Beatriz and the tourist visa

[Pete E]

My novia Beatriz goes to the American Embassy in Bogota this Friday for her tourist visa interview.She has a chance I think because of her age, job and money.
She is 39,a nurse,college grad,17 years experience,9 years on her current job.She has a savings account at her work with several thousand dollars in it.I figure she has MAYBE a 50% chance of getting the visa,probably less.
The cost to apply was 36,000 pesos to get an interview appointment set,then $100 dollars,225,000 pesos or so fee,which she also paid at a bank but after she got the appointment.I don't know if she has to pay more if she gets the visa,we better find out so she has the money.Plus she is flying to Bogota from Cali,about 400,000 pesos and staying in a hotel one night,about 120,000 pesos plus taking taxis,about 80,000 pesos.Her Total cost to APPLY,about $400,paid by me of course.
It trully is for a vacation,I want to take her with me on my yearly one month summer trip to the states.It will probably cost me about $1500 for her share of the expenses.
One thing,imput desired from those with experience.I intend to write her a letter saying she will be my guest on the vacation.I am a Colombian resident who has lived here 27 months and left only for this vacation twice before.This is being strait with them.The fear is they will think I am intending to live there again and take her with me.It could work for or against us but she already has included lots of imformation about where she is going who she will be staying with that involves me.Were I not a Colombian resident who has been here awhile I am sure it would be a big negative.
She is also getting letter from the hospital and doctors where she works giving her the time off and supporting her visa.They would be the losers if she did not return.Her boss told her people who work their usually get their visas.But maybe they are usually doctors also.
We will see.I think there is some luck involved.Sometimes one person will get a visa another not with pretty identical circumstances.Maybe its if the person believes her.Maybe the interviewer hasn't given out a visa for awhile and figures its time. When she got her passport she kept saying,"yo voy Estados Unidos."I said baby the passport is easy.Don't get too excited untill you get your visa.

Pete

[Maestoso]

I wish you good fortune. But why don't you save that money that you are going to spend on vacation and use it for when she comes up permanently?

[Brazilophile]

Pete,

My experience with a tourist visa for a novia was in Brazil, not Colombia, so it may not apply very much.

All of the positive things you mentioned; job, education, savings, are important and will generally help her.  A potential negative is that her profession, nursing, is one in which there is a severe shortage in some areas of the US.  INS knows that she may receive some encouragement to stay and work here.

Other positives you didn't mention are family.  Beatriz is not married and doesn't have any children.  Does she have living parents?  siblings? nieces or nephews?  Other relatives who may depend on her for support?

I am most ambivalent about using yourself as a reference.  Check with a lawyer about that, say Gary Bala.  I have had more than one immigration lawyer tell me that if an unmarried American man is connected in any way to the tourist visa application of an unmarried woman, it will almost certainly be denied. When my novia came here last year, we were extremely careful to leave me out entirely.   We even made up a cover story about a European boyfriend, (because she had visited Europe), and she was asked about the strength of that relationship in her interview.  It may help you to do something similar so it doesn't look like Beatriz is completely unattached romantically.

[SocialDreg]

I agree that she should not mention that she has an American boyfriend.  But I sure wouldn't makeup some fraudulent cover story about having a boyfriend.  Do you think these people in the US Embassy in Bogota are stupid?

[soltero]

Pete,

My experience with a tourist visa for a novia was in Brazil, not Colombia, so it may not apply very much.

All of the positive things you mentioned; job, education, savings, are important and will generally help her.  A potential negative is that her profession, nursing, is one in which there is a severe shortage in some areas of the US.  INS knows that she may receive some encouragement to stay and work here.

Other positives you didn't mention are family.  Beatriz is not married and doesn't have any children.  Does she have living parents?  siblings? nieces or nephews?  Other relatives who may depend on her for support?

I am most ambivalent about using yourself as a reference.  Check with a lawyer about that, say Gary Bala.  I have had more than one immigration lawyer tell me that if an unmarried American man is connected in any way to the tourist visa application of an unmarried woman, it will almost certainly be denied. When my novia came here last year, we were extremely careful to leave me out entirely.   We even made up a cover story about a European boyfriend, (because she had visited Europe), and she was asked about the strength of that relationship in her interview.  It may help you to do something similar so it doesn't look like Beatriz is completely unattached romantically.

Pete is a Colombian resident. The fact that he LIVES there should balance out any negative connotations derived from him being an American. He takes these trips once a year and has come back, so hopefully they would be able to see that he is not trying to take Beatriz and bail. They live together in Colombia, and that should also filter through that they have a life together already and don't want to leave it. Not everybody wants to deal with life in America, If you have American money coming in, you could live much better somewhere else. I think guys are thinking about someone who is American taking brief trip South, instead of an American who is a Colombian resident and has the Cedula to prove it.

[zapata]

Soltero...makes no difference if he is a Colombian resident. So are you telling me that there is NO WAY that Pete may be tired of Colombia and wants to move back to the US???  And Beatriz will meet him there and they will live happily ever after??  This is what the Embassy will think. Pete be smart and take the advice of the above posters  Besides, Pete is out of the question as far as a reference goes, after all he lives in Colombia. what does that have to do with Beatriz going to the States to visit??  Oh yes,Pete will be there.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...ouch!!!!

Pete, if you want Beatriz to waste her time (and your money) write a reference letter and have her mention to the interviewer that you are her boyfriend and she'll be with you when she visits the US.   APPLICATION DENIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[conocerme]

A couple of years ago my inlaws from Cali applied for a tourist visa to come to visit us here in the U.S.  I thought they might have a good shot at one.  My suegro is an elderly retired accountant with a pension. My suegra has a talent agency business that she runs out of their home. I thought it would help that my sister-in-law (cunada) actually has had a tourist visa for around 10 years because she has a good job.  She has come to the U.S. and returned back to Colombia 3-4 times.  I hoped this would be a positive for my inlaws because she was living with them at that time.

They got shot down so quick it was ridiculous.  I felt so bad for them.  They traveled all that way and spent their hard earned money and it was over so quickly.  So much for giving lip service to encouraging family values.

Pete, I think it is a hard call about whether you should reveal that Beatriz is traveling with you and you have a relationship.  Soltero may be right that being a Colombian resident may balance this out.  But you are also still a U.S. citizen so they may think you have just decided to move back to the U.S. and take Beatriz with you.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope the Gods are shining on you both this Friday.

[Ray]

Pete,

As a “general rule”, romantic involvement with an American citizen = intending immigrant = visa denial.

However, I respect your decision to be up front and honest about her true intentions and not ask her to lie to the interviewing officer. If she comes across as truthful and genuine, then she probably has at least a decent chance considering your circumstances. An experienced consular officer is very difficult to lie to but an experienced immigration or customs officer is even less likely to buy a phony story. Remember, even if she has that visa in hand, it only gets her on the plane. Plan on her getting grilled by ICE at your Port of Entry with the possibility that they may send her right back home on the next plane.

That $100 visa application fee that she paid is the only fee for a non-immigrant visa, whether she is approved or not.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Ray

[soltero]

Soltero...makes no difference if he is a Colombian resident. So are you telling me that there is NO WAY that Pete may be tired of Colombia and wants to move back to the US???  And Beatriz will meet him there and they will live happily ever after??  This is what the Embassy will think. Pete be smart and take the advice of the above posters  Besides, Pete is out of the question as far as a reference goes, after all he lives in Colombia. what does that have to do with Beatriz going to the States to visit??  Oh yes,Pete will be there.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...ouch!!!!

Pete, if you want Beatriz to waste her time (and your money) write a reference letter and have her mention to the interviewer that you are her boyfriend and she'll be with you when she visits the US.   APPLICATION DENIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be right, and it seems as though many here would agree with you. I don't see Pete wanting to move back to America, but I know Pete, and if I had the opportunity to have a US cash flow, but also live in Colombia, I would have been gone yesterday. It seems to me that there may be some arrogance and prejudice involved in the decision making, probably beause most are trying to leave, but I don't see that in Beatriz. She is a professional person comfortable in her career. I would think that Pete would be a plus since he lives there and not just some guy visiting. Everyone seems to be over looking that fact, and also negating it as a plus.

All of your situations involve Americans who live here, not there.

Besides, Pete is out of the question as far as a reference goes, after all he lives in Colombia. what does that have to do with Beatriz going to the States to visit??  Oh yes,Pete will be there.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...ouch!!!!

She is going with Pete on a visit that he takes every year and goes back to Cali. I would think it would make some difference to a thinking person on the other side of the counter. The problem would probably be the odds are not good that they may find a thinking person. Without Pete in the picture she is going to have to lie. The truth would make more sense than a lie, and would show through past history that she would be coming back as he is coming back.[/quote]

[Maestoso]

maybe being up front and providing an itinery for the summer vacation might work wonders.

when in doubt, speak the truth. you have nothing to loose. If you win, you get the visa, if you loose you get your integrity and you can look your woman in the eye and kiss her.

besides its not like you don't have any options. You can easily marry the woman, and get her a green card etc, or even marry her and tell the embassy that you simply want her a visa to travel.

My parents are guyanese, and my father was an officer in the guyana police force. He got a 5 year visa to simply visit us in America during his vacation, because there was no way he was going to give up his comfy job and pension. when his green card came through, he simply travelled to the u.s once a year, until he reached retirement age.

now he's about to collect both social security from the u.s and his pension from guyana.

so the truth is always the perfect choice.

[Rebel]

Yes Pete get involved by writing a letter. Let them know she would be your guest and that you will be responsible.  Emphasize your age and stability. Also emphasize her age and stability by the things you mentioned about her job, bank account, etc. Does she have an active social life; i.e. volunteer activities, frequent contact with family, etc? Focus on things which bind her to her family and community. Prove to the embassy that she has strong ties in a variety of ways with her community and that she wouldn't want to give this up.

In the letter, let them know that you take an annual trip to the states and that you as well have ties to Colombia in the form of Dr.'s, leases, etc. Offer to provide them copies of leases and documents showing your own ties. Also offer to provide them if they want copies of documentation of your trip last year. This will show a pattern of regularity and can persuade them that this is just normal on your part.

You will be as much the issue as she will.  It will be hard to turn down by doing this. But be persistent if initially denied because it may require a more thorough review by more people.

Rebel

[SocialDreg]

that is a lot of information to show the consular officer in one minute.

[Ray]

Good point Dreg! One minute may be one of the "longer" interviews...

[utopiacowboy]

Good point Dreg! One minute may be one of the "longer" interviews...

You got that right. Normally the "interview" goes like this: "Denied! Next!".

[Pete E]

Yes they give you little time.We need to get right to the point.
My letter will state I am a Colombian residenrt in the first sentence.
Looks like we will go with the truth rather than make up some untrue agenda that does not include me.Then any questions can be answered honestly.
Gary Bala,Immigration lawyer says he thinks she has a 25% or less chance and mentioning me is probably a mistake,they look for a quick reason to deny.
We will see.


Pete

[Kiltboy1]

Pete

Just marry her. Problem Solved. You know she is the one for you and as i told you in Cali, YOU AIN'T GETTING ANY YOUNGER DON PETE !

KB

"JUST LOOKING FOR A WOMAN THAT WILL LET ME SCRATCH MY BALLS IN PEACE"

[Ray]

Pete

Just marry her.

Good advice! I'll second that.

[utopiacowboy]

Marriage would certainly eliminate a LOT of these kinds of problems. My wife's green card opens more doors than her Colombian passport.

[Cali James]

Would marriage really help?  Pete's a resident in Cali and no longer living in the U.S..  If Pete were to marry Beatrice, she would not able to get a residency visa in the States unless they plan on living in the States at least 6 months out of the year.  She could always apply for a tourist visa but then you're more or less back to the whims of the embassy officer it seems to me.  I think I must be missing some esoteric point cause Ray has posted his approval....

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend marriage unless you were planning on marrying in first place.

[SocialDreg]

She certainly could get a residency visa.  I know two people that went to Bogota and obtained spousal visas for their wives. It took about a month. One of them is about to lose hers because she hasn't been to the US for awhile.  I am not sure how much time you can spend outside of the US on a residency visa before you lose it.

[conocerme]

This is just what I have heard so do not take it as gospel.  I believe you can technically spend just inside of year outside of the U.S. if you have a green card but you may be hassled when you try to re-enter the country.  They generally look at a time past 6 months outside of the U.S. with suspicion that you are truly not a resident.  Under 6 months outside  - you are generally safe.

I know that if she ever tries to apply for citizenship you have to list all the dates that you have left the country and returned.  I also recall that you have to specifically explain the reasons for any absences over 6 months.
This may be an issue that they raise at the citizenship interview.

[Joeylikey]

Just got back from Bogota. I wish Beatriz all the luck. I had to register the birth of my daughter. Next to us was at least 1000 people sitting around waiting for interviews and other things. It was crazy. We stayed at the American Dream Hotel. Cost about 60 US dollars a night. It also was very close to the embassy. About  a 3 to 5 minute ride. Anyway, just thought I would put in my two cents.  Good luck.

[Ray]

I think I must be missing some esoteric point cause Ray has posted his approval....

Hi Cali,

I didn’t see your reference to my comments on marriage before so please excuse the late response. I may be wrong, but I though Pete had previously expressed an intent to marry his lady some day.

If Pete were to marry her, given his current circumstances, you are correct that he could not petition her for an immigrant spouse visa unless he were to move back to the U.S. and establish domicile there. Even then, you are correct that she would have to spend some reasonable time in the States or she would lose her residency status. But if she did live here long enough to acquire U.S. citizenship (3-4 years), then she could come and go pretty much as she pleased.

I’m not familiar with the local policies in Bogota, but I know of a couple of cases in Manila where U.S. citizens living in the Philippines and married to a Filipina lady were able to get tourist visas for their wives to make short trips to the U.S. to visit family and friends, etc.

I believe that the reasoning behind the consular officer’s decision to issue a visitor visa in these cases was based on the fact that the U.S. citizen husband was permanently living abroad and obviously had no apparent intention of relocating back in the U.S., making his wife ineligible for an immigrant visa. Even though she has a potential legal basis for immigration, the family is established and living together overseas and they apparently didn't see a significant threat that she would violate her visa and overstay.

There are some other benefits available to his wife if Pete were to marry in Colombia. She would be eligible for possible death benefits and inheritance rights if Pete wanted her to have something should he croak. She could even self petition for an immigrant visa under certain circumstances. If they were legally married for at least 2 years and living together overseas and Pete should keel over dead some day, she would have the option to file a petition (Form I-360) for permanent immigrant status within 2 years of his death if she were not remarried.

I think Pete would be wise to look into some of this stuff and think about what would become of her after he is gone from this world.

Ray

[RonnieReagan]

An American residing in Colombia on a Temporal TS pension visa can indeed take his wife to the US embassy and apply for a resident visa for her. In fact th process can be completed in a month or so, way faster than in the US. Since it is a "resident" visa she's applying for obviously they must show some US residence on the application.  Your brother's, your ex-wife's, your mom's whatever. If you have a Colombia pension visa in your passport all the embassy wants from you are copies of your last two years income tax returns. It's simple and quick.

[Ray]

An American residing in Colombia on a Temporal TS pension visa can indeed take his wife to the US embassy and apply for a resident visa for her. In fact th process can be completed in a month or so, way faster than in the US. Since it is a "resident" visa she's applying for obviously they must show some US residence on the application.  Your brother's, your ex-wife's, your mom's whatever. If you have a Colombia pension visa in your passport all the embassy wants from you are copies of your last two years income tax returns. It's simple and quick.

Ronnie,

You are mostly correct, but I would disagree with a few points.

I believe you are talking about the Direct Consular Filing (DCF) method of filing an I-130 petition for your spouse, where a U.S. citizen residing abroad can file directly at the U.S. Consulate in some cases. However, the U.S. citizen petitioner will have to show a stateside domicile before the petition can be processed. In Pete’s case, he may not be considered domiciled in the U.S. unless he has maintained a permanent residence back home. If he is clearly living abroad on a temporary basis, then he may be able to claim that he maintained a U.S. domicile, but from what I have heard here on the forum, he may not meet that test. Domicile involves much more than just using a brother’s address on your petition. Also, the U.S. citizen sponsor can not file the I-864 Affidavit of Support without a U.S. domicile.

Also, I would not agree with you entirely that the DCF process is “simple” and “quick”. It is usually faster than filing stateside but it is not any simpler.

Ray

[RonnieReagan]

I have no idea weather or not Pete has a verifiable domicile in the US or not but I stated clearly that it is an obvious requirement and I assume also that income taxes were filed. If not that would be a major complication as that's what the US embassy in Bogota bases support ability on. What also isn't known is what the embassy uses to verify your US address. Telephone directory? In any case I'll re-phraze my last comment. If your and her paperwork, her shots, baptismal certificate and so on are in order the process is simple and quick requiring two visits to Bogota about a month apart. At the end of the second visit the lady walks out of the embassy with a visa.

[Ray]

Hi Ronnie,

Yes, if he hasn’t been filing U.S. income tax returns in the U.S. regularly, then he would likely have big problems with the petition.

A slight correction to your info: The most recent THREE years income tax returns are required with the I-864 Affidavit of Support. Those along with proof of current income and/or liquid assets is what the embassy would mostly rely on to determine your ability to support a wife and family.

How do they verify your address in the States? Mostly, they rely on your word given under oath. They also look for proof of stateside employment and your address on income tax returns, etc. If you filed your taxes as a non-resident, that may screw you. If you file by DCF based on the fact that you are a permanent resident of Colombia (or any foreign country), then you should certainly expect to be questioned on your U.S. domicile.

More info on domicile requirements here:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1315.html#4b

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_1328.html#4

I will agree that processing an immigrant visa for a spouse in a total of one month is definitely fast.

Ray

[Pete E]

I know people who have gotten spousal visas who basically live in Colombia.It sounds like you have to play the game you will live in the US.
This brings up a possible problem for me.In my letter to the Embassy explaining Beatriz's trip and saying I would pay for it I stated I had no intention of living in the US again.Sounds like that could bite me if I go for my fall back possition,marrying her and going for the spousal visa.
We may very well marry,it probably will happen,but I am in no hurry right now.But I always figured that would get her a spousal visa for sure.
But I might be screwing up by having that letter in a file if I do go for a spousal visa.
All I want is for her to be able to travel.With a spousal visa she becomes a US resident and I believe that allows her to travel to other countries without a visa like I can as a US citizen.
However,one of my friends is from Canada.He married a Colombiana and they live in Canada most of the time.But she cannot travel through the US getting here,she has to take a Canada to Bogota flight.

Pete

[conocerme]

All I want is for her to be able to travel.With a spousal visa she becomes a US resident and I believe that allows her to travel to other countries without a visa like I can as a US citizen.
However,one of my friends is from Canada.He married a Colombiana and they live in Canada most of the time.But she cannot travel through the US getting here,she has to take a Canada to Bogota flight.

Pete

Pete - she would still be traveling under a Colombian passport and a visa would be required for all countries that require Colombians to obtain a visa, even if she has permanent U.S. residency.  This is my understanding.
That is why your friend's wife from Canada has to take the Canada to Bogota flight.  

If she sticks it out here for the time required (3-4 years) to become a U.S. Citizen, then she can enjoy the same benefits that you enjoy and travel under the blue U.S. passport.

Best of luck -

conocerme

[Pete E]

I belive someone posted his Colombiann wife was able to enter Mexico with a US visa in Her Colombian passport.I think some countries might consider it.
Same Canadian guy,his wife could NOT go to Mexico with her canadian Visa in a Colombian passport.They went to cuba instead for a vacation, the US is now running down americans who go their from flight records.
My Ex has  been in the US 6 years,now a permanent resident but hasn't bothered to get her US citizenship.She is now working on it because she needs it was a cerification usefull in her career.

Pete

[conocerme]

From time to time, I have also heard about a Colombian with U.S. residency being able to travel to Mexico.  I am not sure what the limitations are there.  I do know she would be allowed to travel to Canada.  My wife (who has U.S. residency)  has visited a friend in Montreal a few times.  But I believe that is because these are countries that border the U.S.   I think if you want to go elsewhere from these two countries, you will have to obtain a visa.   I know my wife could not travel to Spain without a visa, because we looked into that.  

My wife just got her appointment letter for the N-400 Naturalization (U.S. Citizen) interview in early April.  One requirement is that they be able to speak and understand English.  And of course, if you travel a lot out of the U.S. (especially over six months in a given year), this could be problematic for Naturalization.

conocerme

[Ray]

All I want is for her to be able to travel.With a spousal visa she becomes a US resident and I believe that allows her to travel to other countries without a visa like I can as a US citizen.

Pete,

Though U.S. residency allows some travel without a visa, she would not have the same privileges as a U.S. citizen in regards to the need for a visa.

An immigrant visa for your spouse is to facilitate family reunification. If you have no intention of living permanently in the U.S. and only want to make a short trip there occasionally, then the Spouse visa is not what she needs and would be not eligible for. If your wife had a visitor visa good for 5 or 10 years, then that would probably meet your needs.

When do you think you will marry? You know if you croak before that she will have no option to immigrate to the U.S.

Ray

[Pete E]

We might marry in the next year,but she has no plans to move to the US
without me and does not really want to go with me but she did say she would if thats what I wanted to do.Her mother is very ill right now,her main reason to want to be here but she really doesn't want to leave Colombia.Thats what I'm finding with alot more girls now.When I first came here 6 years ago it seemed alot more wanted to leave,now it seems they would prefer to stay if the guy can live here.

Pete

[Pete E]

Beatriz goes back March 24 for her appointment,she got it rescheduled today.

Pete

[utopiacowboy]

Pete - she would still be traveling under a Colombian passport and a visa would be required for all countries that require Colombians to obtain a visa, even if she has permanent U.S. residency.  This is my understanding.
conocerme

Not quite. My wife has a green card and has been able to travel to both Mexico and Canada without a visa. Normally both countries would require that a Colombian get a visa. If they have US permanent residency, I guess they figure they've got no incentive to overstay illegally.