Follow Up Question: What's the best way to study Spanish, what should I focus on

[kai #2]

I've been studying Spanish for while but I think I plateaued. Present tenses aren't hard, 2 past tense (preliterate and imperfect) i think I've been working on that for a while and I think I finally got a hold of it. I'm trying to get a better hold of better use of prepositions and learning to translate on context instead of direct translations. I haven't even bothered looking into the subjunctive form yet. However is there a better way of going about it, expanding my vocabulary list and still learning the different nuances of the language? What worked for you outside of getting married

[Gavan]

I think a good way to learn is to go to a country, stay for a few months and take Spanish clases there. Here is a good Spanish school in Peru: http://elsol.idiomasperu.com/

[kai #2]

That really is the best way of going about it. I don't know how old you are but it almost feels as thought I missed the bus to do some of this stuff. I can't do that this year but next year I most certainly will for sure

I think a good way to learn is to go to a country, stay for a few months and take Spanish clases there. Here is a good Spanish school in Peru: http://elsol.idiomasperu.com/

[benjio]

I've been studying Spanish for while but I think I plateaued. Present tenses aren't hard, 2 past tense (preliterate and imperfect) i think I've been working on that for a while and I think I finally got a hold of it. I'm trying to get a better hold of better use of prepositions and learning to translate on context instead of direct translations. I haven't even bothered looking into the subjunctive form yet. However is there a better way of going about it, expanding my vocabulary list and still learning the different nuances of the language? What worked for you outside of getting married

Kai,


I feel your pain!! The hardest thing for me was the present subjunctive tense. Like with "tener," the verb for "to have." I always tended to say things like "Quiero tu tener un buen tiempo" when I first got started. When in reality it's, "Quiero que tengas..." I looked back at some past emails from years ago that I wrote to Spanish Speaking friends while cleaning up my email account recently and couldn't do anything but laugh. You'll get there though! We all struggle with something when it comes to learning a foreign language. Immersion and time are the keys. Nothing like just diving in and making a fool of yourself until someone corrects you (which can be difficult at times because most Latinos are really polite and would rather just let your mistakes slide). 


I don't recall what city you live in but most big cities in the U.S. have foreign language groups that meet up for events (like bowling, Margarita Night, etc.) and everyone agrees to only speak the language everyone else is trying to learn. Search the internet for one of those. They can be a fun way to meet new people and invaluble if you're trying to become fluent in a foreign language. Best of luck!

[kai #2]

That has come to mind and I will be looking into that. I need to do something else, I just wasn't sure that 'something else' was. I don't expect to fluent by the end of year or anything and I think my expectations are rather reasonable but damn! So much to know and learn, it seems like such a daunting task sometimes

Kai,


I feel your pain!! The hardest thing for me was the present subjunctive. Like with "tener," the verb for "to have." I always tended to say things like "Quiero tu tener un buen tiempo" when I first got started. When in reality it's, "Quiero que tengas..." I looked back at some past emails from years ago that I wrote to Spanish Speaking friends while cleaning up my email account recently and couldn't do anything but laugh. You'll get there though! We all struggle with something when it comes to learning a foreign language. Immersion and time are the keys. Nothing like just diving in and making a fool of yourself until someone corrects you (which can be difficult at times because most Latinos are really polite and would rather just let your mistakes slide).


I don't recall what city you live in but most big cities in the U.S. have foreign language groups that meet up for events (like bowling, Margarita Night, etc.) and everyone agrees to only speak the language everyone else is trying to learn. Search the internet for one of those. They can be a fun way to meet new people and invaluble if you're trying to become fluent in a foreign language.

[LatinSharpei]

Just study and try the best you can.  Most girls will respect the effort that you are trying.  My spanish is okay but its a gringo form of  the language.  The girls understand what I say but at times I accidentally ask them questions that are totally not what I mean.  I was really hot one day out there and I asked her if she was caliente.   Well down there I just asked her if she was horney.  She was like WTF. Then I told her that I think I put my foot in my mouth.  Well that saying does not have any meaning there so since I was using an agency the translator had to explain all that.  But just get a good vocab and decent understanding of the language.  You will pick up alot of it as you are down there submersed in the language. Being I have had 3 trips now I pretty much am comfortable communicating down there.  Give it time and you will be down there spitting out the language with no problem.  I would recommend you go where there is translation services available till you are comfortable with the language.  I still use one till I know the girl and to give you an idea of my spanish level my managers make me talk with Telefonica and Bestel cause they can not get thier points across in english at times.  In the end you will have a special way to communicate with your girls you meet.  It strengthens a bond with them working through the barrier

[robert angel]

Just study and try the best you can.  Most girls will respect the effort that you are trying.  My spanish is okay but its a gringo form of  the language.  The girls understand what I say but at times I accidentally ask them questions that are totally not what I mean.  I was really hot one day out there and I asked her if she was caliente.   Well down there I just asked her if she was horney.  She was like WTF. Then I told her that I think I put my foot in my mouth.  Well that saying does not have any meaning there so since I was using an agency the translator had to explain all that.  But just get a good vocab and decent understanding of the language.  You will pick up alot of it as you are down there submersed in the language. Being I have had 3 trips now I pretty much am comfortable communicating down there.  Give it time and you will be down there spitting out the language with no problem.  I would recommend you go where there is translation services available till you are comfortable with the language.  I still use one till I know the girl and to give you an idea of my spanish level my managers make me talk with Telefonica and Bestel cause they can not get thier points across in english at times.  In the end you will have a special way to communicate with your girls you meet.  It strengthens a bond with them working through the barrier

Learning Spanish is certainly easier said than done. My wife and I were driving to meet Whitey and his very lovely wife last week. Along the way, I thought I'd try and recall a few common, polite phrases in Spanish, just in case they might have turned out to be useful. Having seen photographs of her, I wanted to be able to say "You're very pretty" to Whitey's wife (an under estimate as it turns out) and my wife said" "Honey--I think there's something similar in Spanish that means "You're very short or small" (not the case) so to avoid embarrassing confusement, we decided not to try practicing our Spanish on the first visit! Turns out, her conversational English and comprehension was just fine, but L.S., glad it wasn't warm where we met, as like you, I'd really have come up lame if it was and I then said to everyone "Are you guys 'caliente?"

[Gavan]

I'd really have come up lame if it was and I then said to everyone "Are you guys 'caliente?"

These guys ARE Kaliente 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b9vLY3Kt0Q

[fathertime]

Hey Kai, it sounds like you are doing pretty darn good with the Spanish.  If you keep at it, it will only get better and soon you will realize that you are in a good place.  A couple ideas for you:


1.  I sometimes made flashcards and carried them with me and would review them often....this really helped my vocabulary...you could also keep it next to bed and take a quick look before you fall asleep...as a matter of fact maybe it would aid in putting you to sleep.


2.  I have gathered that you travel for long periods of time, if that is the case perhaps finding a local contact and paying a nominal sum for on the ground private lessons would be a fun and good investment. 


Regarding you being too old to learn...I don't think so, sure it may never come totally naturally but I still believe you can get to a very high level if you really want it and stick to it. 


Fathertime! 

[kai #2]

Thanks FT. Your last suggestion had crossed my mind but I wasn't sure since I'd be bouncing around a bit. I wasn't how feasible it'd be. The flash cards is a good idea but I think I'd rather buy some from barnes and Noble or something. Fortunatly future tense is pretty damn simple

Hey Kai, it sounds like you are doing pretty darn good with the Spanish.  If you keep at it, it will only get better and soon you will realize that you are in a good place.  A couple ideas for you:


1.  I sometimes made flashcards and carried them with me and would review them often....this really helped my vocabulary...you could also keep it next to bed and take a quick look before you fall asleep...as a matter of fact maybe it would aid in putting you to sleep.


2.  I have gathered that you travel for long periods of time, if that is the case perhaps finding a local contact and paying a nominal sum for on the ground private lessons would be a fun and good investment. 


Regarding you being too old to learn...I don't think so, sure it may never come totally naturally but I still believe you can get to a very high level if you really want it and stick to it. 


Fathertime!

[Awesome]

Kai don't you live in dallas texas?  Dallas has a HUGE latino population and a signigicant portion of that population speaks little to no english.  You DO NOT have to leave dallas to find latin america.  Go to restaurants in oak cliff, pleasant grove, northwest highway-harry hines area and chat up the waitresses.  Go during off peak hours like 2pm on a monday or tuesday and you'll have the whole place to yourself.  There might be 3 or 4 waitress sitting around doing nothing and would love to chat with a nice young gentleman and help him practice his spanish.  If you find a place where you like and you're treated good, keep going to the same place.  There's a honduran place right at coit and pleasant valley and another one on w mockingbird right before the bridge going to west dallas.


If you like pony bars, my second home in dtown is billares reforma on nw highway and webb chapel ext, I'm in that place 3 or 4 nights a week when I'm in town.  Go in drink a couple beers to loosen up and then start talking to the chicas.  They have everything from larger older women to very hot thin 20 year olds.  I freaking love that place.  If you're into strip clubs(which I am) go to chicas bonitas on harry hines by walnut hill, my third home in dtown.  I was in that place at least once a week.  Ice cold beer, good spanish music, and naked latinas all over the place.  I was in heaven!  If you're going to practice your spanish you might as well have a blast doing it, right?  


If you want nicer, upscale latin places check out https://www.facebook.com/vipdallasentertainment.  They promote all the latest latin hotspots.  If you want a ghetto but still very fun place check out Khalua on harry hines.  Hit escapade on 35 stemmons and go upstairs to the musica tropical club upstairs.


In dallas you can EASILY EASILY find you a girl/girls to date who speak little to no english.  To me that's the best way to practice spanish.


Keep studying the grammar and vocabulary like you're doing, but ACTUALLY USING IT IN REAL LIFE SITUATIONS is just as important.  Trust me, I know.  I didn't learn spanish until I was already in my 20's, and I'm still learning to this day.

[robert angel]

Really respect you guys for trying and doing, but probably the only way I could learn a foreign language is full immersion--'sink or swim'. That way, I'd have to, because I'd otherwise be very frustrated. Generally speaking, the older you are the harder it is, but my brain wasn't wired for learning a second language from the start.

[the_ace33]

Rosetta Stone was my ticket,  also chatting online with chicas.  you want to be able to see the words and hear the pronunciation aswell to get the full picture.  the program is expensive but very affective if you use it.  take it from someone who knew absolutely no Spanish until about 5 years ago.  the more you practice the better you get.  also you will have to do some verb study to supplement what the program shows you.  write down all of the most important verbs and study them past present and future.  start in the present tense.  write them out like this.   

yo hablo
el habla
ellos hablan
nosotros hablamos

Robert your suggestion sounds good but you do not want to try something like that until you have atleast a base knowledge.   KIA if you already have that I would still recommend the rosetta stone just start in 3 and write out your verbs in all tenses.  I could use some practice in that aswell.

[michaelb]

  Close Ace, but the preferred order that any text book or dictionary lists them in is:
 
 yo hablo            nosotros hablamos
 tú hablas           vosotros habláis
 él habla             ellos hablan
 
 This order is:
 1st person singular            1st person plural
 2nd person singular           2nd person plural
 3rd person singular            3rd person plural
 
 Subject pronouns are:
1st singular
 I = yo
 
2nd singular
 you =  tú (some countries use vos instead, but tú is much more common and will be understood even in a vos country). Note: Be careful who you use this with, your girlfriend, small children, domestic animals and CLOSE friends and family are OK. Police officers, other government public servants, waiters, store clerks, business associates, your boss and other strangers, particularly authority figures, are NOT OK unless they have specifically invited you to, equivalent to “Don’t call me MR. Smith, my name is Fred.” in English. What about your prospective mother-in-law or father-in-law? Ask your girlfriend’s advice before you meet them. In some families it will be like “Hey, you’re practically family now, you don’t have to be so formal.”  In others, not even his own children get to call the old man tú, and some foreign no-good-nick such as YOU certainly better not..
 
3rd singular
 he = él
 she = ella
it = él if masculine object,  ella if feminine object
 you =  usted (often abbreviated Ud. or Vd.)
 1st plural
 we = nosotros if all masculine or mixed gender, nosotras if all feminine
 
2nd plural
 you =vosotros  if all masculine or mixed gender, vosotras if all feminine  Note: VERY seldom used except in very old literature and/or poems. You probably won't see or hear it and certainly won't have any reason to use it----if you think you need to use it, use the ustedes form of 3rd plural instead
 
 
3rd plural
they = ellos if all masculine or mixed gender, ellas if all feminine
you = ustedes (often abbreviated Uds. Or Vds.)
 
 
OK, so what’s all this masculine/feminine/gender stuff? Pretty simple, if it’s something that has a sex, such as a person or an animal, male is masculine, female is feminine. If it’s not a person nor animal, then you can usually tell which it is by the spelling. If it ends in the letter a it is feminine, if it ends in ion it is feminine, most anything else it is masculine. This gender agreement comes into play not only when deciding when to use ellos or ellas. Not only do subject pronouns have to have the correct gender, so do adjectives…..but that’s for another time. Notice my weasel words “usually” and “most” instead of “always” and “all”.. That’s because they throw in just enough words that don’t follow the spelling rule to trip you up…….but that’s OK, if you get one wrong it’s not a crime and you will be both understood and forgiven.
 

[kai #2]

That's legit, I have been to escapades though. I'm not sure If I'd ever go back there again but the other places would worth giving a shot I'll have to check out that Honduran restaurant. There are a lot Hispanics at work but I'm working and its kinda of difficult. I do most of extra curricular socializing on the weekends

Kai don't you live in dallas texas?  Dallas has a HUGE latino population and a signigicant portion of that population speaks little to no english.  You DO NOT have to leave dallas to find latin america.  Go to restaurants in oak cliff, pleasant grove, northwest highway-harry hines area and chat up the waitresses.  Go during off peak hours like 2pm on a monday or tuesday and you'll have the whole place to yourself.  There might be 3 or 4 waitress sitting around doing nothing and would love to chat with a nice young gentleman and help him practice his spanish.  If you find a place where you like and you're treated good, keep going to the same place.  There's a honduran place right at coit and pleasant valley and another one on w mockingbird right before the bridge going to west dallas.


If you like pony bars, my second home in dtown is billares reforma on nw highway and webb chapel ext, I'm in that place 3 or 4 nights a week when I'm in town.  Go in drink a couple beers to loosen up and then start talking to the chicas.  They have everything from larger older women to very hot thin 20 year olds.  I freaking love that place.  If you're into strip clubs(which I am) go to chicas bonitas on harry hines by walnut hill, my third home in dtown.  I was in that place at least once a week.  Ice cold beer, good spanish music, and naked latinas all over the place.  I was in heaven!  If you're going to practice your spanish you might as well have a blast doing it, right?  


If you want nicer, upscale latin places check out https://www.facebook.com/vipdallasentertainment.  They promote all the latest latin hotspots.  If you want a ghetto but still very fun place check out Khalua on harry hines.  Hit escapade on 35 stemmons and go upstairs to the musica tropical club upstairs.


In dallas you can EASILY EASILY find you a girl/girls to date who speak little to no english.  To me that's the best way to practice spanish.


Keep studying the grammar and vocabulary like you're doing, but ACTUALLY USING IT IN REAL LIFE SITUATIONS is just as important.  Trust me, I know.  I didn't learn spanish until I was already in my 20's, and I'm still learning to this day.

[Gavan]

   
vosotros habláis

This is Spanish from Spain and isn't used in Latin America. Spanish from Spain is actually very different. There are even huge differences between countries in Latin America, sometimes even WITHIN countries.


Listen to this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LjDe4sLER0

[kai #2]

Even Rosette Stone has different settings for Spain Spanish and Latin America Spanish. Even country to country Spanish varies.

This is Spanish from Spain and isn't used in Latin America. Spanish from Spain is actually very different. There are even huge differences between countries in Latin America, sometimes even WITHIN countries.


Listen to this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LjDe4sLER0

[robert angel]

Rosetta Stone was my ticket,  also chatting online with chicas.  you want to be able to see the words and hear the pronunciation aswell to get the full picture.  the program is expensive but very affective if you use it.  take it from someone who knew absolutely no Spanish until about 5 years ago.  the more you practice the better you get.  also you will have to do some verb study to supplement what the program shows you.  write down all of the most important verbs and study them past present and future.  start in the present tense.  write them out like this.   

yo hablo
el habla
ellos hablan
nosotros hablamos

Robert your suggestion sounds good but you do not want to try something like that until you have atleast a base knowledge.   KIA if you already have that I would still recommend the rosetta stone just start in 3 and write out your verbs in all tenses.  I could use some practice in that aswell.

You're probably right, but knowing my style, whether it's Math or another language, I'd do best with the simplest book, not a series of books, stages or steps before being immersed and having to buy my food, handle transportation to begin to catch on.

Everybody is genetically determined--'born' as either a predominantly visual OR auditory learner. I have trouble sometimes remembering and writing down a phone number given to me verbally, but I easily remember a number I've read visually. Again a bit off topic, but tests have shown that most women can be in a room, say at a party, and be able to listen in and get 'the gist' of several simultaneous conversations, while most guys can at best focus in on and recall one.


Yes, in learning a language we need some initial 'training wheels' but that term lends myself to the fact that you might read a book on 'how to ride a bicycle' or 'how to swim', but you have to actually get on the bike or in the water and 'just do it' to really learn how to ride or swim. Yea, some initial, preliminary pointers are good and a person by your side may be golden, but I'd never wade through dozens of lesson sequences.

Guess I'm ADD on top of being a very visual oriented learner and what I learn has to have immediate utility and has to be used quickly. Most people who've already learned a language, even beyond high school and don't use it for a while, lose most of it, although they may reacquire it faster than a pure rookie might learn it.

[buencamino]

What I have experienced in Colombia is that people from the lower stratas use "usted" even within their own families using "tu" only with small children. Upper class (and invariably university educated) Colombians on the other hand use "tu" even with people they don't know but recognise as being upper class. I have been addressd as "tu" numerous times in the outskirts of Cali by people (obviously upper class) I don't know who are asking me directions. Once an elderly campesino trudging along an unpaved road near where I live asked me for a ride. In the car we started chatting and he addressed me as "tu". Right away I suspected things weren't as they seemed since no campesino or mayordomo would use that promoun with me. Sure enough it turned out he had been a lawyer in his working years but was obviously now down on his luck (i.e. broke) for whatever reasons and lived in a little chosa out in the campo. He hadn't lost his customary response to people of his own class.

[Gavan]

What I have experienced in Colombia is that people from the lower stratas use "usted" even within their own families using "tu" only with small children.

I have never been to Colombia but I have watched some Colombian telenovelas and I also noticed that. They even call their friends and family members "usted". I have also heard that in certain áreas of Colombia they say "vos", like in Argentina. I think Juanes uses it in some of his songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=filvhdzkylo

In Peru there is a huge difference between the Spanish they speak on the coast and in the highlands (Sierra). Serranos use "vos" instead of "tu" (at least in the Northern Sierra) and their accent is very, very different. It is like they are from a different country.

[kai #2]

Is it comparable to how Deep Southerners or people from Boston talk in comparison w/ the the rest of the United States?

I have never been to Colombia but I have watched some Colombian telenovelas and I also noticed that. They even call their friends and family members "usted". I have also heard that in certain áreas of Colombia they say "vos", like in Argentina. I think Juanes uses it in some of his songs.

In Peru there is a huge difference between the Spanish they speak on the coast and in the highlands (Sierra). Serranos use "vos" instead of "tu" (at least in the Northern Sierra) and their accent is very, very different. It is like they are from a different country.

[Gavan]

Is it comparable to how Deep Southerners or people from Boston talk in comparison w/ the the rest of the United States?

Well, I'm not that familiar with the different accents and dialects in the US (I'm from Belgium), but yeah, I would guess it is similar.

[robert angel]

In Peru there is a huge difference between the Spanish they speak on the coast and in the highlands (Sierra). Serranos use "vos" instead of "tu" (at least in the Northern Sierra) and their accent is very, very different. It is like they are from a different country.

As time passes, regional differences in languages and sub dialects are disappearing worldwide. That said, there are still some very strong differences between some areas within countries. Distinct languages, perhaps due to cities encroaching on the country sides, along with effects of the mass media, are disappearing rapidly--many thousands have been lost already and an est. 3500 more are expected to be lost this century.

Linguistic studies can be interesting, not as much now, but by listening to your 'accent' some linguistic experts used to be able to more easily tell within a few city blocks, where you lived in the seven boroughs of NYC or in a similarly small area of Boston, etc. Not so easy anymore, but they're still pretty good at pinpointing exactly where you're from by the way you speak. I have a mixture of a Bronx, Caribbean, Midwestern USA and Southern Georgia accent, LOL.

There are parts of the Philippines, notably but not limited to Zamboanga, where it's pretty much Spanish, in fact they don't even consider it a dialect, but a distinct language--"Chavacano", which has at least six distinct regional dialects within it. In those areas, you can pretty much speak, listen and understand their native language if you speak Spanish, although most of the folks there also speak English to some degree.

>>>The Chavacano language is the only Spanish-based creole in Asia. It has survived for more than 400 years, making it one of the oldest creole languages in the world. Among Philippine languages, it is the only one which does not belong to the family of Austronesian languages, although it shows a characteristic common to the sub-classification of Malayo-Polynesian languages, the reduplication.

Dialects:

This creole has six dialects. Their classification is based on their substrate languages and the regions where they are commonly spoken. The three known dialects of Chavacano which have Tagalog as their substrate language are the Luzon-based creoles of which are Caviteño (spoken in Cavite City), Bahra or Ternateño (spoken in Ternate, Cavite) and Ermiteño (once spoken in the old district of Ermita in Manila and is now extinct).<<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavacano_language

[benjio]

Linguistic studies can be interesting, not as much now, but by listening to your 'accent' some linguistic experts used to be able to more easily tell within a few city blocks, where you lived in the seven boroughs of NYC or in a similarly small area of Boston, etc. Not so easy anymore, but they're still pretty good at pinpointing exactly where you're from by the way you speak. I have a mixture of a Bronx, Caribbean, Midwestern USA and Southern Georgia accent, LOL.

Amazing! I would have like to have seen that done when it was easier to differentiate one dialect from the next. What an ice breaker at a bar that would have been. "Talk to my buddy for 5 minutes. If he can tell you where you're from within 3 blocks, you buy us a drink." LOL! Only reason that would have been difficult in NYC is people tend to drink at their neighborhood bar or pub anyway...so it's not likely many people would have taken the bet. Good stuff Robert.

[Gavan]

There are parts of the Philippines, notably but not limited to Zamboanga, where it's pretty much Spanish, in fact they don't even consider it a dialect, but a distinct language--"Chavacano", which has at least six distinct regional dialects within it. In those areas, you can pretty much speak, listen and understand their native language if you speak Spanish, although most of the folks there also speak English to some degree.

>>>The Chavacano language is the only Spanish-based creole in Asia. It has survived for more than 400 years, making it one of the oldest creole languages in the world. Among Philippine languages, it is the only one which does not belong to the family of Austronesian languages, although it shows a characteristic common to the sub-classification of Malayo-Polynesian languages, the reduplication.

Very interesting. I had heard that some Filipinos use Spanish words like "guapo" (for handsome), but I didn't know there was that much Spanish influence there. That Wikipedia article even says that most of the Spanish language influence is from MEXICAN Spanish and even Nahuatl (language of the Aztecs).

Here in Belgium we also have lots of different dialects. Some people from the coast here speak a dialect of Dutch (Flemish) that is so different that I can't even understand them sometimes. It is sometimes easier for me to understand Spanish than some of those dialects from West Flanders !