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Latin International Dating Forums => Latin -> General discussion => Topic started by: robert angel on August 04, 2018, 06:55:13 PM

Title: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 04, 2018, 06:55:13 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/Venezuela

Rated most dangerous country in the world two years in a row, inflation running over 40,000 percent a year and apparently maduro survived an assassination attempt involving drones that halted a national broadcast an hour or so ago. Guess he rigged the election pretty effectively, but the attempt sent the military standing alongside him during his speech---really his ongoing 'dog and pony show'--running like rats.

Can't figure out why, but apparently even increasing oil prices are actually bad for the nation's situation. Meanwhile, basic food stuffs, including for babies, other products and medicine, are in critically short supply.

You can't make sh!t like this up.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 05, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
And now, according to the BBC News, maduro's accusing Colombia, more specifically Colombian President Santos, of sending the explosive carrying drones at him, his wife, the military and other govt lackies all standing along side him.

The footage of it, the military parade's precision all falling apart as they scatter, abandoning him, is yet another sign of what's yet to come....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Calipro on August 06, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
And now, according to the BBC News, maduro's accusing Colombia, more specifically Colombian President Santos, of sending the explosive carrying drones at him, his wife, the military and other govt lackies all standing along side him.

The footage of it, the military parade's precision all falling apart as they scatter, abandoning him, is yet another sign of what's yet to come....


I think Colombia should respond by not letting anymore starving Venezuelans into the country.


It does amaze me that there doesn't seem to be any push back by the average colombian about all the homeless destitute venezuelans on their streets.



The only Colombians willing to fight for their country are the Colombian prostitutes that regularly get in knife fights with the newly arriving Venezuelan prostitutes because they are selling their asses for half price.


In the unlikely event of an armed conflict between Colombian and Venezuela ....the US government would definitely back Colombia....but who would back Venezuela? Russia?  ::)
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on August 06, 2018, 02:15:16 PM
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: benjio on August 06, 2018, 02:57:50 PM
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.


I've heard this viewpoint as well....that they consider themselves one people. Even before Venezuela's economic breakdown I met so many people from there along the coast of Colombia the two countries might as well have been states of the same nation.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: mudd on August 06, 2018, 03:40:34 PM

I've heard this viewpoint as well....that they consider themselves one people. Even before Venezuela's economic breakdown I met so many people from there along the coast of Colombia the two countries might as well have been states of the same nation.


the Colombians that i know that are dealing with people of venezuela entering coombia and taking a few jobs, and hired some. its about 50-50 split.  some want them gone and say " they are taking jobs and driving down wages, other 50 say they are much better workers than Colombians.


either way, venezuela is a mess, and until Maduro is gone, it will keep going down the toilet.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on August 06, 2018, 04:20:09 PM
In Anzoatugui State, increase in street crime and night burglaries but at least the daylight looting has stopped for a while. Of course everyone is suspicious of the Cuban contingent that the federal government has brought in by the hundreds. Who knows what their real purpose is for being in the Venezuelan eastern states.

At least supplies from family relatives that have emigrated early have been sending back necessaries and food by boat and then through customs, the slowest but the cheapest way to supplement family members that have the bad luck of not being able to leave for various reasons.  Eastern state Venezuelans have been looking for work in Brazil and even as far as Peru, especially the metropolitan area of Lima.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 06, 2018, 05:13:04 PM
My wife does not see Venezuelans as "foreigners". I don't know whether this is true for most Colombians as well. She sees them as a sister country that shares much in common with Colombia that has gone seriously astray. She has the same POV towards Panama. I think all of them were part of Gran Colombia back in the day.


The first president of Venezuela, albeit for less than a year before his untimely death, Simon Bolivar had a profound impact on the above mentioned countries, as well as upon others in South and Central America. His life, as well as his family's , is an amazing story. As with most people who lead complex lives, he and his legacy is not without controversy, but his impact and influences even extended to and from, Europe and the emerging United States of America.

Incredible figure in history who died far too young. A Militaristic figure who felt the mindset of Venezuela and surrounding areas/nations were best governed accodingly, he was nonetheless antislavery. History tends to indicate he was largely a champion of human rights, even though he came from a family  representing a long line of wealth and aristocracy.

Again, an Incredible figure. A world changer.
.
"Simón José Antonio de la Santísima Trinidad Bolívar Palacios Ponte y Blanco[1] (Spanish: [siˈmon boˈliβar] (About this sound listen);[2] 24 July 1783 – 17 December 1830), generally known as Simón Bolívar and also colloquially as El Libertador,[3] was a Venezuelan military and political leader who played a leading role in the establishment of Venezuela, Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, and Panama as sovereign states, independent of Spanish rule."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simón_Bolívar
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Ricardo1 on August 06, 2018, 07:05:03 PM
https://monthlyreview.org/2018/06/01/the-politics-of-food-in-venezuela/ (https://monthlyreview.org/2018/06/01/the-politics-of-food-in-venezuela/)




quote:
Conclusion[/color]The situation confronting Venezuela today is far more complex than that portrayed in the dominant narrative, and it demands more thorough analysis. Through the lens of food and a focus on questions of power related to race, class, gender, and geography, new elements emerge that are key to understanding the present conjuncture. These include (1) food as a vehicle for social differentiation over time, most fundamentally in the creation and maintenance of an elite, an elite-aligned middle class, and a class of “others”; (2) the concentration and consolidation of power in the agrifood system, maintained through elite alliances, both within and outside of the state structure, and through both overt and hidden forms of power; (3) increasing homogenization, uniformity, and controllability of the agrifood system, from production and importation to consumption, through highly racialized notions of science and modernity; (4) marketing strategies that forge intimate relationships with the public so that specific industrially processed foods pervade everyday life; (5) dependency on monopolized supply channels and on supermarkets for access to such products; (6) the disappearance of such products, constituting an attack on everyday life, particularly that of the “others,” especially women; (7) the implication of the state in the products’ disappearance, while the role of private capital remains largely hidden; (8) the attempted consolidation of power by the elite through proposals for the restoration of the missing products (and of “order” more generally), in opposition to state programs and policies, with appeals to the working class “others”; (9) a rallying of the middle class in the name of “the people,” against the government and its alliance with the “others,” by coopting social justice imagery while committing racialized acts of violence; and, all the while, (10) a further strengthening of state-capital relations, constituting a further concentration and consolidation of power in the agrifood system.... [/size][/color][/font]
[/color][/size]
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on August 07, 2018, 08:27:01 AM
Good God!!! That monthly review.com article comprised of academic 'filler' reads like the author must have never been in a cola waiting to buy toilet paper.  ::)
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 07, 2018, 11:48:59 AM
Good God!!! That monthly review.com article comprised of academic 'filler' reads like the author must have never been in a cola waiting to buy toilet paper.  ::)

And I thought I'm the guy who writes posts so long that they use reading them as a substitute for fentanyl and opiates to induce sleep.

I couldn't get through the above post myself, lol...
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on August 13, 2018, 06:31:24 PM
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on August 13, 2018, 06:35:29 PM



They don't shave?
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 13, 2018, 10:03:44 PM
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.

A couple years back, we were in Aruba, which sits about a dozen miles off shore of Venezuela---an easy small boat ride away most days. The shop keepers were crystal clear about hating them. Their presence made getting or changing USD$ a chore--forget about ATMs....I didn't want to be seen with US money down where the Venezuelans dock their boats, trying to sell fruits and vegetables.

I don't know why Aruba govt authorities didn't restrict their presence,  as it was/is a different nation. I am not anti anybody really, but when there is a nation with desperate people who have to resort to theft and potentially upend a tourist centered economy, measures need to be taken. Awful situation coming out of Venezuela. I'd be all about dropping tons of food and medicine-- ' necessities ' but from what I've heard, that involves the IMF -- International Money Fund, which the Venezuelan govt. associates with the USA, so they'd rather starve.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: benjio on August 14, 2018, 12:54:24 PM
In my dealings with people in Cali I have not encountered approval of the Venezuelan immigrants. In fact to the contrary.


I will admit that most of those experiences were along the Coast where I found a lot of people were either from Venezuela originally or had ancestral roots there.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: mambocowboy on August 14, 2018, 01:01:14 PM

I will admit that most of those experiences were along the Coast where I found a lot of people were either from Venezuela originally or had ancestral roots there.
Yes even prior to the difficulties in Venezuela,  there was plenty of love for Venezuela on the coast,  with several of my wifes cousins enjoying a better life there; now, not so much. And those same cousins who were bragging about their riches are now begging for help...nevertheless,  there is plenty of empathy for them among my wifes family on the coast...
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 14, 2018, 08:31:20 PM
It seems before our time, Cuba had a degree of sophistication,  was quite cosmopolitan, with tiers of wealth both old and new. Life was pretty good overall, I am told. Today, they have talented medical doctors who make less money than wait staff and taxi drivers. Consumer goods, certain foods, are sometimes hard to find.

I think Venezuela, with socialism versus communism a driving force, is going thru similar woes. People expect utopia and equality, but more often end up with poverty, corruption and dysfunction.

Unfortunately,  when a strong leader, even a despot, grabs leadership in countries like these, (and I think the mindset there gravitates to that kind of "strong" leadership) the impact can last a long time, as they become entrenched, with bad leaders sometimes followed by worse.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 22, 2018, 07:56:02 PM
7.3 magnitude earth quake yesterday in Venezuela. Fortunately not a single person died.
But the media is reporting that it's the most catastrophic event to happen there in centuries.


I guess a nut job president who rigged the election, 40,000% + annual inflation, shortages of basic foods and supplies and again being rated the most dangerous nation on earth---with a lot of crime, including a whole lot of murders, must be 'fake news'?
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on August 22, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
Eastern States there still without power as of today. And the stores and banks have not opened up yet as a result of the currency reset. The earthquake must have caused a one day delay minimum. Cellular towers and much of the telephone landlines are still operating however. It was a shaker and in some places lasted more that a minute.


The biggest obvious fear for those on the coast was a tsunami but none occurred. Did see photos of cracked building facades and broken glass on the street near Lecheria (a suburb of Barcelona) but no major damage. Further east near the offshore epicenter is another matter. 



Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 22, 2018, 10:53:08 PM
Eastern States there still without power as of today. And the stores and banks have not opened up yet as a result of the currency reset. The earthquake must have caused a one day delay minimum. Cellular towers and much of the telephone landlines are still operating however. It was a shaker and in some places lasted more that a minute.


The biggest obvious fear for those on the coast was a tsunami but none occurred. Did see photos of cracked building facades and broken glass on the street near Lecheria (a suburb of Barcelona) but no major damage. Further east near the offshore epicenter is another matter.


Almost sounds like a normal day in that totally dysfunctional country....


'Scary' 7.3 Magnitude Earthquake in Venezuela is Area's 'Largest Historic Event' in Centuries
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: mudd on August 23, 2018, 10:44:54 AM
have a a friend who lives in venezuela, she is so worried  because she said the economy is a complete disaster now, worse than before because what Maduro just did with the bolivar.


 everything is closed, people cant buy anything because of the rate and inflation. i still amazed somebody hasnt taken out fatboy.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on August 23, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
The earthquake hit Trinidad pretty bad too.

I used to go to this restaurante in POS when I lived there.

www.google.com.co/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/7070544/venezuela-trinidad-earthquake-tsunami-warning-cancelled/amp/
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on August 23, 2018, 09:41:03 PM
The earthquake hit Trinidad pretty bad too.

I used to go to this restaurante in POS when I lived there.

www.google.com.co/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/7070544/venezuela-trinidad-earthquake-tsunami-warning-cancelled/amp/ (http://www.google.com.co/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/7070544/venezuela-trinidad-earthquake-tsunami-warning-cancelled/amp/)

When I was a kid, for a couple years, we lived in what were formerly the Dutch West Indies Caribbean region. We experienced some earthquakes  and they were scary. But even then--and now in Trinidad-Tobago, Venezuela and most of South and Central S. America, the buildings were/are built to hold up pretty well to 7+ magnitude earthquakes.

Nobody died in this 7.3 magnitude earth quake in Venezuela or elsewhere.

A 7.3 is TEN times the strength of a 7.2--a 7.4 TEN times the strength of a 7.3, etc.

The 2010 earthquake in Haiti was widely confirmed to be a 7.0---[bfar, far less powerful[/b] than the earthquake discussed here...[/size]

But 230,000 people died from that 2010 Haiti quake and they didn't and still don't have a lot of high rise buildings--it's just that their construction standards are woefully inadequate.

Hurricane preparedness--or the lack thereof, is similar. And the ignorant mindset isn't limited to third world nations.  People in the USA build million dollar 'vacation homes' that between rising sea levels and storms, are washed away every year.

I don't live in the flood plain and don't have to have flood insurance, although if I could climb a high enough tree, I could see the ocean in the distance. We're in what's known as the 'low country'--almost totally flat--a few barrier islands and miles of marshland separating us from the ocean.

If we had a real category 3 hurricane--that's just a wee bit above above a tropical storm or 'Nor Easter'--and that's NOwhere near as bad as a category 4 or 5--it's more akin to a tropical storm, we'd be screwed. It's been about a 100 years since we had one. Some say that's a reason not to worry.

I say it means were overdue and the weather's more unpredictable than ever. Our building codes are a sick joke--especially compared to nearby Florida's.

Especially if it came in during high tide--or worse yet--during high tide and a full or near full moon, my house would likely be washed away by a cat 3.

8 to 20 feet or more of salt ocean water would roll in like a water wall. We don't have basements--some homes are built slightly above ground, most sit on concrete slabs like mine. The homes are like paper cracker boxes, compared to a high tide rolling in, then rolling back out once the hurricaine's eye passes over. If it doesn't double back again, as they sometimes do..

Unlike most neighborhoods near me, I don't have to pay for hurricane/flood insurance, because technically I live in a slightly higher spot, (surrounded by flood zone neighborhoods) not in the designated 'flood zone'--but I pay yearly for optional federal flood insurance, anyways, because if it's "named" storm tropical, hurricane--as long as it's 'named'--that puts water in your house--and it WILL--my Allstate homeowners ain't gonna do squat.

Once your drywall's wet, flooring and contents all soaked w/ salt water and your electrical wiring's shot, you might as well give it up. But the mortgage payments, insurance and tax bills won't stop.

It's just a matter of time before a lot of people lose everything because of human negligence.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on August 24, 2018, 08:24:09 AM
When I was a kid, for a couple years, we lived in what were formerly the Dutch West Indies Caribbean region. We experienced some earthquakes  and they were scary. But even then--and now in Trinidad-Tobago, Venezuela and most of South and Central S. America, the buildings were/are built to hold up pretty well to 7+ magnitude earthquakes.

Nobody died in this 7.3 magnitude earth quake in Venezuela or elsewhere.

A 7.3 is TEN times the strength of a 7.2--a 7.4 TEN times the strength of a 7.3, etc.

The 2010 earthquake in Haiti was widely confirmed to be a 7.0---[bfar, far less powerful[/b] than the earthquake discussed here...[/size]

But 230,000 people died from that 2010 Haiti quake and they didn't and still don't have a lot of high rise buildings--it's just that their construction standards are woefully inadequate.

Hurricane preparedness--or the lack thereof, is similar. And the ignorant mindset isn't limited to third world nations.  People in the USA build million dollar 'vacation homes' that between rising sea levels and storms, are washed away every year.

I don't live in the flood plain and don't have to have flood insurance, although if I could climb a high enough tree, I could see the ocean in the distance. We're in what's known as the 'low country'--almost totally flat--a few barrier islands and miles of marshland separating us from the ocean.

If we had a real category 3 hurricane--that's just a wee bit above above a tropical storm or 'Nor Easter'--and that's NOwhere near as bad as a category 4 or 5--it's more akin to a tropical storm, we'd be screwed. It's been about a 100 years since we had one. Some say that's a reason not to worry.

I say it means were overdue and the weather's more unpredictable than ever. Our building codes are a sick joke--especially compared to nearby Florida's.

Especially if it came in during high tide--or worse yet--during high tide and a full or near full moon, my house would likely be washed away by a cat 3.

8 to 20 feet or more of salt ocean water would roll in like a water wall. We don't have basements--some homes are built slightly above ground, most sit on concrete slabs like mine. The homes are like paper cracker boxes, compared to a high tide rolling in, then rolling back out once the hurricaine's eye passes over. If it doesn't double back again, as they sometimes do..

Unlike most neighborhoods near me, I don't have to pay for hurricane/flood insurance, because technically I live in a slightly higher spot, (surrounded by flood zone neighborhoods) not in the designated 'flood zone'--but I pay yearly for optional federal flood insurance, anyways, because if it's "named" storm tropical, hurricane--as long as it's 'named'--that puts water in your house--and it WILL--my Allstate homeowners ain't gonna do squat.

Once your drywall's wet, flooring and contents all soaked w/ salt water and your electrical wiring's shot, you might as well give it up. But the mortgage payments, insurance and tax bills won't stop.

It's just a matter of time before a lot of people lose everything because of human negligence.

Same with the Armenia earthquake in the 80s.It was only in the 6 point someone rangebut wiped out half the city.

You have to take into account the depth of the quake as well.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 03, 2018, 02:49:02 PM
Venezuela's tale is beginning to look like what we sometimes see on the national news re 3rd world, lawless nations.

What's different is that their dictator largely refuses even outside food and medical aid, especially from the likes of the IMF.
I can't imagine the military standing beside him much longer before the populace riots enmasse and tosses him out.
Then again, in places like that, the successor is rarely any better.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-army-venezuela-border-migrant-crisis-economic-collapse-crime-murder-rate-a8512981.html
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 04, 2018, 01:59:24 PM

Amazing. When I read that Brazil had sent the army to the border, I thought they were trying to halt the influx of impoverished immigrants. Afterall, Brazil is going thru some rough economic times in its own right.

Instead, they're supposedly giving them warm meals, shelter, mattresses, work permits and flying them via jet daily to assimilate them across Brazil.

Doesn't quite sound like the USA-- Mexico situation, or Colombia --Venezuela....



"""This is a summary of what was said by UNHCR spokesperson William Spindler – to whom quoted text may be attributed – at today's press briefing at the Palais des Nations in Geneva.

UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, working with the Brazilian Government and partners is ramping up the humanitarian response for the growing number of Venezuelans arriving in the north of the country with increasing needs.

According to the Government’s latest estimates, more than 800 Venezuelans are entering Brazil each day. As the complex political and socio-economic situation in their country continues to worsen, arriving Venezuelans are in more desperate need of food, shelter and health care. Many also need international protection.

More than 52,000 Venezuelans [1] have arrived in Brazil since the beginning of 2017. An estimated 40,000 have entered through the isolated northern state of Roraima and are living in Boa Vista, the state capital.

With numbers growing, public services such as health care and sanitation are becoming stretched. Authorities recently declared a state of emergency and have allocated BRL 190 million (approximately US$ 58 million) for emergency humanitarian assistance for people coming from Venezuela.

UNHCR has been working closely with the Brazilian Federal Government to register Venezuelans and ensure all arrivals have proper documentation. Once documented, Venezuelan asylum-seekers, as well as those with special stay permits, have the right to work, and access health, education and other basic services.

Brazil’s Federal Government Committee on the Emergency Response to the Venezuelan influx, which is coordinating the humanitarian response in Roraima, is working with UNHCR to ensure Venezuelans have access to health care and proper shelter, and that they are being provided with basic aid items such as personal hygiene kits and mattresses.

UNHCR and the Brazilian Authorities are increasingly concerned by the growing risks faced by those Venezuelans who are living on the streets, including sexual exploitation and violence. To meet shelter needs and mitigate these risks two new shelters in Boa Vista have been opened in the last two weeks. The new shelters can house 500 people each, and are nearly at capacity. Priority is given to families with children, pregnant women, elderly people and others with specific needs.

UNHCR is managing the new shelters, and our staff are doing biometric registration and issuing identification cards for food and aid distributions there. At the same time, the Federal authorities through the Brazilian army are providing three warm meals a day as well as physical security. The municipal government is conducting vaccinations on site

Meanwhile, we are working with the authorities to identify Venezuelans willing to relocate voluntarilly from Roraima to other parts of Brazil. Relocation will provide longer-term solutions for people in need and ease the strain on local communities and services in Roraima state. Two flights, operated by the Brazilian Air Force are leaving Boa Vista this week. One left yesterday, flying 104 Venezuelans to Sao Paulo. The second is expected today to Sao Pablo and Cuiabá, the capital of the Mato Grosso state located in the centre of the country. This is expected to carry a further 277 Venezuelans.

So far, some 600 Venezuelans have been relocated to other cities, where local authorities and civil society groups are helping them integrate and become self-reliant. A UNHCR survey conducted by the Federal University of Roraima revealed that 77 per cent of Venezuelans currently living in Roraima hope to relocate to other parts of Brazil.

UNHCR is grateful to the actions of the Brazilian Government, including in keeping its borders open to Venezuelans and ensuring that all refugees and asylum-seekers in Brazil have access to basic rights and services.

UNHCR has recently requested from donors an initial US$ 46 million to implement its regional response plan for Venezuelans in the main host countries, Brazil included. So far, this plan is only 4 per cent funded. We’re calling on the international community for greater support to Brazil which has been generous in its response and needs further support to enhance reception capacities, prevent discrimination against Venezuelans, and ensure peaceful coexistence.

[1]Of the 52,000 Venezuelans living in Brazil, 25,000 are asylum seekers, 10,000 hold temporary resident visas, while the rest are working to regularizing their status.

For more information on this topic, please contact:

In Brazil, Luiz Fernando GODINHO, godinho@unhcr.org, +55 61 818 709 78
In New York, Kathryn MAHONEY, mahoney@unhcr.org, +1 347 443 7646
In Geneva, William SPINDLER, spindler@unhcr.org, +41 79 217 30 11

Primary country
Brazil
Other countries
Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)
Content Format:
News and Press Release
Language:
English
Theme:
Protection and Human Rights
Shelter and Non-Food Items
Water Sanitation Hygiene
Vulnerable Groups:
Refugees""""
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 04, 2018, 04:57:49 PM
Some interesting salario miimo figures for different Latin American countries here. For some reason Ecuador was not included but comparison with the US and England was. Many of the Venezuelan refugees are trying to make their way to Peru believing the economy is better there than in Colombia...which it is slightly.


http://www.newperuvian.com/current-minimum-wage-in-peru-in-us-dollars-and-soles/
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: mudd on September 04, 2018, 05:52:18 PM
actually, i saw some videos of brazilanz fighting and  trying to kick out the Venezuelans from a border town. not welcoming them.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 04, 2018, 09:11:07 PM
Below is from over 3 weeks ago, but apparently a lot of Venezuelans are 'passing through' Colombia to get to what they see as a better situation in Ecuador. I have a feeling that the actual number of refugees cited are in fact larger.

"" 10 August 2018
Migrants and Refugees
One of the largest population movements in Latin American history is under way from Venezuela, according to the UN Refugee Agency, UNHCR, which on Friday confirmed that it is increasing assistance to neighbouring Ecuador, where more and more Venezuelans are arriving each week.

Amid ongoing social and political upheaval in the South American country, more than half a million people have arrived in Ecuador since the beginning of the year, UNHCR’s William Spindler said.

“The exodus of Venezuelans from the country is one of Latin America’s largest mass-population movements in history,” he added. “Since the beginning of the year, some 547,000 Venezuelans have entered Ecuador through the Colombian border at a daily average of between 2,700 and 3,000 men women and children. However, the influx is now accelerating, and in the first week of August, some 30,000 Venezuelans entered the country. That’s more than 4,000 a day.”

In response to the situation, Ecuador has declared a state of emergency in the northern provinces of Carchi, Pichincha and el Oro.

The development means that Ecuador can assign additional resources to Venezuelans, many of whom have endured weeks of hardship on their journey to the border, UNHCR spokesperson William Spindler said.

“Many of the Venezuelans are moving on foot, in an odyssey of days and even weeks in precarious conditions,” he said. “Many run out of resources to continue their journey, and left destitute are forced to live rough in public parks and resort to begging and other negative coping mechanism in order to meet their daily needs.”

The UNHCR spokesperson noted that Ecuador also had a “long tradition of welcoming refugees” in a region where the movement of people across borders was commonplace.

Nonetheless, the rising number of arrivals have led to “pressure” on asylum registrations.

“Xenophobic reactions to the exodus have been noted in some quarters,” Spindler said. “The majority of the Venezuelans entering Ecuador continue onwards to Peru and Chile. Up to 20 per cent, however, remain in the country, some 7,000 of whom have sought asylum since 2016. The government-run asylum system is feeling this pressure.”

According to UN Migration Agency, IOM, there has been a 900 per cent increase in Venezuelan nationals living abroad on the subcontinent from 2015 to 2017 – up from 89,000 to 900,000.

Worldwide, the number has risen from 700,000 to more than 1.6 million in the same period.

A lack of visa requirements and other bilateral agreements make it relatively straightforward for Venezuelans to move through Latin America.

Speaking to journalists in Geneva, IOM spokesperson Joel Millman said that Latin American press reports refer to people’s pursuit of a “Chilean dream”, a reference to the American dream that many migrants are said to pursue when migrating north.""
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 05, 2018, 06:09:26 AM
Amazing. When I read that Brazil had sent the army to the border, I thought they were trying to halt the influx of impoverished immigrants. Afterall, Brazil is going thru some rough economic times in its own right.

Instead, they're supposedly giving them warm meals, shelter, mattresses, work permits and flying them via jet daily to assimilate them across Brazil.

Doesn't quite sound like the USA-- Mexico situation, or Colombia --Venezuela....


LMAOF Sounds more Like what Canadá is doing with illegal border hoppers ..allthough in Brazil's case it is probably all fake news..in Canada's case it is 100% true..I have seen it with my own eyes..
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 05, 2018, 06:42:02 AM
And speaking of "Fake News" did you know "socialism" did not cause the mess in Venezuela?

Canadas state run socialist news service and their most opinionated , progressive and "virtue signalling" journalist has declared that " Populism and not socialism " destroyed Venezuela.

And by inference, the same thing will happens with the US under the Trump regime.

Neil Mcdonald is a left wing journalist employed his whole life by the CBC, always opinionating absolute garbage and lies about subjects he has no clue about, and projecting himself as some kind of "expert" on the subject.


I was particularily disgusted by this article the idiot published.

And to think my tax money pays for this tripe.




www.cbc.ca/news/business/venezuela-populism-collapse-1.4804985

Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 05, 2018, 07:01:21 AM
And speaking of "Fake News" did you know "socialism" did not cause the mess in Venezuela?

Canadas state run socialist news service and their most opinionated , progressive and "virtue signalling" journalist has declared that " Populism and not socialism " destroyed Venezuela.

And by inference, the same thing will happens with the US under the Trump regime.

Neil Mcdonald is a left wing journalist employed his whole life by the CBC, always opinionating absolute garbage and lies about subjects he has no clue about, and projecting himself as some kind of "expert" on the subject.


I was particularily disgusted by this article the idiot published.

And to think my tax money pays for this tripe.




www.cbc.ca/news/business/venezuela-populism-collapse-1.4804985


þ
And speaking of "Fake News" did you know "socialism" did not cause the mess in Venezuela?

Canadas state run socialist news service and their most opinionated , progressive and "virtue signalling" journalist has declared that " Populism and not socialism " destroyed Venezuela.

And by inference, the same thing will happens with the US under the Trump regime.

Neil Mcdonald is a left wing journalist employed his whole life by the CBC, always opinionating absolute garbage and lies about subjects he has no clue about, and projecting himself as some kind of "expert" on the subject.


I was particularily disgusted by this article the idiot published.

And to think my tax money pays for this tripe.




www.cbc.ca/news/business/venezuela-populism-collapse-1.4804985

Just look at some of the coments from CBC supporters.

"Its not socislism that causes the problem.. its the CIA"

"Its the US Sancions"

"its the capiitalists"

These apologists are mostly public sector employees, social science or fine arts majors who live in their mom's basement

Its kinda like the Monty Python skit.."The dead parrot"...the Pet  shop keeper part being played by the champagne socialist  apologists..

"Its not dead ..its only stunned"  "It wasnt the fault of Socialism, it was..."

Sorry.. the fochin parrot is DEAD and it  was SOCIALISM that killed it you  disgusting sheep losers ...


https://youtu.be/4vuW6tQ0218


This is a prime example of why I could never return to Canadá to.live..

Propaganda machine from the press to the government , the Universities and the courts all shoving their  PC "Progressive"  garbage down people throats..and the native population.. especially the youngsters.. just lapping it up.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 05, 2018, 08:31:44 AM
Everyone always likes to have Venezuela as their socialist boogeyman but how come they never bring up Denmark or Sweden or the Netherlands? It's like all the old fat Americans ranting and raving about socialized medicine but they are the only ones in the country who actually have socialized medicine.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 05, 2018, 09:14:50 AM
There's no 'real' news. It's all basically the same stories, with the pictures, numbers and names switched around....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Calipro on September 05, 2018, 11:42:15 AM
Everyone always likes to have Venezuela as their socialist boogeyman but how come they never bring up Denmark or Sweden or the Netherlands? It's like all the old fat Americans ranting and raving about socialized medicine but they are the only ones in the country who actually have socialized medicine.


I never understood why the Democrats even came up with the idea of the  Affordable Care Act.


It would have been a much easier sell just to tell people we are lowering the age to qualify for Medicare from 65 to 25 years old.







Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 05, 2018, 02:43:23 PM
Everyone always likes to have Venezuela as their socialist boogeyman but how come they never bring up Denmark or Sweden or the Netherlands? It's like all the old fat Americans ranting and raving about socialized medicine but they are the only ones in the country who actually have socialized medicine.

SWEDEN is foched...8 million people and they let in.1 million Muslims.

And dont get me goin about Norway ..only 5 million people, high taxes and massive oil and gas reserves
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on September 05, 2018, 09:00:51 PM
SWEDEN is foched...8 million people and they let in.1 million Muslims.

And dont get me goin about Norway ..only 5 million people, high taxes and massive oil and gas reserves

Are you "foching" kidding us or something?

Sweden and Norway are great countries...with a high quality of life, etc. That is why so many people want to move there.

Same can be said for many of the other OECD countries with high levels of GDP per capita: Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Australia, the USA, etc.

All are REGULATED market economies with representative governments of one kind or another. Granted some are more regulated with a greater provision of public goods than others. But anyone born in any of the above countries won the damn lottery....relatively speaking from a global perspective. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita)

Within Latin America the two highest in GDP per capita and human development are Uruguay (center left) and Chile (center right).
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 06, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
I think Elex's ideal country is probably something along the lines of Putin's Russia or Pinochet's Chile. The opinion of Canada in the world and among it's own citizens has been steadily rising yet he hates what it's become. Me, I love it now so much better than when I left in the late '70s. If the climate were better I would go back there but as it is, I may spend four or five months a year there.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 07, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
Strictly an anecdotal observation: I am of Nordic heritage and I had a Norwegian cousin and his wife (same age, both early sixties but she looks like his older sister) visit me here in Colombia a few years ago. I took them all over Cali and up to a coffee growing village a couple of hours away. Because I wanted to enjoy the outings too I brought along my young girlfriend. At one point while we were walking around in El Centro she asked him if it was possible for a Colombian to get a tourist visa to visit Norway. He told her no, quite impossible. Later I asked him if that was true and he said no it would be easy but "you don't want to come to Norway and meet your relatives with a little Colombian whore". What an [snip]. The reality is Norwegians are extremely racist. They have a history of treating their indigenous population, the Sami as badly or worse as the Europeans treated the Indians in the US. My guests were a total pain in the ass. They bought the cheapest boxed wine to bring to my finca and the (old) woman prepared little evening meals for the two of them without even asking if I'd like some...in my house! We never even discussed why they "needed" to kill whales in modern times. Anyway you can keep your fochin' Norwegians.



Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on September 08, 2018, 06:06:30 PM
Strictly an anecdotal observation: I am of Nordic heritage and I had a Norwegian cousin and his wife (same age, both early sixties but she looks like his older sister) visit me here in Colombia a few years ago. I took them all over Cali and up to a coffee growing village a couple of hours away. Because I wanted to enjoy the outings too I brought along my young girlfriend. At one point while we were walking around in El Centro she asked him if it was possible for a Colombian to get a tourist visa to visit Norway. He told her no, quite impossible. Later I asked him if that was true and he said no it would be easy but "you don't want to come to Norway and meet your relatives with a little Colombian whore". What an [snip]. The reality is Norwegians are extremely racist. They have a history of treating their indigenous population, the Sami as badly or worse as the Europeans treated the Indians in the US. My guests were a total pain in the ass. They bought the cheapest boxed wine to bring to my finca and the (old) woman prepared little evening meals for the two of them without even asking if I'd like some...in my house! We never even discussed why they "needed" to kill whales in modern times. Anyway you can keep your fochin' Norwegians.


Wow, what a freaking azz-hole! I am surprised you didn't kick him and his lady out of your house. Should have driven them to the worst barrio in Cali and let them fend for themselves.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 08, 2018, 07:13:01 PM
Seems among nation's worldwide, there's always a need to look down, to piss on, even persecute others. The way we, the Spaniards and other Europeans treated the original inhabitants of North, Central and South America, largely fits the definition of genocide:

"The deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

In the USA, we couldn't do it with giving them death from the common (to us anyway) cold, but we gave them blankets from our small pox victims as a follow up. We took the good land from them, gave them the crappiest land, sending them on death marches to it. Then when it was discovered there was some value to that land, or in and under it--precious minerals, oil etc, or new hardier crops that could grow on it, we sent them to crappier land.

The school's on the Indian 'reservations' are the worst of the worst, even today.

Booze and drugs--things that were instantly addictive to them, still couldn't kill them, soooo--we give then gambling licenses to set up casinos. Yet another vice, so they fight among each other over the profits, claiming the purer the Indian blood, the higher percentage of profit each should recieve. Divide and conquer, as the British did in Northern Ireland.

So such behavior, 'mindsets' isn't isolated  to the Americas. Even in western Europe, the seemingly most 'civilized' and 'refined' nations have many so called 'elite' people who control most of the industry and wealth, who are thinly disguised facist nationalists.

I see African Americans who verbally put down other African Americans, because they have skin that's a shade darker. Or because they are perceived as acting 'too white'. --->"Oreos"

The movie "Crazy Rich Asians" is a LOT of fun for pretty much anyone who enjoys comedy, a bit of romance and spectacular scenery, but it cracked me up to hear Asians in it referring to fellow Asians who embraced white, American values --calling them -->"Bananas", LOL...

It just never frickin ends....

In Asia, Pol Pot, who killed millions in our lifetime, especially those who could read, who banned money and turned the calendar back to zero, was just another variation of Genghis Khan, from 1200 years earlier->

https://listverse.com/2016/08/27/10-brutal-moments-in-the-conquests-of-genghis-khan/

https://m.ranker.com/list/horrible-pol-pot-crimes/philgibbons

Man is one of few species that eats itself..
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Calipro on September 09, 2018, 09:28:45 AM
Strictly an anecdotal observation: I am of Nordic heritage and I had a Norwegian cousin and his wife (same age, both early sixties but she looks like his older sister) visit me here in Colombia a few years ago. I took them all over Cali and up to a coffee growing village a couple of hours away. Because I wanted to enjoy the outings too I brought along my young girlfriend. At one point while we were walking around in El Centro she asked him if it was possible for a Colombian to get a tourist visa to visit Norway. He told her no, quite impossible. Later I asked him if that was true and he said no it would be easy but "you don't want to come to Norway and meet your relatives with a little Colombian whore". What an [snip]. The reality is Norwegians are extremely racist. They have a history of treating their indigenous population, the Sami as badly or worse as the Europeans treated the Indians in the US. My guests were a total pain in the ass. They bought the cheapest boxed wine to bring to my finca and the (old) woman prepared little evening meals for the two of them without even asking if I'd like some...in my house! We never even discussed why they "needed" to kill whales in modern times. Anyway you can keep your fochin' Norwegians.


And don't forget those Norwegians can hold a grudge. jajaja

I forget what Pete E. did that you considered a slight.... But after that you disliked the guy until the day he died.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 09, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
I think Elex's ideal country is probably something along the lines of Putin's Russia or Pinochet's Chile. The opinion of Canada in the world and among it's own citizens has been steadily rising yet he hates what it's become. Me, I love it now so much better than when I left in the late '70s. If the climate were better I would go back there but as it is, I may spend four or five months a year there.



BS.. there are only 3 reasons the "enlightened" people voted for the useless drama teacher:

1, He is cute (all the women and gays)
2.He is gonna legalize marihuana
3. He is not Harper (The Last Prime Minister)

He has absolutly no capability to handle the positión.A trust fund child ex drama school teacher and snow board instructor who flunked out of first year engineering.
He spends all this time concentrating on "Virtue Signalling" and trying to get Canadá  a seat on the UN security council (what a useless piece of crap organization that is) .

Meanwhile, his policies and gaffs  are driving private investment out of the country.

If I was working, and  had a choice, I would rather be in the US under Obama or Clinton or Trump than in Canadá with the drama teacheras PM. But I am retired in Colombia, so it doest matter, other than my investments are in Canadá and I pay taxes there.

This guy , puts it more eloquently. He is Up to date with what is happening in Canadá now:

https://youtu.be/tYPAdB-KzbM

https://youtu.be/CGvlg0-RM5A

https://youtu.be/K4811viyarc

https://youtu.be/byrNW6eokWM

Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 09, 2018, 03:19:07 PM

And don't forget those Norwegians can hold a grudge. jajaja

I forget what Pete E. did that you considered a slight.... But after that you disliked the guy until the day he died.

I'd like to go in for some 'close quarter combat' with these Norwegians, grudge or no grudge.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39434655
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 09, 2018, 04:27:38 PM
CP the first day PeteE arrived in Cali I invited him to my house in La Flora for an elegant lunch prepared by my then compañera  then took him around Cali to places like La 14 Calima to show him where he could buy things. He never thanked me and I didn't hear from him again. So yes I figured he was kind of an azzhole gringo.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 09, 2018, 05:09:34 PM


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39434655 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39434655)



Ha ha that's funny. Avianca stewardesses wear their hair in a tight bun on the job but not those "Hunters" with their pretty ponytails. We couldn't get a good look but I wonder if they wear makeup too.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 09, 2018, 05:18:46 PM
Are you "foching" kidding us or something?

Sweden and Norway are great countries...with a high quality of life, etc. That is why so many people want to move there.

Same can be said for many of the other OECD countries with high levels of GDP per capita: Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Australia, the USA, etc.

All are REGULATED market economies with representative governments of one kind or another. Granted some are more regulated with a greater provision of public goods than others. But anyone born in any of the above countries won the damn lottery....relatively speaking from a global perspective. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita)

Within Latin America the two highest in GDP per capita and human development are Uruguay (center left) and Chile (center right).

Well in one generation it will all change.. everything will be under Sharia law..

You are right ..everyone wants to go there because of the social programs.

Welfare state plus open borders equals DISASTER.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 09, 2018, 05:31:17 PM
Strictly an anecdotal observation: I am of Nordic heritage and I had a Norwegian cousin and his wife (same age, both early sixties but she looks like his older sister) visit me here in Colombia a few years ago. I took them all over Cali and up to a coffee growing village a couple of hours away. Because I wanted to enjoy the outings too I brought along my young girlfriend. At one point while we were walking around in El Centro she asked him if it was possible for a Colombian to get a tourist visa to visit Norway. He told her no, quite impossible. Later I asked him if that was true and he said no it would be easy but "you don't want to come to Norway and meet your relatives with a little Colombian whore". What an [snip]. The reality is Norwegians are extremely racist. They have a history of treating their indigenous population, the Sami as badly or worse as the Europeans treated the Indians in the US. My guests were a total pain in the ass. They bought the cheapest boxed wine to bring to my finca and the (old) woman prepared little evening meals for the two of them without even asking if I'd like some...in my house! We never even discussed why they "needed" to kill whales in modern times. Anyway you can keep your fochin' Norwegians.

What  a jerk. I would have punched this lights out right there.

My Dutch relatives would never say anything like that, no.matter what they though personally thought about the age difference.

Sounds like he was a hater who was jeaulous cuz he was stuck with the old hag.

This is probably more because of the type of individual he was, rather than his nationality.

Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 09, 2018, 06:43:57 PM
Strictly an anecdotal observation: I am of Nordic heritage and I had a Norwegian cousin and his wife (same age, both early sixties but she looks like his older sister) visit me here in Colombia a few years ago. I took them all over Cali and up to a coffee growing village a couple of hours away. Because I wanted to enjoy the outings too I brought along my young girlfriend. At one point while we were walking around in El Centro she asked him if it was possible for a Colombian to get a tourist visa to visit Norway. He told her no, quite impossible. Later I asked him if that was true and he said no it would be easy but "you don't want to come to Norway and meet your relatives with a little Colombian whore". What an [snip]. The reality is Norwegians are extremely racist. They have a history of treating their indigenous population, the Sami as badly or worse as the Europeans treated the Indians in the US. My guests were a total pain in the ass. They bought the cheapest boxed wine to bring to my finca and the (old) woman prepared little evening meals for the two of them without even asking if I'd like some...in my house! We never even discussed why they "needed" to kill whales in modern times. Anyway you can keep your fochin' Norwegians.


Venezuela

When the Venezuelan War of Independence started, the Spanish enlisted the Llaneros, playing on their dislike of the criollos of the independence movement. José Tomás Boves led an army of llaneros which routinely killed white Venezuelans. After several more years of war, which killed half of Venezuela's white population, the country achieved independence from Spain in 1821.[11][12]

In Venezuela, like other South American countries, economic inequality often breaks along ethnic and racial lines.[13] A 2013 Swedish academic study stated that Venezuela was the most racist country in the Americas,[13] followed by the Dominican Republic.[13]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_America

I've heard it's really bad in Brazil too but that in Argentina, it's beyond 'racism'--that they hate people who aren't 'pure' Argentinian blood, regardless of their skin color, religion etc. Hard nuts to crack....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 09, 2018, 06:51:51 PM
Well in one generation it will all change.. everything will be under Sharia law..

You are right ..everyone wants to go there because of the social programs.

Welfare state plus open borders equals DISASTER.


What difference does it make? We have the US which is governed under strict Biblical law (watch Judge Kavanaugh and his cronies overrule Roe v Wade) or we have a country governed under Sharia law? Both groups are fanatics who hate homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, racial miscegenation etc Really the Baptists in rural Texas would be completely at home among ISIS or the Taliban. They would have beheadings in every town square if they could manage it!
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 09, 2018, 07:21:59 PM

What difference does it make? We have the US which is governed under strict Biblical law (watch Judge Kavanaugh and his cronies overrule Roe v Wade) or we have a country governed under Sharia law? Both groups are fanatics who hate homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, racial miscegenation etc Really the Baptists in rural Texas would be completely at home among ISIS or the Taliban. They would have beheadings in every town square if they could manage it!

Nothing like a good lynching to bring the village together. As long as there's a person, a group--something we can label, name, blame, be it a race, religion, a poltician, a political party, the news, the media--lots of things-- it can allow a group to get behind the 'call out', and collectively hate, act and even kill, none of them feeling remorse as any one 'individual'.

Once 'group think' sets in, the individual 'conscience' typically fades away.

Think of all those Germans in WWII who insisted : "I was just being a good German!"
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 10, 2018, 07:26:24 AM

What difference does it make? We have the US which is governed under strict Biblical law (watch Judge Kavanaugh and his cronies overrule Roe v Wade) or we have a country governed under Sharia law? Both groups are fanatics who hate homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, racial miscegenation etc Really the Baptists in rural Texas would be completely at home among ISIS or the Taliban. They would have beheadings in every town square if they could manage it!



I have lived 3 years in Saudí Arabia. You make a "slight" (to say the least) exageratión. In rural Texas I dont think they make women walk around in the  heat of day covered head to toe in  black , including face mask with eye slits, arrest women for being in public alone without their male chaperone (who must be her father, brother or husband),banned all alcohol consumption ,treat the Mexican labourers like medieval slaves living in dungeons working 120  a week for $100, (like the Saudis do with the temporary workers from Philipines, Nepal, Bangladesh)  or behead people in públic for one of the transgressions you listed- homosexuality, adultery, sexual depravity.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 10, 2018, 07:40:40 AM
Are you "foching" kidding us or something?

Sweden and Norway are great countries...with a high quality of life, etc. That is why so many people want to move there.

Same can be said for many of the other OECD countries with high levels of GDP per capita: Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Germany, Australia, the USA, etc.

All are REGULATED market economies with representative governments of one kind or another. Granted some are more regulated with a greater provision of public goods than others. But anyone born in any of the above countries won the damn lottery....relatively speaking from a global perspective. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_GDP_per_capita)

Within Latin America the two highest in GDP per capita and human development are Uruguay (center left) and Chile (center right).

There is what Black Pigeon has to say about Sweden

https://youtu.be/qPXsm_Fp58A

https://youtu.be/zkVcqZZG-aU

https://youtu.be/vhER6o2jGsg
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 10, 2018, 11:09:35 AM
I have lived 3 years in Saudí Arabia. You make a "slight" (to say the least) exageratión. In rural Texas I dont think they make women walk around in the  heat of day covered head to toe in  black , including face mask with eye slits, arrest women for being in public alone without their male chaperone (who must be her father, brother or husband),banned all alcohol consumption ,treat the Mexican labourers like medieval slaves living in dungeons working 120  a week for $100, (like the Saudis do with the temporary workers from Philipines, Nepal, Bangladesh)  or behead people in públic for one of the transgressions you listed- homosexuality, adultery, sexual depravity.


Actually alcohol is banned where I used to live and Mexican wetbacks are treated like slaves - I know because a neighbor lent me his wet when I had a particular brutal piece of work to do. In the schools and in government, Christianity is the state religion and there is no separation of church and state whatsoever. Women may go out in public alone but they are harassed and molested if they do so. Obviously the Baptists don't have the complete control that they would like to have but if they could, they would behead homosexuals and anyone violating one of the ten commandments.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 10, 2018, 01:15:42 PM
Was taking bids to put a french drainage system on our home's land, as when we get alot of rain in a short time, it gets almost swampy without drainage. Have a feeling these three hurricaines lined up out in the Atlantic right now are gonna leave us pretty 'froggy' at some point during the next few weeks. 'Helene' is looking like one hell of a wild card at this point to us.

It's so beautiful up thattaway, but other than that I can't see why  anybody would want to live in or around N. Carolina's Outer Banks---they seem to get the worst of the storms most of the time.

Anyhow, one red neck contractor made me an offer to 'fix' the drainage issue that sounded too good to be true. Incredulous, I said to the jerk: "What you're talking about is gonna take a backhoe to do---how are you gonna do that--move all that dirt at THAT price?"

He looked over at his crew cab truck and at this poor, broken down looking Mexican guy sitting in the back and said: "THAT's my 'backhoe"... I told him to get the F_ _ K off my property.

Should've had my Mossberg 500 'Streetsweeper' that tucks so neatly and discreetly in our umbrella jar by the front door ---the ratcheting sound of it loading would've been enough to give the guy a bowel movement, LOL.

Come to think of it, next time my buddies and I make our own shells, I'll have to load some 2.75 inch shells with rock salt. I used to cut through an 'off limits' farmer's  land--walking through, sometimes floating our little boat down the creek that passed along side it, and the old bastard thought he owned the water too--he used to let loose salt loaded shells towards our young asses. Never caught any and while I don't think it'd have killed anyone, it sure as hell would've stung for a while!
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 10, 2018, 04:21:06 PM
they make women walk around in the  heat of day covered head to toe in  black , including face mask with eye slits...


Did this affect your dating experience?
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 10, 2018, 05:15:54 PM
Nah, he wears a full body condom... ;D
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on September 10, 2018, 08:13:57 PM
Well in one generation it will all change.. everything will be under Sharia law..

Crazy talk.

You are right ..everyone wants to go there because of the social programs.Welfare state plus open borders equals DISASTER.


Any prosperous country with truly open borders would equate to troubles. But Sweden never had truly open borders and they have more restrictive borders now than they did in 2015.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Hector_Lavoe on September 10, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
There is what Black Pigeon has to say about Sweden

https://youtu.be/qPXsm_Fp58A (https://youtu.be/qPXsm_Fp58A)

https://youtu.be/zkVcqZZG-aU (https://youtu.be/zkVcqZZG-aU)

https://youtu.be/vhER6o2jGsg (https://youtu.be/vhER6o2jGsg)


This is your "jump the shark" post Elex. Posting a link to a paranoid conspiracy theorist like"black pigeon"...?  WTF?


Sorry to have to say this but you have to be a PARANOID KOOK to follow a putz like that.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Ricardo1 on September 11, 2018, 04:27:43 AM
Sometimes I am shaking my head in disbelief - when I read the narrow-minded, and yes bigoted attitudes in some of the posts on this site.
This is a forum about inter-cultural, inter-racial, or international dating and relationships - but sometimes one would think otherwise...

Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 11, 2018, 07:09:47 AM


I was married.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 11, 2018, 07:17:18 AM

This is your "jump the shark" post Elex. Posting a link to a paranoid conspiracy theorist like"black pigeon"...?  WTF?


Sorry to have to say this but you have to be a PARANOID KOOK to follow a putz like that.

Hes not all paranoid conspiracy. Listen to some of his stuff.Makes perfect sense.Especially tve stuff about Canadá, which I have seem Up close with my own eyes. And I am not the only one who feels that way. Cant say the same about Sweden, I havent been their in decades, and as you pointed out, their immigration policies have changed since these vídeos were made (due to.public pressure)

OF COURSE EVERYTHING He WRITES  NEEDS TO.BE TAKEN WITH A LARGE GRAIN OF SALT.

For example , the George Soros (there are others.) stuff.He goes a little too far there.I dont think George Soros (or the Koch brothers for that matter on the other extreme) is trying  to create conspiracy. Just a misguided los
Liberal.philanthropist.

I look at his vídeos from an academic intelectual viewpoint not for any paranoiac reason.

It is what it is .You cant fight city Hall. It only effects me as far as taxes and investments and Heath care, should I ever go back to Canadá. But I will survive (until I  die  ja ja)
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 11, 2018, 07:22:50 AM
Sometimes I am shaking my head in disbelief - when I read the narrow-minded, and yes bigoted attitudes in some of the posts on this site.
This is a forum about inter-cultural, inter-racial, or international dating and relationships - but sometimes one would think otherwise...

You should open your mine Up as well.Ricardo.
What is bigoted in anything I.posted?

You believe Islam is the Religión of peace and tolerance and  anything negative about it is Islamafobia?

Anyway we should get back on the topic of Venezuela here.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 11, 2018, 09:43:29 AM
That "black pigeon" is a smooth operator, I'll give him that, but if you can't see through it after watching a variety of his videos and find yourself still drinking his kool-aid, you're already gone--poisoned.

People who buy into that kind of crap typically have some empty or worse yet, cancerous places within themselves and desperately look to find fulfillment in the oddest places. Don't forget to click your heels as you salute....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 11, 2018, 10:53:35 AM
That "black pigeon" is a smooth operator, I'll give him that, but if you can't see through it after watching a variety of his videos and find yourself still drinking his kool-aid, you're already gone--poisoned.

People who buy into that kind of crap typically have some empty or worse yet, cancerous places within themselves and desperately look to find fulfillment in the oddest places. Don't forget to click your heels as you salute....

Ja ja..I said take it with a grain of salt.
Nothing wrong with immigration. Its mass immigration, especially of unskilled people with radicaly difierent cultural vales  into a welfare state which causes major problems.

Anyway change the subjects back to Venezuela.

I live in Bucaramanga and I see hundreds of refugees from Venezuela pouring in here everyday.
Hundreds on the road from Cúcuta. Men, women and children.Really sad.

I am thinking of doíng volonteer work with one of the several foundations here.

http://m.vanguardia.com/area-metropolitana/bucaramanga/442649-por-medio-de-estas-fundaciones-en-bucaramanga-usted-puede-ayud





Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 11, 2018, 03:43:21 PM
Immigrants past and future, uneducated, those with education and now more than ever, those that are highly educated, are extremely valuable in pretty much every first world nation.

People may moan and groan about Syrian and other refugees, but they'd probably complain just as loud if basic services they eventually will be employed to provide, go undone.

As mentioned before, in nations where the birth rate amongst those who's lineage goes far back is close to zero, where as is the case in some places, more diapers are sold to the elderly than to infants, low skilled, trainable immigrants and the roles they can assume, are essential.

The old comparison of the Chinese building our railroads and other immigrants building our first large city buildings and other infrastructure elements isn't exactly applicable to today.

As in the past, blacks and 'fresh off the boat' immigrants, have been quickly put into military service and have died in greater proportions than the 'native' populace. Immigrants have long been viewed as 'cannon fodder'.

But there's a lot of jobs that these people can do and better than "can" actually WILL do.

On the other snd of the spectrum, in high tech industries and the medical field, they're having nightmares regarding visa changes and the potential effect staffing Silicon Valley jobs--companies like Google, Amazon, FB, etc.

My sister is in charge of staffing for a company that oversees eight large hospitals in Michigan. She's aghast at the disconnect she sees regarding what some view as 'immigration reform' and the national need for well trained medical Drs--physicians, surgeons,, nurses etc, many of whom come from abroad, given our shortage of people born here and trained in those fields. There's a similar situation in finding school teachers.

If we're going to : "Make America great again" - - we're going to to need immigrants again....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Ricardo1 on September 11, 2018, 03:58:49 PM
You should open your mine Up as well.Ricardo.
What is bigoted in anything I.posted?

You believe Islam is the Religión of peace and tolerance and  anything negative about it is Islamafobia?

Anyway we should get back on the topic of Venezuela here.





El Ex,


My post was not directed at you, but yes I see stuff on this site way out of line, yes - that could be deemed as such ....
But, I am not targeting you or anyone in particular, just giving my commentary on some of the posts I see.


I haven't touched on Islam or my views of the religion (of which I am not qualified to speak)....  FYI
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 13, 2018, 09:31:44 AM
Sometimes I am shaking my head in disbelief - when I read the narrow-minded, and yes bigoted attitudes in some of the posts on this site.
This is a forum about inter-cultural, inter-racial, or international dating and relationships - but sometimes one would think otherwise...


It doesn't surprise me in the least. Most men who marry foreign wives are not interested in expanding their cultural horizons. I am probably the only gringo married to a Spanish speaking wife who actually speaks Spanish. Whenever I am at the Spanish language Mass I have never seen another gringo there ever. It kind of amuses the Mexican-Americans to see me there actually but they are always very polite.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Elexpatriado on September 13, 2018, 03:46:08 PM

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Most men who marry foreign wives are not interested in expanding their cultural horizons. I am probably the only gringo married to a Spanish speaking wife who actually speaks Spanish. Whenever I am at the Spanish language Mass I have never seen another gringo there ever. It kind of amuses the Mexican-Americans to see me there actually but they are always very polite.

I speak fluent Spanish and have visited more of Colombia than 95%  of gringos.

But then, I am.not married to a Combian (not now at least ja ja) as I dont believe in the Institute the way it is nowadays .

And have lived in 8 different countries and visited 50.

I used to be pretty good at Russian as well.

Being "open minded" isnt reserved to liberals only you know.

I know..its not about me..but I cant help but think it is..because of my anti-Trudeau rants ..and posting the Black Pigeon Speaks stuff.

BTW I looked at a couple more of his videos ..and I have to agree.. he has some really looney ideas..that do border on bigotry and old time anti semitism. Allthiugh he is dead on with what is happening in Canadá now.

Maybe we can change the topic back to Venezuela.?? SO we dont offend anyone?





Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 13, 2018, 05:02:50 PM

I am probably the only gringo married to a Spanish speaking wife who actually speaks Spanish.


By all means toot your own horn but to be real I have met many Americans married to colombianas over the years who speak very good Spanish. I don't think it's as exceptional as you make out. At the same time I congratulate you for your effort and you have a point.


It has always amazed me all these years the many gringos who come to Colombia seeking a wife who hark to the extremist far right. They abhor Mexicans and illegal immigration but absolutely want a hot Latina for them selves...It has also surprised me how many speak not a word of Spanish and don't intend to and insist their potential bride "learn English" or else!


However there is progress. Kanye West who is staying at the Spiwak hotel in Chipichape at the moment has learned to spell Colombia with an "oh". 


https://www.semana.com/cultura/articulo/kanye-west-esta-de-visita-en-colombia/582701
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: mambocowboy on September 13, 2018, 05:18:43 PM

By all means toot your own horn but to be real I have met many Americans married to colombianas over the years who speak very good Spanish. I don't think it's as exceptional as you make out. At the same time I congratulate you for your effort.
All the guys i have met are fluent, although we do have gringo accents, so not unusual at all.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 13, 2018, 09:58:12 PM
I don't speak Latin, but I've occasionally gone to church mass given in Latin since I was young. Nobody's molested me yet....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Wildstubby on September 14, 2018, 04:12:56 AM
When I set my sights on a Colombiana as a possible spouse, as made a pact to myself that if she was going to learn my language I am going to learn hers. Also, I didn't want to be talked about in front of my face and not knowing what was being said about me. I can speak it, (somewhat), reading I am at about 85%. But unless the person is speaking slowly, it is difficult for me to decipher. Its the nuances with the pronunciation and the regional dialect. Of course us gringos are guilty of the same thing here in the U.S.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 14, 2018, 08:39:13 AM
When I set my sights on a Colombiana as a possible spouse, as made a pact to myself that if she was going to learn my language I am going to learn hers. Also, I didn't want to be talked about in front of my face and not knowing what was being said about me. I can speak it, (somewhat), reading I am at about 85%. But unless the person is speaking slowly, it is difficult for me to decipher. Its the nuances with the pronunciation and the regional dialect. Of course us gringos are guilty of the same thing here in the U.S.

It sounds like a cop out, but brain wise, my least abilities fall into learning foriegn languages, abstract (complex) Math, and playing musical instruments.

That said, I have nonetheless always shown a sincere interest in my wife's country, including her language/dialect, food, customs and culture. But other than the most basic words, such as thank you, you're welcome, love you, beautiful...I'm limited.

Sound like I'm playing people and I guess I am a bit, but with overseas call centers, I've gotten great service and hundreds of dollars in savings from speaking a bit in their language.

But the fact that they speak a mile a minute when conversing with each other, doesn't help my listening comprehension. Same thing with Spanish. Three of my Uncles married lovely Puerto Rican ladies, nit at all uncommon in the Bronx, NYC area we lived. But with that exposure and dating a lot of babes from Spanish speaking backgrounds, my speaking and comprehension wasn't (isn't) much better.

But I try and especially with people from my wife's country, they always act surprised and are complimentary when I at least try to speak their language.

But it actually annoys me when I meet a foreign couple and see that one side makes no effort, or even overtly rejects accepting the other's culture, language etc. One guy who's wife is a good friend of my wife's, eats only American or Mexican takeout food and won't touch her nation's. He's never visited her country. He's highly educated, has a high level exective job and is from the north, but is living proof that redneck ignorance is not isolated to those born and raised in the south.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 14, 2018, 09:04:38 AM

By all means toot your own horn but to be real I have met many Americans married to colombianas over the years who speak very good Spanish. I don't think it's as exceptional as you make out. At the same time I congratulate you for your effort and you have a point.


I am sure that many guys can speak Spanish - my point was we actually do speak Spanish all day every day. So while I agree that many guys can speak Spanish, I doubt that it is part of their daily lives.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 14, 2018, 09:54:53 AM

I am sure that many guys can speak Spanish - my point was we actually do speak Spanish all day severy day. So while I agree that many guys can speak Spanish, I doubt that it is part of their daily lives.

UC,

You've mentioned that in her work and in general,  that your wife speaks little English. Perhapsthat necessitates you, as the person who's better picked up a second language to use it predominantly? Maybe she's like me, in that she has a difficult time picking up a new language. I couldn't even pick up on pig Latin as a kid on the playground...

I still coach my wife on pronunciation (at home it's probably more off, more relaxed than at her work) and I sometimes go over more important written business correspondence she writes.

My wife, on her own initiative,  has taken formal group classes for written and spoken English and done more one on one with Speech Pathologists, who offer free services through a m local University grad school.

But she still frets about her English capabilities,  as it's essentially English based, although now, LOL, as their ECommerce specialist, she's had to put her company's huge catalog of items into French, for their Quebec opertaions.

I guess where you live, English is less essential than where we do, but do you have mixed feelings about the situation?
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: benjio on September 14, 2018, 10:18:58 AM
I have met dozens of gringos married to Colombianas they met in Colombia and almost all of them spoke Spanish at a conversational level. If a Colombiana hasn't put significant effort into learning English before you started dating her, that process usually won't begin until she actually gets stateside and realizes she can't communicate with a lot of people. What that usually means is if you want to build a healthy relationship where you and the Colombiana communicate well, you're going to have to teach yourself Spanish. This is what I've seen happen more times than not. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever known a Colombiana that started dating a gringo not knowing English, got engaged to him and learned to speak English before she got to the U.S. It just doesn't happen. So with respect to UC's point, I think speaking strictly Spanish in the home is much more common than you think....at least the first couple of years of marriage. I might be wrong.



Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on September 14, 2018, 12:32:44 PM
I have met dozens of gringos married to Colombianas they met in Colombia and almost all of them spoke Spanish at a conversational level. If a Colombiana hasn't put significant effort into learning English before you started dating her, that process usually won't begin until she actually gets stateside and realizes she can't communicate with a lot of people. What that usually means is if you want to build a healthy relationship where you and the Colombiana communicate well, you're going to have to teach yourself Spanish. This is what I've seen happen more times than not. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever known a Colombiana that started dating a gringo not knowing English, got engaged to him and learned to speak English before she got to the U.S. It just doesn't happen. So with respect to UC's point, I think speaking strictly Spanish in the home is much more common than you think....at least the first couple of years of marriage. I might be wrong.


Fifteen years of nothing but Spanish. Hell sometimes I am watching TV or listening to the radio and I forget what language I am even listening to.


My real point though is how many gringo husbands even know who these people are: J Balvin, Maluma, Ozuna, Becky G, Natti Natasha, Bad Bunny, Nicky Jam? They stay in the gringo culture and never get out of it.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Calipro on September 14, 2018, 03:38:40 PM

It doesn't surprise me in the least. Most men who marry foreign wives are not interested in expanding their cultural horizons. I am probably the only gringo married to a Spanish speaking wife who actually speaks Spanish. Whenever I am at the Spanish language Mass I have never seen another gringo there ever. It kind of amuses the Mexican-Americans to see me there actually but they are always very polite.


A gringo absolutely must learn Spanish to understand their Spanish speaking wife or girlfriend.
There are fundamental differences in the way we see the world because of the differences in our languages and religion if you aren't already catholic.


https://www.ted.com/talks/lera_boroditsky_how_language_shapes_the_way_we_think?language=en (https://www.ted.com/talks/lera_boroditsky_how_language_shapes_the_way_we_think?language=en)

The video touches on some of the differences of the Spanish language at about the 4:15 mark.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on September 17, 2018, 06:49:18 PM
My amiga's "Care" quarterly package finally passed customs at Puerto Cruz this morning. Food, OTC medicines, toiletries, diapers, clothes, and shoes, even school supplies were delivered. A family member who emigrated 6 years ago has been organizing this for a number of years now.


One will know when things get really bad there when, if in the future, Venezuelan customs finally stops all influx of items from Venezuelan emigrants that live in other countries. Or tariffs rise so high it becomes impossible to ship.   
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 17, 2018, 08:20:26 PM
My amiga's "Care" quarterly package finally passed customs at Puerto Cruz this morning. Food, OTC medicines, toiletries, diapers, clothes, and shoes, even school supplies were delivered. A family member who emigrated 6 years ago has been organizing this for a number of years now.


One will know when things get really bad there when, if in the future, Venezuelan customs finally stops all influx of items from Venezuelan emigrants that live in other countries. Or tariffs rise so high it becomes impossible to ship.   


What have you heard about (if even possible) sending USD$?


I hear because of all the (40,000%+) inflation and other related issues, that sending USD's isn't feasible--that as there's a shortage of their own money on hand there, the 'black market' to exchange USD's is better, but still extremely uneven, risky. Food, diapers, OTC medicines--I hear they really are hard to get.


My wife went home to the Philippines and she timed her 'care packages'--known as 'balikbayon boxes'--they must have weighed 250 pounds if they weighed an ounce--to arrive a week before she got there. That way, as 'returning princess' her luggage overage wasn't too bad.


But OTC meds like naproxen (Aleve) and things like Levis, Nikes, Adidas etc. are much, much cheaper in the USA. But that naproxen --they love it for aches and pains, so we sent a lot of that, along with a multitude of useful and some fun things "USA style"--clothes, electronic tablets, cell phones etc--a king's ransom in chocolate--they were very happy.


Besides--- their peso is weak, the USD is close to an all time high against it, so she was able to show them a 'good time on the town' while there. Still, for just about anything that's a USA brand, or any electronics, it was a lot cheaper to send it there than to exchange USDs to pesos and buy the same item there.


But Venezuela? Do you even get to--dare to visit her and her family yourself? I can't imagine the complications, the trying to visit, to try and get a fiancee or spousal visa--such a sad mess.


I wish we could carpet bomb their nation with pampers, OTC and needed pharm meds, candy bars, bread, potatoes, mac n cheese and spam......
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on September 18, 2018, 11:28:18 AM
robert angel wrote:
Quote
I wish we could carpet bomb their nation with pampers, OTC and needed pharm meds, candy bars, bread, potatoes, mac n cheese and spam......

Now this reminds me of a scene from the movie "El Cid" where  The Cid (not Sid Cherise) is laying siege to Valencia controlled by the Moors. In a key scene he yells out to the besieged within the walls: "I do not bring you fire and the sword. I bring you BREAD!!!!!". And the trebuchets are let loose filled with loaves of bread. After the bread lands withing the walls and the populace find the bread lying in the streets, the Moorish Caliph is overthrown by the mob. Great Scene.

All items mentioned by Robert, it would "turn the tide" so to speak and I would include chocolates for the hembras especially. ;)  It is too bad our enlightened politicos do not take a lesson from history and try it. Imagine Trump 'tweeting' such a message similar to El Cid's. And then following through with it. But no!!!! There is no great profit margin in dropping 'bread' instead of bombs.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 18, 2018, 03:02:45 PM
robert angel wrote:
Now this reminds me of a scene from the movie "El Cid" where  The Cid (not Sid Cherise) is laying siege to Valencia controlled by the Moors. In a key scene he yells out to the besieged within the walls: "I do not bring you fire and the sword. I bring you BREAD!!!!!". And the trebuchets are let loose filled with loaves of bread. After the bread lands withing the walls and the populace find the bread lying in the streets, the Moorish Caliph is overthrown by the mob. Great Scene.

All items mentioned by Robert, it would "turn the tide" so to speak and I would include chocolates for the hembras especially. ;)  It is too bad our enlightened politicos do not take a lesson from history and try it. Imagine Trump 'tweeting' such a message similar to El Cid's. And then following through with it. But no!!!! There is no great profit margin in dropping 'bread' instead of bombs.

Yea, be nice to help and probably in doing so, placate the people with food and other non military aid, but the 'powers that be' in other nations, including the USA, sure would love to have some leverage and control over their vast petrol reserves, so guess that's not happening.

I hear the machinery in Venezuela, their means of production for bringing up, refining and exporting oil, is falling, rusting apart, but just how accurate the news is today is anybody's question.

I do know from guys who work in the oil business in the USA, especially just off shore, that when we hit oil, we usually cap it to save for later.

It's just a lot more practical to dance with other nation's leaders and get most of theirs--- the world's oil overseas, while they're still plentiful and it's cheaper for us than it is in most nations.

Guess we're waiting Maduro's tenure out, sort of smoking out a fox, albeit by squeezing the Venezuelan populace to make them apply exit pressure....

Then again, you don't see proportionate USA, or international in general aid--- humanitarian assistance for nations like Venezuela, although in the past, China and the Russians have done more. 

I can't see Cuba being of major help in Venezuela. I wonder what China's doing, because they've got their hands all over S. America, with major infrastructure projects. The moneys, if not majority ownership of such projects are tightly controlled by the Chinese and will remain so long after the projects are complete. I don't think S. American nations, or some Asian nations like the Philippines, know what they re doing dealing with, thinking  that by getting some aid 'gratis' from the Chinese, that there's not serious debt and long lasting control-- 'strings' attached. A deal with the devil, perhaps...

Meanwhile, we're saving our own oil for when it's really much more valuable. I bet it's cheaper, even with oil sands and fracking USA and Canadian oil, to import crude oil instead of bringing up, refining and storing our own domestically. Certainly cheaper and more advantageous long term.

Oddly, the news I hear is that Maduro has been rejecting humanitarian aid from the IMF, as he feels they're too close to the USA, but again, who the hell knows?

Hard to imagine, given description of hardships.

I am thinking whoever might succeed when Maduro is 'exited' may be about the same or worse. Although Venezuela is relatively sophisticated, they still, like S. America in general, tend to put 'strong man' dictator types in charge during such times. S. American mindset?

Hell, in the USA, we tend to elect politicians with the big hair, with capped, veneered teeth, guys who look like game show hosts and have millions in campaign donations (from donors they're later obligated to) to spend on  advertising. And almost always, the politician who spends, who advertises the most, wins. Sad. Are we any better than S. America in that regard?

Have you thought seriously of visiting there?

The below link on Venezuela and the IMF appears dated, as last time I heard, the inflation date was an astounding 40,000%+originally

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_and_the_International_Monetary_Fund

Reminds me almost of post WWI Germany. Inflation got so bad then that it actually became more economical to burn paper money to heat, to provide fire for stoves and cook, than it was to bundle up money into wheel barrows and use it to buy actual firewood or a loaf of bread.
 
I have some half billion mark paper money around the house somewhere. Be nice if they still honored that currency!I

I have an odd hobby. I collect money from nations that have experienced regime change and have discontinued a given currency.

I'm the 1970s, the Khemer Rouge, in what is now Cambodia, banned the production, the mere thought of 'money'-- but the communist Chinese briefly minted-- produced a Khmer Rouge paper currency for them anyway and I have some.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

Small wonder that the desperate post WWI German population looked for a charismatic, messiah like appearing, nationalistic leader, who eventually led them into WWII.

So much has changed, yet history continues to repeat itself.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on September 18, 2018, 06:32:10 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/23/venezuela-dictator-democracy-nicolas-maduro-venezuelans
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on September 23, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Visited a friend in a village a couple of hours away from Cali. He said there are venezolanas working the bars there now who reportedly will turn a trick for five thousand pesos. Probably just some local exaggeration. My friend can't confirm as he has a girlfriend and doesn't patronize hookers anymore.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on October 19, 2018, 06:06:33 AM
Wondering why gasoline prices hadn't gone down in the fall as they usually do, I tried to find out why.

I was very surprised to see that we've not only been continuing to get oil from Venezuela, but in terms of our largest suppliers, they're basically tied with Mexico as our second or third largest supplier.

Venezuela's oil infrastructure, like the nation in general, is falling apart and they need us more than ever to refine their crude oil.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=Z8HJW4baB4G6gge0lYDoAQ&ins=false&q=us+oil+imports+by+country+2017&oq=us+largest+oil+importing+countries&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.0.0i71l5.0.0..26122...0.0..0.0.0.......0.HPUV-H8v1Hc

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-The-US-Wont-Sanction-Venezuelas-Oil.html

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

It was also interesting to see that we're using a whole lot less Saudi oil than we used to, and that Canada in first place by a mile, sends us more than four times as much oil than Saudi Arabia does.

While it's a bummer we're paying more at the pump lately for dubious reasons, we shouldn't forget that we pay a lot less for gas than most other nations.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on October 22, 2018, 01:27:09 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/22/americas/mexico-migrant-family-crosses-river-weir/index.html

It's desperate in a number of places, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on October 23, 2018, 10:12:27 AM
UC,

You've mentioned that in her work and in general,  that your wife speaks little English. Perhapsthat necessitates you, as the person who's better picked up a second language to use it predominantly? Maybe she's like me, in that she has a difficult time picking up a new language. I couldn't even pick up on pig Latin as a kid on the playground...

I still coach my wife on pronunciation (at home it's probably more off, more relaxed than at her work) and I sometimes go over more important written business correspondence she writes.

My wife, on her own initiative,  has taken formal group classes for written and spoken English and done more one on one with Speech Pathologists, who offer free services through a m local University grad school.

But she still frets about her English capabilities,  as it's essentially English based, although now, LOL, as their ECommerce specialist, she's had to put her company's huge catalog of items into French, for their Quebec opertaions.

I guess where you live, English is less essential than where we do, but do you have mixed feelings about the situation?


Here in San Antonio you can live your whole life in Spanish. She knows enough English to make doctors appointments and have rudimentary conversations, thank goodness. For a while I had to do all that too and it WAS irritating.


The other thing which is irritating is when there are group situations where everyone is speaking English and later she will want to go over the whole thing to be sure that she got everything. Most of the time she has gotten the gist of it and I sure as hell don't want to go over an entire group conversation. If it's something major, yes but the details about who said what, forget it.[size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on October 23, 2018, 01:16:34 PM
13 years later, I am still occasionally explaining metaphors, ' figures of speech ' and the like, to my wife. Spanish similar challenges abound, no surprise, given how common greetings, counting numbers etc are often done using Spanish in the Philippines.

But in written composition, singular vs plural, past vs present, gender references and more, still require her to go a bit slower. I encourage her to ' say it in her head' as or after she's writing before hitting send. In some parts of the province she came from, the dialect is so similar to Spanish that if you only speak Spanish, you can do things like watch and understand the TV news without difficulty.

But one thing for sure--- and I bet this extends across a lot of languages, cultures, is as we might THINK they're ' Getting it'--- that they're understanding a lot more than they actually are, but they're NOT getting it all.

 Beyond ' reading between the lines' they get better and read and understand 'between the words' -- the words that as used, they don't really ' get'.  They're just getting the gist of what we're saying and we don't always know what's not understood, as they're passing OK.

And as her understanding has gotten pretty good, my wife doesn't ask me much anymore "What does that mean?" and I have to pick up on it myself.

But it was weird at first. Once we were in a park and a lady had a cute toy sized poodle. I saw how much she adored that dog and commented:

" Awww, that must be your baby"-- she replied " Sure is".....

My wife was SHOCKED. Out of earshot ( try explaining 'earshot ' BTW) she told me:

"You just told that woman that her child is a DOG!!"

Good Lord, if I married a Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Colombian or Brazilian woman not Very well versed in English already, I'd go NUTS!
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on November 24, 2018, 08:32:46 AM
No surprise that top govt officials close to Maduro have been illegally making billions in US dollars, buying high end properties in places like NYC and Miami, even meeting with US govt officials like VP Pence under the auspices of changing their crisis situation.

Meanwhile, the people starve...

Such a sordid, classic story being told once again.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article221706585.html

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article190926039.html
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: ralphmalph on December 25, 2018, 12:32:30 PM
Year end update. Seems that inflation in Venezuela has taken such a firm hold that even during the season of Natividad and el Ano Nuevo a somber mood has befallen even the eastern states of that country not just the capital and the western states.


My amiga reported that last year the crowd of shoppers had diminished from previous years' activity was still evident. Houses were illuminated and there were people in the streets. This year, no. The city has been dark and very little shoppers and stores are even open for holiday shopping. There is far less available for sale as compared to last year. She blamed it  directly on only one thing: inflation.


And some tiendas are posting their prices in USD dollars where before this year, that currency was never posted and priced.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: Wildstubby on December 25, 2018, 03:03:19 PM
What a sad state of affairs for a once great country! Venezuela was the first SA country I visited when we had a port of call in Caracas about 1984. I remember being on Shore Patrol the last night there going to the local cathouse with 2 buses to round up the 'remaining troops'. One swabbie locked himself in a room with a prepago and vowed never to come out! His concubine decided to talk him out of his insanity and he finally gave himself up. Now Caracas looks like a war zone. What a shame!
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on December 25, 2018, 09:19:36 PM
For 2018, as of October figures, depending on your source,  provider figures place Venezuela as either still the 3rd or 4th largest provider of oil imported into the USA.
That's about 11 billion dollars worth from most reports.

Meanwhile, humanitarian aid from the US Govt. has almost exclusively been earmarked for people fleeing Venezuela,  aid workers being sent to neighboring countries feeding and providing Venezuelan refugee's with shelter and medical support outside VNZ's borders.

Maduro must be some kind of nut, because even IF the USA and other international humanitarian agencies want to help people IN his country, he has not been very receptive.

Unless he's running a very tight, effective police/military security state, I can't see how he's keeping a revolution, a coup from occurring.

Makes me think of what precipitated the French revolution hundreds of years ago and in this past century, how military police states in S. America, China, Eastern Europe and for USSR nations kept their regimes going.

It's clearly just a matter of time and how, not whether or not,  Maduro gets overthrown, but like ancient Rome's Julius Caesar,  it'll probably be someone from relatively close or in his closet circle. And that person or persons, will quite likely take control and be very much like him, while promising otherwise.
What a mess indeed.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: utopiacowboy on December 26, 2018, 01:28:39 PM
Makes me think of what precipitated the French revolution hundreds of years ago and in this past century, how military police states in S. America, China, Eastern Europe and for USSR nations kept their regimes going.


The US is just as much of a police state as anywhere else in the world. The cops can stop you and seize your property as a civil forfeiture and you will never see it again. They can kill you in cold blood with your hands up and nothing happens. Placate the masses with credit card debt, meth, opioids and food stamps. It's a Banana Republic on steroids.
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on December 26, 2018, 03:21:57 PM
Russia is or soon will be in complete control of Venezuela's oil industry gold as well.




venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-russia/venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX)
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: buenopues4 on December 26, 2018, 03:52:32 PM
Venezuela has a good friend in Putin. Russia will be probing it up for years to come.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-russia/venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on December 26, 2018, 04:29:46 PM

The US is just as much of a police state as anywhere else in the world. The cops can stop you and seize your property as a civil forfeiture and you will never see it again. They can kill you in cold blood with your hands up and nothing happens. Placate the masses with credit card debt, meth, opioids and food stamps. It's a Banana Republic on steroids.

I've mentioned here a number of times that the USA has a much larger % of it's population locked away in prisons than ANY other nation on earth does.

Ditto about how my describing how overall, the building and administration of prisons and probation systems are private, for profit enterprises, typically given  'gifted' to retired govt.officials and their families as never ending cash cows.

In Georgia and probably a number of US states, they make you sign away rights outlined in the constitution,  which allow them to continue incarceration and unholy amounts of fines indefinitely.
Then if you can't pay, more accurately WHEN you can't pay, they take away your driver's license, or other licenses,  certifications to work as, to name but a few,  as teacher, plumber,  electrician or building/construction contractor.

The "war on drugs" as I've said, is a joke. Now that the govt realizes the immense profits legalizing marijuana will bring, other drug violations will likely be more frequently selectively prosecuted and sentences will be longer.

It's a wildly uneven system though. We just had a killer released in my city. He was in a ruthless narcotics gang, for which to become a member, you had to go out and kill an innocent white person. People out walking their dogs in typically safe neighborhoods, were being blown away.

After a long shootout with a bunch of police, he was caught in the 1990s and sentenced to 14 life sentences,  plus 125 years. (A couple decades later, the chief of police went to federal prison when the media exposed HIS corruption) But while in prison, among other offenses, they found the gang banger in possession of a large homemade 'shiv" (knife), a cell phone, charger, etc.

He was just released on probation, back into the general population. He 'did' 25 years of again, FOURTEEN LIFE sentences,  plus an additional  125 to serve...


Merry Christmas....
Title: Re: Venezuela, what a mess, and spilling over at that....
Post by: robert angel on December 26, 2018, 05:02:38 PM
Venezuela has a good friend in Putin. Russia will be probing it up for years to come.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-russia/venezuela-signs-oil-gold-investment-deals-with-russia-maduro-idUSKBN1O51WX

That's significant, but still rather puny compared to the many billions China is investing in S. and C. American infrastructure projects. Even if the S. and C. American nations could ever somehow pay back the 'loans' that these sometimes mind boggling in scale projects entail, the Chinese and Russian gifts have it set up that they have strings attached, legal details that will make certain that they retain significant control over the completed projects indefinitely.

If it's not enough for the Chinese to furiously work towards controlling the Straits of Mallaca, where 70% of the planet's economic assets must pass through, they want a similar arrangement with a new,  C. American trans oceanic canal that will make the present Panama Canal all but obsolete.