Gift giving in The Philippines

[thekfc]

Ray, Kfc,

If you are over 21 you inform your parents, that's the only legal requirements as far as the parents are concerned, and you do not need their approval to marry.

Zulu

Sorry Zulu, but you are wrong there.

What I posted is listed by BOTH The Philippines Government (The Family Code of the Philippine)  AND the U. S. Department of State.
http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_757.html

[thekfc]

OK, since you offered, then she didn’t do anything wrong.

I would be careful here kfc. Having the latest technology over there is not like it is here. I don’t think most Filipinos see the latest full-featured phones as any kind of necessity, but more as a pure luxury item. You may be turning her younger family members into materialistic beings, or may cause them to be perceived as such by friends. If it can send and receive texts, then it satisfies the basic requirement. MANY Filipinos can’t afford to own and use even the older analog phones.

It is not about having the latest technology but having something better. In my views, if you keep giving someone the same old thing over & over again - how will they advance?

Also, keep in mind that whenever she whips that thing out in public, she is going to be a potential victim for the snatchers, who are always watching for an opportunity. She could get seriously hurt, especially if she tries to fight them off.

Point taken on that & that is true.

The other problem is yours alone and I think perhaps that you have already accepted that you are going to be seen as The Central Bank of the Philippines to the family and their acquaintances.

 

As for gift giving this is what I told my wife and some members of her family:
~I will only send gifts to certain family members.
~Birthday gifts would be something that the celebrant will enjoy as well as the other members. Something like a cake,  pizza or some other food item.
~X-Mas gifts would be whatever I feel is appropriate & I (we) am able to send.
~I do not send gifts to men – it is against my religion.

[z_k_g]

Sorry Zulu, but you are wrong there.

What I posted is listed by BOTH The Philippines Government (The Family Code of the Philippine)  AND the U. S. Department of State.
http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_757.html

Kfc,

This is a snippet of the relevant Code:

THE MARRIAGE APPLICATION PROCESS:

Once the person has the affidavit, he/she can file the application for a marriage license at the office of the local Philippine Civil Registrar of the town or city where one of the parties is a resident. The U.S. citizen applicant will need to present the affidavit, death certificate or divorce decree as mentioned above, U.S. passport, and documentation regarding parental consent or advice if applicable. Marriage applicants who are age 18 to 21 must have parental consent in writing, those age 21 to 25 must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry). The revised Family Code of the Philippines, which took effect on August 4, 1988, prohibits marriage for individuals below the age of 18.

You DO NOT need parental APPROVAL to marry after the age of 21.

Exactly as I stated earlier, if the parents DO NOT approve, you still can still get married.

Zulu

[z_k_g]

Hey Z,

how young your sweetie? just wondering

Inday,

She is 21

Zulu

[Ray]

Ray, Kfc,

If you are over 21 you inform your parents, that's the only legal requirements as far as the parents are concerned, and you do not need their approval to marry.

Zulu

Zulu,

There is no legal requirement to “inform” your parents. You are supposed to ask for their “advice”.

If you do not obtain their favorable advice, then you wait another 3 months just like I stated earlier. It's an either/or thing.

Ray

[z_k_g]

Zulu,

There is no legal requirement to “inform” your parents. You are supposed to ask for their “advice”.

If you do not obtain their favorable advice, then you wait another 3 months just like I stated earlier. It's an either/or thing.

Ray,

Correction noted.

Zulu

[thekfc]

I think that were we looking at it differently.

You stated:

If you are over 21 you inform your parents, that's the only legal requirements as far as the parents are concerned, and you do not need their approval to marry.

Zulu

While I was looking at this requirement - written parental advice:
Those age 21 to 25 must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry).

[z_k_g]

I think that were we looking at it differently.

You stated:
While I was looking at this requirement - written parental advice:
Those age 21 to 25 must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry).

Kfc,

Yes, but written parental advice, is not synonymous with written parental approval.  The law is very clear on what parental advice means.

You do NOT NEED parental approval to marry after the age of 21.

Once you reach age 21 you can marry anyone you like whenever you like WITHOUT your parents approval.

Zulu

[Ray]

It is not about having the latest technology but having something better. In my views, if you keep giving someone the same old thing over & over again - how will they advance?

I just don’t think having a newer, better cell phone is a requirement to advance in life, especially in the Philippines, except maybe to keep up with the Joneses…

Ray

[thekfc]

Kfc,

Yes, but written parental advice, is not synonymous with written parental approval.  The law is very clear on what parental advice means.

You do NOT NEED parental approval to marry after the age of 21.

Once you reach age 21 you can marry anyone you like whenever you like WITHOUT your parents approval.

Zulu

Zulu, I thing you misread what I posted.

I never said anything about anyone above 21 needing written parental approval - I said advice.

Read again:
Under 18 - marriage is prohibited
18 to 21 - must have parental consent in writing.
21 to 25 - must have written parental advice (a written indication that the parents are aware of the couple's intent to marry).
Over 25 - neither advice nor consent is needed.

[z_k_g]

I just don’t think having a newer, better cell phone is a requirement to advance in life, especially in the Philippines, except maybe to keep up with the Joneses…

Ray,

I can't speak for Kfc, but I don't think he is just talking about a glitzy techno device as a fashion accessory.

Maybe this will put Kfc's comment into a clearer perspective:

The carriers, Sun, Globe and Smart will be making this decision for you!

Once they start migrating to newer cellular technologies like 4g (similar to the recent digital tv conversion) your old equipment 1g, 2g and 3g cell phone (like your analog tv) won't work anymore.

Digital TV means better picture and sound, more efficient use of the bandwidth, and more services that can be provisioned to free customers.

The new 3g and 4g cellular services offer more data, more services etc for cell phone users.

I'm sure the PI carriers will keep abreast with the new technologies and at some point your cell phone will NOT work anymore and you will be forced to upgrade.

Zulu

[thekfc]

I just don’t think having a newer, better cell phone is a requirement to advance in life, especially in the Philippines, except maybe to keep up with the Joneses…

Ray

I am talking about technology - not just cell phone.

Just last week I saw a guy sitting in the park near where I live listening to an 8 track player.

[Ray]

Kfc,

Yes, but written parental advice, is not synonymous with written parental approval.  The law is very clear on what parental advice means.

You do NOT NEED parental approval to marry after the age of 21.

Once you reach age 21 you can marry anyone you like whenever you like WITHOUT your parents approval.

Zulu

Actually, it is synonymous with approval, because without “favorable” advice, you cannot marry whenever you like. You will have to wait another 3 months.

Here, read the law yourself:

Art. 15. Any contracting party between the age of twenty-one and twenty-five shall be obliged to ask their parents or guardian for advice upon the intended marriage. If they do not obtain such advice, or if it be unfavorable, the marriage license shall not be issued till after three months following the completion of the publication of the application therefor. A sworn statement by the contracting parties to the effect that such advice has been sought, together with the written advice given, if any, shall be attached to the application for marriage license. Should the parents or guardian refuse to give any advice, this fact shall be stated in the sworn statement.

Also, you cannot marry anyone you like. There are restrictions such as not being able to legally marry your brother or sister, your own child, someone already legally married, etc., etc., etc….

Ray

[thekfc]

Just a matter of time.

3G have been in the Philippines since 2008. South Korea is already working on 5G.
Although it haven't taken off yet & the verdict is still out on it - who would think that we would have 3D TVs in 2010?

[z_k_g]

Actually, it is synonymous with approval, because without “favorable” advice, you cannot marry whenever you like. You will have to wait another 3 months.

Here, read the law yourself:

Also, you cannot marry anyone you like. There are restrictions such as not being able to legally marry your brother or sister, your own child, someone already legally married, etc., etc., etc….

Ray

Ray,

The terms are not synonymous in law because different people posses the legal capacity.

Parental Approval = yes/no and by definition is absolute and parents are the deciders and the final authority and possess the full legal capacity.

Parental Advice = is conditional and limited in scope, the couple is the decider and final authority and possess the full legal capacity.  The parents possess no legal authority whatsoever.  (However, I'm sure for practical, historical and cultural reason, the lawmakers have decided if the parents disapprove to impose a 3 month moratorium before the marriage can proceed.)

Zulu

[Ray]

Zulu, I didn't know you were a lawyer.

You can dance around this issue all you want, but I'm not wasting one more minute on it. You read the law so if you don't agree with it, you can always make a sign and protest in front of the nearest Philippine consulate.

 

[Ray]

I am talking about technology - not just cell phone.

Just last week I saw a guy sitting in the park near where I live listening to an 8 track player.

kf, I know exactly what you are talking about, but don’t you still need the phone to use the technology?? 

My whole point is, once again, that the latest technology devices are not a necessity, but a luxury in the Philippines. They are for “rich kids” so to speak.

It is my opinion that lavishing your relatives with the latest technology devices may be sending the wrong message and this behavior has the definite potential to backfire on you later. But as long as you know what you are getting into, I have absolutely no problem with how you spend your money.

Question: How much more is it going to cost your niece to fund the implementation of the full features of her new phone on an ongoing basis and who will pay for it?

And hey, I still have an 8-Track player/recorder, real-to-real, and cassette deck, with a whole bunch of tapes. I just haven’t used some of that stuff in many years.

Ray

[z_k_g]

Ray,

I think the law speaks for itself, I agree with it 100%!

Why do you think that I don't agree with the law?  In fact I wish we had a similar statutes in the United States. 

I don't agree with your interpretation of the law.

Zulu

[Jhengsman]

If society can demand a three month hold on elopements then that society is telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make that decision on their own. The marriage advice requirement is used as an example why a Filipina "becomes a woman" at 18 while a Mexican does at 15 in the eyes of her society. The debut itself is not universal for Filipinos anymore then it is for Mexicans or Americans it is a show to the rest of the community that papa is powerful enough to have excess the income to spend on the party

[z_k_g]

If society can demand a three month hold on elopements then that society is telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make that decision on their own.

Jhengs,

I disagree.

Most laws have practical application and are based on some type of common law or have some cultural or ethical basis.

Some laws are completely reactionary and are in response to some type social trauma where lawmakers are compelled by popular demand to do "something" (think about Arizona and the recent issues about our neighbors to the south)

In my opinion, the age limit in the Philippines is based on the latter and lawmakers imposed this specific marriage limit due to the many mail order brides that were 18 or younger.   This was in response to the public outcry that young women were being hijacked into unfair marriages and parents were left with no legal recourse to remedy the situation.

So the lawmakers imposed the new statues curtailing these types of unions.

These laws had very little to do with Philipino "society telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make a decision on their own" as you stated.

The laws were imposed to empower parents and to stop foreigners (primarily older men) from wedding pubescent (under 18) "mail order brides."

Zulu

[Ray]

Why do you think that I don't agree with the law?  In fact I wish we had a similar statutes in the United States. 

I don't agree with your interpretation of the law.

 

Zulu,

The point is that you were ignorant of the law as evidenced by your erroneous statements in this thread. I was only correcting your false interpretations of something that you didn’t understand.

Now that you have actually read and agree with the law, may I congratulate you on your new-found awareness.  LOL!

 

Ray

[z_k_g]

Ray,

I appreciate that, thanks for correcting my errors.

When visiting a foreign country I've learned to obey the law to the letter and err on the side of caution!

Zulu

[thekfc]

Question: How much more is it going to cost your niece to fund the implementation of the full features of her new phone on an ongoing basis and who will pay for it?

Other than putting load on it  - $0. Free wifi (including internet - which she is currently getting), and any apps needed, she can get for free or I will give give it to her.

And hey, I still have an 8-Track player/recorder, real-to-real, and cassette deck, with a whole bunch of tapes. I just haven’t used some of that stuff in many years.

Ray, people will think that you are a dinosaur 

I have some laser disc (& a player) mainly because the movies on them is not available (out of print) or if available are cut. I had (have) a bunch of VHS tapes and once the movies became available on disc & I verified that the disc is to my liking (uncut, correct sound tracks, etc,.) - I got "rid" of the tapes. I also "upgraded" a lot of my movies to HD/Blu-ray. I do have some cassette tapes (no deck - waste of my cabinet space but one my alarm clock have a cassette player attached), some of these tapes have not made it to other media & I am holding on to them.

[Jhengsman]

Jhengs,

I disagree.

Most laws have practical application and are based on some type of common law or have some cultural or ethical basis.

Some laws are completely reactionary and are in response to some type social trauma where lawmakers are compelled by popular demand to do "something" (think about Arizona and the recent issues about our neighbors to the south)

In my opinion, the age limit in the Philippines is based on the latter and lawmakers imposed this specific marriage limit due to the many mail order brides that were 18 or younger.   This was in response to the public outcry that young women were being hijacked into unfair marriages and parents were left with no legal recourse to remedy the situation.

So the lawmakers imposed the new statues curtailing these types of unions.

These laws had very little to do with Philipino "society telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make a decision on their own" as you stated.

The laws were imposed to empower parents and to stop foreigners (primarily older men) from wedding pubescent (under 18) "mail order brides."

Zulu

You think that so many men bought a catalog from Cherry Blossoms and the like in the 70s up to 1985 that Marcos and the Philippine Cngress changed the law for 90 million to "protect" a few thousand from Joe?

[Ray]

Some laws are completely reactionary and are in response to some type social trauma where lawmakers are compelled by popular demand to do "something" (think about Arizona and the recent issues about our neighbors to the south)

In my opinion, the age limit in the Philippines is based on the latter and lawmakers imposed this specific marriage limit due to the many mail order brides that were 18 or younger.   This was in response to the public outcry that young women were being hijacked into unfair marriages and parents were left with no legal recourse to remedy the situation.

So the lawmakers imposed the new statues curtailing these types of unions.

These laws had very little to do with Philipino "society telling you they don't think a 24 year old is mature enough to make a decision on their own" as you stated.

The laws were imposed to empower parents and to stop foreigners (primarily older men) from wedding pubescent (under 18) "mail order brides."

Zulu

Zulu, Zulu, Zulu!

Some of this stuff you come up with is really funny. I love your imagination… LOL!

Jh made a good point, but you’re even farther off the mark than he alluded to.

These laws regarding parental consent and advice had NOTHING to do any public outcry over foreigners marrying young mail order brides. In fact these provisions were in affect over 60 years ago before there ever was a “mail order bride” phenomenon. This is a cultural thing based on Filipino societal and family norms like jh mentioned.

The Civil Code of 1949 is almost identical in the legal language requiring consent/advice of parents before a marriage license could be issued. The main difference was the specific ages of the parties back then.

Before the mid-80’s, the minimum marriage age was 16 for males and 14 for females.

Parental consent was required for males under 20 and females under 18.

Affirmative parental advice was required for males 20-25 and for females 18-23. Lack of positive advice meant an additional wait of 3 months back then also.

We even have a long-time member here who married his wife in the Philippines back in the 80’s when she was only 16 (that’s 2 years over the minimum age).

BTW, there is an old Filipino saying that claims that a girl is ready for marriage when she has mastered the task of cooking perfect rice.   

Ray