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Latin International Dating Forums => Latin -> General discussion => Topic started by: Hector_Lavoe on April 15, 2018, 07:22:01 PM

Title: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 15, 2018, 07:22:01 PM
Couldn't come up with a better title. I don't tell many people about P.L. or my long term goal of settling down with/marrying a woman from Latin America.

The few times I have done so I hear all kinds of negative stuff about "green card" marriages and guys getting used, etc.

Yet, the writing is so clearly on the wall as to why this road is a good option. The millennial generation in the U.S.A. is having less sex than any generation in 60 years!

I generally avoid Online Dating in the U.S. but I did recently see a 33 year old woman with this on her profile, "Looking for the fairy tale and I won't settle." A 33 year old in many part of Latin America is over the hill.

Had a conversation with a young woman in the USA recently who said all the information I was getting was biased. The guys on P.L. are just sugarcoating their relationships and not telling the bad parts. Lots of guys are getting cheated on and they don't even know it.

I know the best thing to do is to ingore this kind of thinking...still wondering what kind of negative or disparging remarks have you guys heard over the years? Did your own family and friends tell warn you were setting yourself up to fail with a foreign relationship/marriage? 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 15, 2018, 09:32:00 PM
Couldn't come up with a better title. I don't tell many people about P.L. or my long term goal of settling down with/marrying a woman from Latin America.

The few times I have done so I hear all kinds of negative stuff about "green card" marriages and guys getting used, etc.

Yet, the writing is so clearly on the wall as to why this road is a good option. The millennial generation in the U.S.A. is having less sex than any generation in 60 years!

I generally avoid Online Dating in the U.S. but I did recently see a 33 year old woman with this on her profile, "Looking for the fairy tale and I won't settle." A 33 year old in many part of Latin America is over the hill.

Had a conversation with a young woman in the USA recently who said all the information I was getting was biased. The guys on P.L. are just sugarcoating their relationships and not telling the bad parts. Lots of guys are getting cheated on and they don't even know it.

I know the best thing to do is to ingore this kind of thinking...still wondering what kind of negative or disparging remarks have you guys heard over the years? Did your own family and friends tell warn you were setting yourself up to fail with a foreign relationship/marriage?

Only people who tried to discourage me were a couple of lawyers. As you sort of said, you need to have a thick skin.. Dr. Seuss said (or like others, is reputed to have said), it well:

"Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"

Going on 17 years together and 13 married to a beautiful petite woman who not only is much younger than me, but also looks much younger than her actual age, I am amazed that in all that time, we only heard two people  (one lady we 'overheard' at Disney World, the other in thrift shop) say, mumble some brief, snippy crap.

We're both fortunate that our families and the few people we consider close friends, are all cool about us--always have been. But a lot of families aren't and you just have to distance yourself from such malcontents there, as well as in the workplace and social circles.

We find it best to avoid going to social events with lots of mixed nationality people, as there's typically some yenta who wants to know how old we are, how are sex life is, gossipy stuff they'd roll on

Having a tight, "Me and you against the world - - it's about US" mindset helps long term.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mudd on April 15, 2018, 09:51:36 PM
to some point, its true, you do hear mostly only the " good parts" of most marriages or relationships to foreign born latin women, because of a few reasons.
 men dont want anybody to know their marriage was a sham and the man was stupid and didnt know anything about the girls past or her real personality and the guy got burned.


it happens a lot, but most dont want to talk about it.
many men do some stupid things once they get off the plane, and lose all common sense and confuse affection and sex, with love and commitment.
i know of two men recently  who are involved with two girls from  colombia, both have no clue what they are doing and are so desperate  or lonely that they picked clearly not the best women. but hay, its like talking to a wall. soon or later, the fantasy ends and you see the real person and intentions, but by then, its too late


the relationships that last,  are the ones where they knew the girl and family for some time, because by then all the skeletons  and her past are out of the closet. you know mostly what your getting.


so take your time, you rush it, disaster.


you make good decisions, you beat the skeptics

Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 16, 2018, 05:23:29 AM
and forget a long distance relation ship.Worst thing.

Relación  de lejos es una relación de pendejos (or feliz para cuatro)..as he Colombians say....

Which means you pretty well gotta be living in her country.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 16, 2018, 07:41:53 AM
to some point, its true, you do hear mostly only the " good parts" of most marriages or relationships to foreign born latin women

Yet we've also had guys on P.L. share the challenges they've gone through including a few whose marriages ended. So it isn't always peaches and cream.


so take your time, you rush it, disaster.

you make good decisions, you beat the skeptics

Yep, good point. Good to see you end the post on a positive note Mudd.


Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 16, 2018, 09:02:56 AM
Good thread, with great additional angles from Mudd, Elex and Hector. We sometimes piss all over each other here, busting each other's chops, but really, each of us adds to the mix. Diversity is good.

Mudd has probably saved some guy's from serious harm with his posts, guys who might otherwise go south thinking it's Latin American Disney world, with hot Chicas as the attractions.

Elex, amongst other things, has illustrated how fleeting and flaky a lot of women there are--how often alterior motives are in play, unbeknownst to the greenhorn gringos. Told guys about great, off the beaten path places worth seeing too.

I plead guilty to 'painting a perfect picture', but in reality, we've had a few hand grenades in our marriage, along with a lot of kisses.

It's inevitable really. I'm no picnic, but for a guy who's been single for a while and as is too common in this modern world, has made a lot of 'friends' including females online over the years, that can and DID come back to bite me.

While the death dagger to my marriage would probably be getting caught having sex with other women, drawing a line on even actively chatting other women is a factor I still get warned on. In real life, I do look and flirt, but there's a line there too.

Intimacy, as in SEX isn't just considered a marital obligation, it's expected on demand from both sides. And while I get primal, she expects, wants that, but with some TLC, romance--the schmaltzy stuff too.

If she senses I'm giving it away elsewhere and her 'needs' aren't being met, the toast will burn. She showers morning and evening and is deathly afraid of STDs. Her blood line's mostly Spanish (Spain ruled the area for almost 400 years) and she's young and as sensuous as any other woman I've been with.

Substance abuse could push the marital red line too. I talk about us going to Colorado or other places where pot's legal and her trying it, but it might as well be heroin or coke to her--poison.

She's happy I'm not a drinker and doesn't take remotely well to 'recreational drugs'

Again, I'm no picnic to be married to, (for SURE) but I am lucky as hell that for the other behaviors, habits, moods, my son's antics etc, she's pretty cool, but that MOST importantly, she gets over the smaller stuff quickly too, not holding it over my head. Not that she forgets...

Case in point--while it's been over ten years since I did it, when I got caught on line telling some hot babe I'd try and send her some Victoria Secret lingerie, I'll never live that down! She copied the chat records! When we go into VS even today, I'd BETTER be ready to buy her something!

Long distance relationships? Yeah, wouldn't be nice if it was true that "Absence makes the heart grow fonder?"....

Sorry guys, but head's up---especially when you've got a gal with a great sex drive, it's more often:,

"Absence makes the heart GO WANDER"

Roses need a lot of water and have sharp thorns too...A lot of women  have to have regular, real life attention, ego boosting and yes, sex---and one way or another, are gonna get it!

And TIME? Yes, if you're looking for a 'keeper' - - a long term, live in lover, you'd damn well take time, time and more time, you ought to be a lover and a wary detective, looking for those 'red flags'.

And the hotter she is, the easier it is to
NOT see, or to forgive crap in really pretty chicks---stuff you might run away from in a babe who's a 7 or 8 on the 'ten scale'.

They're ALL gonna be 6's and 7's before long. Don't bite off more than you can chew up front, or be prepared to choke later on.

Like that great old song says: "If you want to be happy the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife" - - - sh!t, the maintenance costs alone might kill you...

Last but not least, keeping HER faithful, maybe making the relationship last longer overall, works better if you stay in HER country.

It's just me, but while I tell myself 'Nothing lasts forever' - - you can do things to improve your odds.

But like I said, in my in 'our' case, infidelity is the death star. We have had a house in her country for a few years now, but I haven't been in it, haven't even visited. I send her home solo and she comes back better, more appreciative and recharged.

I KNOW that just going to the mall or into the city over there, that there are sooo many hot young babes (women of All ages and status period) who'd 'jump my bones' short time, wanting some sweet vanilla dick for a change. So me keeping my pants up would be a challenge! None of those five dollar, full body 'happy ending' massage parlors either!

Gotta be careful what you wish for!!!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 16, 2018, 10:20:19 AM

Yet we've also had guys on P.L. share the challenges they've gone through including a few whose marriages ended. So it isn't always peaches and cream.



Worst thing you can do is to start comparing Colombia to some idealistic dream or judging it in a vacuum like Mudd and Expat like to do. Because bad marriages happen everywhere....especially in the US and are much more costly to get out of.


Just compare what you have available to you in the USA to what you have available to you in Colombia. In my late 30's it was a close call but Colombia came out a little ahead....in my 40's Colombia pulled ahead quite a bit.....by the time I hit my 50's.....Colombia is a no brainer.


One thing you need to remember in Colombia is.....marriage is not in and of it self an intrinsic expression of love and devotion....marriage has a purpose.....it is to form a family or it will be something else that neither of you may like.....could be a way for you to have sex with a woman while you live and work in the states.....or it could turn out to be a way for her to move up economically.


If you do not want children and to form a  family with a Colombian woman....the path to having is a successful life long relationship is perilous just as much or more as having a career minded gringa at your side.


If you don't want to form a family....I think a better option is to do whatever you can to be location independent and just live in Colombia and have as many girlfriends as you like.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 16, 2018, 11:02:14 AM
Hector, let me help you put this into perspective. I just read where Art Bell, the former host of 'Coast-to-Coast AM' passed away. One of the notable things that was in his obituary was that he was married to his Philippina wife for 10 years and made a note that she was 22 (he was 62) when they got married! When I first got into going to Colombia, a good friend on a now closed website, told me what was going to be involved if I choose to have a woman from there as a spouse. I was going to make countless trips, spend a lot of money, have my heart broken many times. Have some wild sex rides, but if I persevere, I would find somebody suitable. He was also very open about the chicas having their barrio boys on the side while you are in the US. Nothing was sugar-coated and everything he said was like he handed me a movie script! Right down to their personal hygiene habits. Here is the website. I even have a few articles written on it as well but even though the information is outdated, it is still relevant! https://web.archive.org/web/20160620154746/http://colombiahelp.com:80/
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mudd on April 16, 2018, 12:31:03 PM
some good advice here from all above.
 what it comes down to is...  what do you really want?....... fun, a girlfriend for short time, companionship, serious girlfriend that leads someplace, marriage, kids?   all these have different types of women as you can imagine.


from girls who only look for fun, money,vacations. visa, clothes, cell phones, apartment, get to the US or other country,, parties, what you can buy them, offer them ect.  too women who are looking for a stable relationship, marriage and  children.


problem is,  you have to be honest and smart about what your want and are looking for.  many women from colombia have told me over the years,  they see gringos as " stupid men with money"  :o


doesnt matter what country your in, US, Colombia, be smart, take your time.



Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 16, 2018, 02:35:14 PM

 many women from colombia have told me over the years,  they see gringos as " stupid men with money"  :o


Did you get offended when these women told you this ?

Does seem like an odd thing to tell a gringo and very weird that you have heard it from many women jajaja

I don’t even know how something like that is even posible

I would guess that gringos make up less than one half a percent of the population in Medellín.....so how is it possible to even know multiple women that have been with other gringos and how they are with their money

Where in the hell do you meet your women
That would be the best advice you could give so newbies would know where they shouldn’t go

At some point you are going to have to realize that you are swimming in a pool that other guys peeed in and maybe even taken a dump LOL



Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mudd on April 16, 2018, 05:25:31 PM
Did you get offended when these women told you this ?

Does seem like an odd thing to tell a gringo and very weird that you have heard it from many women jajaja

I don’t even know how something like that is even posible

I would guess that gringos make up less than one half a percent of the population in Medellín.....so how is it possible to even know multiple women that have been with other gringos and how they are with their money

Where in the hell do you meet your women
That would be the best advice you could give so newbies would know where they shouldn’t go

At some point you are going to have to realize that you are swimming in a pool that other guys peeed in and maybe even taken a dump LOL


lol im sure calipro you heard it many times form girls in cali, prob  a few in medlelin also. you not a prize, but at least i can say what many colombians think of the average gringo, as im sure you had such a good reputation in cali and had to leave for medellin lol
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 16, 2018, 06:06:57 PM
Did you get offended when these women told you this ?

Does seem like an odd thing to tell a gringo and very weird that you have heard it from many women jajaja

I don’t even know how something like that is even posible

I would guess that gringos make up less than one half a percent of the population in Medellín.....so how is it possible to even know multiple women that have been with other gringos and how they are with their money

Where in the hell do you meet your women
That would be the best advice you could give so newbies would know where they shouldn’t go

At some point you are going to have to realize that you are swimming in a pool that other guys peeed in and maybe even taken a dump LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GokBgQ1LgDIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GokBgQ1LgDI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GokBgQ1LgDI)
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 16, 2018, 06:32:03 PM

lol im sure calipro you heard it many times form girls in cali, prob  a few in medlelin also. you not a prize, but at least i can say what many colombians think of the average gringo, as im sure you had such a good reputation in cali and had to leave for medellin lol

I didn’t have to leave Cali
And I don’t think I’ve dated a chick that has dated another gringo since I left Cali because I haven’t been to a marriage agency en 8 or 9 years

That is why it was so surprising to hear you talk about women in Medellín that know other gringos well

What are you guys doing stealing them from each other’s  Facebook page
Seriously how does something like that happen
I mean what are the odds?
There has to be a connection between you and this other guys or it is a statistical improbably that you would know paisas that know other gringos well enough to know their spending habits

Do you guys all hang out at the same club or what
Inquiring minds want to know jajaja
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 16, 2018, 07:09:46 PM

Worst thing you can do is to start comparing Colombia to some idealistic dream or judging it in a vacuum like Mudd and Expat like to do. Because bad marriages happen everywhere....especially in the US and are much more costly to get out of.


Just compare what you have available to you in the USA to what you have available to you in Colombia. In my late 30's it was a close call but Colombia came out a little ahead....in my 40's Colombia pulled ahead quite a bit.....by the time I hit my 50's.....Colombia is a no brainer.


One thing you need to remember in Colombia is.....marriage is not in and of it self an intrinsic expression of love and devotion....marriage has a purpose.....it is to form a family or it will be something else that neither of you may like.....could be a way for you to have sex with a woman while you live and work in the states.....or it could turn out to be a way for her to move up economically.


If you do not want children and to form a  family with a Colombian woman....the path to having is a successful life long relationship is perilous just as much or more as having a career minded gringa at your side.


If you don't want to form a family....I think a better option is to do whatever you can to be location independent and just live in Colombia and have as many girlfriends as you like.
This sums it up perfectly. 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 16, 2018, 07:48:06 PM
I think if you stay in one place long enough, get to know the culture and get in tight with some women,  especially OLDER women, you'll get some insights as to how they 'think'.

No, we'll never fully figure women out--I don't think that's meant to be - - besides, they can change like the weather anyway.

But in my travels, getting to know them fairly well without romance in the picture and letting these older women educate me and  set me up with younger women, I was given a valuable 'education' in terms of what different women were generally like. That means what they liked, what I could expect and what the woman expected in return. It generally followed along lines of the status, 'class' of the woman  their family, their level of education, income, and a few other things.

I was offered meet ups with gorgeous girls from humble, even impoverished backgrounds, who in exchange for a couple sets of clothes, a new bathing suit and being able to stay at a fancy resort and 'live it up' - - would likely bang you till they were bow legged. Candy girls.

Then there were some you had to try harder to get in bed, some higher class babes that took a bit of an 'interview' with their family before you might get time alone with them.

Then there were the well educated, professionally employed women, medical Dr.s, lawyers, executives and the like, who after me getting their number, handled their own 'negotiations'.Those took effort.  Hard to find that online, generally speaking, as they need to want us and don't really 'need us'.

But in the process, between the insights the older women, who in their trust leveled with me on, and from my experiences, I did get some good Intel. Took a few trips and came back alone too.

But cultivating non romantic friendships and getting  personal introductions, can be golden, as you can meet women not online, women not with agencies who are gems out in the field.

Hell, I was introduced to my wife by a married lady from Vermont, USA. We struck up a friendship and she tried to match me with her sister. That didn't work out and! she said:, "Hey, I have a sweet, pretty friend I think you might like"

THAT was an understatement!!

But I can recall older women telling me how certain girls viewed Yankees as basically 'boom boom' toys, meal tickets and just as guys to be used before moving on. As indicated, I also gleaned that there were women a bit higher up the ladder in terms of values, self respect and wanting to marry a foreigner that they'd fallen in love with, money not being the primary factor. That's the rung on the ladder I grabbed and I'm glad for it.

Too often we focus 99%,on the hot babes, without mixing, living and learning amongst the general population. Trying to make ongoing friendships on the periphery can not only up your game, but pay off in finding a diamond out there. Don't burn your bridges....

But I can see how Mudd could have gotten some real 'inside' - - as in 'true' info, the good poop, on how a lot of women in the area REALLY see gringos as being good for.

Besides, a lot of older women (not the best sort) are jealous and more than happy to dish dirt on the younger babes.

Hell, besides---what he's saying has been said by gringos here a 1000 times plus already!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 17, 2018, 01:05:21 AM


Hell, I was introduced to my wife by a married lady from Vermont, USA. We struck up a friendship and she tried to match me with her sister. That didn't work out and! she said:, "Hey, I have a sweet, pretty friend I think you might like"

THAT was an understatement!!




And all this time I thought you had met and courted your wife overseas.


At any rate....it helps to explain why you don't seem to understand just how hard it would be to randomly meet two Colombian women in Medellin that actually knew a gringo personally....let alone....many Colombian women that apparently knew enough gringos to form a generalization that "gringos are stupid men with money".


And my question to Mudd is where or how did he meet these Colombian women that already knew and had experience with other gringos?


Seems like a fare question to me. Otherwise I'll have to chalk up his story (about what Colombianas think of gringos) as another one of his tall tales. jajaja
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 17, 2018, 04:48:06 AM

And all this time I thought you had met and courted your wife overseas.


At any rate....it helps to explain why you don't seem to understand just how hard it would be to randomly meet two Colombian women in Medellin that actually knew a gringo personally....let alone....many Colombian women that apparently knew enough gringos to form a generalization that "gringos are stupid men with money".


And my question to Mudd is where or how did he meet these Colombian women that already knew and had experience with other gringos?


Seems like a fare question to me. Otherwise I'll have to chalk up his story (about what Colombianas think of gringos) as another one of his tall tales. jajaja

The  'older' woman was a Filipina married to a 'gringo' (over there, more likely called a Kano') but living in Vermont for a long time with her husband--both super nice people who 'clued me in' on some of the finer points regarding pursuing different types of women over there. Sonia's long dead now, bless her soul. Her much younger sister, as well as my wife, were in the Philippines.

While I don't claim to be expert on Colombia--far from it, in these days, I can't help but think that that there are plenty of women of the opinion that gringos are fools, loaded with money, from which they are easily parted.


Also that as in many places, the truth can be fleeting at best, and if you're not THERE, and are only making promises online and via phone, she's gonna keep her options open, and those open options might include her legs.

And in regards to the chances of two women knowing the same gringo, in contrast, the Philippines has 7000 Islands and about a 100 million people. Yet you could be into one chick and a 2 hours jet ride away, another babe could get the news, via what we called the 'bamboo telegraph' namely the internet. It's happened to me more than once.

And just as we can do to them, they may have another woman approach you, enticing you and if you 'bite'--it gets reported. Busted.

Then it was the Cupid site and a couple others as well (Blossoms)  that had male--female chat rooms, where people's fidelity was 'called out' - but it was amazing even then, how word 'got around' outside of the open chat rooms, which were wild as hell. And now, there's a lot more going on with more modern social apps, friends of friends, ad nauseum. Just like guys, women like to brag and show their trophies...

Again, not saying I know that much, can't substantiate that it happens in Colombia,  but wouldn't be surprised....

Especially if you are a real player who's developed a reputation.

The phrase: "Your reputation precedes you" has been around a long time. And if they don't know about you, or you don't know about her's--given time and effort, it becomes known to an extent. Regardless, sooner or later, 'It all comes out in the wash'.

I would check her friends, social apps, her workplace, where she grew up, where she lives presently and more. You don't need a private detective for 'all that'--you just need time, effort and smarts. And even a poor girl can have those skills, along with other suprisingly sophisticated, wiley ways in her repertoire. It's not just from her getting your cell phone while you shower anymore.

If you think they're all dumb and clueless, you might end up feeling like that yourself.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 17, 2018, 08:37:47 AM

And all this time I thought you had met and courted your wife overseas.


At any rate....it helps to explain why you don't seem to understand just how hard it would be to randomly meet two Colombian women in Medellin that actually knew a gringo personally....let alone....many Colombian women that apparently knew enough gringos to form a generalization that "gringos are stupid men with money".


And my question to Mudd is where or how did he meet these Colombian women that already knew and had experience with other gringos?


Seems like a fare question to me. Otherwise I'll have to chalk up his story (about what Colombianas think of gringos) as another one of his tall tales. jajaja


LOOOOOLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cali, I get the sense you're being sarcastic here. There are girls in Medellin that know probably dozens of gringos personally. They actually make a valiant effort to know as many as they possibly can.   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 17, 2018, 10:59:29 AM


While I don't claim to be expert on Colombia--far from it, in these days, I can't help but think that that there are plenty of women of the opinion that gringos are fools, loaded with money, from which they are easily parted.




Well from my anecdotal experiences in Colombia....it is not at all common for women to think of gringos as stupid fools.


But if you were in the habit of cultivating relationships with Colombianas that were also prone to engaging with gringos that were "stupid fools with money"......then.... well I guess that is what you would think is normal. 


I'll just say that Mudd is the poster boy (of what not to do in Colombia) if you are looking for a serious relationship and leave it at that. LOL!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 17, 2018, 11:25:36 AM

LOOOOOLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cali, I get the sense you're being sarcastic here. There are girls in Medellin that know probably dozens of gringos personally. They actually make a valiant effort to know as many as they possibly can.   ;D ;D ;D ;D


Sure there are....they are called prepagos.


But listening to what prepagos think of gringos and extrapolating it to the general population of Colombia is just weird and highly inaccurate.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 17, 2018, 12:20:50 PM

Sure there are....they are called prepagos.


But listening to what prepagos think of gringos and extrapolating it to the general population of Colombia is just weird and highly inaccurate.


Agreed. Not my experience either.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 17, 2018, 07:07:16 PM
Bunk, balderdash, malarkey and hooey....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: bcc_1_2 on April 17, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Women are using men plenty inside the united states. Leaving the usa doesnt take away the risk it just allows you to fish in a better pond.

Skepticism can be heathly. The problem is with international dating there is a lot of ignorance. In the usa international anything will be met with ignorance.

I can say just by living my life it has been an education for many people. It's led other guys to look to latinas.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 18, 2018, 05:57:45 AM
bcc_1_2 said:
Quote
Women are using men plenty inside the united states. Leaving the usa doesnt take away the risk it just allows you to fish in a better pond.

Skepticism can be heathly. The problem is with international dating there is a lot of ignorance. In the usa international anything will be met with ignorance.

I can say just by living my life it has been an education for many people. It's led other guys to look to latinas.
Indeed. My friend did an unscientific survey by comparing international marriages to domestic ones. It seemed the international marriages had a tendency to last longer, (I think he filtered out the fraud based on the length of marriage). But if you look at it, both parties have a lot of 'skin' in the game, (maybe that's not a good metaphor! :)) ) I never in my life would have considered a Latina as a prospective spouse. But when the ex left me about 6 years ago, there I was. Like I previously stated, I've had my heart broken many times, and spent countless amounts of money but I have enjoyed every minute of it and wouldn't take any of it back!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 18, 2018, 06:00:59 AM
Women are using men plenty inside the united states. Leaving the usa doesnt take away the risk it just allows you to fish in a better pond.

Skepticism can be heathly. The problem is with international dating there is a lot of ignorance. In the usa international anything will be met with ignorance.

I can say just by living my life it has been an education for many people. It's led other guys to look to latinas.

Hopefully people learn from experience,  but many of us don't. Many repeat the same things, insanely expecting different results. Many are blinded by beauty.

The facts are is that while there are lots of theories and suggestions, people practice their own way regardless. Besides, there's no 'sure fire' handbook, not here, not anywhere. Even if there was, a lot of people wouldn't follow it anyhow.

And most relationships, here or there, fail. Is it any wonder?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Jhengsman on April 18, 2018, 07:01:49 AM
You will never deflect or convince the skeptics. At best they think that you are a mercenary abandoning your community for a poor third world working girl with one client. At worst you are a loser who can't compete with the alpha males at home, so they laugh secretly and expect to watch  when she leaves right after immigration status is secured.


If the community's, which in fact you are leaving in a way, feelings are more important to you than your own wants and needs  then there is no need to waste the effort trying to convince them because you can't. You can spend time trying to change perceptions if  you are in the business which the community will call mail order brides. But most of us are not earning or supplementing our income through YouTube hits or the websites of old. If you do go forward, then yes as a part of our class you will bear the brunt of jokes as people in our situation are portrayed badly in popular media and in some cases even by immediate family.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 18, 2018, 07:21:32 AM
Jhengsman said:
Quote
You will never deflect or convince the skeptics. At best they think that you are a mercenary abandoning your community for a poor third world working girl with one client. At worst you are a loser who can't compete with the alpha males at home, so they laugh secretly and expect to watch  when she leaves right after immigration status is secured.
If the community's, which in fact you are leaving in a way, feelings are more important to you than your own wants and needs  then there is no need to waste the effort trying to convince them because you can't. You can spend time trying to change perceptions if  you are in the business which the community will call mail order brides. But most of us are not earning or supplementing our income through YouTube hits or the websites of old. If you do go forward, then yes as a part of our class you will bear the brunt of jokes as people in our situation are portrayed badly in popular media and in some cases even by immediate family.
Excellent! Well stated!

Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 18, 2018, 07:22:59 AM

Appreciate all the replies to this thread.

If you do go forward, then yes as a part of our class you will bear the brunt of jokes as people in our situation are portrayed badly in popular media and in some cases even by immediate family.


I've heard other PL posters mention they got flack from family members who were skeptical or down right hostile to the idea of them marrying a lady from overseas.


I would be curious to hear if anyone wants to elaborate on the type of comments they heard and what those same relatives/family members might think years later when they see the marriage/relationship working out.






Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 18, 2018, 08:25:54 AM
Very, very few people come forward with non positive personal stories here. Jason from Tennessee, with his Peruvian wife, who exploded, changing very unexpectedly after they married, after she came here and they built a rather nice house, had family come and move in-THAT was a notable exception a couple years back.

Much of that's mysteriously been deleted from the archives here but there was a lot to learn about personalities and legal scenarios here from Jason and he shared that nightmarish experience in detail.

Guy's who's relationships, both long term non marriage, as well as actual marriages, failed, whether slow, like my first to a foreigner or train wreck 'crash and burns' rarely say a thing. Typically, they disappear from this site totally.

Seen guys getting flack from people, including family on the woman's side--from her country, as well as on HIS side here. Seen it before and naturally in such cases, after the marriage. People rarely change their stripes. There's one going on right now, but you won't hear about it here.

Sometimes, her family will get greedy and continously expect unneccessary, excessive support. That requires discipline and distance, with careful handling.

All the above is why I've said so many times that you need to try and not worry about what others think, except in very select cases, then only from the counsel of those few, if any, who's knowledge and opinion you truly value.

I've been very, very fortunate that in public, at our jobs, ESPECIALLY with our families, that despite a very wide age difference, with me being bald headed and my beautiful, petite wife looking about half her actual age (she can still wear the clothes she wore when I met her 16 years ago) that negative comments have been next to none and the two  that I recall, came from total strangers. One old biddy at Disneyworld, another old spinster at a Goodwill Thriftshop.


I consulted two lawyers before marrying her and they advised me against marrying her--giving me horrific odds of keeping her past green card day--but I won't count them as people, LOL.

Even my verbally snipey half brother's never said a thing. He probably likes my wife as a person more than he likes me, LOL. Hell, maybe that extends to ALL my family. No one was suprised when for years, my wife was always ready to bathe, feed and care for in any way for my incapacitated,  terminally ill Mother. That's her nature.

It's important to emphasize that it's YOU and HER --husband AND wife FIRST--as  friends, lovers and confidants, and that as necessary, that you'll distance yourself from friends, even family, especially if their behavior threatens to undermine your relationship.

And while it can happen slowly or quickly, it's still poison.

We're already a pack of dudes with unusual traits, willing to go off the beaten path. Independents Sometimes rogues. But sometimes you and her need to adopt a 'Feck em all--ignore their negativity--IT'S about US--not THEM.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 18, 2018, 08:51:11 AM
Appreciate all the replies to this thread.


I've heard other PL posters mention they got flack from family members who were skeptical or down right hostile to the idea of them marrying a lady from overseas.


I would be curious to hear if anyone wants to elaborate on the type of comments they heard and what those same relatives/family members might think years later when they see the marriage/relationship working out.
My parents have grown to like my wife. She takes good care of both of them
.. Also, now that she's working that helps too... Overall the undermining has always come more from guys hitting on my wife " do you really love your husband?" and from other latinas " he's too cheap/old...you should leave him and you can do better...."
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Researcher on April 18, 2018, 08:58:18 AM
Appreciate all the replies to this thread.


I've heard other PL posters mention they got flack from family members who were skeptical or down right hostile to the idea of them marrying a lady from overseas.


I would be curious to hear if anyone wants to elaborate on the type of comments they heard and what those same relatives/family members might think years later when they see the marriage/relationship working out.

My Colombiana and I have been married for more than 10 years. I remember hearing all the skeptics and took it as a warning. The truth is I agree with those here who say it depends on what you want. It is important to know that before you start or at least before you get serious with a woman.

If you just want a girlfriend/companion/sex kitten, I totally agree with moving to the country of choice and just staying single. If you want a serious relationship for a family or whatever reason then you want to do some vetting before you make a serious commitment.

It is not impossible to find a woman who will stick with you but there are pitfalls. In the end there is risk involved. When I was out and about and meeting women, I looked for chemistry. That is the key or it was for me. If I am going to be spending a huge amount of time with a woman as well as be financially tied to them, the chemistry between us needed to be right. You might find that right off or it may take a while but it will be worth it.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 18, 2018, 09:42:58 AM
My Colombiana and I have been married for more than 10 years. I remember hearing all the skeptics and took it as a warning. The truth is I agree with those here who say it depends on what you want. It is important to know that before you start or at least before you get serious with a woman.

If you just want a girlfriend/companion/sex kitten, I totally agree with moving to the country of choice and just staying single. If you want a serious relationship for a family or whatever reason then you want to do some vetting before you make a serious commitment.



Well stated and this is always the point I try to convey to guys when they begin to consider foreign dating. There's some hotties out there who might not (probably won't) make the best wives. Best advice I can give any man getting started is get that "dime piece dummy" complex out of your system. Date a few super hotties, spend some money on them, have some great sex and a lot of fun. Whatever....life is short...enjoy yourself. After a while you'll begin to look at beauty just like the locals do. At this point, when I'm in Rio or Barranquilla or D.F. or Montreal or whatever, and I'm associating with exceptionally beautiful women, I make assumptions about their personalities that turn me off. I'VE DEFINITELY BEEN PROVEN WRONG!!!! But usually they're simply not pleasant people to be around for one reason or another (Not so much with girls in Barranquilla...Costeñas tend to be very friendly and humble). I think every man looking for a wife in another country should date a few 10's before settling down. It usually gives them a tremendous amount of appreciation for personality and virtue. Beauty should be of very little circumstance after you've sewn your royal oats and you're actually looking for wife material. There are some AWESOME women all over Latin America and Asia, but they usually aren't the most gorgeous women you'll find wherever you are. Still very attractive....much more so than you'll find in the states. But not the beauty queens I see guys chasing after, then they wonder what went wrong when they finally grow some balls and start saying "no." Beauty inherently comes with a sense of entitlement. Entitlement has no place in a successful relationship.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: JWR on April 18, 2018, 11:44:08 AM
When a guy gets involved with an international girl, the natural tendency is to start blabbing about what is going on in his life with all the people around him.  Family, close friends, co workers, and acquaintances.  Most Americans live very boring lives, and that gives all of these people something to talk about.  Since most of them are in unsatisfying relationships themselves, they love to kick dirt around.

A guy should learn to keep his mouth shut, and pull into his own new world in the beginning.  Put up the fortress walls, and only let a very, very few people inside that are trusted.

I'm one of those guys that learned the hard way.  I got married on the front deck of the Yacht Club to my beautiful, and young wife. 16 year age gap. From day one, my friends at the yacht club, and their fat mouthy wives started to gossip, and I was slowly shunned.  The wives don't want you around their husbands, because you are a "bad influence." Guys wives will go out of their way to skillfully undermine your relationship with their husbands.  On the other hand even the guys will say things, and ask questions about your wife that are completely inappropriate that they would never ask of a normal relationship with an American women. 

Years ago one of my best friends of over 40 years had a wife that hated me for marrying a young foreign girl.  Over time I noticed a change in my friend's attitude toward me, and I just couldn't figure it out.  Some time after our long friendship finally ended, I found out his wife was telling him in private that my wife was  visiting her crying, and complaining to her that I was beating her.  My wife actually disliked her, and would never talk with her in the 1st place.  Now of course my friend should have come to me directly when he heard these stories and he's an ass for not.  But the influence is often slow insidious and calculated.  The funny thing also is that anybody who knew my Colombian wife would laugh at the thought of me beating her.  I would have ended up a dead man believe me.  She was not a weak flower.

So be careful, because people will surprise you with how petty they can be.

During the 1st year, a guy has all his own challenges dealing with the girl's adjustment in the US, and doesn't need the added complications of having his social network, and even sometimes his reputation at work jeopardized.

Many times guys will even plan a party as soon as the girl arrives exposing her to all sorts of negativity, comments, and people that she may not even be able to understand very well because of language differences.  That is not a kind thing to do to your fiance/ wife.  Why does a guy do this anyway?  Is he trying to pad his ego showing off his pretty girl like a new fancy car?  Showing off your young pretty wife is just a quick ride to a reputation as a loser.

I now have a friend on my dock at the marina who has a young pretty Filipino fiance.  He's blabbed all about her all over the dock, and even showed videos, and photos to some middle aged American women friends.  She's not even here in the US yet, and he's already ranked just above pedophile status.  It's ridiculous.

Better to take things very slowly with the friends and family.  When eventually you end up out in social situations, be ready to stand between your girl and stupidity, and if things get awkward, you take her out of the situation immediately.  Expect people to act stupid, and be surprised when they are nice.

It's easy to just say "don't worry what people say or think"  My approach is don't even put yourself in the situation where people have the opportunity to meddle in your life from the beginning.  This is a very private relationship, so keep it private.

After a guy has been married to a girl for a couple years, most people will just see the relationship as normal and will stop judging and gossiping.   Just keep your life private for a good long while, and things will be far less complicated, and also easier for the girl to adjust.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 18, 2018, 11:47:39 AM
When a guy gets involved with an international girl, the natural tendency is to start blabbing about what is going on in his life with all the people around him.  Family, close friends, co workers, and acquaintances.  Most Americans live very boring lives, and that gives all of these people something to talk about.  Since most of them are in unsatisfying relationships themselves, they love to kick dirt around.

A guy should learn to keep his mouth shut, and pull into his own new world in the beginning.  Put up the fortress walls, and only let a very, very few people inside that are trusted.

I'm one of those guys that learned the hard way.  I got married on the front deck of the Yacht Club to my beautiful, and young wife. 16 year age gap. From day one, my friends at the yacht club, and their fat mouthy wives started to gossip, and I was slowly shunned.  The wives don't want you around their husbands, because you are a "bad influence." Guys wives will go out of their way to skillfully undermine your relationship with their husbands.  On the other hand even the guys will say things, and ask questions about your wife that are completely inappropriate that they would never ask of a normal relationship with an American women. 

Years ago one of my best friends of over 40 years had a wife that hated me for marrying a young foreign girl.  Over time I noticed a change in my friend's attitude toward me, and I just couldn't figure it out.  Some time after our long friendship finally ended, I found out his wife was telling him in private that my wife was  visiting her crying, and complaining to her that I was beating her.  My wife actually disliked her, and would never talk with her in the 1st place.  Now of course my friend should have come to me directly when he heard these stories and he's an ass for not.  But the influence is often slow insidious and calculated.  The funny thing also is that anybody who knew my Colombian wife would laugh at the thought of me beating her.  I would have ended up a dead man believe me.  She was not a weak flower.

So be careful, because people will surprise you with how petty they can be.

During the 1st year, a guy has all his own challenges dealing with the girl's adjustment in the US, and doesn't need the added complications of having his social network, and even sometimes his reputation at work jeopardized.

Many times guys will even plan a party as soon as the girl arrives exposing her to all sorts of negativity, comments, and people that she may not even be able to understand very well because of language differences.  That is not a kind thing to do to your fiance/ wife.  Why does a guy do this anyway?  Is he trying to pad his ego showing off his pretty girl like a new fancy car?  Showing off your young pretty wife is just a quick ride to a reputation as a loser.

I now have a friend on my dock at the marina who has a young pretty Filipino fiance.  He's blabbed all about her all over the dock, and even showed videos, and photos to some middle aged American women friends.  She's not even here in the US yet, and he's already ranked just above pedophile status.  It's ridiculous.

Better to take things very slowly with the friends and family.  When eventually you end up out in social situations, be ready to stand between your girl and stupidity, and if things get awkward, you take her out of the situation immediately.  Expect people to act stupid, and be surprised when they are nice.

It's easy to just say "don't worry what people say or think"  My approach is don't even put yourself in the situation where people have the opportunity to meddle in your life from the beginning.  This is a very private relationship, so keep it private.

After a guy has been married to a girl for a couple years, most people will just see the relationship as normal will stop judging and gossiping.   Just keep your life private for a good long while, and things will be far less complicated, and also easier for the girl to adjust.


Excellent post. Great insight.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: ralphmalph on April 18, 2018, 02:31:17 PM
Finally a thread where we have a balanced discussion. Great input.
The great thing about being retired, one no longer has to endure snide input or questions from coworkers about one's choice.

And as for experiencing dating some 10s while one is sowing 'wild oats' in one's youth. I never made it halfway up the RVF 1 to 10 scale ladder to begin with. So, my suffering apoxia is out of the question now.  ;)
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 18, 2018, 02:33:38 PM
Sorry--I forgot JWR--a guy who's been as good a bud on line, on the side and over the phone with me as you might chance to meet here. He's as real and welcome as rain, during what was once a drought.

He AND Jason are two of the few here who'll tell you the whole truth, based on ugly, unvarnished REAL experience. Most everyone else hides and or runs from here when it has hit the fan.

From the git go, and my wife was on to it just as fast as me, we have kept our bow lines TIGHT. Very few people are let into our circle of TWO--allowed to know our confidences.

A couple quotes from The Godfather come to mind, as Don Corelone said:

"Never let anyone outside the family know what you're thinking!!" (As the Don slaps Sonny boy)

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" 

ESPECIALLY amongst Filipinas and fellow women co workers, my wife KNOWS who the gossips are--who the snakes are, what they do. In personal and professional correspondence, she KILLS them with kindness. No, she's not viewed as some dumb, 'goody two shoes' Polly Anna either. She's been told so by them, by her friends and co workers, who've marveled at how she stays above and out of the fray, yet effectively communicates.

We are our own family of TWO, even though we love each other's extended family and visit, stay in touch via phone with them....

BUT we count VERY few friends as 'close' intimate friends. We have lots of 'friendly acquaintances'. A wise person (Ex GF) once told me:

"Never have more close friends than you have fingers on one hand"--Very excellent advice!!!

Get more than that, and I can almost guarantee you an eventual conspiracy, with rumors and gossip eventually being spread and then accepted widely as actually being the TRUTH. It has to be, if everyone knows, right?

My wife and I have fingers left over.

No, we're not 'rocks'--not isolated islands. We get plenty of social event invites, my wife takes, makes phone calls--we just send a gift, maybe a card usually.

Unlike me, she can even handle facebook (farcebook--book for the wannabe rich and blameless, pictures of every fancy meal, new outfit, vacation visit--ad nauseum) with poise and grace.

But again, we're just very 'selective' and discreet about the who, where and when, and especially about what we say, how we present ourselves to others.

I wouldn't DREAM of doing fb, my knee jerks enough here--I'd be launching nastygrams day and night...

But our 'business' stays OUR business. There's dirt I created, my 'dirty dirt'--our skeletons, that my wife could take to her family or my family--or to her two close girlfriends (who give her the dirt on THEIR husbands) But she doesn't. And neither do I. And not having that 'outlet' is tough on a woman.

And when on that rare occasion somebody outside says something stupid--and she's heard:

"How old is your husband?"

"How often do you have sex?"

She changes the subject, subtly blows them off--handles it with grace and humor--even leaving the bitches feeling embarrassed for themselves sometimes!

But, regarding too many people in general:

The sad, simple truth is some people can't accept another person being DIFFERENT than themselves.

And that most CERTAINLY includes, someone else, anyone else, being HAPPIER than them.

Or having a younger and/or exceptionally pretty/handsome spouse than they think is 'acceptable', who God forbid, doesn't speak English w/o an accent. 

It's just not 'normal' enough, it's unacceptable to them, probably indicative to them that 'the couple' have some sort of problem, something the gripers know better about.

Besides, it goes across relationship and into racial and economic lines. Hate and misery is an equal opportunity mental predicament.

Too many people are just fecking miserable, back stabbing feckers. Seems they've got to have someone they can look down at, to piss, diss and hammer on.

They've gotta have someone, some situation, reason, ANYthing to make them feel better, superior about themselves, their own lot in life.

If they weren't miserable, they'd be miserable. It's like fuel. If they didn't have some hot rock in their gut, some bone of contention, whether verbally expressed or not, or else they'd feel incomplete.

No wonder such people tend to look older than their age, out of shape, like heavy smokers and drinkers who stayed out in the sun too long, their brains as tough and useless as their thick, weathered skins.

Pity them really, but can't take it too personal--I'll count my blessings that my marriage has been quite immune to that perverse phenomenon.

Like the songs go:  "You've GOT  to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative, latch on to the affirmative--and don't mess with Mr. In-Between" ---LOVE, LOVE that old Johnny Mercer standard!!!

AND: "Oh, I  used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused" --> Elvis Costello (The Angels wanna wear My) "Red Shoes"

'Crab mentality' is what we call it those kind of person's mindsets. Then, we count our blessings and hope that they get, that they feel better some day. And we move on, smelling our own roses....

Geeze, gotta look in the mirror--no KISS my wife, as having said all that, especially after an unbelievably SH!TTY Day at work today, I feel MUCH better for my raging vent, LOL....

Sorta the the effect I get sometimes from writing, same one that I get after sweating off 4 or 5 pounds, after my wife's dragged me thru an hour of non stop, position changing Yoga at 100 degrees. CLEAR.

WTF if nobody reads it! Now it's dinner time and she beckons from the kitchen. Took her 90 minutes to cook from scratch !!

95% of the time, we eat the same, home cooked food, but tonight--Asian style fish and vegies w/ soup for her--center cut pork chops she nonetheless pounded with a metal hammer, tenderizing for 15 minutes, then breaded, w/ mashed potatoes and spinach for me and it smells GOOD! ---Vent, vent, baby.... ;)
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 18, 2018, 05:04:18 PM
I must have moved to a parallel universe. I will say that I had my mother, (who passed away last year at the age of 92) ask me why am I chasing after foreign women. When I told her that I was trying to find somebody who sees me, (and not a shrink!), and feel they can live with me. That we have a lot of effort into the relationship. After several of my 'amigas' asked about my mother while I was visiting her, she gave me her OK with 1 caveat: "She better not have red hair!", (my ex of 25 years had red hair). I think there was some great advice dispensed here. As stated, 'sow the wild oats' with your fantasies and like I tell myself all the time, "Don't let the little head do all the thinkin' for the big head!" But above all, be true to yourself! If you feel that something 'aint' right, punt right then and there. No sense in making 2 people miserable the rest of their lives. Ask questions, try to understand the culture, so you can grasp things easier. I'm learning Spanish not only to understand what might be said about me, but I expect my prospective mate to learn English so equal is equal. But above all, remember that you can not buy love!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 18, 2018, 07:15:04 PM
When a guy gets involved with an international girl, the natural tendency is to start blabbing about what is going on in his life with all the people around him.  Family, close friends, co workers, and acquaintances.  Most Americans live very boring lives, and that gives all of these people something to talk about.  Since most of them are in unsatisfying relationships themselves, they love to kick dirt around.

A guy should learn to keep his mouth shut, and pull into his own new world in the beginning.  Put up the fortress walls, and only let a very, very few people inside that are trusted.

I'm one of those guys that learned the hard way.  I got married on the front deck of the Yacht Club to my beautiful, and young wife. 16 year age gap. From day one, my friends at the yacht club, and their fat mouthy wives started to gossip, and I was slowly shunned.  The wives don't want you around their husbands, because you are a "bad influence." Guys wives will go out of their way to skillfully undermine your relationship with their husbands.  On the other hand even the guys will say things, and ask questions about your wife that are completely inappropriate that they would never ask of a normal relationship with an American women. 

Years ago one of my best friends of over 40 years had a wife that hated me for marrying a young foreign girl.  Over time I noticed a change in my friend's attitude toward me, and I just couldn't figure it out.  Some time after our long friendship finally ended, I found out his wife was telling him in private that my wife was  visiting her crying, and complaining to her that I was beating her.  My wife actually disliked her, and would never talk with her in the 1st place.  Now of course my friend should have come to me directly when he heard these stories and he's an ass for not.  But the influence is often slow insidious and calculated.  The funny thing also is that anybody who knew my Colombian wife would laugh at the thought of me beating her.  I would have ended up a dead man believe me.  She was not a weak flower.

So be careful, because people will surprise you with how petty they can be.

During the 1st year, a guy has all his own challenges dealing with the girl's adjustment in the US, and doesn't need the added complications of having his social network, and even sometimes his reputation at work jeopardized.

Many times guys will even plan a party as soon as the girl arrives exposing her to all sorts of negativity, comments, and people that she may not even be able to understand very well because of language differences.  That is not a kind thing to do to your fiance/ wife.  Why does a guy do this anyway?  Is he trying to pad his ego showing off his pretty girl like a new fancy car?  Showing off your young pretty wife is just a quick ride to a reputation as a loser.

I now have a friend on my dock at the marina who has a young pretty Filipino fiance.  He's blabbed all about her all over the dock, and even showed videos, and photos to some middle aged American women friends.  She's not even here in the US yet, and he's already ranked just above pedophile status.  It's ridiculous.

Better to take things very slowly with the friends and family.  When eventually you end up out in social situations, be ready to stand between your girl and stupidity, and if things get awkward, you take her out of the situation immediately.  Expect people to act stupid, and be surprised when they are nice.

It's easy to just say "don't worry what people say or think"  My approach is don't even put yourself in the situation where people have the opportunity to meddle in your life from the beginning.  This is a very private relationship, so keep it private.

After a guy has been married to a girl for a couple years, most people will just see the relationship as normal and will stop judging and gossiping.   Just keep your life private for a good long while, and things will be far less complicated, and also easier for the girl to adjust.
Amen. Stay off social media as well. And anybody who asks how you met can f--- off, its none of their business...
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: buencamino3 on April 18, 2018, 07:24:13 PM
Hector I am glad to see you recognize that Colombian women over 33 or so are over the hill. I have said it before but I will repeat: I think at your age you will be happiest with and make the best connection with a girl in the 24 to 26 range. They're about finished up with the disco weekends and starting to think about settling down and having a kid. That's been my observation. Good luck.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 18, 2018, 07:54:21 PM


I generally avoid Online Dating in the U.S. but I did recently see a 33 year old woman with this on her profile, "Looking for the fairy tale and I won't settle." A 33 year old in many part of Latin America is over the hill.




American women are delusional.


On one dating site I looked at .....there was a profile question that asked the women if they wanted children.


I was absolutely shocked at how many women in their late 30's and early 40's answered the question with "Someday" ....and I'm thinking to myself.... if it ain't today ..... it ain't ever gonna happen.


It is actually kind of sad to see women that have been sold on the idea that they can have it all..... marriage, family and career and most will never make it.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 18, 2018, 08:42:01 PM
Hector I am glad to see you recognize that Colombian women over 33 or so are over the hill. I have said it before but I will repeat: I think at your age you will be happiest with and make the best connection with a girl in the 24 to 26 range. They're about finished up with the disco weekends and starting to think about settling down and having a kid. That's been my observation. Good luck.

BC: Thanks for the input and for putting yourself in my shoes for a moment. Appreciate it...especially given your long-term residency in Colombia.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 18, 2018, 08:48:43 PM
Sorry--I forgot JWR--a guy who's been as good a bud on line, on the side and over the phone with me as you might chance to meet here. He's as real and welcome as rain, during what was once a drought.

Yes, regarding divorce, etc. only JWR and JasonA come to mind. Actually, Calipro has also mentioned his divorce from a Colombiana.

But we've also had a few regular members mention when the marriage/relationship hit a challenging period (AlabamaBoy, Benjio).

Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 18, 2018, 08:56:04 PM
Re: JWR's post: EPIC and superb post!!

The great thing about being retired, one no longer has to endure snide input or questions from coworkers about one's choice.

Yes, I've posted about this before. Co-workers can be nosy. You spend so much time together, etc. I have been very careful not to reveal my true intentions as to why I am traveling to coworkers. None of their business and people gossip, etc. So best to keep it to a minimum.

I've actually wrestled internally with how much to reveal to coworkers or not regarding my travels in Latin America. Conclusion based on this thread and the reasons I stated above: Keeping it close to the vest. 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 18, 2018, 09:11:46 PM

Beauty inherently comes with a sense of entitlement. Entitlement has no place in a successful relationship.

Exactly. No doubt there are some physically beautiful women with equally gracious/attractive personalities. However, when you are hot you are often handed everything from the get go in life and have men constantly fawning over your needs/desires....who the heck needs to develop a personality? You can always find someone or some guy who will bend to your wishes!

The not so hot ladies are not privy to such appeasement. So they actually develop a personality and learn to navigate the world in a different manner. 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 18, 2018, 09:28:29 PM
Exactly. No doubt there are some physically beautiful women with equally gracious/attractive personalities. However, when you are hot you are often handed everything from the get go in life and have men constantly fawning over your needs/desires....who the heck needs to develop a personality? You can always find someone or some guy who will bend to your wishes!

The not so hot ladies are not privy to such appeasement. So they actually develop a personality and learn to navigate the world in a different manner.


And bring em to the USA like that and times it ten times worse--as a 7 or 8 on a 10 scale gets commonly rated in the 10 range here and if their head's not on REAL good, trouble's quite possible--especially in areas without a lot of similar Latinas already here. Iowas's different than S. Florida or S. California, Texas, NYC...


Again--be careful what you wish for! She's probably gonna be a real looker here compared to there anyhow, and if she's not already 'full of herself' already, all the better...


Hell, given time--all our rateability --our physical attraction on both sides, declines.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 19, 2018, 04:41:58 AM
Robert angel said:
Quote
Hell, given time--all our rateability --our physical attraction on both sides, declines.
Yes, gravity is proof that God does have a sense of humor! :))
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 19, 2018, 08:44:20 AM
When we're IN these lady's countries, there's just SO MANY hot looking women, that our 'scale' our evaluation system, goes awry. Women we'd get into a car wreck gawking at if we saw them while driving the street in the USA, suddenly don't seem to merit a second glance there.

Combine that with some guy's tendancy to not mind characteristics, red flags really, in the 'TENS' - - the impossibly gorgeous women, red flags that'd distance them from the LOVELY and much more likely lower maintainance 7 and 8s, and it's no wonder we get into trouble.

There's just SO much 'eye,' arm' candy there, to the point we can lose control of objectivity.

Even wearing my wrap around Ray-Ban  I still get a sore neck and thank God, my wife's forgiving, as long as I look, but don't touch!!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Researcher on April 19, 2018, 10:08:39 AM

I remember being one of those "skeptics" at one time. I always thought the only reason a foreign woman would marry a gringo was to get a green card. Then I went to Mexico to work. I could tell I had more of the ladies interested in me there than in the US. I just chalked it up to them wanting a ride to the US. After spending alot of time there, I saw in some cases this was obvious but not in all cases. Over time my skepticism  was "softened". I realized there was opportunity to find gold if a man took the time to look.

From then on I did not pay much attention to the skeptics and found it was best to not even discuss the topic with them. I did not even tell my family and closest friends all of what was going on. It was none of their bees wax anyway.
I think that is the best approach. None of them had experienced what I had experienced so why bother explaining? It would do no good because their opinions would not likely change from merely talking to them. My opinion did not change until I saw things thru my own biased peepers. Why should I expect any different from them?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 19, 2018, 11:30:51 AM
I remember being one of those "skeptics" at one time. I always thought the only reason a foreign woman would marry a gringo was to get a green card. Then I went to Mexico to work. I could tell I had more of the ladies interested in me there than in the US. I just chalked it up to them wanting a ride to the US. After spending alot of time there, I saw in some cases this was obvious but not in all cases. Over time my skepticism  was "softened". I realized there was opportunity to find gold if a man took the time to look.

From then on I did not pay much attention to the skeptics and found it was best to not even discuss the topic with them. I did not even tell my family and closest friends all of what was going on. It was none of their bees wax anyway.
I think that is the best approach. None of them had experienced what I had experienced so why bother explaining? It would do no good because their opinions would not likely change from merely talking to them. My opinion did not change until I saw things thru my own biased peepers. Why should I expect any different from them?
I didn't tell any family or friends till I was engaged. I was on PL though and even talked to JWR by phone before my first visit to Colombia....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 19, 2018, 03:58:19 PM
If inquiring minds REALLY want to know, they can shove it up their nosey asses...
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 19, 2018, 06:17:59 PM
If inquiring minds REALLY want to know, they can shove it up their nosey asses...
Damn straight! If they ask, they shouldn't know...
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 19, 2018, 08:07:41 PM
I remember being one of those "skeptics" at one time. I always thought the only reason a foreign woman would marry a gringo was to get a green card. Then I went to Mexico to work. I could tell I had more of the ladies interested in me there than in the US. I just chalked it up to them wanting a ride to the US. After spending alot of time there, I saw in some cases this was obvious but not in all cases. Over time my skepticism  was "softened". I realized there was opportunity to find gold if a man took the time to look.

I guess growing up in a pretty internationally mixed family, along with being in or around the NYC area,  all that made mixing with and dating girls/women from all over the world, a non event. But that said, be it dumb macho pride or whatever, I still always wanted to try relationships with women from as many nations and religions as I could manage. Not like I was looking to mark notches in my bedpost, but I most definitely wanted to try ALL the 'flavors'. From Black to Spanish Harlem, to the Jewish princeses and WASPs up in toney Westchester County and anywhere else interesting.

Thank God 'AIDS' hadn't arrived.

Then, going to a really big university brought that along, bringing me exposure to women from the middle east, which was new and interesting to me.  I actually made it a habit to work out at the aquatic center, as a lot of those brownish beauties swum a lot of laps to keep their svelte figures. And I knew they had to come out the pool eventually!

Those women, from outside the strict religious confines of their home countries,  were beautiful and a lot of fun. So were their male middle,eastern counterparts, who I played soccer with and boy, could those dudes party and more often than not, spend money like crazy. The Trans Am, and Vette driving  guys.

But while I was then especially, a very, very social, party animal, I was so buzzed, and I didn't know if it was respect or parody (and I was too 'buzzed' to really care either way) but on the weekends, I was labeled 'El Presidente' LOL. I really thought I was hot sh!t. Now, in college, the 'weekend' starts on Thursday. If that were that the case then, I'd have been 'pickled' from drinking, unable to make good grades, which somehow, I was able to still do. When they offered to pay me to stay for grad school, I didn't blink, staying on, my partying didn't slow a bit.THAT would come back to bite my ass later.

But I had some total knock out girlfriends, most memorably, a Belgian minx, a total fox and brainiac, who I almost married. We even lived together full time, so unlike me. She was the proverbial ' one that got away' --- I  met her family, she met mine, lotsa love, everybody loved Monique. But she warned me to slow down, I didn't and she ended up with her Calculus tutor. They're still married today!

But despite being a bit of a peacock, a jerk and a dandy strutter, I never felt any need to brag about or show pictures of babes I was dating and or bagging.

When I moved to the conservative, Baptist dominated 'old south', I didn't slow down (yet) and I still looked for and somehow found babes from different nations. Made some great 'good ole boy' buddies, but except for a couple real close buds, I never let off that I was particularly 'sweet' on any one foriegn babe.

When the that 'wedding bell sound' started approaching, my choice of a woman from overseas was actually a surprise to almost everyone, to friends and fellow workers. Not proper, but right up to the engagement, I was dating a few simultaneously, even with my second, foreign wife. So my friends and co workers had no idea that I was (or could be) 'serious' about 'that' foriegn girl.

Second time around, I had two young sons. They HAD to know and approve, or sadly, it would've been a 'no go'. My younger son has always been cool with her. But my older boy, just hitting puberty, while he said he was 'cool' with her before the wedding, like hell and boiling oil, he changed his mind and that was beyond tough for my wife.

But looking back, seeing how I lived a larger than life, totally over the top life, I'm surprised that I didn't feel the need to brag or let off that a number of total 'darlings' were MY girl. I was soooo fecking full of myself.

About twenty years ago, it all came to a critical mass--my partying, substances--the drinks were having ME, instead of the other way around, I finally quit totally. I doubt if I'd be here today, had I not.

One day, a July 5th, I said "no more"-- 'done'- no rehab, no AA, cold. Haven't had a drink since. It had cost me Ms. Belgium, sent me, tail between legs, into the deep south and to a large extent, harmed my first marriage, expediting it's end. My wife's sooo glad I'm not 'like that' anymore.

But older and wiser, as well as single again, I realized just how much the 'dating game' had changed. My 'stock value' and to some extent, the women in my area as well, had changed.  That sent me overseas for a woman of the caliber and type I'd most certainly be looking for still, had I not 'got on the plane'

So when yer butt's in a rut, pick yerself up and get that butt on the plane!!! After all, when youre down, the only way you can look is up! And don't give a rat's ass about what anyone else might think. So what if you're fixin to disappear and have to let off. Just tell them all that you're going on 'vacation'. And it won't even be a lie....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 20, 2018, 04:29:10 AM
And always remember that variety is the spice of life!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 20, 2018, 06:26:00 AM
Why the hell do guys care so much what others think?


Isnt that a sign of insecurity?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: utopiacowboy on April 20, 2018, 06:35:02 AM
Bringing a foreign woman to the US is never going to be looked upon favorably. Americans are an inward looking group who do not travel to other countries (64% have never left the US) and do not welcome immigrants. If you bring a foreign woman here, all people will think is that you are bringing another immigrant along with her family in the following years.


Immigrant bashing and immigrant hatred has gotten worse in recent years especially if she is from a Latin American country and she is not white. Of course in another twenty years the country will no longer be majority white but it's going to be a rough couple of decades. Large areas of the country will still be mostly white and I expect those places will break off from the rest of the country in an attempt to retain an area of white supremacy.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 20, 2018, 07:53:04 AM
Bringing a foreign woman to the US is never going to be looked upon favorably. Americans are an inward looking group who do not travel to other countries (64% have never left the US) and do not welcome immigrants. If you bring a foreign woman here, all people will think is that you are bringing another immigrant along with her family in the following years.


Immigrant bashing and immigrant hatred has gotten worse in recent years especially if she is from a Latin American country and she is not white. Of course in another twenty years the country will no longer be majority white but it's going to be a rough couple of decades. Large areas of the country will still be mostly white and I expect those places will break off from the rest of the country in an attempt to retain an area of white supremacy.

But of course! Doesn't everybody realize that it was white men who discovered this 'new world' called the USA and that it was solely their blood, sweat and toil that made this great nation what it is today?---yeah, right. My Irish and Italian grandparents had to read signs that in large, bold print, in the front windows said:

"Help Wanted"--NO Irish or Italians need apply"

Civl rights? No such thing then in reality, and darker skinned people had it even worse. First inkling of a leg up was when they were able to risk their lives fighting wars abroad or gave up their children to do the same, which almost all my uncles did. As did many of my first Cousins, but at least my Cousins were allowed to work in better capacities and earn their way high up into upper military ranks.

In my Grandparent's early days, being allowed to take and pass the civil service exam to become a NYC garbageman, was to them like winning the lotto today.

Actually today, NYC garbagemen, errr "Sanitary Engineers" now make after 5.5 years, an AVERAGE salary of $86, 616 a year!! So maybe most of us, WOULD be better off in that intensely Union comfort protected job! How'd you like to earn that kind of jack at age 23, working for NYC, while living across the river in New Jersey, where homes cost half as much?

But back in the day, it was meager paying, menial labor, without overtime pay or many 'niceties.'

And then again in the earlier days,  when they dared to actually vote in elections, which were still often 'rigged' --maybe getting into the civil service was an option, but only offered to secure their votes, and even then, only IF they passed the exam which was only offered in English.

Early on, my Grandparents were careful to stay out of the sun, as if they had tanned skins, for starters, it meant that they were viewed as lowly, outdoor day labor grunts. They were disrespected, looked down upon and there was NO welfare system. They were viewed as a disposable population for the lowest labor and for war service on the front lines. Good to die.

Wonder who the hell built the railroads, the skylines of our large cities or more recently, like NOW, who picks most of the crops in the USA , processes meat and poultry,  and who frames out and builds the most houses?

Yet somehow, they were able to build the Empire State building in just over one year. Today, it typically takes them at least two years to build an elementary school and more often than not, they're defective from day one of opening. We haven't had a single new school open without AC, Heating, electrical and water leakage issues.

Oh well, that just pertains to what we we eat and where send our children, where we live, small details.

Hell, I see those  Mexicans---standing out in the driving rain, 5:00 in the morning, hoping some contractor will pass by and after looking them over for 'fittness' like the black slaves of yore, and allowing the 'chosen' amongst them to pile into the pick up bed and be paid 'off the books' to do 'labor'.

I've been in the trailers, twenty Mexican, all living together, a big pot of refried beans, rice on the side, counting their cash and coins to send home. How the hell are we gonna be able to throw them all back over 'the wall'???

AND besides, I'd like to smack those non English speaking Mexicans that built my house so poorly. Or... Maybe I shoud punch the white, English speaking foreman who, while sitting in his $75,000, made in Mexico Chevy Silverado,  without knowing any Spanish, using grunts, glances, finger pointing and maybe the Mexican  one guy who understood enough English to serve as a 'go between' -- 'supervised' the construction of my crappy home.

'First come, first served" Unless you're an Indian, God forbid.....Somehow, we couldn't,  still can't kill them off, not ALL the American Indians. But we continue to try! Not being immune to things like the common cold didn't do it, so we gave them the blankets from dead small pox and yellow fever victims. Nope, wasn't enough and drugs, alcohol and the still worst schools in the USA can't exterminate them.

Sooo, we ve given them gambling licenses and now they're fighting each other for control of the money and casino rights. Hey, we're still trying!!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 20, 2018, 09:04:02 AM
dont have the same situation inCanada.

And Canadian women, despite being very liberated and indocrinated with feminism, only wishme the very best with my relatinships in Latin America..no matter what the age difference.

I guess if you dont throw things in peoples face..and are a genuine good person
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: fathertime on April 20, 2018, 09:31:12 AM
Couldn't come up with a better title. I don't tell many people about P.L. or my long term goal of settling down with/marrying a woman from Latin America.

The few times I have done so I hear all kinds of negative stuff about "green card" marriages and guys getting used, etc.

Yet, the writing is so clearly on the wall as to why this road is a good option. The millennial generation in the U.S.A. is having less sex than any generation in 60 years!

I generally avoid Online Dating in the U.S. but I did recently see a 33 year old woman with this on her profile, "Looking for the fairy tale and I won't settle." A 33 year old in many part of Latin America is over the hill.

Had a conversation with a young woman in the USA recently who said all the information I was getting was biased. The guys on P.L. are just sugarcoating their relationships and not telling the bad parts. Lots of guys are getting cheated on and they don't even know it.

I know the best thing to do is to ingore this kind of thinking...still wondering what kind of negative or disparging remarks have you guys heard over the years? Did your own family and friends tell warn you were setting yourself up to fail with a foreign relationship/marriage?
My thought is not to concern yourself too much with outsider viewpoints.  You can chuckle and roll with some of the more ignorant things said by people who don't know better.   
People with first hand knowledge will have a variety of experiences as well, and obviously some are good, bad, and middle of the road. 
Overall it seems you have educated yourself to know enough of the pitfalls, and upsides, but there is always more to learn. 
Short term trainwrecks, long term trainwrecks, happily ever afters, bliss then peaceful parting of the ways, there are many outcomes, and really in my opinion it doesn't matter that much. 
It seems your 'calling' is to make a foreign relationship happen, if it were me, I'd double up, and get on the horse and make it happen.  Roll the dice.  Time is not your friend.  All outcomes are survivable, while time on the fence is lost for good.  Although that may be my attitude,  you know your own personality, resilience, so personality characteristics does need to be a top consideration for each individual...so approaches should vary based on how well you can recover if a relationship goes down the crapper.   


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 20, 2018, 11:06:32 AM
dont have the same situation inCanada.

And Canadian women, despite being very liberated and indocrinated with feminism, only wishme the very best with my relatinships in Latin America..no matter what the age difference.

I guess if you dont throw things in peoples face..and are a genuine good person


I recently spent a lot of time in Canada for work. A month in Montreal and 6 weeks in Vancouver. I agree with you 100%. I spoke to quite a few women in Montreal because our facilities there have a staff of about 90% women and almost all the women working at the hotel where we stayed were very attractive. As a matter of fact there were really hot women everywhere we went in Montreal. I had no idea French Canadian Women were so gorgeous. I spoke to quite a few of them about international dating and they were very open minded about it. In Vancouver, with a significant percentage of the population being from China or having Chinese ancestry, bringing women from other countries is a way of life. The Chinese, the Indians, the Filipinos, the Japanese....they all do it there.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: utopiacowboy on April 20, 2018, 01:04:56 PM

I recently spent a lot of time in Canada for work. A month in Montreal and 6 weeks in Vancouver. I agree with you 100%. I spoke to quite a few women in Montreal because our facilities there have a staff of about 90% women and almost all the women working at the hotel where we stayed were very attractive. As a matter of fact there were really hot women everywhere we went in Montreal. I had no idea French Canadian Women were so gorgeous. I spoke to quite a few of them about international dating and they were very open minded about it. In Vancouver, with a significant percentage of the population being from China or having Chinese ancestry, bringing women from other countries is a way of life. The Chinese, the Indians, the Filipinos, the Japanese....they all do it there.


Canada is everything the US should be but isn't. If it wasn't for the climate I would move back to Montreal and live there. I may buy a place up there and stay six months of the year just to get out of this insane asylum.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 21, 2018, 08:49:40 AM

Canada is everything the US should be but isn't. If it wasn't for the climate I would move back to Montreal and live there. I may buy a place up there and stay six months of the year just to get out of this insane asylum.

Now that they've got unemployment down to its lowest levels in forty years, hopefully an already great Canada will get even better. I went to school in Ontario for a while and my wife enjoys vacationing there as much as I do. Doubt if we'll ever see all of Yong Street, which starts in Toronto and is the world's longest road, LOL. But we've tried!

Such a large land mass, so few people. Hopefully they'll continue to get a handle on immigration, bringing in people who are already able and willing to work, or can be trained.

People in general seem so much nicer there and regardless of ethnicity, seem to get along with each other better than here.

Banff and Montreal are on our short list, but Montreal so popular that finding a hotel room there in the summer's often difficult.  Sort of a closer, less expensive version of western Europe, but we'll probably get to W. Europe first.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 21, 2018, 09:34:44 AM

How to deflect the skeptics?

Just show them articles like this....even if you do get divorced....it is usually less expensive than if you had married a woman from another country. Just based on the fact that she will have less access to credit.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21)


Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 21, 2018, 10:23:57 AM
How to deflect the skeptics?

Just show them articles like this....even if you do get divorced....it is usually less expensive than if you had married a woman from another country. Just based on the fact that she will have less access to credit.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21)


It can happen. I think I've told the story about the Russian blonde bombshell--she had legs so long that you had to stop at the knees and ask for directions---anyways, she met some poor rube here he married her, brought her over, adopted her child. Then, he signed for something like a quarter million in Medical school student loans. I imagine med school's more expensive now.

But before she even was graduated and practicing, she dumped him, leaving him with the student loans AND still having to support her and pay full child support.

Personally, I'm very wary of Eastern European, of former USSR nation's women. Centuries of deception, spy craft, wiley ways, often hard scrabble lives in a very misygonist world, do not often make for well adjusted young ladies.

That said, I think some of the, if not THE hottest looking women, come from Hungary and Czechslovakia. I almost ended up with an incredibly beautiful half Russian, half Asian  woman from Kazakhstan, a still communist, former USSR satellite nation, with lots of the above described problems. China's gotten better, but I'm still wary there too.

But ooh la la, Kazakhstan Leyla could've had King Kong eating out of her hand like a puppy...Mmm, mmm, mm...
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 21, 2018, 06:49:56 PM
Now that they've got unemployment down to its lowest levels in forty years, hopefully an already great Canada will get even better. I went to school in Ontario for a while and my wife enjoys vacationing there as much as I do. Doubt if we'll ever see all of Yong Street, which starts in Toronto and is the world's longest road, LOL. But we've tried!

Such a large land mass, so few people. Hopefully they'll continue to get a handle on immigration, bringing in people who are already able and willing to work, or can be trained.

People in general seem so much nicer there and regardless of ethnicity, seem to get along with each other better than here.

Banff and Montreal are on our short list, but Montreal so popular that finding a hotel room there in the summer's often difficult.  Sort of a closer, less expensive version of western Europe, but we'll probably get to W. Europe first.

Lets not get too carried away..it is a false economy ..mostly .public employment and real estate speculation ..no way near as economicallly diversified ss the US..and taxes and cost of living and taxes way higher than the US..especially in "La Belle Provence"

But still the way some of you guys complain about fat women.and Feminism.and Jealous women in the US..Canada doesnt sound so bad in this regard
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 21, 2018, 07:01:36 PM
How to deflect the skeptics?

Just show them articles like this....even if you do get divorced....it is usually less expensive than if you had married a woman from another country. Just based on the fact that she will have less access to credit.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21)



Ja ja..if this is a true story..the b1tch thought she could get away with his house and pension after only 2.years marriage.

Many Colombian wlmen would jump at this opportunity too, if you let them.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 21, 2018, 07:37:31 PM
Lets not get too carried away..it is a false economy ..mostly .public employment and real estate speculation ..no way near as economicallly diversified ss the US..and taxes and cost of living and taxes way higher than the US..especially in "La Belle Provence"

But still the way some of you guys complain about fat women.and Feminism.and Jealous women in the US..Canada doesnt sound so bad in this regard

It wasn't feminism that appeared to be an issue in the 70's and 80s in the USA or Canada, when I was in my teens and early 20s living there, going to school etc. Just seemed the girls in school and in the clubs were a lot prettier and perhaps a bit nicer natured as well. A lot less immigrant cuties than now, but a lot of blondes for sure. The beer was better and exchange rate for USD was good too.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 21, 2018, 08:04:39 PM


The USA economy is all smoke and mirrors, creative accounting. Unlike a while back, the US Govt. is not required to tell the world just how much money, how much 'legal tender' they're rolling out, but they're probably akin to toilet paper figures.

Then again, so many govt. released figures aren't even able to be substantiad by available cash reserves, they're just figures they bounce around.The old ledger balance switcheroo...

As long as the USD remains the world's 'Reserve Currency ' everyone will probably continue to play along with our silly shell game, although some other nations also engage in 'creative accounting'. It's not until the scheme becomes increasingly apparent, as inflation rears it's ugly rear, that it starts to hit the fan.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 21, 2018, 08:29:29 PM

Ja ja..if this is a true story..the b1tch thought she could get away with his house and pension after only 2.years marriage.

Many Colombian wlmen would jump at this opportunity too, if you let them.


Why wouldn’t you think it’s a true story
She is American
Could have been a lot worst actually
She could have run up debt while she was married and he would have had to pay half of that also
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 22, 2018, 10:24:40 PM

Short term trainwrecks, long term trainwrecks, happily ever afters, bliss then peaceful parting of the ways, there are many outcomes, and really in my opinion it doesn't matter that much. 
It seems your 'calling' is to make a foreign relationship happen, if it were me, I'd double up, and get on the horse and make it happen.  Roll the dice.  Time is not your friend.  All outcomes are survivable, while time on the fence is lost for good.  Although that may be my attitude,  you know your own personality, resilience, so personality characteristics does need to be a top consideration for each individual...so approaches should vary based on how well you can recover if a relationship goes down the crapper.   


Great post...and great point about time on the fence.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on April 22, 2018, 10:35:58 PM
How to deflect the skeptics?

Just show them articles like this....even if you do get divorced....it is usually less expensive than if you had married a woman from another country. Just based on the fact that she will have less access to credit.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-paid-off-my-wifes-student-loans-then-she-filed-for-divorce-after-two-years-of-marriage-2018-04-21)


I went out on a date with a 27 year old Latina about 3 weeks ago...here in Los Angeles. She has an older brother who is 40 years old and a cop with the LAPD.

Apparently, he got married at 30 to a 23 year old girl. A local girl from the USA, no green card issues, etc. He was the provider. She didn't work. He paid for her nice BMW and even paid for a private trainer for her fitness activities. Well, turns out she was cheating on him with the private trainer!  He filed for divorce instatnly upon finding out. They had no kids. He is now single and a bachelor again.

I asked her how her brother caught the wife cheating but she didn't know the details. 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 23, 2018, 06:25:32 AM
I went out on a date with a 27 year old Latina about 3 weeks ago...here in Los Angeles. She has an older brother who is 40 years old and a cop with the LAPD.

Apparently, he got married at 30 to a 23 year old girl. A local girl from the USA, no green card issues, etc. He was the provider. She didn't work. He paid for her nice BMW and even paid for a private trainer for her fitness activities. Well, turns out she was cheating on him with the private trainer!  He filed for divorce instatnly upon finding out. They had no kids. He is now single and a bachelor again.

I asked her how her brother caught the wife cheating but she didn't know the details.

Co workers, personal trainers and nannies, are a fairly common source of extra marital afffairs, and it's not just in hollywood. Quite a long time ago, we thought of hiring a live in nanny. My ex wife's first requirements for any prospective nanny were that she be fat, ugly and older.

Hiring a 'private'--'personal' opposite sex personal trainer is almost asking for trouble, but even same-sex ones are possibly bi, gay. Regardless, they often let the client vent all about their issues with their spouse, which isn't their purpose.

It's not just the kid who cleans the pool anymore.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 23, 2018, 06:45:53 AM
if you gotta worry abiut your gf or wife fochln the personal trainer...or pool boy..or coworkers.time to say "next"..

if she wont be fochin one of them she be fochin someone else and she be a puta and time to get her out of your "bread line".
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 23, 2018, 09:44:19 AM

 Quite a long time ago, we thought of hiring a live in nanny. My ex wife's first requirements for any prospective nanny were that she be fat, ugly and older.



That's the same same first requirement of almost any Colombian wife here. The only guys I know that have attractive maids are single and yeah they are shagging them. jajaja


Colombian women are much more logical about fidelity.....they assume that if you are tempted and have ample opportunity....you are going to indulge.


Then on occasion you have the ones that say they trust you..... which really means they don't care if you cheat and of course they expect the same trust from you. LOL!


They are really open relationships here....but everybody pretends they are not. Just in case someone might get offended.  :o


Any chick in Colombia that is OK with you going out at night to hang out with your friends without her....doesn't really care if you are seeing other women.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: benjio on April 23, 2018, 10:19:03 AM
Apparently, he got married at 30 to a 23 year old girl. A local girl from the USA, no green card issues, etc. He was the provider. She didn't work. He paid for her nice BMW and even paid for a private trainer for her fitness activities. Well, turns out she was cheating on him with the private trainer!  He filed for divorce instatnly upon finding out. They had no kids. He is now single and a bachelor again.


I not only know a guy this happened to but I've heard this story a million times. My friend's wife cheated with her personal trainer once (she claims) and she was so ridden with guilt that she admitted it to him. I sincerely believe she was very much so in love with my friend and just had a moment of weakness. After a couple of years of marriage counseling he decided to forgive her and they've been married 11 years now. Obviously there were kids involved so there was a lot of motivation on both sides to make the marriage work. He's a better man than me. I can't forgive infidelity. Even if it's a one time thing and not a full blown affair. If I figure it out....it's over.


One thing he told me I'll never forget though: If your girlfriend/wife insist on staying in shape to the point she wants a personal trainer, that's a wonderful problem to have. But get her a female trainer. There are literally tons of them in every major city. The advantages are endless. They'll be able to relate to them better physiologically and empathize with the many struggles women have with body image and unrealistic expectations of beauty. But more importantly, she won't be placed in an intense, sexually charged situation with another man 2 or 3 times a week. The sweat. The hormones. The adrenaline. There's probably not a better recipe for a quicky at the nearest motel if you're talking about two people that are already attracted to one another. And if it's good sex, if there's chemistry...there's a chance it will become habitual. Women are human. They can become victims of their own carnal desires just like us. The best way for either gender to remain faithful is not placing themselves in situations where having sex with someone other than your significant other is so enticing.


When I was in Rio dating the mother of my son she had a friend I had to act like I absolutely hated. I told my ex I didn't want to be around her at all....NEVER! The truth is I wanted to #$@& her brains out so bad that just making eye contact with her would increase my heart rate and make my palms sweat. And although she never said anything I'm pretty sure the feeling was mutual. Long, drawn out eye contact. She'd find any little excuse to touch me and would always look into my eyes afterwards then too. Playing with her hair anytime she spoke to me. Bending over to pick things up in front of me. Laughing at all my jokes. She would always show up places when I was with my ex and almost never show up when my ex would meet friends without me. And this chick could have had any guy she wanted. I mean ANYONE!! I could not have drawn a woman who was more my type physically. Even the sound of her voice would set me off. It made no sense to me why she acted that way.  I even thought they were trying to set me up at one point. I didn't want to hurt my ex though. I really didn't want to mess that up. I had to do what I had to do to make sure it never happened. Because honestly, if placed in that situation, no way in hell I could have resisted.


All that said I tend to agree with Elex. If there's even an inkling of something like that rattling around in your head about your woman, it's time to have that talk. It's not worth the stress.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on April 23, 2018, 11:16:49 AM

I not only know a guy this happened to but I've heard this story a million times. My friend's wife cheated with her personal trainer once (she claims) and she was so ridden with guilt that she admitted it to him. I sincerely believe she was very much so in love with my friend and just had a moment of weakness. After a couple of years of marriage counseling he decided to forgive her and they've been married 11 years now. Obviously there were kids involved so there was a lot of motivation on both sides to make the marriage work. He's a better man than me. I can't forgive infidelity. Even if it's a one time thing and not a full blown affair. If I figure it out....it's over.


One thing he told me I'll never forget though: If your girlfriend/wife insist on staying in shape to the point she wants a personal trainer, that's a wonderful problem to have. But get her a female trainer. There are literally tons of them in every major city. The advantages are endless. They'll be able to relate to them better physiologically and empathize with the many struggles women have with body image and unrealistic expectations of beauty. But more importantly, she won't be placed in an intense, sexually charged situation with another man 2 or 3 times a week. The sweat. The hormones. The adrenaline. There's probably not a better recipe for a quicky at the nearest motel if you're talking about two people that are already attracted to one another. And if it's good sex, if there's chemistry...there's a chance it will become habitual. Women are human. They can become victims of their own carnal desires just like us. The best way for either gender to remain faithful is not placing themselves in situations where having sex with someone other than your significant other is so enticing.


When I was in Rio dating the mother of my son she had a friend I had to act like I absolutely hated. I told my ex I didn't want to be around her at all....NEVER! The truth is I wanted to #$@& her brains out so bad that just making eye contact with her would increase my heart rate and make my palms sweat. And although she never said anything I'm pretty sure the feeling was mutual. Long, drawn out eye contact. She'd find any little excuse to touch me and would always look into my eyes afterwards then too. Playing with her hair anytime she spoke to me. Bending over to pick things up in front of me. Laughing at all my jokes. She would always show up places when I was with my ex and almost never show up when my ex would meet friends without me. And this chick could have had any guy she wanted. I mean ANYONE!! I could not have drawn a woman who was more my type physically. Even the sound of her voice would set me off. It made no sense to me why she acted that way.  I even thought they were trying to set me up at one point. I didn't want to hurt my ex though. I really didn't want to mess that up. I had to do what I had to do to make sure it never happened. Because honestly, if placed in that situation, no way in hell I could have resisted.


All that said I tend to agree with Elex. If there's even an inkling of something like that rattling around in your head about your woman, it's time to have that talk. It's not worth the stress.

Jaja. My wife had an attractive Cuban friend, former professional dancer, who was very sexy. They had a falling out which was just as well because it removed the temptation...I am actually glad my wife's female friends friends are older and not sexy... As for personal trainers, from what Ive observed,  alot are total horndogs who flirt constantly and have no problem banging hot clients, even married ones....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 23, 2018, 11:52:18 AM
It must be that thing with 'forbidden fruit'. Because you hear of these type of stories all the time. My ex asked me to go to the bars with her. It was never my scene and the fact my father was an alcoholic just made bars a turn off for me. I let her go 'cluck with the hens'. Apparently there was a lot of clucking going on that she did the dirty dance with somebody else. In the end, I can honestly say that the money I lost during the divorce was money well spent. I don't have a psychotic wife to put up with anymore and I am learning about other 'fishes in the sea!'
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 23, 2018, 06:05:15 PM

I not only know a guy this happened to but I've heard this story a million times. My friend's wife cheated with her personal trainer once (she claims) and she was so ridden with guilt that she admitted it to him. I sincerely believe she was very much so in love with my friend and just had a moment of weakness. After a couple of years of marriage counseling he decided to forgive her and they've been married 11 years now. Obviously there were kids involved so there was a lot of motivation on both sides to make the marriage work. He's a better man than me. I can't forgive infidelity. Even if it's a one time thing and not a full blown affair. If I figure it out....it's over.


One thing he told me I'll never forget though: If your girlfriend/wife insist on staying in shape to the point she wants a personal trainer, that's a wonderful problem to have. But get her a female trainer. There are literally tons of them in every major city. The advantages are endless. They'll be able to relate to them better physiologically and empathize with the many struggles women have with body image and unrealistic expectations of beauty. But more importantly, she won't be placed in an intense, sexually charged situation with another man 2 or 3 times a week. The sweat. The hormones. The adrenaline. There's probably not a better recipe for a quicky at the nearest motel if you're talking about two people that are already attracted to one another. And if it's good sex, if there's chemistry...there's a chance it will become habitual. Women are human. They can become victims of their own carnal desires just like us. The best way for either gender to remain faithful is not placing themselves in situations where having sex with someone other than your significant other is so enticing.


When I was in Rio dating the mother of my son she had a friend I had to act like I absolutely hated. I told my ex I didn't want to be around her at all....NEVER! The truth is I wanted to #$@& her brains out so bad that just making eye contact with her would increase my heart rate and make my palms sweat. And although she never said anything I'm pretty sure the feeling was mutual. Long, drawn out eye contact. She'd find any little excuse to touch me and would always look into my eyes afterwards then too. Playing with her hair anytime she spoke to me. Bending over to pick things up in front of me. Laughing at all my jokes. She would always show up places when I was with my ex and almost never show up when my ex would meet friends without me. And this chick could have had any guy she wanted. I mean ANYONE!! I could not have drawn a woman who was more my type physically. Even the sound of her voice would set me off. It made no sense to me why she acted that way.  I even thought they were trying to set me up at one point. I didn't want to hurt my ex though. I really didn't want to mess that up. I had to do what I had to do to make sure it never happened. Because honestly, if placed in that situation, no way in hell I could have resisted.


All that said I tend to agree with Elex. If there's even an inkling of something like that rattling around in your head about your woman, it's time to have that talk. It's not worth the stress.


If the Private trainer is also your personal PI than its a good test...to vet her out..

For Colombian men money is more important than pu$$y
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 24, 2018, 11:31:55 AM
Guess someone thought the above post was so nice, he wanted to see it twice, LOL.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 24, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
Guess someone thought the above post was so nice, he wanted to see it twice, LOL.


You have patience to write 3000 word essays, but dont have the patience to read someone elses repeated post  with an addition at the end


read the end 2 or 3 sentences.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on April 24, 2018, 04:31:03 PM
Elexpatriado said:
Quote
You have patience to write 3000 word essays, but dont have the patience to read someone elses repeated post  with an addition at the end

Elex, do your self a favor and separate your comments from the quoted treatise! You do the same thing on the other forums. Jeeesh!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: buencamino3 on April 24, 2018, 05:22:50 PM

read the end 2 or 3 sentences.


Don't be wishy washy. Is it "2" or "3" sentences?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 24, 2018, 05:41:06 PM

You have patience to write 3000 word essays, but dont have the patience to read someone elses repeated post  with an addition at the end


read the end 2 or 3 sentences.
Elex  I apologize. I did read the entire, excellent post in its entirety the first time, but as you put your 26 word contribution inside the grayed out area designated for quotes, I somehow missed it on my second read. Human error--honestly, I've made that same mistake too.

Maybe it's because the 26 words were written so well, and not at your characteristically grade school, 'D' mark grammar level, that I missed it!!  ;D ::)
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 25, 2018, 08:56:35 AM

Don't be wishy washy. Is it "2" or "3" sentences?


Goback and read it and you tell me
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 25, 2018, 08:58:38 AM
Elex  I apologize. I did read the entire, excellent post in its entirety the first time, but as you put your 26 word contribution inside the grayed out area designated for quotes, I somehow missed it on my second read. Human error--honestly, I've made that same mistake too.

Maybe it's because the 26 words were written so well, and not at your characteristically grade school, 'D' mark grammar level, that I missed it!!  ;D ::)


Please go back and count again..I want to be 100% sure it was exactly 26 and not 27 or 28.


Only obvious error I could see was "than" instead of "then" other than  regular fast written short cuts...


Thank you very kindly for your effort!!!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Calipro on April 25, 2018, 11:31:44 AM
If the Private trainer is also your personal PI than its a good test...to vet her out..For Colombian men money is more important than pu$$y


Let's try and stay on topic....this was Elexpat's contribution to the board.


I don't know what he is getting at...... unless...he is suggesting that you could always pay the trainer to spy on your women. jajaja


Because for any man living in Colombia....money is always more important than pu$$y.


Pu$$y = unlimited supply (if you live in Colombia)
Money = scarce (can you really ever have enough)
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 25, 2018, 06:51:21 PM

Let's try and stay on topic....this was Elexpat's contribution to the board.


I don't know what he is getting at...... unless...he is suggesting that you could always pay the trainer to spy on your women. jajaja


Because for any man living in Colombia....money is always more important than pu$$y.


Pu$$y = unlimited supply (if you live in Colombia)
Money = scarce (can you really ever have enough)


Exactly
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 26, 2018, 07:28:18 AM

Please go back and count again..I want to be 100% sure it was exactly 26 and not 27 or 28.


Only obvious error I could see was "than" instead of "then" other than  regular fast written short cuts...


Thank you very kindly for your effort!!!

Maybe you can't write and I can't count! I'm pretty sure I have an SLD (Specific Learning Disability) for Math.

Maybe I'm lexdyslic...

But then again, in our area, we have illiterate people, who paid other people to do their online college papers, coursework etc--who proudly display their internet 'college' degree mill Education PhD diplomas and DEMAND you address them as 'Doctor'. They run our school system, a tightly knit group, mostly from the same sorority.

Interestingly, the more prestigious and recognized the University a person attended and got a Doctoral degree from, the LEAST likely they are to insist on being addressed as 'Dr.

One guy I work with, has a Doctorate from Yale. When I addressed him as "Dr. _____", he said "Only call me a Dr. if I'm very sick'" - - humble dude indeed.

Soooo meanwhile, we have people who can't write, (and making well over a 100K a year) lording over people who can't read!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on April 27, 2018, 01:52:43 PM
Maybe you can't write and I can't count! I'm pretty sure I have an SLD (Specific Learning Disability) for Math.

Maybe I'm lexdyslic...

But then again, in our area, we have illiterate people, who paid other people to do their online college papers, coursework etc--who proudly display their internet 'college' degree mill Education PhD diplomas and DEMAND you address them as 'Doctor'. They run our school system, a tightly knit group, mostly from the same sorority.

Interestingly, the more prestigious and recognized the University a person attended and got a Doctoral degree from, the LEAST likely they are to insist on being addressed as 'Dr.

One guy I work with, has a Doctorate from Yale. When I addressed him as "Dr. _____", he said "Only call me a Dr. if I'm very sick'" - - humble dude indeed.

Soooo meanwhile, we have people who can't write, (and making well over a 100K a year) lording over people who can't read!

I am just pulling your leg you know dont you?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on April 27, 2018, 04:02:18 PM
I am just pulling your leg you know dont you?

OH yeah, we shouldn't take anything here too seriously. Even when it sounds, looks down n nasty, like 'personal' - - it's just our Elex, err... 'alter' ego's spouting off. It's like how kids say the nastiest sh!t to their parents--because they know they can get away with dishing such crap and they won't get punched. Unlike fish, you can't throw your kids back because they come up a bit short.  Same here. I bet if two members from here met in a bar, not knowing the other was some specific guy here, that once it was established we were both foreigners interested in foreign women, 9 out 10 of us would be buying the udder guy a beer, LOL.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Fosgate5 on May 13, 2018, 10:14:42 AM
My take on the subject. I was in a toxic long term relationship (with an American) and when I got out of it I discovered how many people I considered friends and family betrayed me. I found out that she had while she grilled me not to discuss our issues with anyone else, that she was calling and talking to my friends and family that would listen and pinky swear them to secrecy. A few of them even contributed to the demise by fanning her on. I really had to re-evaluate who my friends were and who I let into my life, which is very F'ing few now days. A couple of immediate family members graduated recently to the list of people I will never have direct contact with and will never meet my Filipina fiance because of their tendency to medle and manipulate. Fake people are not limited to just "Friends" sometimes those people are your family members that you have known your whole life and you tolerate their behavior because they are family and you have to put up with it. (I call BS on that)
[/size]
[/size]Through my evaluation of my life, family and friends I realized I had become associated with a lot of people with the "Can't, Don't" attitude which has never been my motto. I've always been a "Can, Do and figure out how" sort of character that loved to prove people wrong when they tell you that you cant do something. These are the crab mentality people Robert referred to. I never really understood that meaning until an entrepreneur friend told me once when he setup a Kiosk in a local mall with his young daughter to run selling hermit crabs when they were popular. "People are no different than crabs, single crab in a bucket and they will always find a way out and get away, more than one and the others will pull each other back into the bucket." It's so true that those "Can't, Don't" people are the other crabs and they will wear on you and pull you back in.
[/size]
[/size]One of the toughest things I did was axing, some of those first few relationships with those type of people. What made it easy is not having the thought of turning into a hermit or parting ways in negative frustration. I just sat down and decided I am going to do the positive things in life and have that outlook. If someone wanted to drag me down they made their choice and it's not in my personal philosophy that I have time for those people anymore.
[/size]
[/size]The questions you get oh the questions. I'm repeatedly getting asked by people, "How did you two meet." despite me telling them twice in the last two months. As someone mentioned before you are now part of that "Mail Order Bride." Club all loaded up on the judgment train by people you meet. I'll tell everyone once, but you don't get to ask me again. I've noticed this pattern in some people and it is a pattern a detective uses in interrogation and in parents with their children when they believe they are lying. Depending on mood I will either deflect it or simply call them out on it. Usually I use a "Socratic Method" as in answering a question with a question. Usually they will followup with some totally stupid comment or reasoning. Humor may work temporarily, but they will still inquire if not now later in the future. So I have found the best though at just be direct and be brutally honest with them.
[/size]
[/size]This is what typically do, I ask them why do they feel it is necessary to repeatedly ask me the same question or ask why they would ask me that? Regardless of how they answer I dump on them my disinterest of American women at my age, their behaviors in my dating history and what I am seeing. I then reinforce myself by saying something like, "It's great that your in a marriage. Your lucky you are not single in today's dating world and if you ever get a divorce you will find very quickly what I am seeing vs your current opinion of the matter. You might label me as a mail order bride husband, guy who cant get a good woman here, I'm a loser, my fiance as greencard seeker, ...all that weak stereotypical judgmental petty bullshet prenotions of close minded mean ass people. If you do please let me know now so I can not be around people like you."
[/size]
[/size]Usually their eyes are wide as they realized they just stepped over the line and apologize up and down and we are then good for the rest of the conversation. If you have repeated good talks they are cool with you and your situation. If they don't call asking to get together or chat etc. F'k em! They are exactly the people you don't want around messing with your positive outlook or your relationship. It's better to find that out early on so your not wasting precious time on them rather than meeting new people and spending time with those who would rather celebrate their own relationship with their spouse as well as yours with you.
[/size]
(https://i0.wp.com/www.themanifeststation.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/mean-people-suck.jpg)
[/size]
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on May 13, 2018, 06:17:29 PM
Welcome to the club Fosgate5!I think you will find you are in with like-minded people, (possibly with exemption to elex!). Yep, I got the same BS when I stepped outside of the lines also. I don't let it bother me to be honest with you. Just recently I made a post on Facebook about my theft at El Dorado. A woman from my HS class asks, "Still looking of love in all the wrong places?" I wanted to swing an axe at her. But instead, I was constructive told her that our hometown wasn't the cultural center of the universe and that I had made many friends, seen many things, and learned a lot of history along the way. This bitch is one bitter pill, "I don't have time for your [snip]ty brag sheet, blah blah blah". I told then don't go messin with a bees nest and expecting not to get stung! The only thing that matters in all this is if you, I and anyone else doing the samething is happy! I may have found that but only time will tell. Everyone else are nothing but pikers. You get out what you put in! If you found some happiness along the way, then 'bully for you!' But screw all the pukes on the sideline. They don't know what they are missing and they don't need to know!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 13, 2018, 07:18:08 PM
Welcome to the club Fosgate5!I think you will find you are in with like-minded people, (possibly with exemption to elex!). Yep, I got the same BS when I stepped outside of the lines also. I don't let it bother me to be honest with you. Just recently I made a post on Facebook about my theft at El Dorado. A woman from my HS class asks, "Still looking of love in all the wrong places?" I wanted to swing an axe at her. But instead, I was constructive told her that our hometown wasn't the cultural center of the universe and that I had made many friends, seen many things, and learned a lot of history along the way. This bitch is one bitter pill, "I don't have time for your [snip]ty brag sheet, blah blah blah". I told then don't go messin with a bees nest and expecting not to get stung! The only thing that matters in all this is if you, I and anyone else doing the samething is happy! I may have found that but only time will tell. Everyone else are nothing but pikers. You get out what you put in! If you found some happiness along the way, then 'bully for you!' But screw all the pukes on the sideline. They don't know what they are missing and they don't need to know!

That's  just one reason I stay off Facebook, Instagram etc. My wife handles it well, in fact she sadly told me today that the Philippines ranks first in 'social media' usage, with in average, people on it FOUR hours a day.

No wonder so many people are out of work. I wonder what 'social media' does to work productivity in the USA. I bet it makes the old 'coffee break/work room gossip time look minuscule.

But when I occasionally look over and glance at her on her iPad FB, I see how it has extrapolated to people we don't, or hardly know---friends of friends ad nauseum.

So many people taking pictures of fancy restaurants, resorts, clothes they're trying on, pics alongside cars and homes they don't even own, etc. Some of the family stuff is nice, but most of the rest reeks of coveting and poser.

Even in 'real life' she'll occasionally--like yesterday, say to me: " It really IS just you and me". Damn right. We have wonderful relationships with our families, fortunately. We have a a lot of friendly acquaintances, lots of graduation party invites now, for example.

But the kids are gone, we both have a surviving parent we care for from afar, but when the lights go out and when the sun comes up, aside from her job's responsibilities, our days, nights our lives, revolve around the TWO of us.

Outside of our immediate family, everyone else are players in a big, all too dramatic play.

And sometimes, even with the family, some couples have to distance themselves, extending the "Feck em all, it's not about them, it's about us" attitude.

Most people outside our situations, outside mindsets like ours, don't understand. As such, being uncomfortable, they'll possibly say, do stuff that'll do little good. My advice is be nice, smile when possible --but keep your distance and don't say too much.

Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: fathertime on May 14, 2018, 08:12:54 AM


Through my evaluation of my life, family and friends I realized I had become associated with a lot of people with the "Can't, Don't" attitude which has never been my motto. I've always been a "Can, Do and figure out how" sort of character that loved to prove people wrong when they tell you that you cant do something. These are the crab mentality people Robert referred to. I never really understood that meaning until an entrepreneur friend told me once when he setup a Kiosk in a local mall with his young daughter to run selling hermit crabs when they were popular. "People are no different than crabs, single crab in a bucket and they will always find a way out and get away, more than one and the others will pull each other back into the bucket." It's so true that those "Can't, Don't" people are the other crabs and they will wear on you and pull you back in.

One of the toughest things I did was axing, some of those first few relationships with those type of people. What made it easy is not having the thought of turning into a hermit or parting ways in negative frustration. I just sat down and decided I am going to do the positive things in life and have that outlook. If someone wanted to drag me down they made their choice and it's not in my personal philosophy that I have time for those people anymore.

The questions you get oh the questions. I'm repeatedly getting asked by people, "How did you two meet." despite me telling them twice in the last two months. As someone mentioned before you are now part of that "Mail Order Bride." Club all loaded up on the judgment train by people you meet. I'll tell everyone once, but you don't get to ask me again. I've noticed this pattern in some people and it is a pattern a detective uses in interrogation and in parents with their children when they believe they are lying. Depending on mood I will either deflect it or simply call them out on it. Usually I use a "Socratic Method" as in answering a question with a question. Usually they will followup with some totally stupid comment or reasoning. Humor may work temporarily, but they will still inquire if not now later in the future. So I have found the best though at just be direct and be brutally honest with them.

This is what typically do, I ask them why do they feel it is necessary to repeatedly ask me the same question or ask why they would ask me that? Regardless of how they answer I dump on them my disinterest of American women at my age, their behaviors in my dating history and what I am seeing. I then reinforce myself by saying something like, "It's great that your in a marriage. Your lucky you are not single in today's dating world and if you ever get a divorce you will find very quickly what I am seeing vs your current opinion of the matter. You might label me as a mail order bride husband, guy who cant get a good woman here, I'm a loser, my fiance as greencard seeker, ...all that weak stereotypical judgmental petty bullshet prenotions of close minded mean ass people. If you do please let me know now so I can not be around people like you."

Usually their eyes are wide as they realized they just stepped over the line and apologize up and down and we are then good for the rest of the conversation. If you have repeated good talks they are cool with you and your situation. If they don't call asking to get together or chat etc. F'k em! They are exactly the people you don't want around messing with your positive outlook or your relationship. It's better to find that out early on so your not wasting precious time on them rather than meeting new people and spending time with those who would rather celebrate their own relationship with their spouse as well as yours with you.


Hehe, personally I wouldn't be TOO hard on outsiders...sure they may be a bit ignorant and ask stupid or prying questions, but I don't think it is that big a deal.  After several years, the questions stop, people accept.  Initially people may find the situation unusual so naturally they are curious.   There will probably always be some level of harmless gossip, but people need something to talk about I guess, and in some cases something to make themselves feel better for whatever reason.  Now that you have written about it here (Which is good), waste little thought/energy on the subject.  Continued good luck with your lady.


Fathertime!   
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on May 14, 2018, 10:05:59 PM
Just recently I made a post on Facebook about my theft at El Dorado. A woman from my HS class asks, "Still looking of love in all the wrong places?" I wanted to swing an axe at her. But instead, I was constructive told her that our hometown wasn't the cultural center of the universe and that I had made many friends, seen many things, and learned a lot of history along the way. This bitch is one bitter pill, "I don't have time for your [snip]ty brag sheet, blah blah blah".


Wow, what a frickn b-i-t-c-h!! Ridiculous.




Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 15, 2018, 03:30:43 AM

Wow, what a frickn b-i-t-c-h!! Ridiculous.

Typically people like that are bitter and unhappy with their own lives. Miserable, wretched souls. At best, narrow minded. By putting down other people, it elevates them in their own minds. They think they 'know better.'

I should feel pity for them, but to be honest, it's hard to.

I've had my share of some pretty dark times. Divorced, about wiped out financially, in a dingey little apartment with primary custody of two young kids, one just out of diapers.

There were other things I had to work through. It made me quit drinking, cold turkey, among other life changes. That was hard, as I knew most of the owners, employees at the clubs, they rarely charged me a dime and there were plenty of babes. I even made time to go back to school while working full time to earn more income.

But family, and I wish they'd lived closer than 1200 miles away, but for better or worse, if we're lucky, we have sort of a 'license by blood' to let off our misery and unhappiness there and I did.

But aside from family, I don't think I dumped my woes on anyone. Or that other people should. Guess I didn't have to, as I was so depressed, I went from 220 well balanced pounds, to 155 emaciated pounds, so people knew I was going through something dark. Not that many cared.

Hated to admit it, but I pretty much 'made' - - and still do, the proverbial bed I sleep in, - - really my life, hellish or otherwise.

And besides my ex, I never felt a need to put anyone else down. And I went too far there. I asked HER to marry me after all. And despite her faults and part time parent status, she added a certain 'polish' to our kids that didn't come from me.

But when I start to throw myself a pity party, I start thinking about a whole lot of people who deal with a a lot worse.

I immediately start to feel better.

I retire next week and the miserable  pit vipers I've worked with for thirty years had stressed me out to the point where I felt like they were trying to run me out of town.

At my retirement dinner last night, I looked at all their oddly smiling faces, at all the people, many who'd in the past stabbed me in the back or otherwise 'Thrown me under the bus'  trying to  tell my self 'Rob, it's business, not personal'---but the happiest, most sincere and beautiful face was my wife's (my closest counsel, work letter editor, she obviously stays out of my PL posts, ha) and I thought:

"Hell, they're not running me out of town, they're the poor fools facing federal and state monitors, I'm CLEAN, free and besides - - I'm not running from a 'job' or 'career' persay----I'm  f___king leading the parade AND running AWAY from THEIR circus! " LOL...

And after they delete my Outlook 365 account access next week,  I have it all saved on my own private  hard drives, along with additional boxes, chock full of paperwork, reports and files. The dirt. Screen shots of files 'transient' or not printable too. Stuff with dates before and after it was backdated.  If they want to lay anything on me, it'll be their downfall.

But last night, after the acollades quieted, after I recieved my gold and crystal mantel clock and the crocodiles were all done smiling, I skipped over our "Risk Management Executive' and told HIS boss, "I was this (-) close to lawyering up, going against the house and while I've covered my bases well, the way I was raised, you don't burn the house on the way out--so....good luck--see you around"...

But misery loves company, that's for sure.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 15, 2018, 07:30:57 PM
The answer to this thread's question: "How to deflect the skeptics?" is really in the title itself. Try to deflect the questions to start with. Don't entertain discussions. If you can't shut them down w/o being rude, try and change the topic. Chances are they already have preconceived notions anyhow and if you let them continue, they'll be on a rip. Slim chance of changing their minds.

And should you bring them closer into your situation and then bring a foreign woman in, it'll make things worse.

Again, it's not about 'them' - - it's about you and her, the person you'll be spending a lot more time with.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on May 15, 2018, 10:36:02 PM
Typically people like that are bitter and unhappy with their own lives. Miserable, wretched souls. At best, narrow minded. By putting down other people, it elevates them in their own minds. They think they 'know better.'

I should feel pity for them, but to be honest, it's hard to.

I've had my share of some pretty dark times. Divorced, about wiped out financially, in a dingey little apartment with primary custody of two young kids, one just out of diapers.

There were other things I had to work through. It made me quit drinking, cold turkey, among other life changes. That was hard, as I knew most of the owners, employees at the clubs, they rarely charged me a dime and there were plenty of babes. I even made time to go back to school while working full time to earn more income.

But family, and I wish they'd lived closer than 1200 miles away, but for better or worse, if we're lucky, we have sort of a 'license by blood' to let off our misery and unhappiness there and I did.

But aside from family, I don't think I dumped my woes on anyone. Or that other people should. Guess I didn't have to, as I was so depressed, I went from 220 well balanced pounds, to 155 emaciated pounds, so people knew I was going through something dark. Not that many cared.

Hated to admit it, but I pretty much 'made' - - and still do, the proverbial bed I sleep in, - - really my life, hellish or otherwise.

And besides my ex, I never felt a need to put anyone else down. And I went too far there. I asked HER to marry me after all. And despite her faults and part time parent status, she added a certain 'polish' to our kids that didn't come from me.

But when I start to throw myself a pity party, I start thinking about a whole lot of people who deal with a a lot worse.

I immediately start to feel better.

I retire next week and the miserable  pit vipers I've worked with for thirty years had stressed me out to the point where I felt like they were trying to run me out of town.

At my retirement dinner last night, I looked at all their oddly smiling faces, at all the people, many who'd in the past stabbed me in the back or otherwise 'Thrown me under the bus'  trying to  tell my self 'Rob, it's business, not personal'---but the happiest, most sincere and beautiful face was my wife's (my closest counsel, work letter editor, she obviously stays out of my PL posts, ha) and I thought:

"Hell, they're not running me out of town, they're the poor fools facing federal and state monitors, I'm CLEAN, free and besides - - I'm not running from a 'job' or 'career' persay----I'm  f___king leading the parade AND running AWAY from THEIR circus! " LOL...

And after they delete my Outlook 365 account access next week,  I have it all saved on my own private  hard drives, along with additional boxes, chock full of paperwork, reports and files. The dirt. Screen shots of files 'transient' or not printable too. Stuff with dates before and after it was backdated.  If they want to lay anything on me, it'll be their downfall.

But last night, after the acollades quieted, after I recieved my gold and crystal mantel clock and the crocodiles were all done smiling, I skipped over our "Risk Management Executive' and told HIS boss, "I was this (-) close to lawyering up, going against the house and while I've covered my bases well, the way I was raised, you don't burn the house on the way out--so....good luck--see you around"...

But misery loves company, that's for sure.
Congrats on your retirement! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's experienced a hostile work environment. I too have sent plenty of work emails to my personal account in case I need to defend myself...I find it incredibly draining but it will make me appreciate retirement,  I'm pretty sure...
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Wildstubby on May 17, 2018, 07:17:19 PM
I echo those sentiments Robert! I have at least 5 more years left in the salt mine before I can throw away my 'blue collar'!
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 17, 2018, 08:38:28 PM
Thanks guys! At least I got in young, got 31 years in and can take my pretty decent health insurance.

My sister is a major officer for a company that owns 8 hospitals in the mid west,  totalling about 10,000 beds, and if she left tomorrow, after about 25 years,  she'd have NO health insurance from them. Way of the world.

The work world in the USA--really worldwide, has changed a lot in the last couple decades. Companies that used to offer good salaries, security, pensions and benefits, even the US post office, pay a lot of workers contract to contract, hourly w/o benefits.

There's still some good jobs out there--my son, a 20 y/o college junior, with dual computer science and math majors,  has an internship paying him $23 an hour and  they said if he works out (he's killin it there and says "It's fun!!") they'll start him around 80K, with great bennies next year, but that's unusual.

My wife, who's struggled with English, both spoken and in writing,  but kept self improving through classes and by working her way up in a few jobs,  is finally 'hitting her stride' and is a lot better in her work self confidence--although every company she's worked with loved her. She been cooridinating eCommerce for them and this week, after 5 years, they gave her the maximum pay raise they can, 7%, plus a bonus. 99% of staff got 2.5% She's still on a 401k matching retirement deal, but she has about 5 weeks a year vacation, which suits us well.

But I made sure as long as she's with me, she stands to inherit my pension. It costs me hundreds each month, (the pretty, much younger wife in the USA 'penalty', LOL) but if we split, my pension goes back up to it's max.

But the first 20, almost 25 work years for me were almost charmed, but it really went to hell. A lot of places have, between lawyers and efficiency 'System Analysts', sucking more work out of fewer people, making things paranoid and hellish. At one time, they had me color coding onto a special columned sheet with colored pencils, every activity I was doing every 15 minutes. (To think--- I almost pursued BOTH of those fields!)

Thankful again for my wife, who made it easier to not let it consume me, was understanding when it did anyway and when I was royally ticked off, got me to save some venomous emails in draft overnight, edit later or just plain outright delete them. Sort of a catharsis writing them, I guess. Plus she was able to sniff out some rat's at work that I didn't pick up on. A woman's intuition, I tell ya, boys.... ::)

I'll probably take at least 6 months or so off and then maybe do something part time. Something that I can take or leave. Gotta work out up my cardio, hang by the neighborhood pool, chill some for sure. The snakes I worked with (I already twice politely rejected their private lunch invitation this week) are making noises about maybe me coming back in some capacity in the future, .49% of the time.

But the blood's still wet from the holes in my back and just the thought it makes me think of Michael Corelone--"The Godfather,"---where he thinks he's out and legit--that he's DONE---and then he realizes otherwise, and Michael says:

"Just when I thought I was OUT--they pull me back in!!!"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-IkWpm7TS0
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: pachris on May 17, 2018, 10:31:46 PM
I've been in IT, specifically software development/engineering for about 20 years and for good college grads with Comp Sci or other related degrees, getting 70-80k is reasonable to expect if the grad has a decent head on their shoulders and knows how to work.  Sounds like your son is one of the good ones! 
My understanding is that the unemployment in IT as a whole is low which is likely helping drive up or keep up the reasonable salaries.  To be fair I've been slightly out of touch on the hiring side for a couple of years as I'm now a contractor for my previous employer in the States after moving to Panama. 


Anyway sounds like you're moving on to better things which I'm sure you'll enjoy more anyway.  If you work pt for your previous employer, definitely make it work your while with some consulting level rates.. there is an old legend, have no idea whether or not it's true and I don't even recall the names.. (sad I know), anyway, per Snopes one variation is Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford who was having some type of difficulty at his factory,  and Henry asked Tesla to help identify the problem area.  Ford asks him to send a bill and it arrives for $10,000.  Ford asked for the breakout and receives and invoice for $1 for marking the spot and 9,999 for knowing where to put it. :) (Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/know-where-man/))


Humorous even if not true I guess. nonetheless. 


Good luck with retirement. 

 
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: mambocowboy on May 18, 2018, 11:42:28 AM
Thanks guys! At least I got in young, got 31 years in and can take my pretty decent health insurance.

My sister is a major officer for a company that owns 8 hospitals in the mid west,  totalling about 10,000 beds, and if she left tomorrow, after about 25 years,  she'd have NO health insurance from them. Way of the world.

The work world in the USA--really worldwide, has changed a lot in the last couple decades. Companies that used to offer good salaries, security, pensions and benefits, even the US post office, pay a lot of workers contract to contract, hourly w/o benefits.

There's still some good jobs out there--my son, a 20 y/o college junior, with dual computer science and math majors,  has an internship paying him $23 an hour and  they said if he works out (he's killin it there and says "It's fun!!") they'll start him around 80K, with great bennies next year, but that's unusual.

My wife, who's struggled with English, both spoken and in writing,  but kept self improving through classes and by working her way up in a few jobs,  is finally 'hitting her stride' and is a lot better in her work self confidence--although every company she's worked with loved her. She been cooridinating eCommerce for them and this week, after 5 years, they gave her the maximum pay raise they can, 7%, plus a bonus. 99% of staff got 2.5% She's still on a 401k matching retirement deal, but she has about 5 weeks a year vacation, which suits us well.

But I made sure as long as she's with me, she stands to inherit my pension. It costs me hundreds each month, (the pretty, much younger wife in the USA 'penalty', LOL) but if we split, my pension goes back up to it's max.

But the first 20, almost 25 work years for me were almost charmed, but it really went to hell. A lot of places have, between lawyers and efficiency 'System Analysts', sucking more work out of fewer people, making things paranoid and hellish. At one time, they had me color coding onto a special columned sheet with colored pencils, every activity I was doing every 15 minutes. (To think--- I almost pursued BOTH of those fields!)

Thankful again for my wife, who made it easier to not let it consume me, was understanding when it did anyway and when I was royally ticked off, got me to save some venomous emails in draft overnight, edit later or just plain outright delete them. Sort of a catharsis writing them, I guess. Plus she was able to sniff out some rat's at work that I didn't pick up on. A woman's intuition, I tell ya, boys.... ::)

I'll probably take at least 6 months or so off and then maybe do something part time. Something that I can take or leave. Gotta work out up my cardio, hang by the neighborhood pool, chill some for sure. The snakes I worked with (I already twice politely rejected their private lunch invitation this week) are making noises about maybe me coming back in some capacity in the future, .49% of the time.

But the blood's still wet from the holes in my back and just the thought it makes me think of Michael Corelone--"The Godfather,"---where he thinks he's out and legit--that he's DONE---and then he realizes otherwise, and Michael says:

"Just when I thought I was OUT--they pull me back in!!!"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-IkWpm7TS0
Holy cow! With your intellect and writing skill they had you color coding charts?! Sounds pretty hellish to me. Good riddance to those pricks....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 18, 2018, 12:59:50 PM
I've been in IT, specifically software development/engineering for about 20 years and for good college grads with Comp Sci or other related degrees, getting 70-80k is reasonable to expect if the grad has a decent head on their shoulders and knows how to work.  Sounds like your son is one of the good ones! 
My understanding is that the unemployment in IT as a whole is low which is likely helping drive up or keep up the reasonable salaries.  To be fair I've been slightly out of touch on the hiring side for a couple of years as I'm now a contractor for my previous employer in the States after moving to Panama. 


Anyway sounds like you're moving on to better things which I'm sure you'll enjoy more anyway.  If you work pt for your previous employer, definitely make it work your while with some consulting level rates.. there is an old legend, have no idea whether or not it's true and I don't even recall the names.. (sad I know), anyway, per Snopes one variation is Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford who was having some type of difficulty at his factory,  and Henry asked Tesla to help identify the problem area.  Ford asks him to send a bill and it arrives for $10,000.  Ford asked for the breakout and receives and invoice for $1 for marking the spot and 9,999 for knowing where to put it. :) (Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/know-where-man/))


Humorous even if not true I guess. nonetheless. 


Good luck with retirement. 

 

Thanks PaChris, M.C.!

Yea, my younger son seems to be hitting the ball at the right time. Although he's dual majoring in Computer Science, w/ an emphasis on Artifical Intelligence, with a second major in Advanced Math --he finds that Math 'fun'-- he's pretty much decided to go for his Masters, espec. because as without him applying, they already said they'd accept 12 of the 30 or so credits required for a Masters, taking them from 6000+ level courses he's already taking.

So playing the 'long game' probably makes sense. And a Masters differentiates him from a lot of folks. Told him to look into a T.A. (Teaching Assistant to Professor) position, as that'd probably (hopefully) cover most costs. A Master's D. would kick his starting pay straight out of school closer to 100K and the outfit he's with has over 40% of US retail using some form of their A.I. software. I never knew it's used for even small,outfits to figure details like how many gallons of milk to order in February, how many nails and roofing tiles in March, weather patterns and crop planning, how stocks might perform, on and on. I thought A.I. was all about when and where to drop 'THE bomb, LOL. They already have him teaching student classes for free, helping with Math mid terms.

Before the internship, he was working about 20 hours a week at the Olive Garden restaurant. He was elected vice president of the university  cyber security organization and a few other things, plays jazz gigs,  chess, tries not to let the babes consume TOO much of his time. Perhaps too much a fashionista, an afficiando of the 'finer things', but nonetheless ready to pull his own weight, like his older brother.

But what you said about Henry Ford piqued my interest. For a long time, my family was very involved in the automobile industry internationally. S. America, Europe, Asia etc. Personally, as a teen, I worked in the old Tarrytown, NY assembly line plant--then the oldest, most decrepit car plant in existence. It's a massive, toxic waste superfund site today. I never, ever mentioned my family being involved in operations. But we built 62 cars an hour, and I had 2, sometimes 3, spot welding guns to 'hit' on each car. Must have averaged 130 degrees and being 'relief' ---a floater they called me, I had the worst jobs on the hottest days.The UAW (Union) guy would call in for a few days,  go to his Dr. for free, get his narcotic Rx for free and wait the heat spell out, then come back and I'd get a new terrible, body wracking job. If you had to piss or crap on 'the line', it had to be on schedule.

I was a 'floater'-absentee relief on the 'jungle line'--the white metal, chassis and body assembly works and oh the horror, sparks, electric shocks, cuts, burns, workers sabotaging vehicles out of anger. The high up tree of the 'systems analysts' observing us monkeys on the floor below, always trying to bleed greater production ...I remember being pulled by union, non union forces, by the guys who ran the drug and gambling rackets inside that plant, all of them trying to get me to join in, with big promises.

But most of all, I remember the kind, old black guys telling me: "Quit this job before you get used to the money--I hate GM, my family hates GM, but I am a slave. Where else am I going to make this kind of money?--support my family as they're accustomed to? With my skills spot welding parts on cars? Useless.  I used to be a regular human before I came here, now every other word's a curse word, QUIT". 

Thank God I listened, because after I attempted a little, umm 'transaction' and was warned I was lucky they didn't break my arms or legs because it was THEIR action--- their 'territory/turf'. But the 'wiseguys' nonetheless took me in, cut me in, tending bar at a prime spot---right outside the main gate after my shift, making even more money, collecting bets on games, the horses. They realized I could record 'the action' booking it accurately. Plus, they 'loaned' me an old but mint, gold colored Oldsmobile 88 convertible coupe. Pimp City. That ride must've been 20 feet long. Man, I thought I was THE sh!t!

When I went to the latest Dearborn Michigan Plant, where the Ford F150 series is built, (best selling vehicle of ALL cars, trucks, vans, foreign and domestic, for over 40 years in a ROW) and saw how it was air conditioned and so clean you could eat off the floor, how workers could stop the line if there was a production error, I thought I was in a different galaxy.

But I met Henry Ford II (Hank the deuce) a couple times as a kid, hanging out in lovely vacation land, in swank Charlevoix, Michigan. He was a colorful guy, quite the ladies man. He made English King Henry the 8th look like a choir boy and was always the subject of multiple gossip columnists. Loved his drink. But a kid couldn't have met a nicer guy.

Dunno if it was a fight with a wife, or a drunk driving arrest, but his quote: "Never complain, never expain" is legend, adopted by royalty, politicians. I mean, why give them fodder? As we know now, they're gonna spin it, make it up like they want to anyways, no?

But Henry Ford, 'Hank's' grandfather, that embittered fellow was a trip. His first attempts at a car failed miserably. When he finally got his 1st one--his quadricycle, right, he was working at the Ecison plant, but when he prepared to take it out for it's 1st test drive, he realized he had to take a axe and bust out his shed's doorway. The door jamb. The 'car' was too big to get out of the house, LOL.

If you had a meal with Ford, and you salted your food before tasting it, he wouldn't hire you, thinking you were hasty. He helped a lot of African Americans, North and South, but had a livid hatred against Jewish people. Really anyone involved with finance. He was one salty prick himself in a lot of ways.

Ironically, I live not far from one of the Ford family's old winter homes. He built schools, homes, churches for blacks and whites alike around there. An old guy I knew, now long gone, used to as a kid, deliver milk to the local Ford Plantation Estate. He had to to push the old 'crank start' milk truck until it was out of ear shot of Mrs. Ford, then crank er up . She hated the sound of the old crank starters, LOL

But Ford, in a 'bromance' that pales Trump's crush on Putin, loved and supported Adolph Hitler ----even up to the late 1930's, he kept a picture of Hitler on his desk!!! Unreal, I know....

Ford had some great ideas, but largely was a success in spite of himself and during WWII and especially when his son Edsel died, the US govt was quite close to taking a near bankrupt Ford over to help keep the WWII and US security efforts viable. His insistence on "You can have that Model T in whatever color you want--as long as it's black"--although he belatedly did offer changes on the 'T'--it meanwhile gave other companies a competitive edge. He was a stubborn, paranoid coot, slow to innovate and it cost him.

About that time that Ford almost tanked, actually a wee but later, 1951, the USA govt gave a near dead post WWII Japanese company a little contract to build a few hundred prototype vehicles to replace the aging Willy's Jeep. Their prototype wasn't accepted, but the company was saved with that quick, temporary USA cash infusion.

You might've heard of them: TOYOTA...

But they kept that vehicle, (the design of which they basically copied from a modified Philippines Jeepney floated back to Japan) and morphed it into the FJ--Land Cruiser model, which exists still today, ladder frame and all, with much of it's orginal 'DNA' within.

Today a new version that gussied up old dinosaur, STARTS at a price of over $84,000. So I guess Toyota did succeed eventually. Oh, that's right, they're THE largest motor vehicle company on earth now, occasionally swapping 1st place with Volkswagon. (but keep an eye on Hyundai...)

Like so many quotes being orginally quoted to individuals,  Ford's are hard to pin down as being 'his'. So many great lInes (most) quoted from movies are wayyy off. Bogart never said 'Play it again, Sam', etc.  I have at the bottom of my posts, " Whether you think you can or can't, you're right!" --Great quote, no doubt, but it's origins go back probably thousands of years before Ford, to ancient India and are repeated in countless yoga studios.

As to: " If I asked them what they wanted, they would've said 'faster horses'" --great quote, that's a harder one to pin down. Maybe Ford did say it. But the gist of it--Don't worry, don't ask others,  just do it, are great.

If you want some great quote and have another ten minutes, look up Yogi Berra and Satchel Paiges'--great, funny as hell stuff...

Those quotes, especially on thinking you CAN, rather than fearing that you can't and creating self fulfilled prophecies, seem to fit the kind of mind set most guys here have, or SHOULD have...

https://www.successories.com/iquote/author/1428/yogi-berra-quotes/1

http://www.satchelpaige.com/quote2.html

Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on May 18, 2018, 03:42:36 PM
That one has got to be a record Robert.
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 18, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
That one has got to be a record Robert.

Just chilling at home, between the wife joining me for lunch, a load of laundry, some garden work, I left and came back and added a few times. On a rip I guess. Nothing on the news---they're just changing the names, faces and figures around. Recycling the same stories....
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: Elexpatriado on May 19, 2018, 04:25:13 PM
Just chilling at home, between the wife joining me for lunch, a load of laundry, some garden work, I left and came back and added a few times. On a rip I guess. Nothing on the news---they're just changing the names, faces and figures around. Recycling the same stories....


Cant wait until you are retired and have more time on your hands,


Maybe you should get together with you know who and write a novel.


I can supply a lot of the material, but it will be in third person....an Australian living in Manizales..kinda like Gabriel Garcia Marquez writes
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: robert angel on May 20, 2018, 01:05:41 PM

Cant wait until you are retired and have more time on your hands,


Maybe you should get together with you know who and write a novel.


I can supply a lot of the material, but it will be in third person....an Australian living in Manizales..kinda like Gabriel Garcia Marquez writes

I could probably crib together enough stuff from my posts here to at least launch an Internet available book. Besides needing more humor, (and while there WAS a lot of funny stuff, humor's never been too 'big' around here) if I got into the names and faces I met as a kid during the late 60's and seventies, many who were radical political people, folks who went from being pariahs, from being repeatedly arrested, having their skull's busted by the cops, to being vindicated and eventually becoming prominent judges and politicians themselves--that might be interesting.

All the while, although I'd never have admitted it, they, with their middle fingers raised, served as role models to me as 'people on the edge'. And they knew how to party too. Maybe how I saw them transform without abandoning their past, might be interesting too. I guess they gave me hope that I could be a wild man and still possibly make it in society too. Not that I ever cared much about conforming, but they proved to me that options were available in life.

While name dropping there, add the NYC-Greenwich Village period of my high school, early college years, how we used to have crash pad in 'The Village'--the rock n roll, punk rock period--that was also some wild stuff at the time, w/ Lou Reed, Iggy, Bowie, The Ramones, Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, Black Flag etc--all the sex and more drugs than Pfizer....

So the NYC years,  the few years we escaped to the Virgin Islands, then back to the states, the Detroit years, decades of craziness in Key West before the DEA radar blimps, all the while getting kicked out of every school from K-12th grade--even from a Canadian Boarding School (to escape USA legal system) a school where the priests promised my family (and court) to reform me: "We don't expell ANYONE, we CHANGE them"

The 'good fathers', --the priests, most of them drunks who relished in beating me, expelled me within six months, for giving drugs to Canadian citizens (even a little international crisis works wonders sometimes) and for escaping at night to hotwire cars for joy rides and drinking binges. Man, those Canadians make a great brew! I just couldn't resist. And those good Canadian girls were soooo cute too, without the 'edginess' of the Detroit chicks.

Then, before and after, the other illegal shenanagins (now that the legal statute of limitations has expired and the money's gone) the women, booze, rackets and more drugs, a couple fortunes made and pissed away, the highs, lows and narrow escapes, the friends who weren't as lucky. Guys I never ratted out. Then, my eventually actually cleaning up and settling down a bit, to the surprise of everyone who knew me.

Nobody thought I'd see age 21. Or thirty, forty. And I didn't care. Nobody imagined I could pass an academic class until I actually did so in college, where my partying accelerated, but I wanted to stay in school and getting good grades not only necessary,  but also sort of like me flipping off all the people predicting my early demise. But as long as I was alive and had still had some money, I partied like like there was no tomorrow, figuring "No Problemo!!"

I love Jimmy Buffett's style, his music. How he still doesn't take himself too seriously. I remember him playing in flip flops, guitar case open in front of him on Duvall St., busking for loose change. But I think about his great song: " A Pirate looks at Forty" and think, damn, I still had the main sail full open, with the jib ripping into it--all in a gale at age 40! And spitting into the wind, like a damn fool, LOL.

Maybe that's why Jimmy's worth about 600 million bucks today and I need to look at my bank statement once a month, LOL.

But sometimes we don't realize 'luck' when it comes and believe you and me, it comes and it goes. And to an extent, you 'make' your own luck, just like you dig the very holes you end up in, sometimes repeatedly.

I didn't know what I had a number of times, but looking back, I can see it more clearly. I'm aware that right about now, how I'm lucky to be here. I haven't even totalled a car in a few years, which in and of itself, is a new personal record for me. I dare say, a Porsche Turbo S is on my bucket list, as I actually realize I have limitations I can accept nowadays, and that includes the PTS's zero to 60 MPH in 2.4 seconds and quarter miles in the low tens. I'll probably even remember to wear a seatbelt for a change.

But what'd maybe be interesting to the broader audience is what made me so damn crazy. Still trying to figure that out, actually. While I was basically a wild child already, being caught up in a hurricaine of an 'upbringing' --those always changing winds blew me around, every which way. Nobody, not my family, teachers, shrinks, law enforcement etc, could tell me jack sh!-t. Up was down, right was left and I trusted nobody. I went my own way, usually contradictory to the norm.

I had to come to my own reckoning, to crash and burn a few times both literally and figuratively, but somehow living to walk away and eventually believe those who told me, looking at the wreckage: "I can't BELIEVE you lived through that"--- I'm just very fortunate to have survived to this point!

They say we each have a book in us, so who the hell knows?
Title: Re: How to deflect the skeptics?
Post by: pachris on May 21, 2018, 09:58:10 PM
Robert,
  I enjoyed your response and the humor in the quotes and those that have truth in them as well. Sounds like you've led a very interesting life and while I'm new to the board have enjoyed reading through a number of your thought provoking responses.


All the best to your family and your sons (hope I read that right).  I'm in my mid-40's and trying to decide if I want to put the time in to either go back to school for AI or just take what I know and work myself in laterally.  I have some other interests as well that are tickling my fancy so I may be picking up some of those as well.


I've led a much less adventurous life in many regards, though I did move my family to Panama about 2 years back because I wanted something different.


CH