"Freedom" in America

[V_Man]

Basically, America is the land of the free (or so we like to pretend),....

Jajajajaja!!!! Funniest thing I've heard all week!! Good one! 

[stnmasn]

Jajajajaja!!!! Funniest thing I've heard all week!! Good one! 

Are things more free elsewhere?

[V_Man]

Are things more free elsewhere?

Yes. Almost all western countries and many developing countries are in practice freer in terms of human rights. In the USA there is a lot of talk about freedom but in practice there is often less freedom than other developed countries. In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination, a law and order issue, homeland security, etc. This is most obvious when you consider how many people have their liberty removed from them entirely in the USA.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation.
The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)
The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.
The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.
People in the USA are locked up for writing bad cheques, inability to keep up with unrealistic child support payments and a host of reasons similar to the days of the industrial revolution. One solider returned from a tour of duty fighting a war only to discover his wife had left him and he was locked up for failing to pay child support while he had been held as a prisoner of war.
The United States is, for instance, the only advanced country that incarcerates people for minor property crimes like passing bad checks. The USA also locks people up much longer than other countries.

[stnmasn]

Yes. Almost all western countries and many developing countries are in practice freer in terms of human rights. In the USA there is a lot of talk about freedom but in practice there is often less freedom than other developed countries. In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination, a law and order issue, homeland security, etc. This is most obvious when you consider how many people have their liberty removed from them entirely in the USA.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation.
The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)
The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.
The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.
People in the USA are locked up for writing bad cheques, inability to keep up with unrealistic child support payments and a host of reasons similar to the days of the industrial revolution. One solider returned from a tour of duty fighting a war only to discover his wife had left him and he was locked up for failing to pay child support while he had been held as a prisoner of war.
The United States is, for instance, the only advanced country that incarcerates people for minor property crimes like passing bad checks. The USA also locks people up much longer than other countries.

Vman..i didn't realize we were talking about people in jail...yes i am sure you are right that the people in jail aren't as free as everybody else in the world who aren't in jail. And I agree that we throw many people in jail that may not deserve to be there and the opposite is also true.


I didn't realize that the jail population numbers were the definition of how free a countrys population is. To me that isn't a valid angle to take when talking about a populations level of freedom, unless you are talking exclusively about a prison population.


Now when you say the people who have their liberties removed entirely in the USA i am assuming you mean only prisoners or maybe there is another segment of the population here in the USA that doesn't have the same rights that I have and that I enjoy.  Can you tell me how  those of us in the USA, who aren't incarcerated have less rights than those from other developed countries that aren't incarcerated? 


I am not going to say I am up to date on these jailed population facts that you are providing and they are probably accurate.  I just have an issue with such a large statement that "almost all western countries and many developing countries are in practice freer in terms of human rights",,,,can you give examples because I have a hard time believing that very bold statement.


 Now I am not a highly educated man but I am full of common sense and I am open to being taught on this issue so I have a better understanding of the world and a better platform to base my own viewpoint on the world and on my country. 


Everybody is welcome to please enlighten me on this freedom issue. Please guys from around the world can you give me examples. Keep it coming Vman..lets just keep it to non-jailed peoples rights.


Do deadbeat dads not deserve any punishment? And if they do deserve punishment what should it be? Who decides what is an unrealistic child support payment?

[Ray]

Yes. Almost all western countries and many developing countries are in practice freer in terms of human rights. In the USA there is a lot of talk about freedom but in practice there is often less freedom than other developed countries. In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination, a law and order issue, homeland security, etc. This is most obvious when you consider how many people have their liberty removed from them entirely in the USA.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation.
The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)
The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.
The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.
People in the USA are locked up for writing bad cheques, inability to keep up with unrealistic child support payments and a host of reasons similar to the days of the industrial revolution. One solider returned from a tour of duty fighting a war only to discover his wife had left him and he was locked up for failing to pay child support while he had been held as a prisoner of war.
The United States is, for instance, the only advanced country that incarcerates people for minor property crimes like passing bad checks. The USA also locks people up much longer than other countries.

　
This is mostly all a bunch of whiny bullshyt.
　
Are people in America free to do whatever they want? Hell no!
　
Do we lock up criminals in America to protect the rest of the population? Hell yes!
　
Many of your numbers are misleading. "If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up." You forgot to mention that something like 27% of those incarcerated in American prisons are not Americans. Yes, we get thousands of foreign a-holes coming here and breaking our laws and a lot of them get locked up where they belong.
　
"People in the USA are locked up for writing bad cheques". This is a bunch of crap! Very, very few get imprisoned for writing bad checks. The overwhelming majority of bad checks are not criminal offenses or are only misdemeanors. To get locked up for writing bad checks, there must first be a clear intent to defraud, the check must be for a significant amount, and it must be presented for a limited number of situations. Those locked up are mostly repeat offenders and career criminals who intentionally tried to defraud others.
　
"In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination..." HUH? I have never heard the term "positive discrimination". Did you just make that one up?
　
Ray
　

[V_Man]

Guys, I think this has gone off topic and that is probably my fault. 

[Bob_S]

Not a problem.  We can take care of that.

[Fuzzyone]

　
This is mostly all a bunch of whiny bullshyt.
　
Are people in America free to do whatever they want? Hell no!
　
Do we lock up criminals in America to protect the rest of the population? Hell yes!
　
Many of your numbers are misleading. "If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up." You forgot to mention that something like 27% of those incarcerated in American prisons are not Americans. Yes, we get thousands of foreign a-holes coming here and breaking our laws and a lot of them get locked up where they belong.
　
"People in the USA are locked up for writing bad cheques". This is a bunch of crap! Very, very few get imprisoned for writing bad checks. The overwhelming majority of bad checks are not criminal offenses or are only misdemeanors. To get locked up for writing bad checks, there must first be a clear intent to defraud, the check must be for a significant amount, and it must be presented for a limited number of situations. Those locked up are mostly repeat offenders and career criminals who intentionally tried to defraud others.
　
"In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination..." HUH? I have never heard the term "positive discrimination". Did you just make that one up?
　
Ray
　

  Very well put Ray agree 100%. writing bad checks puts you in jail? I bet if that was your check book and account V would see it in a different light!

[Bob_S]

"In the USA the removal of freedoms is usually described in politically acceptable terms - such as positive discrimination..." HUH? I have never heard the term "positive discrimination". Did you just make that one up?

That may have been a term used in Aussie media to describe what we call Affirmative Action or Reverse Discrimination.

As for passing bad checks, accidentally bouncing a check is usually not a crime, but intentional check fraud is.  I'd like to know what the punishment for check or credit fraud is in Oz and other countries.  You get a finger shaken at you sternly?  Because I got a growing wish list of tech toys I want and a old closed checking account with left over checks I'd like to bring over.

[utopiacowboy]

Freedom in America? A topic near and dear to my heart. I left Canada partly because Canadians valued security more than liberty and I always liked the chaos and anarchic aspects of the US because they were the price of the liberty its citizens valued so greatly. Sadly Americans have become just like their Canadian brethren willing to trade their liberty for an illusion of security by granting the federal government powers that would make the founding fathers spin in their graves.

Americans have become people who have lost their cajones, fearful of illegal aliens and al queda terrorists and anything foreign or unfamiliar. They used to embrace the future but now they leave the future to places like Brazil. The meth-addicted white population has never traveled much so they continue to indulge in dime store patriotism thinking that the US is number 1 in everything. If they actually traveled, they would see that many Third World countries have matched the US in many measures of quality of life. The US does not rank #1 in anything except military might and as the country's economy is hollowed out and the future is mortgaged to the Chinese, even that military might will not stop the march of decay and rot that is at the core of today's USA.

[Ray]

Freedom in America? A topic near and dear to my heart. I left Canada partly because Canadians valued security more than liberty and I always liked the chaos and anarchic aspects of the US because they were the price of the liberty its citizens valued so greatly. Sadly Americans have become just like their Canadian brethren willing to trade their liberty for an illusion of security by granting the federal government powers that would make the founding fathers spin in their graves.

Americans have become people who have lost their cajones, fearful of illegal aliens and al queda terrorists and anything foreign or unfamiliar. They used to embrace the future but now they leave the future to places like Brazil. The meth-addicted white population has never traveled much so they continue to indulge in dime store patriotism thinking that the US is number 1 in everything. If they actually traveled, they would see that many Third World countries have matched the US in many measures of quality of life. The US does not rank #1 in anything except military might and as the country's economy is hollowed out and the future is mortgaged to the Chinese, even that military might will not stop the march of decay and rot that is at the core of today's USA.

　
Say What?
　
Being opposed to illegal immigration has nothing to do with being fearful. On the contrary, the wimps who turn their backs to illegal immigration are mostly cowards who have no stomach to enforce our laws because it’s just too hard, and it’s easier to let the illegals come in here and do as they please. They are the ones who need to grow some cajones!
　
And what’s this about meth-adicted white population? What has white got to do with it? I’m sorry, but I have traveled extensively and I still haven’t found any other country on this planet that I would give up my US citizenship for. There are still many more people around the world who, like yourself, are eager and willing to sacrifice everything and denounce their own citizenship for the opportunity to become American citizens and enjoy the rights and privileges that go with it. I don’t see millions of people around the world flocking to Brazil or Mexico like they are here. This is still the number one destination for people seeking opportunity and freedom, so don’t write off the USA just yet, at least not until after the next election.   
　
I agree that we have given up too much power to the government recently in the name of security, but to completely ignore the threat of Al Queda terrorists to this country is also just dumb. Having open borders does absolutely nothing to protect our freedoms as Americans. A country without borders is not a country.
　
 

 
Ray
　

[michaelb]

Well, let's just say that I've never seen any newsreels of dangerously overloaded small craft headed toward Cuba.

[utopiacowboy]

　
Say What?
　
Being opposed to illegal immigration has nothing to do with being fearful. On the contrary, the wimps who turn their backs to illegal immigration are mostly cowards who have no stomach to enforce our laws because it’s just too hard, and it’s easier to let the illegals come in here and do as they please. They are the ones who need to grow some cajones!
　
And what’s this about meth-adicted white population? What has white got to do with it? I’m sorry, but I have traveled extensively and I still haven’t found any other country on this planet that I would give up my US citizenship for. There are still many more people around the world who, like yourself, are eager and willing to sacrifice everything and denounce their own citizenship for the opportunity to become American citizens and enjoy the rights and privileges that go with it. I don’t see millions of people around the world flocking to Brazil or Mexico like they are here. This is still the number one destination for people seeking opportunity and freedom, so don’t write off the USA just yet, at least not until after the next election.   
　
I agree that we have given up too much power to the government recently in the name of security, but to completely ignore the threat of Al Queda terrorists to this country is also just dumb. Having open borders does absolutely nothing to protect our freedoms as Americans. A country without borders is not a country.
　
 

 
Ray
　

The Republican congressman who represents our district is a first-class criminal by the name of Lamar Smith. He is tough on illegal immigration to pander to his meth-addicted constituents but at the same time he is the leading sponsor of bills to increase the number of H1-Bs at the bidding of his main campaign contributors, Indian contracting companies by the name of TCS and HCL. He should be listed as Lamar Smith R-Mumbai since he represents their interests more than that of his constituents. By keeping them focused on red herring social issues, he manages to continue to get re-elected.

Why do I say meth-addicted white population? Among the white trash population of the US, meth is the drug of choice and an epidemic just as crack cocaine is in the black communities. In our small town just as is true of many small towns in the US much of the white population is on food stamps addicted to meth. Sarah Palin's adopted home town, Wasilla, is the meth capital of Alaska. As a result of their drug addictions and unemployment (helped along by the outsourcing and insourcing of jobs maneuvered by criminals like Lamar Smith) the white trash population is now plagued by the same high illegitimate birth rates, unemployment, food stamp dependence, and criminality that used to be restricted to the black population.

As for illegal aliens, I've known many and you won't find a harder working group of people. They do jobs no one else wants at a pay rate no one else is willing to accept. If it were up to me I would deport the white trash to Mexico and keep the illegals!

[Ray]

The Republican congressman who represents our district is a first-class criminal by the name of Lamar Smith. He is tough on illegal immigration to pander to his meth-addicted constituents but at the same time he is the leading sponsor of bills to increase the number of H1-Bs at the bidding of his main campaign contributors, Indian contracting companies by the name of TCS and HCL. He should be listed as Lamar Smith R-Mumbai since he represents their interests more than that of his constituents. By keeping them focused on red herring social issues, he manages to continue to get re-elected.

Why do I say meth-addicted white population? Among the white trash population of the US, meth is the drug of choice and an epidemic just as crack cocaine is in the black communities. In our small town just as is true of many small towns in the US much of the white population is on food stamps addicted to meth. Sarah Palin's adopted home town, Wasilla, is the meth capital of Alaska. As a result of their drug addictions and unemployment (helped along by the outsourcing and insourcing of jobs maneuvered by criminals like Lamar Smith) the white trash population is now plagued by the same high illegitimate birth rates, unemployment, food stamp dependence, and criminality that used to be restricted to the black population.

As for illegal aliens, I've known many and you won't find a harder working group of people. They do jobs no one else wants at a pay rate no one else is willing to accept. If it were up to me I would deport the white trash to Mexico and keep the illegals!

　
Cowboy, you completely lost me with your rant implying that the eroding of our freedoms in America is somehow a racial issue and all the fault of white people (or Indians) and Republicans. WTF??
　
Stupid BS phrases like "they do jobs no one else wants" and "they do the work Americans won’t do" are the mantra of the leftist open-border whackos and I’m surprised you fell for their propaganda.
　
Here’s yet another example of poor hard-working illegal aliens doing the work raping and murdering that Americans won’t do:
 
*****
  Four Mexican nationals charged with rape, murder of La. woman 
 
On Sunday, less than 24 hours after the lifeless body of Angela Laudun, 33, was discovered in a remote area, Lafourche Parish Sheriff’s Deputies arrested and charged four Mexican nationals with her rape and murder.
 
According to the sheriff’s office, around 2:00 a.m., Saturday, the woman voluntarily left a Galliano bar with the men, at which time they drove her to a nearby house. Apparently, Laudin became concerned for her safety and tried to leave, but the men held her down and took turns raping her.
 
At some point, during the ordeal, she was strangled to death.
 
The men, then allegedly placed the woman’s body in their SUV, eventually dumping her in a heavily wooded area. A few hours later, the body was discovered by a man doing some work on his property.
 
Gonzalo Portillo Cortes, 20; Esdras Sanchez Garcia, 21; Louis Nava, 28; and Jose Castille Mareno, 23, have all been charged with aggravated rape and first-degree murder.
 
All four suspects work for Quality Shipyard in Houma, La., and while their employer claims that the men presented valid documents prior to their employment, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has placed a hold on them.
 
The alleged assailants are Mexican nationals and their interrogations had to be conducted in Spanish. They are currently being held in the Lafourche Parish Detention Center.

*****
　
I could go on and on, but what’s the use when the leftist whackos have been able to convince millions of American sheeple with their mantra that illegals are just a bunch of hard-working folks doing the work that Americans won’t do.
　
BULL SHYT!
 
 
Ray
　

[stnmasn]

Just wondering if anybody has found a Bill of Rights in any other country that gives its population more rights and freedoms than the Bill of Rights in USA gives its population. ( and yes i know the bill of rights is  being eroded here ). I just wonder where the people have more rights and are freer than in the USA.


I guess i still don't agree with Vman on that topic. Though i agree with him on everything else i've read that he's posted.


I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but nobody has given ANY examples of a country where the population has more rights and is freer , and i question whether anyone can.

[braziliangirl]

It's hard to compare since I don't know the Bill of Rights. But I've been to the US more than a couple of times and can't see it as more free than Brazil.

Please tell me why do you think your country is the place where people have more rights and are he freest... Give me examples, and I'll tell you how things work in Brazil.

[benjio]

It's hard to compare since I don't know the Bill of Rights. But I've been to the US more than a couple of times and can't see it as more free than Brazil.

Please tell me why do you think your country is the place where people have more rights and are he freest... Give me examples, and I'll tell you how things work in Brazil.

Outside of human rights, the only aspect of Brazil that I'd say is not as "free" as the U.S. is the business and tax structure. It's absolutely ridiculous. For a privately owned business to operate legally in Brazil they must obtain "Un Numero de Inscrição" (Registration Number), a primary "Classificação Nacional de Atividades Econômicas" and if necessary several secondary "Classificação Nacional de Atividades Econômicas." The paperwork necessary for a U.S. Corporation to obtain the registration, then get officially classified is quite intimidating to say the least. In essence, it's all about people having the money to grease the bureaucratic wheels through some government endorsed law firm. This is only the beginning. Brazil's Government wants to watch every single cent being exchanged within their borders. A business not only has to report their income to the government every quarter, but every single invoice a registered business creates needs an authentication code from the Brazilian Government to be valid. Without this code, the customer is not obligated to pay the balance. The government claims it uses this "verification system" to combat "black market" business (Black Market in Brazil means any business the government can't tax). In actuality, this system is used to keep a financial tab on every business, and allows the government to quickly audit and fine any business that is showing descrepancies between invoices verified and income received when they file their taxes. And believe me, the fines are astronomical!!!! This invoice authentication process is done on the federal, state, and depending on the region sometimes the city level. There is also a ongoing Interstate Tax War going on in Brazil. States temporarily reduce their taxes lower than adjacent states to encourage businesses to move there, only to increase them again once a quota has been met. There are businesses in Brazil that change the location of their corporate office every year for this very reason. There are states in Brazil that also FORCE manufacturing businesses to use a predefined percentage of raw materials produced in Brazil. So that means if you want to build cars in Brazil in Pernambuco, 70% of that car must be made from Brazilian Raw Materials. Any less...more astronomical fines. I could write about this stuff for pages.
 
GE's CEO recently spoke in detail about the difficulty his company had getting started in Brazil on 60 Minutes. All that trouble for a company that was bringing thousands of jobs to Brazilians that desperately needed them. Most businessmen from the U.S. and Europe with the intention of starting a business in Brazil usually change their minds within the first year. I have yet to encounter anyone from the United States that owns and operates a business in Brazil. I know 5 men in Colombia.
 
This isn't exactly "less freedom" per se. But I think taxes can be a very effective form of oppresion...and that's exactly what's going on there in my opinion. Who picks up the tab for all the nonsense...Brasileiros! This is why iPhones cost $800 a piece in Brazil. All this in a country where most roads are in barely passable to worse condition. Where are the tax dollars going? Let's just say there has never been a Brazilian politician that left office and wasn't very wealthy, regardless of how much they were worth when they got elected. Which leads me to an even more ironic fact: It's against the law not to vote there.
 
 

[V_Man]

Hi guys,
As you may have noticed I am very reluctant to continue off topic discussions. Also I think this subject touches a nerve with Americans. I don't want to make a sport of bashing America or anything like that. Many Americans are very nationalistic and proud of their country. You have many things to be proud of.

However since your guys are far more worldly than most Americans and since several people have asked me to explain, I'll try to do just that.

America is not the land of the free. It is the land of the locked up.
More people both in total numbers and per capita have their freedom taken from them in America than any other country.
They are also locked away for longer compared to other developed countries.

That is not a discussion. It's a simple fact. Google it.

People have their freedom removed from them in America for reasons that rarely if ever occur in other developed countries.

In other developed countries freedom is valued and can only be removed from a person in extreme circumstances.In America the bar is much lower. Freedom is removed from people in America more often, more readily and for longer.

With regards to your rights. I am no expert on international rights. However citizens in all developed countries have more or less the same freedoms guaranteed under their respective laws. Some countries have rights that American's don't have and some countries don't have rights that American's have. However I'm not aware of any significant difference. If you have some special right in America that does not exist in other developed countries - then please do tell. Frankly it is rather irrelevant since those rights are relatively easily removed from a person in America.

Now it's your contry and you may be perfectly happy with your system.
Some people don't think Americans are so inherrently more evil than other people that it justifies removing the freedom of 2.3 million people. About 1 percent of the adult population. However you may feel otherwise.

My point is that there are less people with freedom in America than other all countries.
In other developed countries freedom is more valued.

[Ray]

No, we don’t put up with rapists, murderers, child molesters, drug pushers, and other vermin here in America. Those idiots gave up their right to freedom when they chose to commit their crimes and they got a fair trial, so what is all this whiny-assed nonsense about locking up criminals?
　
I’ll tell you what V-man, since you are so concerned about a bunch of worthless criminals, how about we send all of them over there to your country so you can coddle them and kiss their worthless arses?
 
 
Would that make you happy?
　
 
 
Ray
 
 

[Bob_S]

...compared to other developed countries....
In other developed countries freedom is more valued.

Well, there's the flaw in your argument right there.  You are comparing the U.S. to other developed countries.  It's far from developed.  It is a Third World dictatorship run by a bunch of corrupt Chicago thugs, just with a more reliable electricity grid and mostly safe water coming out of the tap.   

[V_Man]

No, we don’t put up with rapists, murderers, child molesters, drug pushers, and other vermin here in America. Those idiots gave up their right to freedom when they chose to commit their crimes ...

What makes you suggest that these serious crimes go unpunished in other developed countries?
It is true that on a frequent basis, female murders get off completely free in Australia. As do female child molesters in New Zealand. However outside of those exceptions, what is the basis for your suggestion that other developed countries allow serious crimes to go unpunished?

The central issue is that in the USA lesser crimes result in freedom being removed from people. I don't think I can make it any clearer really. Now it could be that you think this is fine. I don't see that this policy has made the USA any safer than the rest of the developed world but I'm not arguing one way or the other. The point is that freedom is more valuable in other countries and is more difficult to remove from a person. It is a fact.

Someone asked me to explain this point and I've explained it. If you refuse to listen to it or accept it then that's your preogative. I'm simply explaining what is a simple, undeniable fact.

I will add that the rest of the developed world sees it as a fraction scary that so many people in the USA fail to grasp this point.

　
I’ll tell you what V-man, since you are so concerned about a bunch of worthless criminals, how about we send all of them over there to your country so you can coddle them and kiss their worthless arses?
 
 
Would that make you happy?
　
 
 
Ray
 
 

Ray, didn't you know that this is exactly how Australia was founded?
Well, OK there may have been more forced labour, whipping and beating than coddling and kissing - but that was just our way of being welcoming. In New Zealand at the time they were eating new arrivals so you can see, relatively speaking, it was coddling.

Well, there's the flaw in your argument right there.  You are comparing the U.S. to other developed countries.  It's far from developed.

Well I wouldn't go that far but it is kinda weird how some things can be the most advanced in the world and other things surprisingly backward. Variety is the spice of life though!

[piglett]

maybe the numbers for the FSU is lower than ours because they just line up some of their really bad scum bags & shoot them while we have the aclu& other communist organizations here that will help the worst of the worst stay on death row for 30 dam years while throwing up the nuttyest thing a person could ever come up with as a BS defence & reason for 19 new trials all held at tax payer expense.
 
 
p i g

[Ray]

As another poster mentioned, gauging a country’s relative freedom by counting how many criminals they lock up is illogical.
　
I really don’t care about hardened criminals losing their personal freedom. The longer criminals are locked up the safer and more free I feel.
　
Sexual predators of children are the scum of the earth in my book. In most states in our country, we have what we call Jessica’s Law, which cracks down harshly on child molesters. If you sexually assault a child under 12, you can get life in prison. If paroled, you are restricted to where you can live and you may be subjected to lifetime GPS monitoring of your whereabouts. Because of these laws, our children are safer and have more freedom…freedom from criminal assault and murder.
　
We also don’t tolerate career criminals. Here in California, we have a 3-strikes law that sentences you to life behind bars if you are tried and convicted of a third serious crime. Because these losers are behind bars, our citizens have more freedom…freedom from being victimized by these scumbags.
　
I think you need another yardstick to measure our relative freedom by, not the fact that our criminals are losing their personal freedom as their punishment.
　
 

Ray, didn't you know that this is exactly how Australia was founded?

 
Of course. That's why I mentioned it.   
 
 
Ray
　

[utopiacowboy]

Do you actually know any illegal aliens, Ray? I know plenty and believe me, there is not a better group of people. I can't say the same for the native born white trash population - they disgust me. 

[V_Man]

Also you have missed the point that people are locked up for relatively trivial reasons. Freedom in the USA is not as valuable as it is in other countries. It is readily removed from people in the USA. Some people are jailed in the USA simply for being poor. A few without even legal representation. It is real Charles Dickens stuff.

http://keithpounds.com/?p=269

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44376665/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/unable-pay-child-support-poor-parents-land-behind-bars/#.UBB4VqM9aRE

I don't see how locking someone up because they lost their job gives other people more freedom.

If I dug I could find other sorts of relatively minor offenses in the USA that result in jail time.

But if you don't want to hear it or you think it is fine that is OK with me. I was only explaning how other people do see the hipocracy of it. It is not my country. Even if you had the most repressive systems of justice in the world it would make little difference to me. We have enough issues and flaws to worry about in my own country.