A scammer trying to work the system!

[Alabamaboy!]

Well UC, that is another thing that truly surprised me, I have never talked with a Colombiana that preferred to come to the US rather than us stay in Colombia. I was shocked by that. I thought they all would want to come to the US. But I think there is enough bad press about the US these days that they are not so excited about coming to the US. They are more interested in having the guy with some cash, whether he is Colombiano, Gringo, whoever. And they would prefer to live and spend that cash in Colombia, so they can show off in front of their family and friends and make them as envious as possible.

One of my ex's is from a very modest family outside of Cartagena. She married a guy from Switzerland who makes a very good living. And she is telling me she much rather stay in a modest apartment in Cartagena area rather than a much higher level of lifestyle in Switzerland.

The only place that I hear any of them prefer better than Colombia is Miami, and they only seem to like the idea of living there because they can return to Colombia in a couple hours' flight.

At least that has been my experience.

[bcc_1_2]

I have made 13 trips to Colombia so far, and I am amazed at the sheer numbers and percentages of the women who are at least "interesadas" and  even prepagos. And it is not just with the poor girls, the women with Master's degrees and cars are also doing it.

YES, just because she has a graduate degree... doesn't mean she isn't taking part in this... which is why Colombia is such a phenomena. That is something you don't hear often on this board but there are plenty of middle class women with education doing just as you described.

And that is the difference between Cali, Colombia and Monterrey, Mexico. You hit a hot nightspot in Monterrey and the girls interested in meeting, talking, and dancing with you will have a sincere interest in doing so. In Cali you have to use your skills of deduction to find out.

Don't believe me? Send FT into Cafe Iguana or Nirvana with his pants hiked up and see what happens. Then do the same at La Sexta Avenida in Cali. Your results will starkly contrast each other.

If anyone ever wants to get a true feeling for how they do with Latin Women... give Monterrey a try if you are up for it.

[bcc_1_2]

           I do see your point about Colombian women and agencies getting trashed around here.It doesn't really reflect the whole truth that I know about the situation and the country itself I agree.

I'd say better to error on the side of caution. I'd also say the past reflections of some don't jive with their actual struggles and accounts on the ground... in their past trips reports.

My agrument is not that the majority of women in Colombia are evil, mean, out to get you, hookers, etc. The argument is a "mark" identifying the women with a prepago/ suggar gringo type approach is more challenging in Colombia than anywhere else in Latin America. I guarantee you several posters with a rosey interpetation of Colombian women are in fact a "mark" when they travel down for many of the ladies.

Bluntly put the chica you wine and... put so much emotion into... could very well be a booty call for a buddy of mine... and many other men.

[fathertime]

What happened bcc, I thought that agencies were the cause of all these bad things happening?

  I’ve never read so much about prepagos from a guy who is married and supposedly has no actual experience with them.  I mean that is practically all you want to talk about. Bad experience after all perhaps?   I know you think you are immune to all of this because of your “MBA” and your near success as a star athlete. From my perspective, it is all bs to pump yourself up, at the expense of everyone else.  For some reason it seems to bother you that semi-old gasbags can bag a hot beauty just the same as younger men!

I encourage you to post more of my previous trip reports if you think there is something within them that will prove useful in solidifying your argument that ‘agencies are the cause of the sugardaddy culture’ within Colombia.  You can try to morph the disagreement into something else, but that is where it has lied all along on this thread.   

Nobody is doubting that there are plenty of user women within Colombia because I know that to be true.  I’m continuing to fight your assertion that it is the agencies that have ‘turned this into a nasty plague’.  Although now it seems you have run away from that earlier claim and are making neutral statements that everybody can agree on.

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

I guarantee you several posters with a rosey interpetation of Colombian women are in fact a "mark" when they travel down for many of the ladies.

Bluntly put the chica you wine and... put so much emotion into... could very well be a booty call for a buddy of mine... and many other men./quote]

I gotta chuckle at all this!   Sounds like some old guy took a gal you wanted to get to know better!

From your words, just about everybody is a 'mark' except for you of course!  We mustn't forget you are the only one able to get a woman to 'tell you everything'!

Fathertime!

[dennislevy]

Well, maybe i can weigh in on this....

My credentials, i live in Bogota, Colombia full time, I have been a client in agenices and I worked for an agency and I know several agency onwers quite well. I aslo speak fluent Spanish.

The personal introductions agencies do nt play a bg part and they are not machines for propagating prepagos. In any agency, there are women who are manipulative and opportunisitas, there are women are who terrifiic with good values and there is everthing in between.

The problem as is that many men who come to Colombia are denenerate sex tourists or they are tourists who want to go out and have a good time, spend some money on a hot looking girl and take her back to their hotel room.

As an American man who live sin Bogota, let me tell you aobut my last three dates.
Im 56, researcher knows me personally, others on the board by my reputation.

Today I had a second date with a woman who is a Bogota agency member. She is 45, never married, no kids. Her dad died threr weeks ago. We met today at Plaza de las Americas, not a glitzy shopping mall in South Bogota, I bought luch for about 16,000 pesos, we talked, held hands walked aorund the mall, took a 4,400 peso cab ride to her apartment She lives with he rmom. First time I had met the mom, I kissed her ron the cheek tod her how sorry I was that her husband of 47 years died. Out came the photo albums, I sat on the couch with her daughter and looked at the albums. Mom made coffee, arepas and queso for us, we cahtted, at 7 30 they walked me to the street I caught a cab, hugged the mom and kissed the daughter ont he cheek. . Total time spent  for a seond date, 5 hours and thirty minutes, cost including cabs about 21  bucks.

A second date tomorrow for breafast in a bakery in my neighborhood with a 42 year old woman, never married, no kids, owns her own house, is an accountant. First date was an intro by a a married couple, an  Amnerian and his colombiana wife, the woman is the wife s best friend. We chatted and flirted during the frist conversation, the couple left us alone for 45 minutes in an OMA in a shopping mall in central Bogota. I spent abut thrree hours with the couple and their friend, split the bill, about 12 bucks adn Im including a cab back to my neighborhood. We decided we wanted to gout out again, chatted twice during the week on the phone breakfast is tomorrow, if it costs anymore then 20,000 pesos, I ll be very  surprised.

Third date is tomorrow night, a third date with a very attractive, intelligent divorced lady of 48 who owns her own busines, owns her own apartment, owns her own car employs 12 peope, has two teenage kids, started chatting on Colombian Cupod and wrote emails for two weeks before we met for a first date. I took her out for a nice dinner at a 5 star hotel, and it was still under 50,000 pesos. she insited on paying for the second date, tomorrow dinner is on me....We both liek the same restaurant, a very reasonable italian place in Usaquen.

Bone of these three women have asked me aobut a green card, all thee have visited the US, know that I live in and make my life here in Colombia. None has asked me for money, none of them has asked me to buy them a giift....none is a scammer.

Does any of this sound hard?  Three women form three different sources..and Im getitng to knw them. If ther eis an intimate realtionship with any of them, it will happen when it wil happen... I ask a lot of questions, they ask me questions, we lak aobut family and our lives and our pasts, waht we liek waht we dont like  and waht we want for the future.

I don t do things much different then when I dated in the US, but I do it in Spanish. Am i good looking? Hell no!  But I know what I want, I know who I am and what I can offer a woman.

And if you want to travelt o Colombia and have success woth a good Colombian woman in or out of an agency or a web site, somehow you have to inkect reality, speak Spanish or date within your league or be clear and realistic aobut about your goals, ordo all three.

  
  

[bcc_1_2]

The problem as is that many men who come to Colombia are denenerate sex tourists or they are tourists who want to go out and have a good time, spend some money on a hot looking girl and take her back to their hotel room.

And if you want to stay in business... you've got to cater to your customers.

The fact is you've got to account for the differences between a city like Monterrey and Cali. The sheer volume of women who've been trained on the ways of the gringo gravy train in Cali is a lot higher than Monterrey... just south of the border.

In all seriousness if you walk into a posh club in Monterrey the women ignore the man you discribe. They simply don't show that guy the time of day. If he wants attention he heads to a cantina or strip club. In Cali he can find that attention in posh clubs frequented by locals. What said guy doesn't understand is... it is probably not honest interest.

Ah, FT... trying to make it about me being scorned by a colombian women. still clearly out of touch with how great young gringos have it... still trying to compete with them in your own mind I see. if you'd like to try... I highly suggest Monterrey for a reality check. That goes for anyone who believes they are GQ due to their trips to Colombia. Monterrey will give you a reality check... and maybe prevent you from getting gamed in the future.

[fathertime]

The personal introductions agencies do nt play a bg part and they are not machines for propagating prepagos. In any agency, there are women who are manipulative and opportunisitas, there are women are who terrifiic with good values and there is everthing in between.
 

I'm afraid I'm going to have to concur with Dennislevy on this one.

In all seriousness if you walk into a posh club in Monterrey the women ignore the man you discribe. They simply don't show that guy the time of day. If he wants attention he heads to a cantina or strip club. In Cali he can find that attention in posh clubs frequented by locals. What said guy doesn't understand is... it is probably not honest interest. {/quote]




Yes, clearly  I’m GQ’ish, my lovely avatar photo is proof of that!  I get a charge out of your attempts to change the landscape of the debate.  You are the one who said that it was ‘agencies that are the cause of the sugar daddy culture’ in Colombia.  Looks like you finally realize what a stupid statement that was and would like to change the subject now to the height of where I choose to wear my pants and my handsome looks. 

What a ridiculous proposition you have made.  Encouraging older posters to waste their vacation going to a trendy club in Mexico to prove to them they are worthless and any woman that are interested are out for something evil!  That’s quite alright, I encourage men to stick to Colombia over a trendy tourist nightclub. The average man has a higher chance of finding a genuine young babe, that is if they are able to navigate the genuine gals from the users.  Perhaps bCc and all his regurgitated wisdom has some more recommendations for us poor clueless older men.

Fathertime!

[dennislevy]

No, i disagrer..if you want to stay in busienss, you have to decide what kidn of customers you want and then cater to them....

The problem in Colombia with agencies...with a  couple of agencies excepted is that the owners both Colombiana dn american will take money from any slimeball witha credit card, the emphasis was getting money otday, and not buildi9ng a hiogher class malwe clientele with great service and referrals. And its one of (but not the only) reason that the agencies in Colombia are decyaing.

And those slimeballs complain that the agencies don t screen the women for the scammer,s, prepagos, etc. Por favor!!!!!!!

When I sold for an agency, I never took a man s  credit card until we had talked at least three or four times,,,,usually for several hours total. I wanted to have a rea dont he man before he came to Colombia.

[Knight11]

Question:

It seems bcc mentions MONTERREY like it is a marker for all things latina and a high end at that. I tend to find Mexicans (higher class ones) are as close to AMERICANS as you can get really.

Colombians seemed removed from our cutlure still (yes some influence) but its different...they even call mexicans "charros" to show that distinction.

Now granted, this is from my friends from University (MBAs, engineers, etc etc some English second lamgauge people) I dont think Monterrey is a good marker...

I am looking and I wouldnt go there really as a high end choice. Yet south america always comes up as a better place to find a wife. I bet the scammers % of the women is low compared to the overall % of women (which is extremely high). You have to take into account that high pop of females to males (4 to 1 i think) rather than just agenecies.

Thats why i am still looking into colombia as the place to find my wife... plus the culture is great at its heart... im not taking about "ADULT" sex crap... in general the people are fun and happy and the women I have known with boyfriends DIE for them and are super loyal... I WANT THAT...

ill know more when i go down there sometimes this year.

[Woody]

You have to take into account that high pop of females to males (4 to 1 i think) rather than just agenecies.

I'm not sure where you are looking. But let us look at the actual statistics:
Age structure:
0-14 years: 28.9% (male 6,679,701/female 6,522,976)
15-64 years: 65.4% (male 14,571,536/female 15,297,179)
65 years and over: 5.6% (male 1,103,391/female 1,469,240) (2009 est.)

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.03 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.02 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.95 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.75 male(s)/female
total population: 0.96 male(s)/female (2009 est.)

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/co.html

Versus the US:

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.75 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2009 est.)


You can see the numbers are nearly identical for ratios, except for the 15-64 age range (I really wish that they broke that into 10-year groups).

The facts are this: There are SLIGHTLY more women than men in the 15-64 range in Colombia. Now, we can take the OPINION of all involved here that, at the same time, those women are MUCH more approachable than an American woman.

So, do demographics play a role? Yes. How significant is impossible to qualify, I think the biggest factor to take into consideration is the CULTURAL difference. Dating is, in the end, a numbers game. You have to date enough women to eventually find someone that fits you, and you her. In Colombia, because of cultural differences, it is easier. There is no such thing as ONE soul mate. There are many people in life that will work perfectly together, the challenge is two of them finding and recognizing each other.

Anyone disagree with my stance on the subject?

[Quixote9]

Well UC, that is another thing that truly surprised me, I have never talked with a Colombiana that preferred to come to the US rather than us stay in Colombia. I was shocked by that. I thought they all would want to come to the US. But I think there is enough bad press about the US these days that they are not so excited about coming to the US. They are more interested in having the guy with some cash, whether he is Colombiano, Gringo, whoever. And they would prefer to live and spend that cash in Colombia, so they can show off in front of their family and friends and make them as envious as possible.

One of my ex's is from a very modest family outside of Cartagena. She married a guy from Switzerland who makes a very good living. And she is telling me she much rather stay in a modest apartment in Cartagena area rather than a much higher level of lifestyle in Switzerland.

The only place that I hear any of them prefer better than Colombia is Miami, and they only seem to like the idea of living there because they can return to Colombia in a couple hours' flight.

At least that has been my experience.

I have noticed EXACTLY the same thing.  For all the talk of greencard scammers, I haven't detected the least bit of interest in actually living in the USA from ANY of the girls I have dated there, they just want a man who wont cheat and has an American sized paycheck who can support them and their family in Colombia.  The only places they want to live in the USA are New York or Miami, and I suspect this is only from seeing all the reggaeton videos and telenovelas like Munecas de la Mafia that show posh nightclubs and extravagant lifestyles and Colombian girls partying every night in designer clothing.  Colombianas have no real knowledge of the rest of United States, and no real interest in learning more about the other 48 states except perhaps Hawaii for vacation perposes.

As my first Colombian girlfriend knew absolutely ziltch about Oregon, it was very easy for other guys trying to get into her pants to fill her head with ridiculous notions about where I live to convice her she would hate coming to live with me.  Appearantly everyone in my state is unfriendly and mean, hates Colombians, and we live a barren desolate frozen tundra with nothing to do all day but sit in our igloos and eat rocks and hide from polarbears... or at least that seemed to be her impression from what other gringos down there were telling her.  She decided to jump ship for a gringo living in Colombia since he "has partys in his apartment" and she was conviced (by him?) that there are never any parties or dancing or any kind of fun whatsoever in Oregon.  With my next girlfriend I made sure to buy up a ton of tourism DVDs about Oregon, photobooks of my state, and guide books to spark her interest in where I live and give her some idea of what life there is actually like.

[fathertime]

I’m afraid that I’m going to have to agree with Woody on this one.  That 4-1 man woman ratio is bogus and his thoughts about men and women makes complete sense to me. 

Regarding bCc and his silly diatribes about Monterry, you have to keep in mind he has a major bug up his ass regarding agencies, since he struck out pretty bad in Colombia despite how he wants to portray it now.  This was probably due to his lousy attitude and constant talk of scammers and prepagos with the ladies he was seeing.   

Going to Colombia with your eyes open is important though because there are plenty of really good looking babes that are might scam you.  I passed over quite a few myself, not because they weren’t beautiful, but because I could sense that something just did not seem right from my perspective.  I’m certain I tossed a couple winners to the sidelines, but it was all a part of the process and I don’t regret it.  Try to keep this in mind, there are women that have strictly self motivation at heart and they are to be left for somebody else.  Amonst all this there are a lot of woman that will be loyal, innocent, devoted wives, so if you want an adventure with the potential for a lady, then get your ass down to Colombia, or another S. American country asap.    Don’t be afraid to use one of those ‘big bad agencies’ especially if it has a good reputation from past users!

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

I have noticed EXACTLY the same thing.  For all the talk of greencard scammers, I haven't detected the least bit of interest in lactually iving in the USA from ANY of the girls I have dated there, they just want a man who wont cheat and has an American sized paycheck who can support them and their family in Colombia.  The only places they want to live in the USA are New York or Miami, and I suspect this is only from seeing all the reggaeton videos and telenovelas like Munecas de la Mafia that show posh nightclubs and extravagant lifestyles and Colombian girls partying every night in designer clothing.  Colombianas have no real knowledge of the rest of United States, and no real interest in learning more about the other 48 states except perhaps Hawaii for vacation perposes.

As my first Colombian girlfriend knew absolutely ziltch about Oregon, it was very easy for other guys trying to get into her pants to fill her head with ridiculous notions about where I live to convice her she would hate coming to live with me.  Appearantly everyone in my state is unfriendly and mean, hates Colombians, and we live a barren desolate frozen tundra with nothing to do all day but sit in our igloos and eat rocks and hide from polarbears... or at least that seemed to be her impression from what other gringos down there were telling her.  She decided to jump ship for a gringo living in Colombia since he "has partys in his apartment" and she was conviced (by him?) that there are never any parties or dancing or any kind of fun whatsoever in Oregon.  With my next girlfriend I made sure to buy up a ton of tourism DVDs about Oregon, photobooks of my state, and guide books to spark her interest in where I live and give her some idea of what life there is actually like.

Yoyo Quixote,

I can tell by the tone of your posts you are a helluva lot more ready for these Colombian babes then you were the first time around with that scammer that made you grab your ankles.  Good luck with the new woman!

I gotta agree with you and Alabamaboy! Although I dragged my woman away from Barranquilla, she would prefer we lived in Colombia, but she won't go back without me now.  So she lives here DESPITE it not being Colombia, not BECAUSE it is the USA. 

Fathertime!

[Quixote9]

Now, we can take the OPINION of all involved here that, at the same time, those women are MUCH more approachable than an American woman.

So, do demographics play a role? Yes. How significant is impossible to qualify, I think the biggest factor to take into consideration is the CULTURAL difference. Dating is, in the end, a numbers game. You have to date enough women to eventually find someone that fits you, and you her. In Colombia, because of cultural differences, it is easier. There is no such thing as ONE soul mate. There are many people in life that will work perfectly together, the challenge is two of them finding and recognizing each other.

Anyone disagree with my stance on the subject?

Well... the cultural difference that Colombian women act more overtly feminine and are much more "aproachable" than american women is a double edged sword.  All the women I met down there were very aproachable... even though I would later find that they already had boyfriends... and most likely any girl you date is down there is going to act very aproachable to other guys while you are away.  It is just the way they are, they just don't blow off guys who aproach them and will usualy smile and flirt back with guys who try and pick them up... would probably consider it rude not to actually. 

[Alabamaboy!]

I will tell you another cultural difference. Most Colombian guys do not want to be in exclusive relationships. They do not necessarily want to get married either. They are content living at their family's home, and dating like 10 different girls without any strings attached. As long as you are not engaged or married, you are off the hook for any real committment in regards to money, support for the family, etc.

So, although there are almost the same number of men as women floating around there, the percentage of females looking to get married is probably about 98% and the percentage of guys looking to get married is probably closer to 33%. And many of the guys work out of town in the drug trade, fighting the drug trade, the military,  or in other industry outside of the area.

Add that all up and it makes for a perfect storm for decent looking, financially stable,  relatively honest guys like ourselves.

[bcc_1_2]

It seems bcc mentions MONTERREY like it is a marker for all things latina and a high end at that. I tend to find Mexicans (higher class ones) are as close to AMERICANS as you can get really.

You hear the same things about Santiago, Chile and Buenos Aires, Argentina... as being too close to Europe. Yet I don't think the women of Monterrey are Americanized or the women of Chile and Argentina Europeanized.

However the women are more likely to have some options... which makes courting a woman out of your league quite challenging. That doesn't mean a girl from Monterrey is a feminazi... but it is much easier to classify her as one... rather than take a look in the mirror.

That being said Buenos Aires is an expensive city and I never planned a chica hunt there. But Monterrey is a fabulous place to meet nice young ladies who would be very pleased to meet a nice young educated American. When guys ask me where to visit... Monterrey tops my list as a suggestion for them.

As for Cali... I couldn't strike out if I tried. I made the challenging decision not to a continue a relationship with a very stunning young lady. I'm sure I would have mentioned her in past posts... if you doubt.

[sean126]

BCC....you actually have a bug up your butt?

[utopiacowboy]

Question:

It seems bcc mentions MONTERREY like it is a marker for all things latina and a high end at that. I tend to find Mexicans (higher class ones) are as close to AMERICANS as you can get really.

Colombians seemed removed from our cutlure still (yes some influence) but its different...they even call mexicans "charros" to show that distinction.

Now granted, this is from my friends from University (MBAs, engineers, etc etc some English second lamgauge people) I dont think Monterrey is a good marker...

I am looking and I wouldnt go there really as a high end choice. Yet south america always comes up as a better place to find a wife. I bet the scammers % of the women is low compared to the overall % of women (which is extremely high). You have to take into account that high pop of females to males (4 to 1 i think) rather than just agenecies.

Thats why i am still looking into colombia as the place to find my wife... plus the culture is great at its heart... im not taking about "ADULT" sex crap... in general the people are fun and happy and the women I have known with boyfriends DIE for them and are super loyal... I WANT THAT...

ill know more when i go down there sometimes this year.

I agree. I really enjoy Monterrey - the city has a spectacular setting and the people are great. On the weekends everyone gets outdoors with their families or is exercising. However, it is NOT a place that I would look for a wife. It's very Americanized in many ways.

[michaelb]

I am looking and I wouldnt go there really as a high end choice. Yet south america always comes up as a better place to find a wife. I bet the scammers % of the women is low compared to the overall % of women (which is extremely high). You have to take into account that high pop of females to males (4 to 1 i think) rather than just agenecies.

Four to one? I don't think so....but here's a place where there's two swinging honeys for every guy, and all you gotta do is just wink your eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMyFe81FUg

Funny, the cover shows just the opposite, doesn't it?

[Knight11]

Well instead of quoting government white papers that probably are a guess based on 100 people they counted (and i dount they went down and counted the people) before you call someone WRONG please do more research. If it can be proven they went out into the little cities and towns and pueblos... Ill retract this statement. i just find so much misinformation spread all the time...is this the same people who put in UMBRA law?

Colombia is KNOWN to have a high female to male raito. It is destablizaing their country and why the males holda lot of power besides being a patriarchal society. And my information comes from the people who live there not some arcahic government sheet.

The US government also tells everyone never to travel to Colombia because youll be kidnapped when you step off the plane steps. But that is not true as well.

If you want to be successfull you have to really find out what is reality and what is generic stats. Otherwise youll wind up in situations you can read about in previous posts here -- alot of relationship failure, loss, and heartache in the back archive forum posts here.

I am realistic person I dont hide anything and sugar coat situations going down there unprepared will get you into trouble for sure. Just realy research.

[michaelb]

I seriously doubt that anyone actually living in Colombia told you there are four women for every man, unless they were spoofing you.

Did they count everybody? No, of course not. Our forthcoming census isn't going to county everybody either. And who passed a law about shadows? What's that all about, are they requiring them, forbidding them or taxing them?

[utopiacowboy]

I have to laugh at these 4 women to every man stories. In our dreams, yes.

[fathertime]

Back to the original topic here.  I found out some information about the "Scammer and the false American husband"

She IS paying him money, she has paid him 1/2 already and 1/2 sometime after she arrives...the amount is in somewhere around 10k total. 
She is having all sorts of problems with figuring out her paperwork on her end and he doesn't give a frog's fat ass if she figures it out or not.  Her interview is set for sometime next month from what I can gather. My woman has known this lady for a period of years I guess, and says she has had terrible luck with men throughout her life...

 Let's see how much 'luck' she has at the embassy!

Fathertime!  

[Pivery]

 FT, she is really paying some ding-dong 10k to pull this off?

Wow, that's wacky...I can't imagine going through all that trouble without it being for real love. Oh well, to each his/her own I guess.
If the she-dragon is having problems I hope your lady isn't giving her any pointers, this whole charade really should just go down in flames.

Pivery