Has anyone else noticed....

[AsphaltVoyager]

I've been thinking a lot about what it is regarding Asian women that is fundamentally different about them versus "American" women. However, as I think more about the idea, I think that it quite applicable to a great deal to women of Central and South America as well.

The fundamental difference, I have come to realize, is the relative lack of importance to the non-AW where "chemistry" is concerned versus the extreme importance of strong family values in the mate they seek and what his moral character is like. Whereas being a really good person in this country will get you absolutely nowhere with a woman who is native (she'd rather chase the "bad boys"), those qualities have the potential to take you straight to the heart of an Asian woman in very short order.

I realize that this is a blanket generalization, but other than the green-card seekers, from what I have observed and experienced, this is pretty accurate.

This difference was not accurate in the days of our parents. Being a genuinely good person meant something then. No longer, however. Not in this country. And, to be perfectly frank, I think that the feminist movement HAS had a large role in creating this problem.

Am I the only one who has observed this? Or, do you see something else, very different from what I have?

edit** As I was thinking more about this, what occurred to me is that all I have said above adds up to: women in this country do NOT appreciate a good man. You hear them constantly whining about "where have all the good men gone?". Well, the answer to that is they've gone in search of women who actually ARE good and who will appreciate a man who is, as well.

[z_k_g]

AsphaltV,

I agree with you 100% and would add a few pointers of my own.

AmW live by one philosophy, "Whats mine is mine, whats yours is mine- or will be mine soon after I divorce you!!"

AmW enter into the relationship with an aura of entitlement, "I am the prize and you must do everything in your power to keep me around"

They make demands and have a list of requirements for YOU in the relationship, but, when asked what their wifely duties are....silence, a puzzled look and the stupid answers, "Didn't we just have awesome sex?", "Did you notice my tight abs?", "I am so sexy all the guys want me and you are soooo lucky!" and "how dare you ask that I participate as an equal in this relationship!!"

Our women have become barbie dolls that need only new Mercedes, Gucci purses, Sex In the City 2 tickets, a gay BFF, and girls night out.  Husbands and relationships are second thoughts.  No money dude, no relationship.

Just my rant for tonite.

Zulu

[william3rd]

Wow- what an epiphany. I will have to discuss this with my daughter and see where I went wrong. Allowing her to be all americanized and all. Same with my sister-where did my folks go wrong?

[AsphaltVoyager]

*lol* Yeah, there are plenty of AW who see you as an investment (if you're successful financially or have the potential to be).

The wonderful woman I met is divorced and childless (both of which conditions will be remedied at the first opportunity ). Like most women in the Far East and Middle East, she hasn't been in a relationship where she had equality with her mate. Additionally, she had to live with her spouse's wealthy parents because his character was too weak to separate from them. So, when I told her that I would insist that she be an equal partner with me, I rather suspect she was dumbfounded. She told me that she had always hoped for a relationship as an equal, though. To reinforce that feeling of equality and independence, she will have a bank account of her own once we marry. With that kind of security, I can be reasonably certain that she will not be staying with me out of some feeling of being trapped and when she stays with me, it will be of her free will, making our relationship all the more precious.

These are things that I offered to her, not that I was EXPECTED to give her as an AW would.

Furthermore, we have discussed our mutual goals in depth and agree on how we should get there, with both of us making contributions toward the goals. There's nothing lovestruck about either of us. We do love each other, very much so. But, we also are using common sense and giving each other the respect we deserve by agreeing to share a mutual ideal.

I feel I have been truly blessed to have met this woman. I could wish I was 20 years younger so that she and I could celebrate our 50th and 60th weddding anniversaries together, but I don't want to taint the miracle that we ever met at all by sullying it with any regrets. Instead, I will simply be thankful for every moment we have.

[z_k_g]

Wow- what an epiphany. I will have to discuss this with my daughter and see where I went wrong. Allowing her to be all americanized and all. Same with my sister-where did my folks go wrong?

W3,

It wasn't your fault.

1. Television
2. Television
3. Television
4. Hollywood

Got it?

Just my opinion of course!

Zulu

[z_k_g]

*lol* Yeah, there are plenty of AW who see you as an investment (if you're successful financially or have the potential to be).

AsphaltV,

If they saw us as an investment i would at least feel like i had some value!! 

No, they see us as a means to an end!  Drop and Insert whatever male fits the profile; you as an individual doesn't really matter!  Divorce you, get another, newer, model.  Sounds like the guy with his arm candy doesn't it!!

Did we create this dysfunctional atmosphere?  Was it feminism?  I don't have a clue.

There are some good AmW out there!  Just not enough to go around!

That's one man's opinion. 

Zulu

[william3rd]

W3,

It wasn't your fault.

1. Television
2. Television
3. Television
4. Hollywood

Got it?

Just my opinion of course!

Zulu

Good opinion- Television and ADVERTISING ruins everything.

[Bob_S]

1. Television
2. Television Public school
3. Television College (especially humanities courses)
4. Hollywood

FIFY
 

AmW enter into the relationship with an aura of entitlement, "I am the prize and you must do everything in your power to keep me around"

Except for the ones looking for their next dysfunctional codependent. 
If you're not an abusive, asocial, alcoholic, un/under-employed sociopath, you just aren't interesting enough to get their attention.
Fortunately, in the Far East, women still appreciate a stoic, hard-working, chivalrous, responsible guy.  But all this is preaching to the choir.

[Ray]

Hi Asphalt,

I was just curious about something you said.

You said your Filipina lady is divorced. Was she married to a Filipino national? How and where were they divorced, since there is virtually no legal divorce in the Philippines?

Thanks,

Ray

[robert angel]

Maybe we can get Andy Rooney from '60 Minute's TV Fame, to pipe in here! I just love his rants which typically start with 'Do you ever notice...__________________________________________?'

[Viking]

And, to be perfectly frank, I think that the feminist movement HAS had a large role in creating this problem.

It is not a problem for the girls, and it is not a problem for the bad guys. It is only a problem for the good guys. When women are more financially secure and independent I guess they are more attracted to exciting "bad boys" than to stable good guys.

[AsphaltVoyager]

Hi Asphalt,

I was just curious about something you said.

You said your Filipina lady is divorced. Was she married to a Filipino national? How and where were they divorced, since there is virtually no legal divorce in the Philippines?

Thanks,

Ray

Hi, Ray, well, actually it was an annulment. But, to me they're one and the same. It's been 1.5 years ago now. And yes, he was (is) Cebuano. His loss is certainly my gain.

[z_k_g]

If you're not an abusive, asocial, alcoholic, un/under-employed sociopath, you just aren't interesting enough to get their attention.

Agreed!!

[AsphaltVoyager]

It is not a problem for the girls, and it is not a problem for the bad guys. It is only a problem for the good guys. When women are more financially secure and independent I guess they are more attracted to exciting "bad boys" than to stable good guys.

You could be right about that, but you'd think that when it's matters of the heart we're talking about those women would know better than to trust one of the bad boys to take good care of it.

I think one more thing that greatly contributed to this situation is the decaying moral values in our country. Once sex sprang from the bedroom to the living room out of our TV sets and onto billboards along the highways, it was alllllll over but the cryin. Now we've got women who are actively seeking the title of cougar, as though that's really something to be proud of. 

[Ray]

Hi, Ray, well, actually it was an annulment. But, to me they're one and the same. It's been 1.5 years ago now. And yes, he was (is) Cebuano. His loss is certainly my gain.

Yes, for purposes of immigrant/fiancée visas, an annulment is as good as a divorce.

I don’t know if this applies in your case, but for anyone else out there contemplating marriage to a Filipina with a divorce/annulment, I STRONGLY recommend that you get CERTIFIED NSO copies of annulment documentation in the form of a CENONAR, before you get too deeply involved.

Tell her that you need NSO copies on security paper of any annulment, along with applicable court documents.

I know of too many guys who got all the way through the process, up to the visa interview in Manila, only to find out that their true love was still legally married.

Have you already visited her in the Philippines?

Ray

[AsphaltVoyager]

Thanks for that bit of information, Ray. It will help avoid a pitfall I don't need to deal with. No, we are going to meet in Bangkok at the end of October, then again in RP in April. To say that I can't wait is a gross understatement.  

Now.... what's a CENONAR and NSO? *DOH!*
*LOL*

[AsphaltVoyager]

Just finished talking with my sweetheart and she tells me that CENOMAR is "Certificate of No Marriage". The NSO is some kind of government office. She is evidently up to snuff with what she'll need. *Whew!* thank goodness. *LOL*

She still have an obligation to the school she teaches at through this year, however, and plans to honor it while completing her thesis so she can obtain her Masters prior to coming here. I really admire her work ethic as well as her .... well, ethics. Her commitment to her job and to me and our future together give me great confidence in our successful future.

Of course, it doesn't hurt a bit that she's not even a little bit hard to look at, either. *hee heee* 

[robert angel]

>>>What's a CENONAR? <<<

Isn't it that the natural well, spanning 60 meters in diameter and reaching a depth of 22 meters, used by the Mayans as a sacrificial pit for virgins in Chichen Itza, Yucatan Mexico? I vaguely remember almost jumping in there on a dare...

Those crafty Filipinos, recreating an existing tourist attraction!

[Ray]

The NSO, or National Statistics Office, is like a national repository of vital statistic data like birth, marriage, and death certificates.

The CENOMAR or Certificate Of No Marriage is a record check to see if an individual has been married and if the marriage has been annulled, or a death certificate entered for the spouse, essentially determining if the person is legally free to marry.

When a lady applies for a fiancée or spouse visa, the US Embassy in Manila often will order a CENOMAR from the NSO before approving a visa. For your case, or any other situation where the lady may possibly have been married, it would be wise to obtain the NSO documents well in advance of filing a petition. I would get original certified NSO copies of her birth, marriage, and annulment documents because those will likely be required by the US Embassy anyway down the line. Also, ask for a RECENT baptismal certificate if applicable.

A note on Philippine annulments. An annulment is very expensive and sometimes takes years to obtain through the court system. Most Filipinos don’t have the financial means to pursue a legal annulment, or even a legal separation, so they just sort of go their separate ways and make a new life with someone else.

A whole bunch of foreign men have been devastated when her visa was disapproved because the records showed that she was still legally married. That’s why anyone who meets up with a Filipina lady who says that she is divorced, has an annulment, or even widowed, should be very skeptical and ask for proper documentation. "Trust, but verify".

Is she living in Thailand now, or are you both just traveling there to meet?

Ray

[Howard]

Asphalt,

Yeah I've noticed it, but I have found that it is not exclusive to American women.  I see it just as clearly in American men.  Obvously, we are more concerned with the women since that is who we are trying to connect with, but don't kid yourself, American women are only the product of American men.  For every bad boy seeking feminist out there, there is a balding guy with a beer belly in his thirties looking for a 21 year old supermodel.

We, as a society, have shifted our focus from traditional values to physical beauty and material gain.  This is an American problem, not something that pertains exclusively to one gender or another.

I am the product of a single mother.  I know what a POS my biological father is.  I also know many good American women.  A few of them raised me

I have a 25 year old cousin who is very attractive, thin, athletic, intelligent, college educated, responsible, compassionate, etc...  She is everything anyone could ask for and she can't find a "good guy" relatively close to her age to settle down with to save her life.  She is human after all, but the fact that she can't find a dude worth marrying proves there is just as much wrong with American men as there is with our women.

Congrats on finding a keeper!  I wish you the best of luck in your journey

Keep the Faith!

H

[robert angel]

Hey Ray,

Do you think in the case where a Kano is filing a CR-1 visa to bring her to the USA, both never been married before their RP wedding--and they have all that documented--the trip, stay, wedding etc., she's got a good job over there as a nurse--no red flags--do you think that the guy should really go to the RP for the Manila interview 'just in case'?

I know that we'd hate to tell him not to sweat it and save a couple grand, then have it 'go south'--what do you think?

Probably not a simple 'cut and dry' question.....

Thanks,

Rob

[Ray]

Hey Ray,

Do you think in the case where a Kano is filing a CR-1 visa to bring her to the USA, both never been married before their RP wedding--and they have all that documented--the trip, stay, wedding etc., she's got a good job over there as a nurse--no red flags--do you think that the guy should really go to the RP for the Manila interview 'just in case'?

I know that we'd hate to tell him not to sweat it and save a couple grand, then have it 'go south'--what do you think?

Probably not a simple 'cut and dry' question.....

Thanks,

Rob

From my experience over the years, I don’t think it is necessary or even highly desirable in the vast majority of cases for the petitioner to be at the interview in Manila.

However, it does show support and commitment, and strengthens the evidence of a valid relationship IMO, so it definitely can’t hurt to be there.

In Manila, some interviewers would rather that the petitioner not be present while others welcome them as a participant. Some guys were actually allowed into the interview room but were instructed to sit there and be quiet while the lady was interviewed.

In my personal opinion, if a guy is strapped financially or has limited time off from work to make the interview, or to accompany her on the trip over to the USA, I think the vacation time would be much better spent to take at least a couple of weeks off when she arrives here. Picking her up at the airport and then leaving her to go back to work within the next few days is a bad idea. Be there for her 24/7 during the first 2-3 weeks after arrival if at all humanly possible!

Ray

[AsphaltVoyager]

Ray, it is our plan to meet in Bangkok, but she lives in Cebu now. Later, we'll meet again in Cebu. That's the plan, at least.

[AsphaltVoyager]

For every bad boy seeking feminist out there, there is a balding guy with a beer belly in his thirties looking for a 21 year old supermodel.

Balding?? In his THIRTIES?? *LOL* That is a pretty rare thing, Howard. Late 40s, 50s maybe, but 30s? Pretty unusual.

We, as a society, have shifted our focus from traditional values to physical beauty and material gain.  This is an American problem, not something that pertains exclusively to one gender or another.

True. Unfortunately.

I have a 25 year old cousin who is very attractive, thin, athletic, intelligent, college educated, responsible, compassionate, etc...  She is everything anyone could ask for and she can't find a "good guy" relatively close to her age to settle down with to save her life.  She is human after all, but the fact that she can't find a dude worth marrying proves there is just as much wrong with American men as there is with our women.

I am uncertain how you define "good guy", to be honest as well as whether her definition and yours are the same. What she might be looking for is someone who is totally hot as well as seeking to be in a committed relationship who has a decent job and education with a future ahead of him. Those things would, I suppose (since I'm not a woman) make him a catch. However, perhaps she is setting her sights too high as far as how he has to look, too. As I said before, "good guys" are hardly on most U. S. women's radar when it comes to who they want to date. The GOOD ones usually aren't that great looking. There are a few exceptions, of course. But, in general, a totally hot guy knows he can pick and choose for years before having to decide if he wants to settle on one woman. Until he begins reaching that age where he's not quite so hot any longer does he have to actually develop a decent personality or sensitivity for a woman's feelings and give her respect. So, if she wants to have her cake and eat it, too, then yeah... she's going to have a bit of a problem. I'm not saying that all the less good-looking guys are necessarily good, but her chances are going to be one heck of a lot higher that he will be.

[Jeff S]

You're demonstrating a clear knowledge of Gen X American women A/V, but that knowledge is next to useless once you hop on a plane and cross the international date line. It's a different world over there, and unfortunately for some of the younger guys here, the merciless training you've received here in both the media and real life spills over onto people like Howard's sister in-law.  Sorry but it's nearly impossible for me to grasp the concept of one person being out of another's league - especially when it relates to looks.

[Howard]

Balding?? In his THIRTIES?? *LOL* That is a pretty rare thing, Howard. Late 40s, 50s maybe, but 30s? Pretty unusual.

Yeah right, late thirties I was meaning to say... like early forties

I am uncertain how you define "good guy", to be honest as well as whether her definition and yours are the same. What she might be looking for is someone who is totally hot as well as seeking to be in a committed relationship who has a decent job and education with a future ahead of him. Those things would, I suppose (since I'm not a woman) make him a catch. However, perhaps she is setting her sights too high as far as how he has to look, too. As I said before, "good guys" are hardly on most U. S. women's radar when it comes to who they want to date. The GOOD ones usually aren't that great looking. There are a few exceptions, of course. But, in general, a totally hot guy knows he can pick and choose for years before having to decide if he wants to settle on one woman. Until he begins reaching that age where he's not quite so hot any longer does he have to actually develop a decent personality or sensitivity for a woman's feelings and give her respect. So, if she wants to have her cake and eat it, too, then yeah... she's going to have a bit of a problem. I'm not saying that all the less good-looking guys are necessarily good, but her chances are going to be one heck of a lot higher that he will be.

Good Point, but she certainly isn't superficial.  I don't think it's unreasonable if you take care of yourself that you expect the same in your partner, but point taken

Keep the Faith!

H

[Ray]

Balding?? In his THIRTIES?? *LOL* That is a pretty rare thing, Howard. Late 40s, 50s maybe, but 30s? Pretty unusual.

I don't know...

My barber once told me that if a guy is genetically pre-disposed to go bald, it will show before he hits 35. I guess he's the expert... LOL!

Ray

[jm21-2]

I used to think I was born "a generation too late," but not so much anymore. I've read a lot of short stories, novels, and essays written in the 1700's, 1800's, and early 1900's. The complaints about men, women, and marriage are always basically the same. Sure, advances in technology have made it so women are much more independent and it's a lot easier to have sex outside of marriage, but I don't think there's been a huge shift in human values. Just that the consequences for irresponsible behavior (such as having a child out of wedlock, or choosing a bad spouse) are much less now. But would you want to be poorer, less scientifically advanced, and face huge consequences for irresponsible decisions made when you're young?

The biggest difference I noticed was Asians tend to be much more fiscally conservative, which means they make decisions about things like marriage, moving out of their parent's house, and other big life decisions in different ways. But I think that's mostly an economic factor, not cultural. My GF said that in her hometown she would only earn about $1,000 per month. We saw signs for new developments with houses starting from $400,000. If you lived in a country where a decent newer house cost more than 30 years of your wages, you'd be thinking frugally too. You might just want to live with the parents and save a bit. Might think more about the financial situation of your spouse. I think it has a lot more to do with economic necessity than deeply rooted values.

[jm21-2]

One of my favorite quotes is from an essay published in 1918.

What has gone on in the United States during the past two generations is full of lessons and warnings for the rest of the world. The American housewife of an earlier day was famous for her unremitting diligence. She not only cooked, washed and ironed; she also made shift to master such more complex arts as spinning, baking and brewing. Her expertness, perhaps, never reached a high level, but at all events she made a gallant effort. But that was long, long ago, before the new enlightenment rescued her. Today, in her average incarnation, she is not only incompetent (alack, as I have argued, rather beyond her control); she is also filled with the notion that a conscientious discharge of her few remaining duties is, in some vague way, discreditable and degrading. To call her a good cook, I daresay, was never anything but flattery; the early American cuisine was probably a fearful thing, indeed. But today the flattery turns into a sort of libel, and she resents it, or, at all events, does not welcome it. I used to know an American literary man, educated on the Continent, who married a woman because she had exceptional gifts in this department. Years later, at one of her dinners, a friend of her husband's tried to please her by mentioning the fact, to which be had always been privy. But instead of being complimented, as a man might have been if told that his wife had married him because be was a good lawyer, or surgeon, or blacksmith, this unusual housekeeper, suffering a renaissance of usualness, denounced the guest as a liar, ordered him out of the house, and threatened to leave her husband. This disdain of offices that, after all, are necessary, and might as well be faced with some show of cheerfulness, takes on the character of a definite cult in the United States, and the stray woman who attends to them faithfully is laughed at as a drudge and a fool, just as she is apt to be dismissed as a "brood sow" (I quote literally, craving absolution for the phrase: a jury of men during the late war, on very thin patriotic grounds, jailed the author of it) if she favours her lord with viable issue. One result is the notorious villainousness of American cookery--a villainousness so painful to a cultured uvula that a French hack-driver, if his wife set its masterpieces before him, would brain her with his linoleum hat. To encounter a decent meal in an American home of the middle class, simple, sensibly chosen and competently cooked, becomes almost as startling as to meet a Y. M.C. A. secretary in a bordello, and a good deal rarer. Such a thing, in most of the large cities of the Republic, scarcely has any existence. If the average American husband wants a sound dinner he must go to a restaurant to get it, just as if he wants to refresh himself with the society of charming and well-behaved children, he has to go to an orphan asylum. Only the immigrant can take his case and invite his soul within his own house.

Hmmm...sound familiar? American women used to be great, but now American women can't keep a household, hate appearing feminine in any way, and so forth...compared to those amazing foreign women who can do it all and love it...but be warned, when they get to America they'll be just like American women in a few years!

[robert angel]

Re:

>>My barber once told me that if a guy is genetically pre-disposed to go bald, it will show before he hits 35. I guess he's the expert... LOL!<<

I see teens with hair getting thin and hair lines receding, no not bald, but clearly going in that direction. Myself, the writing was pretty much on the wall by age 25

[AsphaltVoyager]

One of my favorite quotes is from an essay published in 1918.
Hmmm...sound familiar? American women used to be great, but now American women can't keep a household, hate appearing feminine in any way, and so forth...compared to those amazing foreign women who can do it all and love it...but be warned, when they get to America they'll be just like American women in a few years!

Wow. *lol* That was quite a tale. but, I can guarantee you that the author never met my grandmother. She could make buttermilk biscuits so light that you had to put a kitchen towel over the plate they were on just so they wouldn't float off into space, and so delicious that it was a shame to put her homemade plum jam on them... but I did anyway. All her meals were scrumptious. But... she had been cooking since she was just tall enough to reach the kitchen table, being the eldest child. Canning and baking, too, she could set a fine table with the skill of her own hands.

[AsphaltVoyager]

Re:

>>My barber once told me that if a guy is genetically pre-disposed to go bald, it will show before he hits 35. I guess he's the expert... LOL!<<

I see teens with hair getting thin and hair lines receding, no not bald, but clearly going in that direction. Myself, the writing was pretty much on the wall by age 25

Don't feel bad. I had an uncle who wore the friar's ring by the time he was 21. (Cueball on top with a fringe around the sides.) Didn't stop him from having 3 girls with his first wife (Korean), though.

[robert angel]

Re:

>> Don't feel bad. I had an uncle who wore the friar's ring by the time he was 21. (Cueball on top with a fringe around the sides.) Didn't stop him from having 3 girls with his first wife (Korean), though<<

Doesn't surprise me--according to the Doctor's, the reason for classic hereditary male pattern baldness is excessive production of testosterone....

>>There are a number of reasons why men start to go bald, but if you are a man between the ages of about 20 to 45 and you start to lose scalp hair, then the chances are 95 per cent certain that you are experiencing male pattern baldness. Most men are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness. It is the effect of hormones on the hair follicle that produces male pattern baldness. Testosterone, a hormone that is present in high levels in males after puberty, is converted to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by an enzyme called 5-alpha reductase<<

[throwawaydad]

WooHoo!

FIRST POST!

Here's an example of how things happen (often).

When I was first married to an A/W, my income hovered around $150K a year.  I paid a price and worked my azz off, denying myself most fruits of my labor.  My ex-wife complained bitterly that I was becoming "emotionally unavailable".  Naturally pay no attention to the nice home, nice car and two vacations every year.  And I'M emotionally unavailable.

A sudden turn of fortune (or misfortune) and my income plummets, and I'm just a working stiff, laboring Third Shift (Midnights), then playing Mr. Mom during the day while my ex-wife goes to work.  Now the paradigm has shifted, and I have a new problem:

Now I'M the classic underachiever.

Fast forward 10 years...now I'm around $250K / year...although to look at me or my hooptie, you'd never know it.  But regardless, I'm BACK, and this time, the little head WILL NOT tell the big head what to do.

My kids tell me my ex-wife has had a few dates (and that's fine), but no man wants her.  She's still a beautiful woman, so what's the deal here?  American Men are basically on a marriage strike.  WTF get married when you can lose half your stuff (or more) just because some woman decides that she's "unhappy"?  I can't prove this, but here's probably what happened with my ex-wife.

1.  She finds some guy she's attracted to and the dating starts.

2.  It doesn't take long and my ex-wife starts the same old sh1t up again.

3.  Guys who today, are MUCH more sophisticated than I was back then, recognize that they're walking into a buzzsaw and dump her FIRST.

A/W ARE finding it harder and harder every day to find a suitable mate.  But that's not MY fault.  Women CAN be troublesome, but few more so than A/W.  A/W don't know what they THEMSELVES want.

Look at many folks' favorite actress:

Sandra Bullock

Every guy's dream...smart / beautiful / rich...just about the "perfect woman".

Her choice of mates?
Jesse James

Someone (anyone) here care to admit they're surprised when her husband admitted to enjoying some side action with some tat-adorned wh0re, banging her harder than a screen door in a hurricane?

Anyone here shocked by that?

Then the media gushes over her situation...poor, poor Sandra.  Every A/W wrings their hands, and decries the miserable treatment of "Sandra".  Well Ms. Bullock got what she wanted and it bit her in the azz.

Japan is struggling with the double-whammy.  Rapidly increasing elderly population combined with young people delaying (or deferring) parenthood.  Not good.

Not good for A/W as well.  More and more men delaying (or deferring) marriage.  Or in the case of many folks here, looking outside the US for their spouse.

Get ready for the blow-back.  If you're seen with an "obvious" foreigner...get ready for not-so-discreet disapproval from A/W.  The smart ones realize that they ARE gradually (or in some cases not-so-gradually) being replaced.

Plus don't discount the possibility of our female-centric society in America making it even harder, and throw up even MORE hoops to leap through in your pursuit for a better quality spouse.

And when that happens the smoke screen will look like this:

"Legislation proposed to protect innocent MOB from abuse" (at the hands of evil bad American Men).

[michaelb]

Plus don't discount the possibility of our female-centric society in America making it even harder, and throw up even MORE hoops to leap through in your pursuit for a better quality spouse.

And when that happens the smoke screen will look like this:

"Legislation proposed to protect innocent MOB from abuse" (at the hands of evil bad American Men).

Hello? They already have that legislation, it's called IMBRA.

[throwawaydad]

Hello? They already have that legislation, it's called IMBRA.

Hey MichaelB:

Thanks for the note.  I'm familiar with IMBRA...I just believe that next "solution" will be even more onerous.

[z_k_g]

Fast forward 10 years...now I'm around $250K / year...although to look at me or my hooptie, you'd never know it.  But regardless, I'm BACK, and this time, the little head WILL NOT tell the big head what to do.

Dlook,

Man, you must be my twin or living my life for me! 

Your story is mine!

My ex is basically HOT a real babe at 43 and looks 23!  But no sane man will want her after they get to know her!  Typical AmW!  I think we were married to the same person!!

I could not have written that post better myself!!!

There has to be better out there and I will have better or just stay single and die happy!!

Thanks for the post bro!

Zulu

[Bob_S]

I just believe that next "solution" will be even more onerous.

They can't forbid biracial marriages.  The SCOTUS saw to that, thank goodness (or we'd all be in trouble!).

Though if they forbid fiance visas, you'll just have to marry 'em there, then bring your spouse over on a family visa.  Not a problem.  Plenty of us have gone that route!

[throwawaydad]

Hey 'ya, Bob.

Thanks for the comment.  My first choice is Japan, and the second is the P.I.  But here's my concern:

I live in a suburb of Chicago (Monday thru Friday), and commute to a weekend home in Galena Illinois most weekends.  The winters in the Midwest can get pretty grim, and I would want a prospective spouse to spend a couple of weeks in a Chicago winter, so as to mitigate the risk of her being "sucker-punched" and finding herself in an absolutely miserable situation.  Life will be very nice, indeed, but that comes with a cost.

If she gets here, and cannot abide it one of two things will happen:

1.  She will leave to visit Home, and not return.  This leaves me married and having to prove desertion.

2.  She will become a 731-day spouse and after her 2 years-and-a-day are up file for divorce.  This is even WORSE, because now, there's an asset battle.

Either way, I'm now a two-time loser.  I have no desire to divorce again...I'm a tough guy, but it's already taken me THIS long to heal the broken heart situation.  What's the old saying?

"Men marry Women hoping they'll never change."
"Women marry Men hoping they can change them."

EVERYONE ends up disappointed.

[robert angel]

Re:

>>If she gets here, and cannot abide it one of two things will happen:

1.  She will leave to visit Home, and not return.  This leaves me married and having to prove desertion.

2.  She will become a 731-day spouse and after her 2 years-and-a-day are up file for divorce.  This is even WORSE, because now, there's an asset battle.

Either way, I'm now a two-time loser.  I have no desire to divorce again...I'm a tough guy, but it's already taken me THIS long to heal the broken heart situation.  What's the old saying?

"Men marry Women hoping they'll never change."
"Women marry Men hoping they can change them."

EVERYONE ends up disappointed.<<

Chicago has one of the higher densities of Filipinos, many of whom would live no where else.

I should think if you really know the woman and there's true love there, the weather will be a side issue. From what I've seen, being in isolation from others and/or with a  husband who is domineering with out justification to be that way, these are much more common issues that break up Fil-Am marriages than 'the weather'. But you have to communicate the realities of how windy, cold and down right brutal mid western winters can be and explain that 'you're in it together' with a whole lot of other people. Life goes on. You need to be able to really feel that you're right for each other before taking that big step--after making the big decision.

I am pretty cynical a lot of times. I am romantic, but do not pretend that anything is forever. I have been through a bitter divorce, with children and substantial assets in the mix. I am far from wealthy and could ill afford to get 'burned' a second time. All the same, I remarried and to a Filipino for the second time at that.

Sounds like maybe you have felt burned before and that you might even be more cynical than me. Even your name itself "doesntlookgood" sort of indicates a pervasive pessimism. Sometimes our negative thoughts have a nasty way of becoming self fulfilling prophecies.

The bottom line is: Nothing ventured, nothing gained....

[Ray]

The winters in the Midwest can get pretty grim, and I would want a prospective spouse to spend a couple of weeks in a Chicago winter, so as to mitigate the risk of her being "sucker-punched" and finding herself in an absolutely miserable situation. 

You know Doesnt, I have heard that fear expressed so many times here that I couldn't begin to count.

But I have NEVER heard of a Filipina dumping her new husband because of the weather in her new hometown!

Filipinos are very adaptable. There are large Filipino populations in Alaska, Canada, and numerous other cold climates and they aren't complaining about the cold. In fact I've heard that the bitter cold feels refreshing after all of that hot, humid weather they had to endure back home.

My wife’s Filipina neighbor whom she grew up with is very happily married to an American in northern Wisconsin where she thinks working in a cheese processing plant is paradise.

Keeping warm in a cold climate is much easier than keeping cool in a hot, tropical one.

I would either stop worrying so much about anything and everything that “might” go wrong, or drop this whole idea of marriage and enjoy your single life where there is no fear of green card sharks, gold diggers, or divorce lawyers.

Ray

[Jeff S]

doesntlookgood...

Japan gets plenty of cold and snow, so that shouldn't be an issue, and most Japanese enjoy the city life - my wife and daughter both love Chicago (and New York and Seattle and....)

Let me get this straight: Your two big fears are that 1) she won't like it here and head home, and 2) she's only marrying your for a green card and bolt the day it arrives?

The answer is obvious to me. Be the kind of husband she'll never even consider leaving.

Anyway welcome aboard.

[robert angel]

DLG,

The way I see it is if you're going to get married, chances of it lasting are a lot better with the 'average' Filipina than they are with most American women. Yea, it's going to cost you more up front, but you'll probably get a couple awesome vacations out of it.

Being married isn't for everyone. Sometimes I still miss the ability to make or not make decisions all on my own, without wondering how it will effect my wife.

But either your going to do it or not. Half baked measures won't cut it and work in finding a marriage partner, so unless you're looking for endless flirtations on line and web cam shows, you need to decide one way or another.

Plus the cost is usually 'front loaded' in that chances are she'll want to work and contribute to household income. Plus she may even make your house look like a home, cook, clean and provide other 'benefits' as well. If worse comes to worse, she'll be able to provide for herself. Although they don't always seem to, most Filipinas have pretty strong, yet quiet sense of pride and really don't want your money if God forbid, you break up.

I am not saying you should prepare a contract stipulating that all these things be provided, but I do think we should discuss what each of us is looking to provide in a relationship, asking about religion, sex, drugs, rock and roll, money, snoring, what makes you angry most and a whole bunch of other things.

I tried, unsuccessfully, to explain and even demonstrate situations, behaviors and habits of mine that I knew sooner or later, my prospective wife would have to deal with. You should wait until the timing is right, of course.

All too often before marriage, we're on our very best behavior, then we marry and find out all the other crap. No matter how hard you try, the actual adjustment to each other and to her living in a new country will change things somewhat. But if you've done your homework, hopefully you'll pick a gal who's stable, true and has 'sticktuitiveness'.

[Henry]

The real difference is this, and many of you will get your panties in a bunch over this, but this certainly wont be the first time it has happened.

Whether we like it or not, "financial stability" is the most important thing women world wide look for in a mate. Other factors come into play, but that is one of the "must haves".

American women (and western women in general) are fully empowered to earn their own money. Therefore our societies have changed the gender roles around because women arent so reliant upon men to support them.

This frees women up to do things other than being good wives. In the interim between school and marriage, AWs are free to experiment with goodness knows how many different men in their lives.

Stable men are boring and mostly worthless. They dont need stable men anyway. And western men treat women like goddesses by default. So it is not exciting for them to be with a man who isnt dangerous or inherently evil.

Since their focus is no longer on becoming a wife and mother, men are no longer important. Men are now the enemy because it wasnt the nature of the world and biology that kept women down. It was men. Now everywhere you look in the media, men are vilified and put down. Men are contemptible. Many women treat men as such. Complete indoctrination.

Also western men put women on a pedestal, whereas in the rest of the world, women are just people, and not angels. American women in particular are showered with so much attention from men from the ages of 14 to around 45 that they come to see men as "easy". All the attention inflates their egos, gives them narcissistic complexes, and destroys their ability to empathize with others (a narcissistic trait).

So we have 25 year old narcissists who are completely superficial, wrapped up in money, indoctrinated by the media, who always believe they could have someone better, and are never satisfied with good men.

Whereas women from other countries - in which  arent hit on as often, havent been completely brainwashed by the US media (just yet), dont make money on par with men, and come from societies where men are the head of the family and not some robot who pays bills ordered by the court -  are more ready to become wives.

[Bob_S]

My first choice is Japan, and the second is the P.I.  But here's my concern:
I live in a suburb of Chicago (Monday thru Friday), and commute to a weekend home in Galena Illinois most weekends.  The winters in the Midwest can get pretty grim, and I would want a prospective spouse to spend a couple of weeks in a Chicago winter, so as to mitigate the risk of her being "sucker-punched" and finding herself in an absolutely miserable situation.  Life will be very nice, indeed, but that comes with a cost.

Sapporo is at the same latitude as Milwaukee, and in fact Hokkaido is Japan's equivalent of Wisconsin, their dairy land.  So anyone from northern Japan will be well acclimated to northern Midwest weather.  As long as you got a deep tub where she can take a long hot soak at the end of the day, she'll be happy.

China and Korea also both have notoriously nasty deep freezes in the winter.  So northern Chinese or S. Korean girls would be familiar with what you experience.  Filipinas may not be so familiar with that kind of winter, but as others have noted, they prove to be highly adaptable.  Which leads us to...

1.  She will leave to visit Home, and not return.  This leaves me married and having to prove desertion.
2.  She will become a 731-day spouse and after her 2 years-and-a-day are up file for divorce.  This is even WORSE, because now, there's an asset battle.

Most likely, if an Asian woman bolts, it's not because she can't stand the weather.  Asian women are patient and endure a lot in their normal life in their home country.  She will leave you if you turn out not to be the kind of husband she was expecting you to be.
And what is she expecting?  She is expecting a foreign husband to be different, and hopefully better, than the kind of husband she can find back in her home country.  Marrying a foreign man and moving to his country involves a significant risk and effort for the woman.  Why would she?  Why should she?  A woman with any sense will have a constant pro-con/cost-benefit table running in her mind, and you want to be sure to steadily end up in her pro/benefit column to make up for all the con/costs of her having to make a home in an alien land.  If you end up being no better than what she can find by marrying one of her own, expect her to dump you.

But that goes back to finding your match.  What one woman considers a pro, another woman will consider a con.  Some women want their man home by 6 for dinner and to spend weekends at home, even if that means you live modestly.  Other women are happy to have workaholic husbands who are away most of the time so they can go about their own hobbies.  Fortunately, in my experience, Japanese women don't tend to be bipolar about this like AmW (wanting you to work hard to bring home the bacon but also wanting you to magically extend the day so you can still spend hours at home entertaining them).  They understand that one must be sacrificed to some degree to get the other.  But having grown up with oto-san who worked 20-hour days 6 days a week, they are hoping for something better with a foreign hubby.  Their fantasy image of us is of faithful husbands that are attentive and affectionate.

So, in the courtship process, you need to discuss what you have to offer and what you expect in a spouse (in polite round-about ways if you can).

[throwawaydad]

I had to think awhile before I got back on this horse.

Hey Robert:

I understand what you say about my screen name...I trade the markets every day and sometimes that's my favorite saying...as in this "doesntlookgood".

I fully understand the inherent risks in any undertaking...I just like to understand, and mitigate those risks.  I also understand that there are NO guarantees in this life with the exception that at some point we ALL leave this world.  I spent almost 20 YEARS plying my trade as a pilot, only to watch it implode due to a medical situation that would NEVER affect anyone else in a different career.

What I AM trying to do however, is to leverage all my attributes, and make a careful, but heartfelt choice.  All my life I've worked hard, did my best to treat everyone with honesty, courtesy and dignity and live a "decent" life.  I'm not "God's Gift To Women", but I am a good man.

I never struck or berated my ex-wife, even after our divorce.  As my children would visit, one of my constants was the statement:

"If you're in trouble with your Mother, you're in trouble with Me."

I am flawed like anyone else, and I understand that personal self-actualization is a never ending process.  One part of that process is looking in the mirror and confronting your own fears.

Like passes quickly, and as the years pile up I am more cautious than ever.  As Robert said:

Nothing ventured...nothing gained.

"Truer" words have been seldom spoken, and that should be the masthead of this site.

Henry brings up a salient point, and sadly it's been "Open Season" on Men in America for more than a few years.  That's fine, just like when I trade, I ALWAYS have a "Plan B".  I mentioned that anti-male bias to a friend a few months ago while we were watching TV.  A commercial came on for Ortho Weed-B-Gone and I had him watch the interaction between the "husband" and "wife".  He was startled and admitted that he had never noticed before.  Later was a commercial for Dannon Yogurt.  The woman is speaking on the phone, and the man goes to the refrigerator.  The woman says:

"Babe, what are you doing?"

As though he has no right whatsoever to go into the refrigerator.

I don't want to prattle on about this topic, but I would suggest that you look up the book "The Myth Of Male Power" by Warren Farrell.  He was on the Board Of Directors of the National Organization For Women.  My punching bag days are over.

Thank You All very much.  I am grateful for your kind advice.


Best regards,

DLG