their age so they can sleep with older men for fun and profit.

[buencamino]

It's certainly not out of the question that Centro Democratico party (the uribistas) will prevail and the law will be changed. The party has a lot of clout and its candidate Dilian Francesca will probably be the next governor of Valle de Cauca department. But it seems like a pretty unpopular idea with the general public. Another interesting tidbit: a statutory rape law, ley de estrupro was put in place in 1980 but abolished in 2000.

[fathertime]

  Also when people start splitting hairs... is it illegal if I don't "pay" her, well I take issue with that too. Just wait til she's an adult and then you can get it for free or pay her.

It doesn't matter what YOU take issue with.  The law is what matters, so getting clarification on what the law says, and how it is and can be interpreted is much more important than what you 'take issue' with.   Frankly I don't mind what seems to be your position regarding young ladies possibly getting abused.  You are entitled to have this viewpoint and share it, BUT that should not preclude travelers having an ACCURATE idea of what laws they run against. 


BTW...Not everybody is going to agree with your position regarding what you or the US law defines as minors.  If Colombia says 14 (which I would say is too low for sure) and the US says 18, then it isn't unreasonable to look at around 16.  I believe there are 16 years and 17 year olds in Colombia that could live happily married to an older man/woman.  I won't be the guy obviously, but  some 25 or 30 year old guy/gal may be...no skin off my nose, if that is the law there, and it is a decent relationship, then i'm not going to step in with my personal morality and condemn them.  Perhaps you feel differently, and would like to share where you stand. 

And as a side note....how to protect yourself from underage girls lying about their age so they can sleep with older men for fun and profit.

Really that is a good question.  Maybe there is no iron clad protection.  If a gringo puts himself in position to get fooled, I guess he is going to have to pay up....just don't keep the Fort Knox in the house where the police can shake you down for everything you have. 


Fathertime!   

[robert angel]

I daresay that a lot of the younger girls/women have older 'help' facilitating the acquisition of very official, legal looking, but fraudulent documents. Not only that, but sometimes the police themselves are in on the whole thing. it can (certainly not always) become a 'set up' where a number of people make money off of the guy. I'll bet the girl makes the least.

But when you're in a different country, in a culture and amongst people who are in many ways different than you, you ought to know to take precautions. It's not always as easy as some might think either .Even in her mid 30's, and dressed very much her age, my wife gets carded quicker than slap anyplace that requires you to be of legal age. So yes, for some people, still it's hard to tell.

Sounds like Colombia's getting tougher than some US states--girls can marry at age 14 in some. Here's South Carolina's current law:

Waiting Period:

There is a 24-hour waiting period after the application is filed before the license can be picked up and the marriage can take place. If you want to get married on a weekend, make sure you apply for a marriage license by Thursday so you can pick up your license by Friday.
Blood Tests: 

No blood test or physical exam is required.

Under 18:
If you are under the age of 18, parental consent can be granted for boys who are at least 16 years old and for girls who are at least 14 years old


http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/south_carolina/index.shtml

[bcc_1_2]

Pope Francis, only increased the love and respect he has amongst countless people of all faiths, when he said: "Who am I to judge?"
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/who-am-i-judge-popes-most-powerful-phrase-2013-f2D11791260

Bcc--somehow, I don't think such a phrase is in YOUR repertoire.

I recognize the difference between prejudice (pre judging) and judging. I absolutely judge.


And so does the Pope. I'm sure he has a public opinion on such things.

[Ray]

It's like when Ray calls you gay. Don't be that guy

Are you stalking me again bcc?

I think that is rather queer of you... 

[bcc_1_2]

Are you stalking me again bcc?

I think that is rather queer of you... 

When is the last time you've been to Latin America? Color me curious.

[buencamino]

Bcc you should cut him some slack. The last post on the Asian forum was over a month ago...and it was his...

[bcc_1_2]

Bcc you should cut him some slack. The last post on the Asian forum was over a month ago...and it was his...

LOL. Well regardless it's really gone down hill when the talk has gone from Latinas, trips, etc to how young can I get legally and what are some loopholes I can use.