Riots in the streets 2008-2013 style.

[fathertime]

     I recently read a short piece about how the upcoming 'riots' are occuring.  I agree with the piece.

     When enough people drop out of the system it is no longer a system and my belief has been and continues to be the ‘system’ we have lived under is in the process of a complete collapse.  Just amongst the people I come in contact with, more and more of them are just not paying their bills, credit cards, mortgages, hospital stays, anything that involves credit is not safe anymore. Much of our system relies on credit and these are regular middle class folks.

 The economy is still losing jobs, and govt. officials are now admitting the old job figures we got were wrong (intentionally falsified) and the reality was about 2million jobs worse, that is NOT a small number.  One question about that though.  If the govt is now admitting that 2million less jobs were created in the prior 12 month period, why did this new revised FACT not factor into the current unemployment number?  I mean does anybody REALLY believe that unemployment is 9.6%?    Moving on, some say that we aren’t losing AS MANY jobs, that is true, but if we were losing jobs at 600k a month, there would be no jobs left at all in a short time.   There just isn’t that many overall jobs to losing that sort of number month after month, and year after year. 

     If people can’t afford health insurance they get on a govt/state plan, or they simply show up at the hospital and demand treatment (which they get) on everybody else’s nickel.  I have even heard of a middle class ‘man’ that brought his foreign brides over and then PLANNED on dumping her on the hospital system if she became ill, because there is little consequence to doing this (except substandard medical care for her).  That is a soft form of rebellion/lawlessness, regardless of any trivial justification that this person dredges up.  The lawlessness is running wild and it is the middle class that is leading the way.  It may look a little different, but it continues to up steam Will it lead directly/indirectly to riots in the streets?  Once the lower classes begin to suffer greatly,  (and some trigger occurs) then we may see traditional rioting.  Interestingly the food stamp program (43million people and growing) and the govt. health care program, may mitigate some of the discontent in the short term.  I can’t help but think that there are people in smoke-filled rooms that have everything plotted out.    I’m not entirely clear on what these people's intentions are though, things were rolling along pretty well in this country for a long time before say 1999 or so.  We all best prepare.

Well anyway, these are my thoughts and her is the link to the aforementioned article
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gonzalo-lira-coming-middle-class-anarchy

Fathertime!

[no comment]

We all best prepare./quote]
What did you have in mind... bomb shelters, stock up on ammo, store canned food and water? BTW, if one is trying to save space in the bomb shelter, stock up on de-hydrated water.

I think it's more likely that we're in for a long economic malaise like Japan has experienced for over a decade.  It seems that that country hasn't figured out how to deal with the current reality and just applies old methods like Keynsian deficit spending and this country is following the same path. 

There have been riots in Europe in Greece and France by those groups that have been asked to do with less.  In France they're throwing a fit over raising the retirement age, I think from 60 to 62.  In general it's over a scale back of generous entitlement programs.  Take candy from a baby and the baby will throw a fit.

Meanwhile, in this country we're expanding entitlement programs. That's exactly why California is flirting with bankruptcy and it's why General Motors had to get bailed out. 

FT, hopefully you can stop reading the gloom & doom on the internet and enjoy your moment with the new wife and FT junior.

[Dave H]

Hmmm...Riots again? It must be time for the rest of us to upgrade our home electronics and wardrobes!  "The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy"...count me in!

[william3rd]

We need more bread and circuses. If it worked for Rome, it will work for us on the short run.

[fathertime]

We all best prepare./quote]
What did you have in mind... bomb shelters, stock up on ammo, store canned food and water? BTW, if one is trying to save space in the bomb shelter, stock up on de-hydrated water.

I think it's more likely that we're in for a long economic malaise like Japan has experienced for over a decade.  It seems that that country hasn't figured out how to deal with the current reality and just applies old methods like Keynsian deficit spending and this country is following the same path. 

There have been riots in Europe in Greece and France by those groups that have been asked to do with less.  In France they're throwing a fit over raising the retirement age, I think from 60 to 62.  In general it's over a scale back of generous entitlement programs.  Take candy from a baby and the baby will throw a fit.

Meanwhile, in this country we're expanding entitlement programs. That's exactly why California is flirting with bankruptcy and it's why General Motors had to get bailed out. 

FT, hopefully you can stop reading the gloom & doom on the internet and enjoy your moment with the new wife and FT junior.

NC I have a morbid fascination with gloom and doom in society, so don't make the mistake of thinking it takes away from life's enjoyment!
I think we would be VERY lucky if it was a Japan style malaise that we suffer.  Japan was a homogenous peaceful society before their problems.  Before our problems we were already a fairly violent, aggressive bunch.
You of all people NC know how to prepare for what is coming, so yes stock up on dehydrated water and don't forget if need be you can dilute it further, and a few gallons of 'bottled air'.  Best of luck,
Fathertime!

[Alabamaboy!]

This economy is doomed. And it is more and more evident every month. They can make the reports say whatever they want, but the fact is that more and more businesses are closing all over Arizona, Nevada, California, Pennsylvania that I have personally seen. This thing is getting worse, instead of better.

Probably most States are already bankrupt and predicting widening shortfalls in the upcoming year.

People are getting health care benefits cut, less money for police, etc.

The only "safe" jobs were government related and military. But with no tax money, they will be the next to go. So get ready, it is going to be a bumpy ride.

I would like to start a business that provides cutting edge military style personal defense services. I could employ all those unemployed or retired military folk. There services would be highly sought after by those few that still have their fortunes after the sheet hits the fan when the economy tanks even more.

NO jobs, hope for jobs, high debt to the Chinese, huge deficits, inefficient government, no way to get home loans anymore, banks hording money, businesses contracting or closing, less tax revenues. Nobody wanting to invest in us anymore. Looks bad.

[robert angel]

They've been talking about pushing back social security retirement even further and they announced today that for the second year in a row, for the first time since the 1970's, they won't raise social security payments a cent this year.

The system isn't just broke, it's broken. We're admittedly a debtor nation that doesn't reveal, as once was required by law, how much money it prints.

Data-'figures' the govt. releases are as reliable as putting dice in Yahtzee cups, throwing them on Ouiji boards and divining the results they want. Financial markets are often based on accounting  that's either  horribly out dated and used to deceive or 'new and creative', basing values on 'predictions'.

Teachers haven't in most places, seen a raise in five years, while health and other costs have gone up, along with class sizes.

Unemployment figures the govt. releases are inherently wrong, if for no other reason as they count just the people currently receiving unemployment 'benefits'--not those who's benefits ran out, those who gave up looking or are under employed or those working at best, 2 or 3 menial, minimum paying jobs.

Riots are nothing new--we've had hundreds of them, of varying degree and significance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

I remember the 1960's 'race riots' which as I recall, mostly happened not too long after President L.B. Johnson declared the USA's "War on Poverty". I remember as a young child, walking up to Army tanks in residential areas, with Army troops in flak vests, with automatic weapons, I remember them giving me MRE's (Meals ready too eat) and me picking up military and civilian bullet casings out of the street and using them as whistles.


It seems to me that racial relations today are better in cities that did have major race riots back then, where whole neighborhoods ( usually the black's) were looted and burned. In those cities, I believe that something of a catharsis occurred and they got a lot of bad blood out of their systems , although racism is still very real in most places--it's just more polarized in nature in places like where I live--more 'quiet' and I sometimes wish we'd burned the whole place down and started fresh.

I don't expect the current administration to significantly change the tax rate that really favors the very rich and I wonder what that'll do the the national 'temper'.

I don't make six figures of income, but on a good month, I get extra work, only to see 41% to almost 42% going towards taxes and other deductions. Somehow, I don't think most millionaires pay that high a percentage and I think the idea that if you make taxing the very wealthy minimal--that it will 'trickle down' and create jobs, has been proven wrong.

So what's it going to take to get to the boiling point where people start rioting? I am starting to not trust my bank savings, future pension  funds or so called 'retirement accounts' as being there for us down the line...

[Bob_S]

What did you have in mind... bomb shelters, stock up on ammo, store canned food and water? BTW, if one is trying to save space in the bomb shelter, stock up on de-hydrated water.

For those of us who live in disaster-prone areas, that's generally a good idea even if the economy wasn't in free-fall.  What's the potential mega-disaster for your area?  For us in the So Cal region, it's the Big One, the 7.0-9.0 we're expecting to hit the metropolitan area.  When (not "if") it hits, we have a backpack kept near our front door with supplies such as 1st aid stuff, a little cash, bottled water and canned food we can grab as we head out of the condo before it collapses.  If it happens while I'm at the office, I have a backpack in a bottom drawer with the same stuff.  Assuming I'm not killed when the office caves in on me, and if the bridges all collapse like they did in '94, closing all the freeways, I can hoof it home the 20-odd miles.
And the usual ne'er-do-wells who expect government handouts and didn't prepare will come looking for goodies from those who did prepare.  So the looting and rioting will begin within minutes of the shaking subsiding.  If you don't have those shotgun shells to defend your family's meager supplies of Chef Boyardees and Aquafina, you better have an exit strategy for getting out of populated centers PDQ.  And I wouldn't trust the freeways (that are still standing) that'll be crawling along at 60 yards per hour (remember the gawdawful mess of the evacuation of Galveston).
I'm guessin' Robert lives in a hurricane zone where emergency supplies might include an inflatable raft.  If you're in Tornado Alley, that bomb shelter would be a good idea when the eventual F5 comes roaring into your neighborhood.

[piglett]

What really burns me is the so called stimulus was going to create soooooo many shovel ready jobs.
BULL SH*T my understanding is that much of that cash is still in a slush fund

if either group of thieving bums in Washington really wanted to create jobs how about dumping 500 billion into our old worn out broken down bridges? my understanding is many bridges in this country only have a few years left, after that they are considered at the end of their useable life.

let me see we could build 5,000 new bridges at 100 million each ......did i do that math rite??
how many new jobs would construction company's create?
i guess that would buy a "boat load" of new heavy equipment
also a whole bunch of new pickup trucks would be sold
the concrete company's would sure be happy
also the black top company's would do rather well
so how high would unemployment be ?
i think the lowest it ever goes is about 4%
so lets call that zero.....rite?
so anyone that wanted a job would have no problem at all getting one.
AND they would be good paying jobs, would $18 an hour be fair to start off some Young guy? i would say so.


so i said all that to say this what kind of situation will you & your family be in if people in this country really start to grow "a set" & they throw ALL of those worthless bums out on their ears in DC.
things mite be a bit rough for a while for most of us but in the end i just don't see we have anyother choice.


pig    

[Jedironin]

Bob- good points all! I do live at the end of Tornado Alley in SW Ohio. Xenia is 20 minutes away and has been hit HARD 3 times! I have a kit similar to yours (including shotgun).

Piglett... you're making sense again. Stop it or you might get elected somewhere. 

[Jeff S]

Yeah - those dirty rat-father-unknown rich folks, those making over $60K a year, living inthe lap of luxury with their jet airplanes and rolls royces, sipping on single malt scotch at the country clubs, plotting how to steal more of their filthy lucre from the sweat of the worker's brow....

Truth is, those rich folks are paying a LOT more than the regular Joes, Robert.

Who pays taxes... (2007 - it is even more slanted today)

Top 1% - $410,096 Income - 40.42% of the taxes

Top 5% - $160,041 Income - 60.63% of the taxes

Top 10% - $113,018 Income - 71.22% of the taxes

Top 25% - $66,532 - 86.59% of the taxes

Top 50% - $32,879 - 97.11% of the taxes

Bottom 50% - <$32,879 - 2.89% of the taxes

So if you make more than 66K - YOU are the wealthy the rest of us need to put a boot on your neck to pony up YOUR fair share.

Every night, ten men met at a restaurant for dinner. At the end of the meal, the bill would arrive. They owed $100 for the food that they shared. Every night they lined up in the same order at the cash register. The first four men paid nothing at all. The fifth, though he grumbled about the unfairness of the situation, paid $1. The sixth man, feeling generous, paid $3. The next three men paid $7, $12, and $18, respectively. The last man was required to pay the remaining balance of $59.
The ten men were quite settled into their routine when the restaurant threw them into chaos. It announced that it was cutting its prices: Now it would charge only $80 for dinner for the ten men. This reduction wouldn't affect the first four men — they would continue to eat for free. The fifth person decided to forgo his $1 contribution to the pool, and the sixth contributed $2. The seventh man deducted $2 from his usual payment and now paid $5. The eighth man paid $9, the ninth, $12, leaving the last man with a bill of $52. Outside of the restaurant, the men compared their savings, and angry outbursts began to erupt. The sixth man yelled, "I got only $1 out of the total reduction of $20, and he" — pointing to the last man — "got $7." The fifth man joined in the protest. "Yeah! I got only $1 too. It is unfair that he got seven times more than me." The seventh man cried, "Why should he get a $7 reduction when I got only $2?" The first four men followed the lead of the others: "We didn't get any of the $20 reduction. Where is our share?"

The nine men formed an outraged mob, surrounding the tenth man. The nine angry men carried the tenth man up to the top of a hill and lynched him. The next night, the nine remaining men met at the restaurant for dinner. But when the bill came, there was no one to pay it.

William F. Buckley

[fathertime]

For those of us who live in disaster-prone areas, that's generally a good idea even if the economy wasn't in free-fall.  What's the potential mega-disaster for your area?  For us in the So Cal region, it's the Big One, the 7.0-9.0 we're expecting to hit the metropolitan area.  When (not "if") it hits, we have a backpack kept near our front door with supplies such as 1st aid stuff, a little cash, bottled water and canned food we can grab as we head out of the condo before it collapses.  If it happens while I'm at the office, I have a backpack in a bottom drawer with the same stuff.  Assuming I'm not killed when the office caves in on me, and if the bridges all collapse like they did in '94, closing all the freeways, I can hoof it home the 20-odd miles.

You know if/when a major natural disaster hits us here in the LA area, I would totally be prepared for an absolute disaster after the disaster.  With all the racial divisions and gangs here, I am pretty darn certain that we would see the worst of society at large.  We are all vulnerable.  I have a good supply of food/water and weaponry for home protection but among other things a fire would wipe me and my family out and we could see rampant arson and natural gas fires in an 'all hell breaks loose' scenario.  I guess I should just be happy if my family and I survive an 8.0 earthquake, anything after that is a bonus, because 1000's wouldn't survive! 

Fathertime!

[no comment]

This economy is doomed. And it is more and more evident every month. They can make the reports say whatever they want, but the fact is that more and more businesses are closing all over Arizona, Nevada, California, Pennsylvania that I have personally seen. This thing is getting worse, instead of better.

NO jobs, hope for jobs, high debt to the Chinese, huge deficits, inefficient government, no way to get home loans anymore, banks hording money, businesses contracting or closing, less tax revenues. Nobody wanting to invest in us anymore. Looks bad.

Could be that there is investment capital sitting on the sidelines but investors are waiting out the current administration.  Many feared that the country's best days were behind it during the Carter administration but the country made a comeback.

[Alabamaboy!]

Some very simple ways to balance the budget:

1. Move social security age to 70.

2. Slash about 1/3 of the defense budget. Use more drones, less conventional weaponry. Get rid of the Navy. The pirates of Somalia do as they please anyway. We are too much of nice guys to take them out. So do everything with drones and missles.

3. Raise taxes on those who make more than $500K per year. If they don't like it, tell them to go somewhere else to live and work. See if they can make that much money working in Peru or Colombia.

4. Drill for oil in Alaska or wherever. If the treehuggers don't like it tell them to leave too. We can shut off the spigot when we balance the budget. The pipelines and refineries will generate lots of jobs.

5. Develop green energy source to make us completely independent from terrorist countries like Saudi Arabia (land of the 9/11 guys), Venezuela, etc. When the cash dries up, then they don't have much money to buy guns and missles anymore. They will be worried about buying food and water. Saves us in military spending, bribes to countries such as Pakistan, and gives us something that we can "make" here in the US and export to other countries.

6. Slash payments to health care providers by 33% across the board. If they don't like it, they can retire too. There are plenty of physicians from India or where ever who will work for that rate. If we there are problems with a shortage at first, relax immigration to allow them in. It will only be temoporary because the American trained folks will soon realize that there is no place on earth which can afford the salaries they previously were making and will accept the cuts.

Those are some tough cuts, but hey, we gotta do something. Or are we going to be China's bitch forever?

[Jedironin]

AB- I don't even know where to start...   

1. Raise SS to 70: I don't plan on seeing any of that money ever again anyway, so this doesn't really matter to me.

2. Get rid of the Navy.   ARE YOU SERIOUS?!  If you think all our Navy does is chase pirates off Somalia, you have no clue what they do. I suggest you do a LOT of reading and catch up on everything our Navy does. They are a VITAL part of our National Defense, Global Defense, Disaster Relief and many other duties!!

3. Many of those who make over $500k per year are the business owners. You want them to move out of the US and take their companies and employees with them??

... I don't have the time right now to respond to the rest...

[piglett]

AB- I don't even know where to start...   

3. Many of those who make over $500k per year are the business owners. You want them to move out of the US and take their companies and employees with them??

EXACTLY most of them employ a bunch of people
do you really think that they would never load up all their sh*t into shipping containers & move that factory or what ever it is that they have to another country that will give them a sweet heart deal THINK AGAIN!!!

if we were to take 100% of the income from the people that make 1 million a year or more (YES 100%) we could run this 7 trillion headed hydra that they call the US government for about 3 days

there are just soooooo many more family's that make $100,000 , $300,000 etc
you know doctors & professional types , how hard do we want screw them over?

pig

[Alabamaboy!]

I did not suggest these things would be easy. But yeah, I think the Navy is obsolete given the amount of firepower that we can provide with drones, unmanned missiles etc. The defense budget is enormous. I think it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy higher than China's. And everyone else. We don't have the money for it dude. I would like to have a bazooka, or a team of armed guards in my home for maximize security, but I cannot afford it. So I don't borrow money from the Chinese to buy it like we are doing with the military.

About the rich leaving??? Are you serious? Where are they going to go? Mexico? Colombia? I doubt it. These other countries are in turmoil as well. And they are not going to leave their families and friends to set up shop elsewhere. So if their "take home pay" drops from $100 million to $80 million, do you think they are going to bolt?? How greedy would they have to be to not be able to survive on that much? Even if it was from $500K to $400K? Where is a doctor or professional going to go in the world to make that kind of cash? Nowhere. If you are a surgeon in France, Colombia, Mexico, you would probably make 1/2 that much. Our salaries and compensation are wayyyyyyyyyy out of line with the rest of the world anyway. Garbage men and firefighters here making 6 digits at times? That is obscene.

This would affect me too. But I am not so greedy that I am going to saddle future generations with debt to the nice Chinese folk because I am so gutless to balance the budget.

[Alabamaboy!]

OK Piglett, let's make it $400K and above. If they got knocked down to $300K and could not make ends meet, tough cookies. I would rather have some rich people mad at me for awhile than jeopardizing our whole existence as a country by borrowing bushels of cash from the Chinese.

And face it, on the world market, a stockbroker or doctor from the US is super overpaid, so they would not be able to just pick up and leave. If they retire early, cool. They will be replaced with much cheaper alternatives. And could be paid at $300K instead of $400K

[Alabamaboy!]

All of this stuff with the taxes can be temporary until the budget is balanced. But it has to stay balanced because the Chinese got us by the balls right not. Even the terrorists, they are laughing their asses off because we are heading the same way as the Soviet Union. And Osama Bin Laden even said he was going to do it this way....bleed us dry economically over time. And he is doing a damn good job of it.

[Alabamaboy!]

Watch how fast there will be a complete overhaul of the political system if the rich get taxed and we have to actually live within our means.

I guarantee you that the waste will be chopped out of the budget within 5 years if the rich start really feeling the pinch.

[Alabamaboy!]

The $100K garbage collector would make about $4K in Colombia with a cost of living not much cheaper than here for equal quality.

But the $100K garbage collector is not going to go out and make anything happen. He is too busy working. But if you tax the rich who just are hanging out poolside or watching CNN Business all day, you can bet things will get ship shape in a hurry.

The problem with this administration is that the rich are not suffering any real consequences. Sure there bank accounts are going down a bit, but the stock market is booming, or they just move their money into gold. They are certainly not losing houses, jobs, or having their whole lives destroyed.

Make them suffer like the common folk.

Feel the burn!

[Researcher]

      No doubt there are problems but it is mostly due to the fact that the world is changing.Although there is corruption and our government doesn't know what to do globalization is affecting all countries.Some in good ways and others in negative ways.I have heard the term "a race to the bottom" where developed countries will lose out while emerging market countries will benefit.The US is in a downward spiral and has been for a while.We are not the producers of products for the world anymore because many manufacturing jobs have left.The manufacturing base has shrank and there aren't any self sustaining(for our economy) jobs to replace them.Alot of other jobs depended on them and now they are feeling the effect.IMHO, its not companies or the government that are at fault it is just the way things are going.I will admit the government isn't doing much to help the transition but they are probably in denial of the situation.As we move into being poorer it wouldn't surprise me to see some riots here and there.I kind of like the idea of "credit anarchy" but who knows where we will end up.When we get to where we are going credit might be a good thing to have.Until then I am just taking it as it comes.


    Researcher

[jm21-2]

Some very simple ways to balance the budget:

1. Move social security age to 70.

2. Slash about 1/3 of the defense budget. Use more drones, less conventional weaponry. Get rid of the Navy. The pirates of Somalia do as they please anyway. We are too much of nice guys to take them out. So do everything with drones and missles.

3. Raise taxes on those who make more than $500K per year. If they don't like it, tell them to go somewhere else to live and work. See if they can make that much money working in Peru or Colombia.

4. Drill for oil in Alaska or wherever. If the treehuggers don't like it tell them to leave too. We can shut off the spigot when we balance the budget. The pipelines and refineries will generate lots of jobs.

5. Develop green energy source to make us completely independent from terrorist countries like Saudi Arabia (land of the 9/11 guys), Venezuela, etc. When the cash dries up, then they don't have much money to buy guns and missles anymore. They will be worried about buying food and water. Saves us in military spending, bribes to countries such as Pakistan, and gives us something that we can "make" here in the US and export to other countries.

6. Slash payments to health care providers by 33% across the board. If they don't like it, they can retire too. There are plenty of physicians from India or where ever who will work for that rate. If we there are problems with a shortage at first, relax immigration to allow them in. It will only be temoporary because the American trained folks will soon realize that there is no place on earth which can afford the salaries they previously were making and will accept the cuts.

Those are some tough cuts, but hey, we gotta do something. Or are we going to be China's bitch forever?

Are you serious about some of that?

3. As Jeff S pointed out, rich people pay almost all the taxes in the US. Almost 50% of Americans don't even pay taxes. I shudder at the amount of taxes I have to pay and I'm doing everything I can to keep my tax burden low (oh and there are a lot of ways when you're self-employed....). Rich people have plenty of other places to go. If you're talking about the people who earn $500k+ a lot of them are going to be business people who could earn just as much in China or other Asian countries.

5. We import very little oil from terrorist countries. And even if we dropped our imports from them to 0 they'd just sell it to another country and we'd probably buy it from them. Energy independence has been a political slogan for decades and it's never going to happen with a global economy. And we wouldn't want to be energy independent anyways. It's better for the economy to be open to the world market.

6. Price caps on health care? I bet that would work just as well as rent controls in fixing problems. Yeah...and you're assuming that physicians are the problem which is probably not the case.

[fathertime]

  About the rich leaving??? Are you serious? Where are they going to go? Mexico? Colombia? I doubt it. These other countries are in turmoil as well. And they are not going to leave their families and friends to set up shop elsewhere. So if their "take home pay" drops from $100 million to $80 million, do you think they are going to bolt?? How greedy would they have to be to not be able to survive on that much? Even if it was from $500K to $400K? Where is a doctor or professional going to go in the world to make that kind of cash? Nowhere. If you are a surgeon in France, Colombia, Mexico, you would probably make 1/2 that much. Our salaries and compensation are wayyyyyyyyyy out of line with the rest of the world anyway. Garbage men and firefighters here making 6 digits at times? That is obscene.

Although I like your anger, I disagree wholeheartly with suddenly taxing the bejesus out of the rich.  If I were a man who had several million in the bank (rich), and I felt I was being unfairly treated, I would not want to play the game any longer.  What is the incentive to work when a man already has enough to last potentially a lifetime, in China, the Phillipeans, Colombia, Germany, Hawaii?  It would be very easy for me, and I imagine quite a few of the very rich to sell their assets, pack up their duds and scoot on out of here. 
In addition to this factor, I don't like that the govt. would just come in and essentially seize a rich family's hard earned money, by way of more taxes. The doer's of our society SHOULD be rewarded with a reasonable tax rate, not gouged with taxes that they can't do anything about.  Although I may never be in this financial category, it goes against my instinct of freedom. Lately a lot that has been going on in the USA goes against that instinctual freedom that I hold dearly. 
AB, my impression is that you are not too big on reading books, but a book was suggested to me on these forums a few years back, it's name is ATLAS SHRUGGED, by AYN RAND, you may have read it in college/highschool.  It is a masterpiece, considering using that 'stack of pillows' to prop your feet up and take a break and enjoy!

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

Unemployment figures the govt. releases are inherently wrong, if for no other reason as they count just the people currently receiving unemployment 'benefits'--not those who's benefits ran out, those who gave up looking or are under employed or those working at best, 2 or 3 menial, minimum paying jobs.

Hey Robert!
 

I agree with much of what you say, although I would like to point out that the govt. actually determines unemployment a different way than what you think.  They do a survey of 60,000 households each month to get their number.  They rotate out 25% of the household each month and bring in new ones.  I don't know about anybody else but I've never heard of any of my friends, acquaintances, family, EVER being surveyed, so I'm a little skeptical of the whole thing.  Has anybody here ever been surveyed by the govt for this specifically?
Anywhoo, here is the link Robert and you can see for yourself.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
Fathertime!