Just friends??????/

[soltero]

Soltero...of course I mentioned 20 year old guys.  Have you been to many clubs in Colombia?  What do you think the average age is?  Where do you think these girls are going out when they go?  To the old folks home for knitting lessons?

Yes, I have been to one or two with friends. I really didn't pay much attention to who else was there as I was only there because my friends wanted to go. Clubs bore the hell out of me. I used to go so much back in the day, that now, I have no use for them at all. I realized a long time ago that no one I would be serious about would be found in a club in the States, so I apply that same (personal) philosophy in Colombia (or wherever else).

And another thing...the women I had dated in the 25-32 age group were almost equal to the the younger ones....with two cell phones....all the other things I mentioned.

So I guess I am to assume since you brought up the fact that these women (in this age group) act the same way, then you are dating mostly the younger ones? What, pray tell, would be a reason to expect maturity from them? As far as the cell phones, what the other posters stated about the different services makes sense, so I don't see what the problem with that could be.

Surely if you are dating the younger ones, you realize they are going to be more trouble just because they are probably just getting some freedom and know absolutely nothing about anything. I can see the MUCH older guys maybe going for a young trophy wife, but why would a guy still relatively young just want something that will only be able to lay around the house? I am not old enough yet where I need/want a companion, I need/want a fully functioning wife...

[fathertime]

Hey Machin!

Try to lighten up a bit.  As you can see this place can be a bit like a locker room.  You will get good opinions mixed in with a little mockery, which is the norm.  Not too many of us are saints (except for Chris F) and/or nuns so sometimes posters get a kick out of a little harmless teasing.  The tolerance & humor you display here will be good practice for the babe you bring back from one of these S. American trips.  You will need plenty of tolerance and humor to keep a marriage together!

Good luck & don't take offence!
Fathertime!

[DallasSteve]

Machin

I'm sorry if my post was over the top.  I'll try to be serious for a moment.

You started about 6 threads which seemed to all be directed toward "Are Colombian women really good wife material?"  Can anybody really answer a question like that scientifically?  I think your best responses were the first ones that said basically "If you can't find a good wife in Colombia you need to check out your personality and your process for finding a wife."  I second that answer.  I don't know if that shoe fits, but if it does....

I've failed twice with Colombianas so I'm not trying to say that I'm better at this than you.  I don't think the problem was Colombia as much as it was me.  But I don't regret the adventure.  The last 10 years have been very interesting, if a little expensive.  Can you improve your odds by going to some other country?  Not much.  Some guys will tell you that you can, but they're probably guys who have "issues", IMO. 

And, yes, I think women like to laugh.  I know that I do.  At least I laughed a lot with my Colombian wives.  Laughter is almost as good as sex.  Really.

Steve

[singlefather no more]

Hello Okieman , I mean hello machine69 . lol

Are you a bean counter or a IRS agent ? Do you live in Oklahoma ?

Relax man and take it easy.. We are joking around !! Don't take it seriously.. You need a good sense of humor to survive in LA..

Many of these guys have been on this board for 5 + years.. They keep posting to help guys like you.. I have been reading this board since the Fall of 2004 and posting on and off since then..

If you are open and don't take offense to some gentle ribbing these guys will go overboard trying to help you..

In regards to Jaime he is a A + guy and agency owner but he will admit that he does not have many of these posters hands on experience and does not speak much Spanish..

I would pay very close attention to what Soltero , Dalles Steve , fathertime , sean126 , Researcher , UTC , KB and others say.. Most of them speak spanish very well and have been around the block a few times..

Dave H from the Asian is a good guy but he has been waiting for the last 2 weeks for his Viagra prescription to be filled and he is a little frustrated.. I hope he does not try the  vacuum cleaner ”get it up” trick again.. He was in the hospital for 2 days after that muttering it wont go down now.. A very painful experience..

See we cut each other up also and I have taken some good natured ribbing from the
Guys also on occasion..

Relax , read the archives and pay attention and you will do fine..

Keep in mind a lot of these guys have answered each one of your questions at east 200 times to newbies , so take it in stride that they like to add in some humor.

If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen , Guys do not hand hold here and feel sorry for anyone.. They will jump on guys on occasion and get him to wake up and smell the coffee..

Good luck ,

singlefather

..

[Dave H]

I am not a club person and have no use for them either. BTDT!!! Probably unfounded today, but I think I would be scared to go into a Colombian club, based on my experiences back in the day with the Cocaine Cowboys in South Florida!  There was a big  Colombian nightclub in the city where I worked. People were machine gunned inside, so they beefed up security, frisked patrons, and put a metal detector at the door. Then murders increased in the parking lot. Next they searched the cars before they entered the parking lot. The Cowboys just took care of business off the premises. Our record for a survivor was nine bullet holes...must not have been the intended target. 

Is anyone here into Paso Fino horses? Sure to impress any potential father-in-law!
Amazing horse, very smooth ride!

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sSgdj8-3rk

[singlefather no more]

"Wow...you guys are funny."

Thank you and gracias..

Sean...talking about how good your judgement is....but yet you had mentioned before in other posts you had been "played" before by other Colombianas right?

Sean judgement is great and he has a wonderful and beautiful wife.. He is A + in my book.. Sean did a great job of weeding through all the women and finding a great wife and if you do what he did you can do the same..

I would not be challenging his judgement as he is the one that has a good marriage to a Colombiana and you have......

Soltero...of course I mentioned 20 year old guys.  Have you been to many clubs in Colombia?  What do you think the average age is?  Where do you think these girls are going out when they go?  To the old folks home for knitting lessons?

Are you looking for a wife or just to get laid with hot girls ? Pay attention to the girls family and how she acts with them and how mature the girl is..

Watch and observe then woman you are with and if you don't like her actions kick her to the curb.. end of story..

The questions I asked were good.  And I received a lot of good information. That was very useful.  Thanks from the guys who answered with an aim to help, rather than be wise guys.

We are wise guys here and we aim to help.. Get the chip off your shoulder if you want to get the help here.. A lot of guys have been brutally honest with you and challenging you so they can see what you are all about..

The wise guys have been very straight forward with you and if you dont want to crash and burn pay attention to what they write and say..

What seems kind of strange to me...curious to me...is why grown men would be sitting around in the middle of the day trying to clown on a person asking simple questions.

I am not going to answer questions if I can't have a little fun once in a while.. These guys having been taking their time to answer your 6 threads..

I have a lot of experience in Colombia...yes...and am wanting to know if the things I am seeing are usual....or unusual.  I have seen these things in a lot of the women there.  So I am wondering if I am beating my head against the wall or not. Because I have not met these girls only in the agencies...or from the "trailer trash" areas as one poster put it.  Many are at least upper middle class. And I see the same kind of things.  I have been to several cities.

Go to Peru I advise then if you want to try something different.. Read my threads from March..

And Sean...why are you so "curious and perplexed" with my statements...which are all just truthful observations....not my attitudes or opinions....but you do not say the same thing to Jamie who has more experience with these women than all of you put together???

Then call up Jaime and don't waste our time if you dont respect us.. Your last sentence is incorrect by a wide margin..

It seems you guys just get your thrills like this. 

It does get funny after answering the same questions many times and guys get pig headed and dont listen and they crash and burn..

It is fine I guess....but I am really trying to get some useful information.  I thought that was what the forum was for.

Yes lots of useful information here and relax..

Have a great day ,

singlefather

..

[Alabamaboy!]

Sean,

First let me answer your questions:

1. I am engaged to a Colombian because of course I did not have any problems at first. I did not see all the things that did not make sense to me.  I did not ask her to handle responsibilities at that time....so I did not see that she has some problems in these areas.  Of course I am a little negative in this time because there are some problems in the relationship.  Do you think I will be posting, asking questions if things are fine and dandy?  

Your thoughts that I should have asked the questions before I saw that there were problems is crazy! Why would I be asking questions if everything was fine?

When you were being played in your past relationships....did you know it before you spent a lot of time with her??? Of course not...only afterward.  I am trying to ask the questions now to prevent getting played. Because as you can testify....it is possible.

And thanks to the postings by some of the members...I have some great information that explains a lot of things...and now things are not as "negative" as I thought.  Exactly the results I had hoped for with my questions.

For example about the two cell phones.....here in the States....it is obviously a big red flag.  But in Colombia I have now learned it is not a big deal.

Even with the lying.  That Jamie and others explained that the lying is kind of normal...but non-malicious for the most part.  Thanks for the info!  I am glad I asked the question.  Was that negative?

2.  Of course I trusted her at the beginning.  Doesn't everyone trust the person they are getting engaged with?  If I did not trust her in that time I would have been stupid to get engaged.  But over time (8 trips in a year) things surface that make you wonder.  And for that reason I asked the questions I did.  You cannot predict the future.  And I did not predict the things to happen that caused the deterioration in the trust.  Nobody can.

3.  Well, I cannot say it was easy....but it was not hard either. I can tell you it was less than 3 weeks wait if that answers your question.  But others were much easier.  

And to re-state why I put so much weight on the responses of Jamie....more than yours or other posters.....is he has heard the good, the bad, and the ugly of everything that can possibly happen in Colombia.  He has huge experience compared to any of us.  Even if it is only hearing the stories of his clients....or of the girls in his agency.  Nobody else has that kind of information and experience.  Especially in Barranquilla where I have spent the most of my time.

So when he makes essentially the same comments...or in many cases much more blunt.  And with both of us...it is not opinion generated....but rather direct observations....how can you possibly jump on me and not say a word about him?  And don't say it is because it is because I asked the questions...because I have been here long enough to know that everyone is fair game whether they asked the question or not.

I am not mad at you or anyone else. But for me at this particular time in the process...it is pretty serious stuff that will affect many people's lives.  I have two kids....and do not want to make any errors.  So if I am not exactly in a real funny guy mood....sorry for that.  And I do not want to get my girl in a jam either....over her head and not be able to have success here in the States.  I am worried about her as much as myself.  So if that is negative.....

[singlefather no more]

machine69 ,

Are you a single father ?

singlefather

..

[Alabamaboy!]

Singlefather,

If I did what you suggested and kicked her to the curb when I saw things I did not like I would have made a big mistake wouldn't I? Because since I asked these questions and received some good answers....I now know some of the concerns I had were unfounded.  Concerning the cell phones...the non-malicious white lies.

I am listening and being polite unless someone is jumping me.  

If it was just a game and I did not have kids and it was not going to cause a lot of huge changes to many people's lives....I guess I could be a little more light hearted and funny guy like you guys are suggesting.  But it is a pretty serious time right now for me.  

Maybe later it will not be and it will be a little easier to take some good humored ribbing.

And I did not say I did not respect other people's postings....only that Jamie carries more weight than the others....in my opinion....based on his business and the unique position he has to see both sides of the picture. And because of the sheer volume.  Anyone who cannot see that his imput is very important....is not playing with a full deck!

[soltero]

So when he makes essentially the same comments...or in many cases much more blunt.  And with both of us...it is not opinion generated....but rather direct observations....how can you possibly jump on me and not say a word about him?  And don't say it is because it is because I asked the questions...because I have been here long enough to know that everyone is fair game whether they asked the question or not.

You really have to follow that link Jamie posted if it goes back to the original thread. He took an undeserved trouncing over his opinion then, if I recall correctly...I happen to appreciate bluntness, so I could understand what he was saying, but that thread got out of hand when a few posters got upset by his delivery and completely missed his valid points...

[catz]

You started about 6 threads which seemed to all be directed toward "Are Colombian women really good wife material?"  Can anybody really answer a question like that scientifically?

Where the hell is Doombug? We need specific scientific statistics here. Now! 

[singlefather no more]

machine ,

You are engaged .. I missed that before.. Now if you are a single father of 2 kids then you have to be very careful for your kids sake..

How interested is she in your kids ? Is she happy to be a future step mother ?

Things to look our for with Latinas when you have kids..

1) She should ask everytime you talk about your kids and how are they.. Usually within the first minute of chatting..

2) She should ask lots of questions about your kids..

3) She should not view your kids as competition.. Big red flag if she does..

4) She should always tell you to kiss them for her..

5) Does she and your kids communicate with her ? Green flag if they both do..

I will post more later..

singlefather

..

[Alabamaboy!]

Singlefather,

Yes...I am a single father...I have an 8 year old son who is with me every night when I get off work...and I have him all the time...every weekend until Monday morning.  I also have a 2 year old daughter who I see frequently and will spend more time with when she gets a little bigger.

1.  Yes...she always asks about the children....almost immediately with every call or MSN session.  She loves children.  And she wants to have kids with me too.  As I do. She always asks to see them on the webcam too.

2. Yes she does

3. No she does not

4. Yes...she does...without fail.

5.  Yes my son talks to her and writes to her at times when we are connected on MSN with the webcam

NO problems with the children for sure.

That is something I found so refreshing....that all of the Colombians love children....and none had any problems with the fact I have children. 

[sean126]

Machin69,

I appreciate you answering my questions.  I really wish you success in your relationship.  If I could just draw your attention to two little themes that keeps coming up again and again and again when people over analyze things......without sounding condescending:

1. at the end of the day you need to decide for yourself without asking, "is this normal?".  If it is or isn't is not the point.  The point would be if it bothers you or not.  Cultural, normal, insane or whatever....if it is something you don't like or feel comfortable with, then (even though it's not wrong, per se) maybe the particular person isn't for you.  If you take other's advice, but aren't completely comfortable with it yourself...she will drive you crazy, paranoid and overly suspicious for no reason.

2.  Women are Women are Women are Women....all over the world, no matter where they come from.  Colombia, Peru, Costa Rica, Brazil, ect....is not some magical, mythical place where the women are of a different species.  They may have different games or value one or two things differently.... but they are all the same. 

[Alabamaboy!]

thanks for the input Sean

[Jamie]

What appears to me a key point that you have only slightly mentioned is her lack of “responsibility” and it is a problem that I am still dealing with. How do you teach someone to be responsible who never had to be responsible and has always been given things.  You have had to work hard and be responsible to run a successful business at an intensity beyond what most of these women can understand.  So your expectation (while probably very reasonable) are higher than anything she has had to measure up to. There are not much demands placed on the children here from the parents or the teachers. Most likely you are going to need a support group like her parents and other people to be saying the same things you are saying in terms of where she needs to be.

[utopiacowboy]

"2.  Of course I trusted her at the beginning.  Doesn't everyone trust the person they are getting engaged with?  If I did not trust her in that time I would have been stupid to get engaged.  But over time (8 trips in a year) things surface that make you wonder.  And for that reason I asked the questions I did.  You cannot predict the future.  And I did not predict the things to happen that caused the deterioration in the trust.  Nobody can."

This is your problem right here. You don't trust at the beginning. You trust at the END after she has EARNED that trust. You don't just assume that she is trustworthy without any evidence that she is. If so, you're asking to be played like a cheap violin. You've got the tail wagging the dog. 

[Dave H]

Dave H from the Asian is a good guy but he has been waiting for the last 2 weeks for his Viagra prescription to be filled and he is a little frustrated.. I hope he does not try the  vacuum cleaner ”get it up” trick again.. He was in the hospital for 2 days after that muttering it wont go down now.. A very painful experience..

Hi singlefather,

That's what I get for trying to buy cheap prescription drugs through Canada!

That is one pill the doctors don't have me on. I guess they are afraid that if I got an erection too quickly, I would go unconscious from lack of perfusion to my brain! 

If any one here is taking Viagra make sure that you take it with a lot of water! If it gets stuck in your throat, you will get a very stiff neck! 


A man finally gets his prescription for Viagra. Anxious to try it out, he takes one as soon as he gets home, and waits for his wife to come home from work, but, in his excitement he forgets and leaves the package open on the table and his cockatiel eats all of them.

Seeing the results and panicking the man grabs the bird and stuffs him into the freezer to cool off.

Just as his wife comes home, the Viagra kicks in and it's hours later before he remembers the cockatiel. He runs and looks in the freezer expecting the worst, only to find the bird breathing heavily, drained with sweat and totally exhausted.

"What happened?" the man asks, "You were in there for hours and yet you're not only alive but you're sweating like crazy?"

The cockatiel pants: "Man, have you ever tried to pry apart the legs of a frozen chicken?"


Q: What is the difference between your first honeymoon and your second?
A: The first: Niagara; the second: Viagra.


Q: What do Viagra and Disney World have in common?
A: A one-hour wait for a two-minute ride.

Q:Did you hear about the first death from an overdose of Viagra?
A: A man took twelve pills and his wife died.

Q: Did you hear about the man that died from taking Viagra?
A: It was terrible; they buried him in an open casket.

Q: Did you hear about the new Viagra computer virus?
A: It turns your floppy disk into a hard drive.

[Ray]

   

[michaelb]

Q: What is the difference between your first honeymoon and your second?
A: The first: Niagara; the second: Viagra.

And from the words of an old song: "Let's go again to Niagara, this time we'll look at the falls."

Waiter, I want to see the manager, I demand a refund!
What seems to be the problem, sir?
I was in here last night and had a dozen oysters.
Yes? And?
One of 'em didn't work.

[Researcher]

   Machin69,
            I took my time searching for a woman.I wondered about several different things.At one point I wondered if one culture or country was better than another for finding a wife.I thought that you were at this same point by reading the questions you were asking so I decided to tell you what  my experience was.Then I read that you were engaged and I have to admit, I started to wonder why you would ask these questions.(these were things I wondered about before I got engaged).
         
            Now that I have read your more recent posts, I understand.(or I think I understand).What you are trying to do is understand your lady by learning more about her culture.Maybe you are thinking that the problems you are having may be more a matter of misunderstanding. I hope I have that right and if I do I commend your efforts.You obviously care about this relationship and are trying to make it work.

          So, generally speaking I would say that it is common for people in Colombia to tell lies. Soltero "hit the nail on the head" when he said that it was mostly to avoid confrontation.

          Having two cell phones is something I have seen quite a bit.I think that it is because there are two major phone companies there.(someone said that earlier but I also found that to be true).

          Having alot of guy friends and being easy to get in the sack? My experience is that there are some women that do this and some that don't.I wouldn't call this a common thing.During the time I was searching for a wife, these things were turn offs to me.I didn't want to marry a party girl or a woman that needed alot of attention from guys.Although some guys don't have a problem with that(and there is nothing wrong with it), it just wasn't what I wanted.

         I think you only wanted to know about other's experiences so I'll just stop here and say I hope things work out for the best in your situation.No, I don't own an agency like Jamie but I did spend ALOT of time "in the trenches". I didn't find this forum until after I met my wife but I did get to know alot of guys that were looking just like me and I learned quite a bit from them along the way.
         

[Alabamaboy!]

Researcher,

Thanks man.  Yeah that is exactly the info I was looking for. And the situation I am in.  I am trying to see if this relationship is able to be salvaged or not.  Because all the things are kind of like that....two cells, occasional white lies, things like that. 

So now I am understanding things a lot better.

Thanks.

[Alabamaboy!]

Utopia Cowboy,

I think you are right.  It is one of my faults.  I never imagine that the other person is not going to follow through on the things they promise...especially when the things are so easy.

Thanks

[Alabamaboy!]

Jamie.....

That is the word RESPONSIBILITY.  That is where the problem is.

Let me give a long example and let me know what you guys think.

OK I just got engaged to my novia...everything looks good.  I like the family. She seems wonderful. Everyone is talking about education, family, good things like that.

For me, when I am making a committment to marry someone, it is very serious.  But it is like a contract.  I have responsibilities to do things. And she does too.  And whatever I agree to do....that is the responsibility...no matter how small or big it is.  And her too. Once it has been discussed...everyone knows what they need to do.

So my responsibility that I took on was pretty large.  I agreed to help my girl, her mother, and brother move to a much better apartment.  The one she was living in was Estrato 2 and they moved to Estrato 5. I did not do it because I wanted to "buy" her or anything like that. I wanted better safety for them....and for myself too because I would be travelling there frequently.  And for sure we needed more space.  The old apartment cost $100 per month had one bedroom and a living room. She slept in the same twin bed as her mother. Her brother slept in the other twin bed in the same room.  The new apartment cost $300.  It has three bedrooms, two baths, security. Nice views. Dining room. Patio. Very nice. But not outrageous.

And before anyone jumps me for helping her out like this (like my business partner did)...remember I was engaged to be married.  And I make pretty good money.  And I feel anyone who would leave their women in an unsafe situation just to save a few bucks is a tightwad.  And for myself to have safety also...I thought it was worth it.

Anyway.....I also took on the responsibility of paying for the English classes.  I knew the visa process would take only 6-9 months. So I wanted an intensive program. Not the 5 year Colombo program or something like that. Because my son especially needs to be able to communicate well with her. And for her to have success with anything here she needs a certain level of English.

So I at first I paid for private lessons at Jamie's business.  I cannot remember what it cost.....maybe $440 a month or something. For 10 hours a week.  I thought it was a little expensive. But it was one on one.  So I expected good results.

Well the results were not so great.  And I talked to the intstructor to see what was going on.  She told me my girl was not doing all the homework many times and was not giving 100% effort!  I could not believe it!  And remember the lessons cost much more than her apartment. Probably much more than her mother earns in a whole month.  And my girl was not working.  Only going to the University 1/2 days for additional studying for accounting or something.

So my girl tells me it was because she was going to the University at the same time and could not concentrate on both.  So I told her, sorry but the University has to stop now.  She needs to speak English. And she can study at the University later when she is in the US.  But if she cannot speak English....the whole relationship is probably going to fail.

OK....so I think everything is fixed now.  But.......no....it still seems like she is not making much progress for someone who is studying so much (supposedly). Especially since she is not working or going to the University. So I call the instructor again. And she tells me she is doing a little better, but still not finishing the homework at times and seems to have a hard time putting 100% effort and attention on the classes.

I even went to the classes on a few occasions....they are held in the living room of Jamie's business....which is kind of like a house.  But I noticed my girl was highly distracted by the other people passing through the office......answering phone calls from her mother......and when I would leave to go for a walk...she would call me every 20 minutes or so...to "check" on me. So again, not so responsible.  One day she even took her friend with her and was kind of talking to her during the classes at times.

So after 4 out of 5 calls to the instructor that said she was performing less than what she should....I told her I was discontinuing the classes.  It was kind of a waste of money. Or at least not very efficient.

OK so now I am kind of mad.  Here I am working hard every day. Paying the apartment, the classes, doing all my responsibilities...and she is not. And even she sees her mother working everyday and brother studying so hard at the University. And I feel she is not keeping her end of the bargain.

So I give her another chance. Thinking that maybe she just cannot concentrate well with distactions or something.  I have this great idea.  I buy a laptop....for about $800....load it with Rosetta Stone software ....about $450....and another more typical software program with lots of vocabulary and grammer....about $100.  And I tell her....that she has a new "job".  It is her responsibility to "work" like I am...her mother is....and everyone else in the world does.  She needs to study 8 hours a day on the computer.  And if she does that...I am positive she will be able to speak English well enough to survive here.  She can practice alot with me on the phone everynight...I have Vonage. Even her family can use the programs too.

So some people thought I was crazy.  "8 hours is a long time". But I thought it was pretty reasonable for someone who has no other responsibilities...no work...no University.  And who needs the English to survive here anyway.  I thought she would be happy to do it.

Well in the end...she made pretty good progress...but not good enough for someone studying 8 hours a day for sure.  And she finally "came clean" and told me she was not studying 8 hours a day.....more like 4-6 hours.  And even her best friend told me she was giving about 80% effort, not 100%.

So that is the real reason I came unglued and basically cut everything with her.  Because she did not do her responsibilities. 

So I had paid for the apartment for 6 months.....it is ending soon. 

I have not been sending any other money to her.

I told her things were over.

But the immigration papers are ready ....she just needs to take the interview.  But she needs to have my affadavit of support papers.  And I do not want to continue at this time because I did not have full confidence in her anymore.

So we are kind of in limbo.....because she is still begging me to give her a chance. But I don't want to be a sucker anymore either.

She has never had responsibilities like this before...I realize that. But I do not need more problems here in my life....I would like to have fewer problems.

[singlefather no more]

machin69,

You have to go with your gut instinct.. If your gut and mind are saying this is bull[snip] then go with it.. I am very sorry that you have to go through this but it is better now this happens then 2 years down the road..

This girl sounds very immature to me and does not take responsibility seriously..

If you decide to end this relationship and look again this is what I would do..

Find a University educated woman that is working.. It takes a lot of work and study to get through University.. If a woman has not worked before she has no concept of hard work and bills..

There are lots of University Educated woman that work..

After this be very picky in what you are looking for and take your time..

Good Luck,

singlefather

..