Gift giving in The Philippines

[indaycare]

BTW, there is an old Filipino saying that claims that a girl is ready for marriage when she has mastered the task of cooking perfect rice.   

LOL! my mom used to say that..... and if u can't mastered the task someday your husband might leave you 

indaycare

[z_k_g]

You think that so many men bought a catalog from Cherry Blossoms and the like in the 70s up to 1985 that Marcos and the Philippine Cngress changed the law for 90 million to "protect" a few thousand from Joe?

Jhengs,

Short answer is yes. 

But the full answer is much more complicated and was not an isolated issue of a few thousand pinays marrying a few elderly Joe's.

The changes and revisions in this, and many other laws, was part of a larger and more complex issue dealing with Filipino pride and the perception that foreigners were exploiting Filipinos in general.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Ray,

I'm a student of history, and here are some facts to amuse you even more!

Some of this stuff you come up with is really funny. I love your imagination… LOL!

Sometimes the truth can be pretty amusing!  

Jh made a good point, but you’re even farther off the mark than he alluded to.

I'm RIGHT ON the mark, the history behind the revision of this law is quite compelling.

The fact is, the extensive revision of the law was the result a popular backlash against foreigners (US) led by the anti Marco populists politicians after the election of Corazon Aquino in 1986.

The People's Power Revolution of 1986 (modeled after Martin Luther Kings non-violent civil rights movement) generated a lot of national filipino pride.  This movement compelled the Philippine government to push through legislation that reclaimed authority from what was seen as controlled by foreigners (United States) allowed by the previous corrupted Marcos regime.

The revision of the existing code and many new laws were specifically targeted at "foreigners" to prevent any marriages to pinays under 18 (mail order brides) and more comprehensively to tackle the overall exploitation of filipino women.

Two of the most public and hotly debated of these issues had to do with:

1. Exploitation of overseas workers
2. Exploitation of young women (Foreigners wedding young pubescent pinays or Mail Order Brides)

In response to these two emotional issues, the legislature quickly began rewriting  and revising existing statues and introduced new laws to resolve these "abuses" that were allowed and tolerated under the pro foreigner Marcos regime.

Ray cites the Civil code of 1949, which was modeled after most of the western statutes of the same era.

These laws regarding parental consent and advice had NOTHING to do any public outcry over foreigners marrying young mail order brides. In fact these provisions were in affect over 60 years ago before there ever was a “mail order bride” phenomenon. This is a cultural thing based on Filipino societal and family norms like jh mentioned.

The Civil Code of 1949 is almost identical in the legal language requiring consent/advice of parents before a marriage license could be issued. The main difference was the specific ages of the parties back then.

Before the mid-80’s, the minimum marriage age was 16 for males and 14 for females.

Parental consent was required for males under 20 and females under 18.

Affirmative parental advice was required for males 20-25 and for females 18-23. Lack of positive advice meant an additional wait of 3 months back then also.

Ray, So.....Why was the statue updated and revised in 1988 and not rewritten in 1958, 1968 or 1978?  

What was the driving force that compelled the legislature to rewrite good solid civil code in 1988 that had been effective for over 40 years?

Well, the historical evidence strongly indicates, this code (and many other laws) were rewritten because of the post Marcos "anti foreigner (US)" backlash.

The emotional public demanded the laws be corrected, and to prevent "foreigners" from what they saw as the exploitation of their young women allowed by the previous corrupt regime.  

The rewritten statues were explicit:

"Marriage applicants who are age 18 to 21 must have parental consent in writing, those age 21 to 25 must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry). The revised Family Code of the Philippines, which took effect on August 4, 1988, prohibits marriage for individuals below the age of 18."

Filipinos never again wanted a foreigner to marry a 14 year old pinay, even with the parents permission, and made it illegal to marry anyone under 18 in the Philippines in 1988.

The next item on the populist agenda was the overall exploitation of the Filipino by foreigners. Over the next 10 years, bill after bill was introduced and passed in the legislature to address these hot issues.

Aspects of trafficking in women are dealt with in RA 6955, otherwise known as the Mail Order Bride Law, signed into law by President Corazon C. Aquino on 13 June 1990. The law defines the practice of matching Filipino women for marriage to foreign nationals on a mail-order-bride basis and similar practices, as a crime punishable by life-imprisonment.

RA 7610 deals with the abuse of minors, usually by foreign pedophiles, and provides punishment.

RA 8042, or the Migrant Workers and Overseas Filipino Act of 1995, deals partially with the crime of illegal recruitment which sometimes victimizes women migrants.

Because of the growing number of cases of victimization of women migrants and minors overseas, a special law - House Bill No. 7199 - defines and sets penalties for the various aspects of the crime of “trafficking of persons” was proposed.

The most memorable success and result of the People's Power Revolution and the Filipino anti foreigner movement was the most impressive- Dumping the Military Base Agreement of 1947 and effectively kicking the US out of the Philippines.

November 24, 1992 was the ultimate repudiation of all things foreign and a major victory for Filipino pride- the lowering of American Flag in Subic for the last time.

Zulu  

[thekfc]

The code in question (The Family Code of the Philippines, or Executive Order No. 209) that covers the said topic was not written/rewritten in 1988.
It was enacted into law by President Corazon C. Aquino on July 6, 1987 - about 5 months after the ratification of the 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines. 

The Family code was intended to supplant Book I of the Civil Code of the Philippines concerning persons and family relations. The work on the provisions of the Family Code began as early as 1979, and had been drafted by two (2) successive committees,the first committee was headed by Supreme Court Justice Flerida Ruth Romero, and the second was chaired by Supreme Court Justice J.B.L. Reyes. The need was seen to amend the Civil Code through the Family Code in order to, among others, change certain provisions implanted from foreign sources which had proved unsuitable to Filipino culture; and to attune to contemporary developments and trends.

The Family Code covers fields of significant public interest, especially the law on marriage. It contains, among others, the definition and requisites for marriage, as well as the grounds for its annulment. It also contains the law on conjugal property relations, the rules on establishing filiation, and the governing provisions on support, parental authority, and adoption.

The Family Code of the Philippines have since been amended by Executive Order No. 227 (July 17, 1987 - remarriage, nullity of marriage & psychologically incapacitated to marry).

[piglett]

I would be careful here kfc. Having the latest technology over there is not like it is here. I don’t think most Filipinos see the latest full-featured phones as any kind of necessity, but more as a pure luxury item. You may be turning her younger family members into materialistic beings, or may cause them to be perceived as such by friends. If it can send and receive texts, then it satisfies the basic requirement. MANY Filipinos can’t afford to own and use even the older analog phones.Also, keep in mind that whenever she whips that thing out in public, she is going to be a potential victim for the snatchers, who are always watching for an opportunity. She could get seriously hurt, especially if she tries to fight them off.The other problem is yours alone and I think perhaps that you have already accepted that you are going to be seen as The Central Bank of the Philippines to the family and their acquaintances. Whenever there is a need for financial assistance, they just may see you as the only source of help and your wife may end up bearing the brunt of a lot of requests. Also understand that it is much more difficult for the typical Filipino to say no to requests for help than it is for us Westerners.Sometimes it is difficult to balance your generosity and how you are perceived because of it. I think you should consult with your wife for guidance here.
Ray

Listen to uncle Ray on this one boys & girls

this is one reason why i have tried to present myself in the eyes of my in-laws as a tightwad  

pig

[Ray]

The revised Family Code of the Philippines, which took effect on August 4, 1988, prohibits marriage for individuals below the age of 18."

Filipinos never again wanted a foreigner to marry a 14 year old pinay, even with the parents permission, and made it illegal to marry anyone under 18 in the Philippines in 1988.

Zulu, you are pulling this crap straight out of your arse.

First, you try to proclaim that the parental consent and advice provisions were put in the law because of Filipino parents wanting to stop foreigners from marrying their daughters. Then when I inform you that those provisions were already in the law long before you were even born, you attempt to convince us that the minimum marriage age was raised to 18 solely because of foreigners marrying teenage Filipinas??

So Zulu, tell us why the voting age in the Philippines was raised from 15 to 18 at the very same time that the marriage age was raised? Now try to tell us that the voting age was raised because of a backlash of Filipinos against foreign old men coming into the country and exploiting their teenagers by convincing them to vote for Marcos. ROTFLMFAO!

Give it up Zulu. You are just blabbing pure nonsense here and you know it.

Jh's theory makes much more sense than yours!

Ray

[thekfc]

this is one reason why i have tried to present myself in the eyes of my in-laws as a tightwad  

Ummmm, we though that you wasn't pretending. 

[Bill_McC]

The petty bickering here by the "old hands" over nonsensical BS is almost enough to make me leave and quit reading this site.

Grow up, all of you, or yet another GOOD thread will end up in the flame room.

Bill

[z_k_g]

The petty bickering here by the "old hands" over nonsensical BS is almost enough to make me leave and quit reading this site.

Grow up, all of you, or yet another GOOD thread will end up in the flame room.

Bill

Bill,

Just a friendly debate, but way of topic!!   

Zulu

[thekfc]

[Ray]

The petty bickering here by the "old hands" over nonsensical BS is almost enough to make me leave and quit reading this site.

Grow up, all of you, or yet another GOOD thread will end up in the flame room.

Bill

HUH?

Bye!   

[z_k_g]

Ray,

The age of 18 was established as the legal minimum age in 1987 as pointed out by Kfc and...

The work on the provisions of the Family Code began as early as 1979,

But was not passed until after the ouster of Marcos because there was not political clout in the congress to do so.

Two simple questions for you,

Why were all of these changes voted into law after Marcos left office in 1986 and not during his reign or in the 40 years prior to the law taking effect?

And why were the Family Code revisions not enacted into law by the Philippine congress until after 1986?

I've already given the answers based on historical evidence, can you provide another explanation?

I rest my case.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Ray,

The age of 18 was established as the legal minimum age in 1987 as pointed out by Kfc and...

But was not passed until after the ouster of Marcos because there was not political clout in the congress to do so.

Two simple questions for you,

Why were all of these changes voted into law after Marcos left office in 1986 and not during his reign or in the 40 years prior to the law taking effect?

And why were the Family Code revisions not enacted into law by the Philippine congress until after 1986?

I've already given the answers based on historical evidence, can you provide another explanation?

I rest my case.

Zulu

There was a new Constitution in 1987. It was NOT just the Family Code that came into law in 1987. 

   
And why were the Family Code revisions not enacted into law by the Philippine congress until after 1986?

The family Code revisions was not enacted into law until after 1986 - there was no family code then - before that there was The Civil Code Of The Philippines. The Family Code was new & was intended to supplant Book I of the Civil Code concerning persons and family relations.

I though you said that you know your history.

[Ray]

Zulu, don't try to blow smoke up my ass with your phony history lesson because I know better. I was there.

Now why can't you answer my question... "tell us why the voting age in the Philippines was raised from 15 to 18 at the very same time that the marriage age was raised?". And please explain how that fits with your theory that Filipinos were outraged over old fart foreigners stealing their teenaged daughters. LOL!

Hey Zulu buddy, does somebody out there really think there have been any flames in this thread? The only flames I have seen are from the guy who is doing the complaining about flames...go figure(?)   

Ray

[robert angel]

Can we move this thread to the laser tag room?

[z_k_g]

There was a new Constitution in 1987. It was NOT just the Family Code that came into law in 1987. 

The family Code revisions was not enacted into law until after 1986 - there was no family code then - before that there was The Civil Code Of The Philippines. The Family Code was new & was intended to supplant Book I of the Civil Code concerning persons and family relations.

I though you said that you know your history.

Kfc,

Thanks for the corrections. 

And, what I said was I was a student of history, reread my post.



Ray,

To answer your question,

"tell us why the voting age in the Philippines was raised from 15 to 18 at the very same time that the marriage age was raised?"

The 18 voting age was established to bring the Philippines in line with other nations, municipal elections are 16.

And please explain how that fits with your theory that Filipinos were outraged over old fart foreigners stealing their teenaged daughters. LOL!

Voting age and changes in the Family Code are not related.

I didn't say that every change had anything to do with the backlash against foreigners.  But the Family Code supplements to the Book I of the Civil code and other new laws (mentioned in my earlier posts) implemented were directly related.

Why was there a new Family Code to supplant Book I of the Civil code concerning persons and family relations during the same period?  Why was marriage age specifically targeted to be illegal for anyone under 18?  (This is a notable change from most other Asian countries where men can legally marry at 18 and women 16 or so.)  So why now?

This significant change could have been made anytime in the history of the Philippines, so why suddenly changed in 1987 and 1988, immediately after the dictator was kicked out in 1986.

I already gave the answers in my posts, It was because of the Peoples Power revolution and the public backlash against foreigners, just as I have indicated.

Once again, I will restate my position.  the reason these new laws were enacted had nothing to do with Jhengs assertion that Filipino...

.... society is telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make that decision on their own.

The new laws were enacted a part of a large public outcry that was anti-foreign (American) and to end what most average Filipinos saw as widespread abuse of its citizens and its sovereignty by outsiders (US) and to end what many saw as exploitation of young filipino women involved in the "Mail Order Bride" industry.

Also, the new 1987 constitution was not the first constitution, it was actually the 7th.

Hey Zulu buddy, does somebody out there really think there have been any flames in this thread? The only flames I have seen are from the guy who is doing the complaining about flames...go figure(?)   

Kuya Ray, if he thinks that this exchange qualifies as flames, he's just another newbie that hadn't read enough of the archives!!  :-)

Your Humble Student,

Zulu

[thekfc]

Folks, this thread have already gone the other way, if you are looking for anything related to the topic header, then look at the first 2 pages.

Why was there a new Family Code to supplant Book I of the Civil code concerning persons and family relations during the same period?  Why was marriage age specifically targeted to be illegal for anyone under 18?  (This is a notable change from most other Asian countries where men can legally marry at 18 and women 16 or so.)  So why now?

One can argue it is to get "in line" with the rest of ASEAN where in most of these countries the marrying age is 18 & not 16 as you quoted above. Now that would make more sense and more believable that what you are saying.

I already gave the answers in my posts, It was because of the Peoples Power revolution and the public backlash against foreigners, just as I have indicated.

The new laws were enacted a part of a large public outcry that was anti-foreign (American) and to end what most average Filipinos saw as widespread abuse of its citizens and its sovereignty by outsiders (US) and to end what many saw as exploitation of young filipino women involved in the "Mail Order Bride" industry.

Internet searches, law resources & archives shows nothing - Do you have any articles to back up what you are saying?

Also, the new 1987 constitution was not the first constitution, it was actually the 7th.

No one said that it was the first constitution - I am talking about the timing of it.

I didn't say that every change had anything to do with the backlash against foreigners.  But the Family Code supplements to the Book I of the Civil code and other new laws (mentioned in my earlier posts) implemented were directly related.

Why was there a new Family Code to supplant Book I of the Civil code concerning persons and family relations during the same period? 

Actually I am the one who brought up that "The Family Code of 1987 was intended to supplant Book I of the Civil Code concerning persons and family relations - before you kept mentioning Family Code revisions 

[z_k_g]

Folks, this thread have already gone the other way, if you are looking for anything related to the topic header, then look at the first 2 pages.
 One can argue it is to get "in line" with the rest of ASEAN where in most of these countries the marrying age is 18 & not 16 as you quoted above. Now that would make more sense and more believable that what you are saying.
 Internet searches, law resources & archives shows nothing - Do you have any articles to back up what you are saying?
 No one said that it was the first constitution - I am talking about the timing of it.
 Actually I am the one who brought up that "The Family Code of 1987 was intended to supplant Book I of the Civil Code concerning persons and family relations - before you kept mentioning Family Code revisions 

Kfc,

I got one answer for you to back up my premise.

Subic Bay.

Zulu

[thekfc]

Kfc,

I got one answer for you to back up my premise.

Subic Bay.

Zulu

What about Subic Bay? That is only 2 words.

Can you kindly educate the people on Subic Bay please.
DO NOT just tell them to go look it up - give them actual events to back up your previous statements.

[Ray]

The new laws were enacted a part of a large public outcry that was anti-foreign (American) and to end what most average Filipinos saw as widespread abuse of its citizens and its sovereignty by outsiders (US) and to end what many saw as exploitation of young filipino women involved in the "Mail Order Bride" industry.

Hey Zulu,

This is all pure bull shyt.

Let me clear something up right now.

All this phony hype about anti-American sentiment in the Philippines is nothing more than communist propaganda, and that’s not just a cliche.

When you see those photos/videos on your TV with all the Filipinos out in the streets with their Yankee-Go-Home signs, you need to understand what you are REALLY seeing.

When the commies want to get some publicity, they send out a mass text message to a list of around 10,000 or so sympathizers in Manila for a noon-time rally. The workers get out of work for lunch, pick up their anti-American sign from the commie organizers, and pose in the streets for a quick photo op for the media. Then they get their free lunch and go back to work.

I have been there and I have seen it first hand.

Fact: There is no significant anti-American sentiment in the Philippines and there never has been. It’s all commie propaganda and you have been duped by the commies. But don’t feel alone because a lot of other folks have been suckered by them also.

Now you need to take a different angle besides this fake anti-American BS because it is just that…BS!

 Ray

[Ray]

What about Subic Bay? That is only 2 words.

Can you kindly educate the people on Subic Bay please.
DO NOT just tell them to go look it up - give them actual events to back up your previous statements.

kfc,

Before Zulu attempts to blow smoke up our arses again on Subic Bay, let me warn him that I have been to Subic Bay 30-40 times and I have been stationed there and lived there.

If he tries to display his ignorance again by echoing communist propaganda and untruths about Subic and phony anti-American sentiment among common Filipinos, I will break it off in his arse.   

Ray

[z_k_g]

kfc,

Before Zulu attempts to blow smoke up our arses again on Subic Bay, let me warn him that I have been to Subic Bay 30-40 times and I have been stationed there and lived there.

If he tries to display his ignorance again by echoing communist propaganda and untruths about Subic and phony anti-American sentiment among common Filipinos, I will break it off in his arse.   

Ray

Ray,

Communists?

Zulu

[z_k_g]

What about Subic Bay? That is only 2 words.

Can you kindly educate the people on Subic Bay please.
DO NOT just tell them to go look it up - give them actual events to back up your previous statements.

Kfc,

Read my previous posts to understand the significance of those words.  Let me help you, "Subic Bay" was the culmination of the ouster of the murderer Marcos and his foreign allies (US).

I don't have to argue history, it is what it is. 

I rest my case.

Zulu

[piglett]

gift giving haaaaaa
i'm starting to think that many in the philippines are like a Georga tick
they want to suck all they can out of you
i wonder how many of you have found out that you too have Georga ticks for relatives


P

[z_k_g]

gift giving haaaaaa
i'm starting to think that many in the philippines are like a Georga tick
they want to suck all they can out of you
i wonder how many of you have found out that you too have Georga ticks for relatives


P

Porkums,

I got a few of those!

Have you been hit up lately by any of your wife's relatives?

Zulu