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Latin International Dating Forums => Latin -> General discussion => Topic started by: mudd on October 09, 2011, 07:53:26 PM

Title: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on October 09, 2011, 07:53:26 PM
ok ok, im sure SOMEBODY is going to say " all you do is post negative krap" but it was sent by a friend who lives there, so take it for what its worth



[/size]See Note from Marcos Below…. - Jim[/color][/size][/i][/b][/font][/size][/color]
[/size] [/font][/b][/font][/size]
[/font]this is important and pass it on to any friends in medellin .
 
i just received a notice from the principal from my school that the latest scheme in medellin is this:
 
a child starts crying or comes up to you crying and points to come here or there.  what is waiting for you is being robber, shot or kidnapped.
 
this is no joke the colombians are warning themselves about this ploy because evidently it is happening in medellin .
 
ok, this is no junk mail, it is from marcos de medellin , and i got the letter in spanish but because some people are a little lets say not proficient in spanish i figured it would be best to translate it for you.
 
SO CUIDADO - be careful.  your spanish lesson for today.
 
the wedding was great, photos etc to follow and i return tuesday night
[/font].
 
good night from balmy rochester - 80 plus degrees today
 
loquito
[/font][/size]
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Zon on October 09, 2011, 08:11:27 PM
I have a close friend, 25 year old COLOMBIANO.  He called me today and was drugged and robbed in Parque Llares on Friday night. 

Actually, I like a little uncertainty, but Medellin is not a joke.

Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on October 09, 2011, 11:14:49 PM

ok, here is the post, cleaned up below.  wonder what will be next in medellin  :o



See Note from Marcos Below…. - Jim


this is important and pass it on to any friends in medellin .
 
 
 
i just received a notice from the principal from my school that the latest scheme in medellin is this:
 
a child starts crying or comes up to you crying and points to come here or there.  what is waiting for you is being robber, shot or kidnapped.
 
this is no joke the colombians are warning themselves about this ploy because evidently it is happening in medellin .
 
ok, this is no junk mail, it is from marcos de medellin , and i got the letter in spanish but because some people are a little lets say not proficient in spanish i figured it would be best to translate it for you.
 
SO CUIDADO - be careful.  your spanish lesson for today.
 
the wedding was great, photos etc to follow and i return tuesday night.
 
good night from balmy rochester - 80 plus degrees today
 
loquito
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Samuel on October 10, 2011, 08:37:12 AM
I have a close friend, 25 year old COLOMBIANO.  He called me today and was drugged and robbed in Parque Llares on Friday night. 

Actually, I like a little uncertainty, but Medellin is not a joke.


The drug administered was most likely scopolamine.  Nasty and dangerous stuff.


An interesting documentary an American made on it.


http://www.vice.com/vice-news/colombian-devil-s-breath-1-of-2
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on October 10, 2011, 10:27:10 AM
very good video on the drug. amazing how easy it is for somebody to die on it if somebody gives a victim too much
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 04, 2011, 01:24:19 AM
I think the running joke is who HAS NOT been robbed or druged in medellin???
 
Why is anyone suprised?
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JWR on November 04, 2011, 09:06:59 AM
When you get off the plane in Colombia, there is always some luck that determines what happens to you.  Good luck or bad.  Guys always say be careful.  Well you can be careful, and with a little bad luck, meeting the wrong friend of a friend, you're completely screwed.  As your Spanish improves, you start to realize all the stupid dangerous things you did, as you wandered around the country with little understanding of anything.  After about a year and a half in Colombia, the luck has always been on my side.
 
Often things are not as they appear in all things concerning this country.
 
Guys never want to talk about how dangerous it actually is down there.  It's just too close to home.  If you really start thinking about it, you would never get on the plane.
 
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: dennislevy on November 04, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
Any place that is very far out of a man s zone of comfort is dangerous.
 
After about two years in Colombia, I didnt think about it as a dangerous place, I developed a set of habits that at least in my mind.....minimzed any danger and then I traveled through most of the country.
 
I lived in Medellin for 8 months, never had any problems there...but I never went to El Centro with more then 20,000 pesos (10 or 11 bucks) in my pocket, thats for sure.
 
MANY gringos do things that get themselves in trouble. How they present themseves, what they wear,  how they behave in public places, the types of women they seek, the hours they keep, their lack of Spanish, all of that contributes to danger.
 
But I would not go to some places in the world......because I consider them to be so far out of my zone of comfort.  That includes most of the Middle East, most of Africa, parts of Asia, SE Asia.......
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: vikingo on November 04, 2011, 01:05:05 PM
I've lived in Barranquilla for almost two years, never had a problem nor a confrontation, had some guys giving me dirty looks though and I figured they were FARC or former FARC, who hate Americans with a passion, even though I'm not an American. We watched an armed robbery once, sitting in a bus which had stopped on a traffic light. Two gunmen on motorcycle appeared on the scene, one opened the door of a stopped taxi and emerged with a ladie's handbag. they took off on the moto, the passenger holding a large revolver across his chest, ready to shoot anyone who would try to stop him. People in the bus were saying the couple in the taxi most likely made a withdrawal in the bank. I truly believe most of these criminals are former rebels or paracos (paramilitary), because they act so calm and confident like they were government agents.
When I go to my bank, the security guard always holds a speach at folks waiting in line, advising anyone with a large withdrawal to call for a free police escort and he is giving out the number to call.
I also lived in Cali for a year and my ex caleña said she was held up four times sitting in her car waiting for the light to turn green. She would never take anything of value out in the street and only wore silver jewelry when leaving the house.
I am convinced the reason I never had any problems is simply I don't go out at night, never, and the girl I'm with keeps me out of trouble. Hitting the bars at night, maybe being somewhat intoxicated already can get you into a lot of trouble. So does making enemies or messing with someones girlfriend. A cicario or asassin will eliminate anyone for 3 million pesos. Something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 04, 2011, 04:43:41 PM
medellin for the most part, is a nice city, but dont take anything for granted there or your likely to get robbed, drugged or even worse, killed. Unfortunately, its one of those cities where " being in the wrong place at the wrong time" can be deadly. a lot of what goes on there rarely ever gets reported or makes it to the news. A fraction of the news actually makes it to places like here on Planet-love. Best to find a local you can trust, which isn't easy to find either lol, before going out to certain areas of the city. And for please sake, dont look like a tourist walking around with your heads in the clouds, your just asking to get robbed.

Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JWR on November 04, 2011, 06:30:05 PM
Once you have a steady girlfriend or wife, your safety goes up dramatically in my opinion.  You are not out on the town late at night on dates with new girls, you are mostly flying under the wire.
 
Since there were so many murders that happened to my ex-wife's family over the years, she was super paranoid about my safety when we lived there together.  She didn't even tell her own family where our apartment was.  She used to say that word travels fast, and it might travel to the wrong person.
 
I am not an advocate of a risk free colorless life.  I'm off to Mindanao in a couple of weeks.  From Colombia to Mindanao.  Genius thinking eh?
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 04, 2011, 06:57:46 PM
Quote
Since there were so many murders that happened to my ex-wife's family over the years, she was super paranoid about my safety when we lived there together.  She didn't even tell her own family where our apartment was.  She used to say that word travels fast, and it might travel to the wrong person.


reminds me of my 1st girlfriend in medellin. she had two small scars on her breasts. I didnt ask her for a while what happen, but she finally told me. She was in a car with her novio at a stop light when a guy pulled up and started shooting.  the guy shot her novio in the head and killed him. One of the bullets just missed her and grazed both her breasts, leaving the scars. When driving in medellin, she would start to have a panic attack if we stopped at a light for more than 10 seconds. Was really sad to see her in such a mess because she was a really nice person, but will always have mental problems, and who wouldnt experiencing something like that.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 04, 2011, 06:59:43 PM
http://www.qhubo.com/ (http://www.qhubo.com/)
 
you want the nasty and the real medellin here you go
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JWR on November 04, 2011, 07:51:33 PM
My ex wife had a bullet hole scar in her leg from when the farc tried to kill the Arch Bishop who was her uncle while they were together.  When she was with him, their car had been attacked several times with bullets flying around inside the car.  While we were married, her brother was kidnapped and later killed, her very close cousin was only recently shot several times, that paralyzed him from the neck down while driving, and her Uncle the catholic arch bishop was finally murdered.  Her Grand Father was murdered, and their large horse ranch was taken by the farc. Her other cousin's head was delivered in a box to the front door after a kidnapping.
 
I was married to paisa who suffered from PTSD every day of her life.  When therapy was suggested,  I was told that only crazy people go to therapy.  All this hardship, and loss has made her into an extremely driven, efficient, educated, intelligent, cold, stubborn, hard women. 
 
All of these horrific stories came out very slowly over a period of 10 years from her, her friends, and family.  I had no idea about any of it when we were married.
 
 

reminds me of my 1st girlfriend in medellin. she had two small scars on her breasts. I didnt ask her for a while what happen, but she finally told me. She was in a car with her novio at a stop light when a guy pulled up and started shooting.  the guy shot her novio in the head and killed him. One of the bullets just missed her and grazed both her breasts, leaving the scars. When driving in medellin, she would start to have a panic attack if we stopped at a light for more than 10 seconds. Was really sad to see her in such a mess because she was a really nice person, but will always have mental problems, and who wouldnt experiencing something like that.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Researcher on November 04, 2011, 08:55:29 PM
Once you have a steady girlfriend or wife, your safety goes up dramatically in my opinion.  You are not out on the town late at night on dates with new girls, you are mostly flying under the wire.
 

      I agree JWR.I had a novia in Cali many years ago and we would always end up at one of her relatives house by night fall.If I wanted to go back to where I was staying she knew the best way there.

     In Bogota I've had my wife grab my jacket sleeve and pull me around a corner out of sight.Most of the time it was from the policia!

     I don't think many gringos realize that in many places of the world if you get done in CSI isn't going to show up to investigate.I wonder how many crimes go unsolved in places like Colombia?

     I've walked the streets of Bogota, Manila and Mexico City alone.Mexico City felt the most dangerous to me.Now that I'm older I exercise alot more caution than I used to.

        Researcher
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Micky on November 04, 2011, 09:16:58 PM
Dangerous for FARC leaders - just in -  Cano (?)  the lastest in,  what is becoming,  a long list of dead FARC jefes.  RIP dick.

 
Micky
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Deseo on November 04, 2011, 09:45:42 PM
For the guys with experience in Medellin AND Cali, which one do you think is more dangerous (now)?
 
Too close to call or Medellin by a long shot?
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 04, 2011, 10:29:56 PM
Quote
For the guys with experience in Medellin AND Cali, which one do you think is more dangerous (now)?[/size] Too close to call or Medellin by a long shot?



haven't been to cali in a few years so i cant really compare the two right now, but i know medellin has  a whole lot of problems under the surface, most of which are never reported or make it to the internet. most guys thinking about going down wouldnt even know what really goes on there unless they know locals, are fluent in Spanish or read the paper above posted by maritime04
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 04, 2011, 10:51:19 PM
most of those guys are in denial! or too stupid to know what goes on outside poblado, or too scared to leave poblado. or just go with the crime and danger as a part of life required inorder to live the lifestyle they want IE get WOMEN!!
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: dennislevy on November 05, 2011, 10:10:50 AM
I remember that in in the summer of 2010,  while my novia annd i searched for an apartment for me, I was living in a hotel very near Obelisko and her house. It was 11 in the morning and a solid estrato 5 neighborhood.

I was walking three blocks from the hotel and a motorcyclist (with a masked helmet)  stopped at the curb immediately next to me.

And I thought to myself.....#$%&&/!!!!!!!!!!  four days living in Medellin and I m toast!!!!!!

The motorcyclist took off his helmet and it was ny novia s brother......he just wanted to say hi! 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 05, 2011, 06:19:47 PM
i have had some close calls with pick pockets in el centrol. I avoided a robbery at a hotel i was staying at by NOT BEING THERE at the time. and i think i was being watched by someone while taking money out of ATM, but they bank had security guards.
 
I have been lucy
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: vikingo on November 05, 2011, 06:34:12 PM
Deseo, I would say Cali is more dangerous than Medellín, Bogotá is first in place and then there is  Buenaventura. In my humble opinion, Bucaramanga is the least dangerous city and Barranquilla is also less dangerous with only 2 to 3 murders daily, sometimes 4. Pretty sure about Barranquilla because I live here and read the paper (Al Día).
When I lived just outside Cali about 4 years ago one of the neighbors owned a fairly new Ford tractor he used for working  in the sugar cane fields. one day he got shot right of the tractor by two paid asassins (sicarios) on a motorbike. The neighbors told me he was a witness to a drug crime and he was due in Court to testify. A good percentage of serious crime in this country is somehow drug related and it probably isn't a good idea to get involved as a witness. The Three Wise (japanese) Monkeys make a lot of sense when living here.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Deseo on November 06, 2011, 10:01:41 AM
Thanks MUDD and Vikingo for the reply. 
 
I read the crime stats on Cali and Medellin, actually homicide rates.
 
I don't know how good the official stats are but I figure a murder is a murder.
 
Cali's homicide rate in 2010 was 71 per 100,000 residents.  Medellin's homicide rate was 110 per 100,000 in 2009 (the most recent year I could find).
 
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1967232,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1967232,00.html)
 
 
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: robert angel on November 06, 2011, 06:27:29 PM
Thanks MUDD and Vikingo for the reply. 
 
I read the crime stats on Cali and Medellin, actually homicide rates.
 
I don't know how good the official stats are but I figure a murder is a murder.
 
Cali's homicide rate in 2010 was 71 per 100,000 residents.  Medellin's homicide rate was 110 per 100,000 in 2009 (the most recent year I could find).
 
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1967232,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1967232,00.html)

There are places in the USA where you can get murdered quite easily too.

New Orleans, Louisiana had a higher homicide rate per 100,000 people than Cali until recently, but 2011 certainly started off badly. . From Jan 1st, 2011 to March 25th 2011 alone, they had 60 homicides, so they'll probably break their own record of 81 in 2007 and maybe even exceed not just Cali's but also Medellin's.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 06, 2011, 08:21:41 PM
Quote
Thanks MUDD and Vikingo for the reply.   I read the crime stats on Cali and Medellin, actually homicide rates. I don't know how good the official stats are but I figure a murder is a murder. Cali's homicide rate in 2010 was 71 per 100,000 residents.  Medellin's homicide rate was 110 per 100,000 in 2009 (the most recent year I could find).


i would say the medellin's rate went up a little in 2010 and so far this year, it will break the 2009 record. Didnt help when some of the troops and police were moved out of medellin when  Pres Uribe left office
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 06, 2011, 10:57:41 PM
6189 murders/killings in medellin since 2008, according to Qhubo.
 
It may not be really that high, but what do you expect from a country with a history of violence, narco trafficking, and extreme poverty. its the ugly side of colombia to be sure.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: vikingo on November 07, 2011, 07:30:58 AM
It would be interesting to see a chart depicting homicides in US cities of similar seize to major cities in Colombia to get a true picture about Colombias crime rate. It is common belief though that crime increased significantly in and around Medellín since Uribe left the presidency. What has a large effect on crime in Colombia is the presence of former members of the paramilitary (paracos), common in Antiochía (Medellín), and the presence of former members of the FARC around Cali, people who are most generally fearless and familiar with handling hand guns and who still pocess them in large numbers. While the FARC mainly consists of disgruntled peasants, many paracos with once noble intentions turned over the years into a ruthless gang of cold blooded criminals, surviving by the drug trade and kidnappings, just like the FARC. I can't imagine there are many jobs waiting for them as most have no training or schooling for civilian life of any kind nor do the former FARC have any land to gop back to and farm it, so some of them resort to crime to feed themselfes or their families. Now add to this scenario millions of displaced people, headed for the cities to escape the atrocities of either rebel roup and many of them also turned to crime out of sheer desperation to feed their families. What is needed desperately in this country is a wellfare system and government programs to help the very poor and downtrotten. Maybe when the war with the remaining 9000 FARC is over some day, moneys can be channeled into such government programs, but this country has a long way to go to solve it's problems with crime and poverty.                                                       
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: benjio on November 07, 2011, 01:33:02 PM
It would be interesting to see a chart depicting homicides in US cities of similar seize to major cities in Colombia to get a true picture about Colombias crime rate. It is common belief though that crime increased significantly in and around Medellín since Uribe left the presidency. What has a large effect on crime in Colombia is the presence of former members of the paramilitary (paracos), common in Antiochía (Medellín), and the presence of former members of the FARC around Cali, people who are most generally fearless and familiar with handling hand guns and who still pocess them in large numbers. While the FARC mainly consists of disgruntled peasants, many paracos with once noble intentions turned over the years into a ruthless gang of cold blooded criminals, surviving by the drug trade and kidnappings, just like the FARC. I can't imagine there are many jobs waiting for them as most have no training or schooling for civilian life of any kind nor do the former FARC have any land to gop back to and farm it, so some of them resort to crime to feed themselfes or their families. Now add to this scenario millions of displaced people, headed for the cities to escape the atrocities of either rebel roup and many of them also turned to crime out of sheer desperation to feed their families. What is needed desperately in this country is a wellfare system and government programs to help the very poor and downtrotten. Maybe when the war with the remaining 9000 FARC is over some day, moneys can be channeled into such government programs, but this country has a long way to go to solve it's problems with crime and poverty.                                                       

Vikingo,
 
I'd be very interested in seeing the same statistics. I've never been to Medellin but I've spent significant time in almost every other city in Colombia, and I'm sorry...I've just never felt that unsafe. I've been to a lot of areas and neighborhoods that I've been specifically instructed to stay away from in Colombia, and I've never felt anything but comfortable and welcomed. Although I don't have the numbers to prove it, it's hard for me to believe that a significant percentage of the homicides in Medellin are happening to innocent bystanders. I think a lot of it has to do with drug trafficking, personal vendettas, and people placing themselves in bad situations as previously stated.
 
The neighborhood I live in here in the U.S. on the otherhand is notorious for people being killed for absolutely nothing. The worse stories I've heard out of Colombia still don't compare to the things I've seen here. Women getting high on crack and killing their babies. Multiple Assault Rifles fired on a crowd of people at a high school football game. Entire families being murdered by home invaders, including 3 children under the age of 10. I can personally remember 3 dead bodies being found within a mile from my home within the last year, and I'm sure there were more I'm not recalling. These things don't even make the news half of the time because it's so common where I live. I lost 5 friends to murder before I graduated high school. My high school sweetheart was raped and murdered a few years after we graduated.
 
I think someone's idea of any place being "dangerous" is a relative notion. I'm not sure if anyone on the board currently residing in or has grown up in an area like my neighborhood. What's amazing is there are places in the U.S. that are so much worse than where I live. The first link below is a Wikipedia article about my neighborbood. I personally knew each of the victims in the articles that follow. I actually lost 3 VERY good friends last year between July and September. These crimes all occured within a 10 miles radius of my home. Farbeit from me to claim the U.S. is more dangerous than Colombia, but I'd rather take my chances SOTB anyday.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Clarke,_Houston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Clarke,_Houston)

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2006/may/nr050306-2.htm (http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2006/may/nr050306-2.htm)
http://www.khou.com/community/blogs/crime-watch/Crime-Blog-Tips-sought-in-murder-of-19-year-old-Missouri-City-man-102181509.html (http://www.khou.com/community/blogs/crime-watch/Crime-Blog-Tips-sought-in-murder-of-19-year-old-Missouri-City-man-102181509.html)
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8265040 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8265040)
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-houston/boyfriend-girlfriend-both-shot-dead-different-places (http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-houston/boyfriend-girlfriend-both-shot-dead-different-places)
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2008/feb/nr022108-4.htm (http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2008/feb/nr022108-4.htm)

http://houstonist.com/2006/12/07/metro_contracto.php (http://houstonist.com/2006/12/07/metro_contracto.php)

http://www.khou.com/community/blogs/crime-watch/Crime-Blog-Houston-police-seek-suspect-in-shooting-99554734.html (http://www.khou.com/community/blogs/crime-watch/Crime-Blog-Houston-police-seek-suspect-in-shooting-99554734.html)

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2007/feb/nr020907-2.htm (http://www.houstontx.gov/police/nr/2007/feb/nr020907-2.htm)
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: robert angel on November 07, 2011, 02:30:00 PM
From what I've seen from living in different cities in the USA, 'most' of the murders are committed by the same people, against the same people and usually in the same neighborhoods. They typically involve drugs and/or some perceived 'disrespect' allegedly committed by the party on the wrong end of the gun. Grudges can be longstanding, even multigenerational.


Yes there are cases where people are murdered, even in multiples in neighborhoods, schools and workplaces outside what is typically seen as 'the danger zones' and crime of all sorts can happen anywhere. But I think that the greatest majority of crime, especially violent crime, tends to happen in the same neighborhoods, by people preying on their own people--easy targets.


I have seen a lot of burglaries, vandalism and other defacement of property in very affluent, gated communties, but that's typically done by the teenage offspring of residents there, 'punks' who are looking for prescription drugs, guns and various thrills.
 

In the most rural areas of the west and in suburbs outside of the cities nationwide, you have high rates (by population percentage) of prescription drug abuse as well as methamphetamine addiction, and the demographic most likely to be addicted is white females in their late teens to early thirties. So trying to classify crime, addiction and violence by race, neighborhood or economic status is a far from perfect science.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: maritime04 on November 07, 2011, 06:17:16 PM
The point is Colombia is a dangerous country and one needs to be carefull. It does not mean you can not live there, it just means BE CAREFULL, what i find rather odd is the guys who peddle how safe the country is, and how protected you are in el poblado, and some throw comparisions of apples and oranges just to convience some "horny guy" to buy a over priced condo, GUESS WHAT hes going to buy ANYWAZ!!!!!!!!!!! i have met guys who have been REPEATDLY robbed, drugged, cars stolen, held at gun point. AND THEY ARE STILL THERE!!!!!!! why becuase getting laid is worth the risk.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 08, 2011, 07:18:01 AM
Quote
The point is Colombia is a dangerous country and one needs to be carefull. It does not mean you can not live there, it just means BE CAREFULL, what i find rather odd is the guys who peddle how safe the country is, and how protected you are in el poblado, and some throw comparisions of apples and oranges just to convience some "horny guy" to buy a over priced condo, GUESS WHAT hes going to buy ANYWAZ!!!!!!!!!!! i have met guys who have been REPEATDLY robbed, drugged, cars stolen, held at gun point. AND THEY ARE STILL THERE!!!!!!! why becuase getting laid is worth the risk.


i couldnt have said it better myself  ;)




Quote
I'd be very interested in seeing the same statistics. I've never been to Medellin but I've spent significant time in almost every other city in Colombia, and I'm sorry...I've just never felt that unsafe. I've been to a lot of areas and neighborhoods that I've been specifically instructed to stay away from in Colombia, and I've never felt anything but comfortable and welcomed. Although I don't have the numbers to prove it, it's hard for me to believe that a significant percentage of the homicides in Medellin are happening to innocent bystanders. I think a lot of it has to do with drug trafficking, personal vendettas, and people placing themselves in bad situations as previously stated.


medellin is one of those cities i have been to where just " being in the wrong place at the wrong time " get you killed. thats what scares me the most about that city.  random roberies and violence happens everywhere, but in medellin, its extreme and higher than most. Remember the bar shooting in Envigado beginning of the year, 7 people killed because they also " were in the wrong place at the wrong time".  or the parque lleras bombing some years ago, lots of innocient people killed. Sooner or later, it will happen again in parque lleras,  and i just dont want to be one of those guys sitting there at a cafe or walking by when it happens. life is just too short and i piece of tail isnt just that important to me.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Deseo on November 08, 2011, 08:40:10 AM
Based on official homicide statistics both Cali (71 murders per 100,000) and Medellin (110 per 100,000) have MUCH higher murder rates  than even the most dangerous cities in the USA.
 
Here are some 2010 homicide rates for large U.S. cities:
 
The Three Biggest U.S. Cities:
New York City (6.4 per 100,000)
Los Angeles (7.6 per 100,000)
Chicago (15.2 per 100,000)
 
The U.S. cities with the highest murder rates:
New Orleans (49.1 per 100,000)
St. Louis (40.5 per 100,000)
Baltimore (34.8 per 100,000)
 
I've only been to Colombia ONCE but I felt pretty safe.  Good to remember to do one's research and stick to the safe areas.  Same advice you'd give to a tourist from overseas visiting the U.S.
 
 
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: dennislevy on November 08, 2011, 09:02:40 AM
When I lived in Bogota for two years, I dated women in rough barrios in Suba and Bosa  and if I had not been with them, I couldn t have found a single decent reason to be by myself in those barrios.   

As a gringo, if you re in those kind of neighborhoods, you need a SPONSOR, its usually a novia.

I ve been in a lot of cities and towns WAY off the gringo trail in Colombia....and I stood out, I cant hide my height, my weight or that I m a white man , but I NEVER had a problem, NO ONE ever accosted me.... The key for me was  too live QUIETLY. 

You have to have street smarts to live SOTB, as you would in the US. 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: vikingo on November 08, 2011, 03:09:56 PM
'During the course of 2011, the National Police has arrested 2486 people accused of murder', this from "El País", April 29, 2011. Four months of the year times 3 is roughly 7500 murderers arrested in 2011 in the entire country.
You could say in some cases the police has the wrong guy, but you could also say that some of these criminals killed more than one person, it should somehow average out. Now the majority of murders remain normally unsolved in Colombia. The usual scenario is a drive-by involving 2 hired killers on a motorcycle (sicarios) or they shoot the victim pulling alongside his car. Then they take off rapidly and before anyone realizes that someone got shot, they are long gone. Keep in mind that they are wearing helmets with dark face shields which are perfectly legal here and often use a stolen bike. They will never be caught, it stands to reason.
These asassinations hardly ever involve a foreigner, unless they stole somebody's girlfriend. Now there are ways to stay out of trouble:
Be careful who you are dating, ask what happened with her last boyfriend and how long ago they broke up.
Never be a witness to a crime, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Stay out of very poor barrios, especially at night.
Never for a second take your eyes of your drink and don't accept a drink from a stranger unless you see the bartender pooring it for you.
Never walk the streets intoxicated and don't take just any old taxi that happen to come along, there have been cases when a gunman was hiding in the trunk.
If someone is eagerly trying to make friends with you, be careful and don't follow him or her to their apartment.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: dennislevy on November 08, 2011, 04:21:23 PM
excellent advice, not much too add except

1. Don t carry anymore money then you need.... for that particular outing-
2. Don t wear ostentatious clothing or jewely .If you re fair skinned, got blonde hair and light eyes, you re wearing designer clothes and or sneakers and you ve got a gold chain arund your neck and a nice wristwatch, the odds of something happening to you just went up.,
3. If you insist on drinking mixed drinks in bars, be careful. Drinking out of previously sealed bottles, (beer, soda) is much safer
4. When you meet a woman for the first time, meet at a place where you feel safe, DON T go to her barrio if you don t know the geography of the city
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JimD on November 08, 2011, 04:30:12 PM
When you start talking about danger in different cities I don't think overall statistics are too meaningfull until you break them down geographically in those cities. This is equally the case with US cities where for example the high crime statistic for St. Louis comes mostly from  "North St. Louis" which is almost exclusively black. Exlude that area of the city and the statistic drops dramatically. I mean how many people think St. Louis is a notably dangerous city to live in?
.
Take a look at Cali then:
.
The highest homicide rates in Cali from a census in 2005 where in Comuna 20 which had 126 homicides per 100,000 inhabitants (Distrito de Aguablanca), Comuna 7 next door which had 119 (Barrio Alfozo Lopez), Comuna 9 had 100  (Barrio Alameda) followed by Comuna 14 with 91 (includes barrios such as Manuela Beltran). However these are barrios that gringos have absolutely no reason to visit. Some are even places that taxis refuse to go to. Then compare with places that gringos do regularly visit like  Comuna 2 which inludes Chipichape which had 34 and the lowest of all 24 in Comuna 17 which includes Unicentro. If gringos avoid the absolute worst barrios and as mentioned above don't stumble around drunk on Avenida Sexta at three in the morning there's very little likelyhood that anything bad will happen to them in Cali. I can't speak for other cities but can't imagine it's any different.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: vikingo on November 08, 2011, 08:55:19 PM
Dennis, thanks for adding valueable information and Jim, you hit the nail on the head, knowing the different barrios and which are safe or dangerous is of outmost importance and this applies to any city here just like it does in the States. This is where your date or girlfriend comes handy, they know their city, we usually don't. If you are new in any city ask people at your hotel, make yourself a list, this information is to important to leave it open to errors.
And like the man said, leave your Rolex and gold jewelry in the States, you are just asking for trouble, same goes for expensive shoes or tennis. Try to blend in, Colombian men don't wear bermudas or sandals. Not during the week anyway, but sometimes on weekends. Don't hang a camera around your neck, don't pull out a Blackberry cell phone and start talking in front of people. Get an inexpensive cell phone you use outside. Dont carry any money or a wallet in your back pockets. Use ATM's in major stores, walk around in the store for a while, don't leave immediately. Dont trust the vigilantes ( private armed guards) in stores or banks, they sometimes tip of the armed robbers. Don't trust anybody, you don't know well.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Researcher on November 08, 2011, 10:22:31 PM


      All good advice guys.Anyone that travels to another country needs to be aware of their surroundings.I think comparing levels of danger to US cities is of very little use but the example of knowing one's way around is a good one.Being a foreigner will make a person more of a target and if you can't speak the language that raises the danger level even more.

     There are some dangerous places in the US but overall it is a safe place to live.Go to a foreign country where life is cheap, many crimes go unsolved and there is an underfunded and corrupt law enforcement and things change.I remember seeing a story about a woman who moved to a remote area of Mexico.She loved it there until her house was robbed.When she called the police they said they couldn't investigate because they didn't have the money to buy gas to go there.That didn't surprise me at all.


           Researcher
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Deseo on November 08, 2011, 10:25:30 PM
When you start talking about danger in different cities I don't think overall statistics are too meaningfull until you break them down geographically in those cities. This is equally the case with US cities

Yes, I agree. Knowing what the good areas are and what areas to stay away from greatly increase one's odds of staying safe, be it in Colombia or the U.S.A.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: chameleon on November 08, 2011, 11:33:03 PM
One thing i picked up from jamie was the observation that the crime stats are worthless in colombia. They're cooked to a certain degree in US cities but there's probably an order of magnitude difference. I'd looked at murder rates and comforted myself with the fact that there were similar stats in US cities, but the reality is that there is so much other crime that just goes unreported that it doesn't come close to painting the whole picture. We're so often focused on the worst crimes, but tons of petty crime never even gets reported because colombians hold the opinion that reporting it is pointless. The situation is very different in the states where people report the tiniest little things that happen to them.


Nothing happened to me on my trip, but I think that something may have happened had I not been vigilant. I'll never know for sure, but Michelle (jamie's translator who was with me at the time), was thinking the same thing as me and she lives there full-time.


I'd read about scopolamine before heading down so I was aware of it. I had michelle with me much of the time but when i was alone i was always vigilant about not leaving drinks alone etc. Some of the ploys in the video may or may not have worked on me. God knows that the next time someone I don't know comes up to me in colombia i'm holding my damned breath and the forcefully exhaling as i turn in the other direction lol.


What startled me most was how easily a person can OD on it. At the end of the day I don't care if i get mugged/robbed and lose a few grand. I do care about ODing because the guy robbing me gives me less than a hundreth of a gram too much or something. That's scary.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on November 09, 2011, 08:19:04 AM
Quote
One thing i picked up from jamie was the observation that the crime stats are worthless in colombia. They're cooked to a certain degree in US cities but there's probably an order of magnitude difference. I'd looked at murder rates and comforted myself with the fact that there were similar stats in US cities, but the reality is that there is so much other crime that just goes unreported that it doesn't come close to painting the whole picture. We're so often focused on the worst crimes, but tons of petty crime never even gets reported because colombians hold the opinion that reporting it is pointless. The situation is very different in the states where people report the tiniest little things that happen to them.




i guarantee Colombias and Medellin's crime rate is way off the publicized  chart because a majority of it  is never reported. Why you might ask.......  many reasons. fear, retaliation, cops are crooked so why bother, dont want to look stupid, embarrassed, its how life is there, deal with it.   Unlike the US where most crimes are reported because we expect to get results, in colombia they know its a waste of time to report it.


just in my novias family in medellin , i  can think of  4 crimes in the last 2 years that were never reported, 2 minior 2 pretty major crimes. its just life there, life is cheap and they deal with it every day.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Micky on November 09, 2011, 09:44:30 AM
Exactly !!

 
And if you give it some thought.  Has there ever been a time when,  in the U.S.,   you have had some crap happen,  you call the cops - "well there is probably nothing we can do about it,  but you can come down, fill out a report,  in triplicate".  That would be the norm here,  on steroids.
 

Micky
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: chameleon on November 09, 2011, 09:49:57 AM



i guarantee Colombias and Medellin's crime rate is way off the publicized  chart because a majority of it  is never reported. Why you might ask.......  many reasons. fear, retaliation, cops are crooked so why bother, dont want to look stupid, embarrassed, its how life is there, deal with it.   Unlike the US where most crimes are reported because we expect to get results, in colombia they know its a waste of time to report it.


just in my novias family in medellin , i  can think of  4 crimes in the last 2 years that were never reported, 2 minior 2 pretty major crimes. its just life there, life is cheap and they deal with it every day.


Pretty much exactly what jaime told me. I actually dated two girls whose BFs had been killed. Do you think the murder rate is way off with other crimes? My view is it's maybe a bit more accurate, at least in the cities, because bodies are a bit hard to ignore. Even if you don't investigate, you at least have to count them.


The thing that made me most nervous was that I'd read about motorcycle robberies at gunpoint occurring frequently in rio and frankly, those guys on bikes with their dark helmets were everywhere. When i went to santa marta from baq one night, we had to go through this tiny village and the streets were packed with people that came right up to the taxi. It looked like a scene out of Mad Max with all the guys on bikes and the shabby surroundings. People were coming right up to the window and I really didn't feel very comfortable because i'm so obviously a gringo.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JimD on November 09, 2011, 01:55:44 PM
 I think some here are getting carried away with the notion that crime statistics get “cooked” in Colombia. There are legitimate reasons why crimes don’t show up in statistics. If a crime (like a cel phone getting stolen in the street) isn´t reported to the police how can it appear in the statistics? When it comes to homicides yes there are differences between statistics reported by the police for homicides compared with those reported by hospitals. Why? Because the police report who gets killed in the street. They don’t go by the hospital a week later to see how a wounded victim  is doing:
.
 
     “…el Coronel Luis Eduardo Martínez, comandante del Departamento de Policía Metropolitana de Medellín señalo que “Las cifras de Medicina Legal van a ser siempre diferentes a las de la Policía, porque nosotros nunca vamos a los hospitales a mirar quién llega herido de los municipios y se muere en el centro asistencial. Nosotros nunca vamos a los hospitales a mirar quiénes de los que hieren en la ciudad posteriormente se mueren. Nosotros llevamos el registro de homicidios con lo que hay en la calle, con lo que queda en la calle. Ya Medicina Legal tiene que hacer la necropsia y sumar, cuando llega el herido y muere, de Concordia o del Bajo Cauca”El punto principal es que la existencia de éstas diferencias entre fuentes no necesariamente debe ser reconciliado de entrada, ni tampoco implica que existan “razones perversas” detrás de un mayor o menor registro de homicidios. Como el anterior ejemplo lo demuestra, entender la razón de estas diferencias permite conocer mejor la violencia homicida en Colombia.”
.
http://blog.cerac.org.co/%C2%BFque-hay-detras-de-las-diferencia-de-los-datos-de-homicidios-en-2009 (http://blog.cerac.org.co/%C2%BFque-hay-detras-de-las-diferencia-de-los-datos-de-homicidios-en-2009)
.
At the same time it’s true that there has been major “cooking” but by the military not the police as was the case with the “falsos positivos”.  That occurred under President Alvaro Uribe when military personel killed some civilians and dressed them up as guerrilla in order to be able to show higher FARC death counts. 
.
Colombia really is not the totally alien world  that some gringos like to make out. Anyway as far as danger goes in the time I've been here, as I've said elsewhere I've had two close calls with death and neither had anything to do with a human being.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Researcher on November 09, 2011, 07:47:08 PM


      I don't know JimD some gringos walking around there sure do look like they are from another planet.A sure sign of a newbie to SA is a gringo who walks around like he owns the place.As if he has the same freedom and rights as he does in the US.To guys who have alot of experience there the situation is old hat.It is normal to those that live there as well.I remember after a few years of traveling to Colombia a song that described the place well for me was this one:

They're pickin' up the prisoners
And puttin em in a pen
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
Rebels been rebels Since I don't know when
And all she wants to do is dance
Molotov cocktail the local drink
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
They mix em up right In the kitchen sink
And all she wants to do is dance
Crazy people walkin round with blood in their eyes
And all she wants to do is dance, dance, dance
Wild-eyed pistols wavers who ain't afraid to die
And all she wants to do is dance
And make romance
She can't feel the heat
Comin off the street
She wants to party
She wants to get down
All she wants to do is
All she wants to do is dance

 hehehe! All She Wants to do is Dance by Don Henley pretty much nails it, at least for the 90's it did.


     Researcher
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on December 21, 2011, 03:00:54 PM
my friend in medellin went by my old bldg too talk to a friend who still lives there. guess one of the guards that i used to know got shot last week in a robbery, didnt kill him, but was in the hospital for 4 days." In the  wrong place at the wrong time" , walking down the street from a store when a robber started shooting  when he saw the cops, and just happen to hit him, robber got away  >:(
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: V_Man on January 14, 2012, 09:42:05 PM
Quote
Then compare with places that gringos do regularly visit like  Comuna 2 which inludes Chipichape which had 34 and the lowest of all 24 in Comuna 17 which includes Unicentro.

The population of Comuna 17 is 104,000 and the population of Comuna 2 is 103,000. Hence this is just under 24 homicides per 100,000 and 34 per 100,000 respectively. More or less.

In Australia the homicide rate is 1.2 per 100,000 people.
In New Zealand the homicide rate is 1.2 100,000 people and this includes: conspiracy to murder, attempting to procure a murder, accessory after the fact to murder, manslaughter, infanticide, illegal abortion, aiding suicide, capable fatal traffic incidents and industrial accidents causing death.
In both countries most homicides are where the victim was known to the attacker. I.e. relationship violence. E.g. mother kills little daughter.

Now if you were to take away the drug related crime and the domestic crime from the figures quoted for Cali you will still have a risk that this several times higher.
The reality is that a tourist staying away from drugs is unlikely to get killed in Cali. My point is that you need to take a lot more precautions that you would in other countries.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JimD on January 15, 2012, 10:00:17 AM
These asassinations hardly ever involve a foreigner, unless they stole somebody's girlfriend.

Of course an exception was Robert Vignola:
http://www.planet-love.com/index.php?topic=1775.0 (http://www.planet-love.com/index.php?topic=1775.0)
 
 
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on February 13, 2012, 09:57:48 PM
from a girl i know in medellin, brother was robbed today by three guys on calle 10 near poblado.


3 guys with knives, just for a phone and little money.








el sali de la universidad[/l]
[/font][/color]

  • y 3 hombres lo cojieron con cuchillos

  • y le robaron 3000 pesos y su blackberry
  • [/l]
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Gato4Astrid on February 14, 2012, 09:09:51 AM
from a girl i know in medellin, brother was robbed today by three guys on calle 10 near poblado.


3 guys with knives, just for a phone and little money.








el sali de la universidad[/l]
[/font][/color]

  • y 3 hombres lo cojieron con cuchillos

  • y le robaron 3000 pesos y su blackberry
  • [/l]
    [/l][/l]
$1,000 peso each, 50 cent, 30p each !!!! 



[/list]
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Gato4Astrid on February 14, 2012, 09:14:52 AM

Of course an exception was Robert Vignola:
http://www.planet-love.com/index.php?topic=1775.0 (http://www.planet-love.com/index.php?topic=1775.0)


Walter Mora was murdered also, but was he non-Colombiano?
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on February 14, 2012, 10:29:23 AM
walter mora? wow havent heard that name in a long time, he was colombian, but lived in usa for a while. didnt know he was killed also, but not surprised, he used to pimp out his novia, what a class guy.




Quote
1,000 peso each, 50 cent, 30p each !!!! 




they were after the blackberry phone, not the $$$ you dont know how many people i know in medellin who have gotten robbed for a lousy phone.



Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Micky on February 14, 2012, 12:23:09 PM
Both Robert and Walter were killed by hit men,  not that it makes a great deal of difference.  It was said at the time,  Walter owed money to the "guys" and was not paying back.  Robert was muddy,  speculation,  about his wife's family political involvement,  he also had a casino in Cali and went bankrupt and other money problems.  There is no CSI - Cali.  I am not trying to waterdown the deal here,  just that those were not random acts.

 
Micky
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JimD on February 14, 2012, 05:19:39 PM
Interesting. To this day no one knows for a fact (or has publicly stated) why Robert or Walter were killed. Today the BBC reported that two gay priests paid hitmen close to eighteen million pesos to kill them. Maybe the talk we hear of $400.000 hits is pura paja.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: michaelb on February 14, 2012, 07:26:02 PM
They paid 18,000,000 to have themselves killed? Or to have Walter and Robert killed?
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Fuzzyone on February 14, 2012, 08:37:05 PM
They paid 18,000,000 to have themselves killed? Or to have Walter and Robert killed?


  I think themselves right?
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: JimD on February 15, 2012, 05:10:47 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17032567 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17032567)
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Gato4Astrid on February 15, 2012, 08:03:13 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17032567 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17032567)


Romeo and Julio !!!
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Gato4Astrid on February 15, 2012, 08:06:56 AM
Walter owed money to the "guys" and was not paying back. 
 
Micky


 How will they get their money back when Walter is killed plus they also lose money on hiring these "hitmen" ?







Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: michaelb on February 15, 2012, 08:24:29 AM

 How will they get their money back when Walter is killed plus they also lose money on hiring these "hitmen" ?

True, they don't get their money back from Walter........but everybody else who owes them gets the message loud and clear that the "guys" are not people you want to welsh on.
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: Micky on February 15, 2012, 02:06:03 PM
Gato -

Another rhetorical question from you.  As Michaelb    stated,  and is fairly universal,  Mobsters of all types kill to keep all the other boys and girls in line.

For you to even ask that question is stupid,  I am NOT calling you stupid,  but your question was.  This is coming from a man that made a post about having his girlfriends ex-husband killed.  Why would you say something like that?  You do not think he is a "good" person,  because he transports a kid on a motor bike (if that were the case you would want literally tens of thousands of men AND women killed here in Colombia,  as the scooter is THE most common form of transportation).  Do you just type and hit send without thinking?

This thread is about being careful in Colombia.  It is NOT Kansas or Yorkshire.  The culture of violence here is decades old.  Things are better now,  but it will take generations and improvement every step of the way to get there.  Until that time,  one has to be cautious here.  Mudd said it,  and it is very true,  people here are robbed here EVERYDAY for cell phones and chump change,  it IS the reality of Colombia.

The part about how much it costs for a hit.  There was an article where a pro hitman was interviewed (from Medellin).  Just from memory (old and bad),  he was on a retainer of approx. 800,000 COP a month and was paid approx. 3,000,000 when he had to do a job.  This is pointless as I am sure that you can pay more and you can pay less.

Micky
Title: Re: careful in medellin, from a expat who lives there
Post by: mudd on February 19, 2012, 11:49:04 AM
Quote
This thread is about being careful in Colombia.  It is NOT Kansas or Yorkshire.  The culture of violence here is decades old.  Things are better now,  but it will take generations and improvement every step of the way to get there.  Until that time,  one has to be cautious here.  Mudd said it,  and it is very true,  people here are robbed here EVERYDAY for cell phones and chump change,  it IS the reality of Colombia.The part about how much it costs for a hit.  There was an article where a pro hitman was interviewed (from Medellin).  Just from memory (old and bad),  he was on a retainer of approx. 800,000 COP a month and was paid approx. 3,000,000 when he had to do a job.  This is pointless as I am sure that you can pay more and you can pay less.


you got it


if you know the right locals, a semi professional hit is $ 500 usd. cheap local hit $ 300, professional $ 1000.  happens every week in medellin, just most of it  is never reported.