Online Brides,Lisa Ling follows a Houston man on a marriage tour to colombia

[AndyLee]

The latin side of P-L certainly threw up (?!) some interesting morsels yesterday afternoon. Some made me feel depressed enough to cancel my P-L membership, but after having considered all factors and responses I thought i'd hang in for a while and add my thoughts to this contentious thread without naming anyone in person, criticising their lifestyle choices or starting flame wars.

If I were a sex tourist looking to travel abroad for a holiday of fun and frolicks, with no questions asked or "protection" requried, some of the posts made here yesterday would have surely made me drool. However, this I am most certainly not. And so, in reply I would like to chip in and remind all P-L readers - including any lurking AW/WW looking for quasi-feminist ammunition to fire at guys like myself, also any lurking Latinas shuddering at the attitudes shown towards them and their countries by certain guys, and also any Western guys considering searching for love abroad but troubled by the thought of travelling to Colombia on account of the women being described here on many occasions as ignorant, unreliable, dishonest and now promiscuous and irresponsible, that:

1) not all Colombian women are cheap - I'll repeat that word without apology or favour: CHEAP - enough to sleep with a man on the first date. Some of them actually possess moral rectitude, a knowledge of reproductive biology and contraception, including its role in fighting the spread of STDs, and lastly but most importantly - wait for it(!) - a sense of self-worth, and
2) not all gringos travelling to LA and Colombia would be impressed by women offering them unprotected sex and one night stands; some, including myself, would find the idea of a date squeezing my private parts under a dinner table as crude, revolting and cheap - yes, CHEAP - and would no sooner wish to share a toilet seat with such an individual than a bedroom, or indeed a life.

It remains to be discussed as to whether Western guys looking to meet a Latina with more conservative and responsible attitudes and morals regarding sexuality would be better persuaded to search for her in countries other than Colombia, on account of the apparent rarity of such women when men's thoughts and findings are discussed on forums like this one. On balance I believe perhaps they would, but I'll happily consider and discuss differing points of view.

Your post seems to be directed at me in particular and I must admit I have no clue why you are so upset with the subject or the opinions that have been expressed.
The thread is not in my estimation "contentious" in the least. I've only read through the whole thread one time but I don't recall anything being said that was overly offensive or threatening. Well, one guy did say that Colombianas can't string two thoughts together to make a paragraph, and I definitely don't agree with him on that, but I wasn't offended by it.
As for everything else in the thread, I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the video was well done, it was informative and entertaining, and didn't paint a terribly good or bad picture about anybody....except lamar of course, and even his performance wasn't all that bad, given that he's an ugly old guy with his arm around a pretty 20 year old. I thought it was cool the girl subsequently showed good manners and I thought superb politeness in her remarks on camera when she said she didn't think she would want or have a relationship with him.

[dennislevy]

Cee Tee Em

You and I have exchanged private emails before...so I want to be as polite as possible.

If I recall, you ve never been to Colombia and you ve been dithering about it for years. true? And you are British....true?

So please don t criticize a culture that you don t know or havent experienced personally.

Passion is soemthing that is supremely important in Colombian culture...and it is the antithesis of everything you may believe is important or what British culture may be.  Many women, not all but many some express themselves here...emotionally and physically, especially in specific regions of the country, the Caribbean coast, and the Valle de Cauca are examples.

Five years ago, i thought more or less like you did, but I ve lived in Colombia and experienced many facets of its culture for three years...and the results are that Im much more accepting and open minded about some things, and I am no longer sexually frustrated....as I was in the US.

As Ive said, I ve never gone to a brothel, Ive never paid a woman to have sex with me....I dont spend extravagantly and Ive been fortunate to have had responsible professional women from ages 30 to 52....as lovers

Women here understand that if they want a chance to have and keep a good man....sex is a crucial part of the equation...its that simple. They are feminine, they can be very passionate and they enjoy making love with an attentive man.

So, if you have probems with all of this, PLEASE stay in Britain.

jejejeje!!!!

Dennis

  

[dennislevy]

Oh, yes I forgot women are quite physical and feminne in Pereira and Armenia and Manizales  and I am sure that AndyLee finds that to be reprehensible.....jejejejeje

CeeTeeEm, Andy and I come from an entirely different point of view because we live Colombia a country with probably the most and the densest population of beautiful women in the world!!!!!!

so rather then dither for umpteen more years, why dont you come to Colombia....the three of us will get together in Pereira or Baranquilla or Medellin or wherever. and you will see for yourself........

jejejejeje!!!!!!!!!!
 

[fathertime]

The latin side of P-L certainly threw up (?!) some interesting morsels yesterday afternoon. Some made me feel depressed enough to cancel my P-L membership, but after having considered all factors and responses I thought i'd hang in for a while and add my thoughts to this contentious thread without naming anyone in person, criticising their lifestyle choices or starting flame wars.

If I were a sex tourist looking to travel abroad for a holiday of fun and frolicks, with no questions asked or "protection" requried, some of the posts made here yesterday would have surely made me drool. However, this I am most certainly not. And so, in reply I would like to chip in and remind all P-L readers - including any lurking AW/WW looking for quasi-feminist ammunition to fire at guys like myself, also any lurking Latinas shuddering at the attitudes shown towards them and their countries by certain guys, and also any Western guys considering searching for love abroad but troubled by the thought of travelling to Colombia on account of the women being described here on many occasions as ignorant, unreliable, dishonest and now promiscuous and irresponsible, that:

1) not all Colombian women are cheap - I'll repeat that word without apology or favour: CHEAP - enough to sleep with a man on the first date. Some of them actually possess moral rectitude, a knowledge of reproductive biology and contraception, including its role in fighting the spread of STDs, and lastly but most importantly - wait for it(!) - a sense of self-worth, and
2) not all gringos travelling to LA and Colombia would be impressed by women offering them unprotected sex and one night stands; some, including myself, would find the idea of a date squeezing my private parts under a dinner table as crude, revolting and cheap - yes, CHEAP - and would no sooner wish to share a toilet seat with such an individual than a bedroom, or indeed a life.

It remains to be discussed as to whether Western guys looking to meet a Latina with more conservative and responsible attitudes and morals regarding sexuality would be better persuaded to search for her in countries other than Colombia, on account of the apparent rarity of such women when men's thoughts and findings are discussed on forums like this one. On balance I believe perhaps they would, but I'll happily consider and discuss differing points of view.

oh come on cte, leave dennislevy alone, he is just having a good time and if a woman wants to fondle his low hanging fruit under the supper table, why would he grumble about it?  I kinda liked that he shared the story!
now seriously, why be so darn uptight about everything...Levy and Lee are doing nothing wrong.  If what Levy says is true and you haven't been to Colombia yet, then really you don't know how things sometimes work and are boxed in by your European ideals of how a relationship should be.  Maybe these latinas want to have some fun and are not constrained to your type of thinking and why should they be! Your 'moral rectitude' and some random latina's idea of 'moral rectitude' are totally different.  For example these ladies might think you are a dithering wuss, for only thinking about traveling to  Colombia for several years, instead of taking action, but you would have every right to feel their judgment of you is not entirely fair!  Why don't you just think of it as, 'a difference in lifestyles' rather than labeling these loving latinas as 'crude, revolting, and cheap', can't you see that you are being cruel and judgmental?  When those latinas start tying you up and tantalizing you with that silly uptight necktie you are wearing, you might see the light.  

Fathertime!

[AndyLee]

On second thought, I have to agree a little bit with what Jamie said earlier about Colombianas not being able to string two thoughts together.......that's actually true in many cases.
I find one of the frustrations of being on sites like Cupid is that when I receive a letter from a woman 8 times out of 10 it's only one or two sentences. I'm actually thrilled when I get a letter that has two or three full paragraphs that are thoughtfully put together.
Interesting, a large number of them seem to talk like they are on IM, in one sentence bursts. Oddly enough, that first sentence often contains their cell phone number or their email address or both.
Dennis, what were your feelings about working directly for an agency? Did you feel like the fox that was hired to guard the hen house?
BTW, I grew up on a farm in Missouri, so standing in a campesino dooryard only 2 feet from a rooster isn't such a big deal for me......however, sitting in a campesino kitchen eating soup that has a chicken's foot floating in it while the rooster watches me through the open doorway is a memory I'm not likely to forget

[Researcher]

     I thought that the US was the only country that was uptight about sex. Several Brits I have known were sort of cavalier  about the subject of shagging. Anyway, I find it kind of refreshing that Colombians have a different attitude toward sex and nudity as us uptight folks from the US.


       Researcher

[dennislevy]

FT
low hanging fruit?  jejejejejejeje!!!

Have you been hiding in my shower?

Andy
The owner of the agency, Latin American Introductions insisted that as part of the job, I could not date the agecny s female clients...and I immediately agreed.... its ethical and it only makes good business sense ....

But I gave him a list of three women who had been agency clients in the past that I had dated when I was a LAI agency client and said I wanted to keep contact with them....and he agreed to that short list of three. 

One of the women broke up with me when she learned that I was going to work for the agency...and I didn t blame her for that. We got back together briefly after I left the agency as a worker.

The other two were amigas sin derechos and they still are....

And while I worked for LAI in 2008.....I dated women from Latin LifeMates, the agency next door to LAI, where I was (and still am a lifetime member)

[flipit]

    Hey flipit these broads don't even know what they are talking about and they know it.They are just repeating the same old BS that the feminazis say. I doubt you will get a response.

       Researcher

Researcher I totally concur with you. It is hard to help a person see the light when they insist on being in the dark.

[ignorante]

I'm much more accepting and open minded about some things, and I am no longer sexually frustrated....as I was in the US.

  Dennis, you are implying that anybody who thinks that a woman who sleeps around with men she just met is not good wife material must be "sexually frustrated."

If what I wanted was just sex, I can get plenty of that right here in the states, and plenty of it on the first date.  American women, generally, are sluts.  I am sorry that you could not get any here in the U.S., but I do not think that changes my point.  A woman who sleeps with a man she just met is not wife material.

By the way, I found British woman to be quite loose, too, so I have no idea where you are getting your cultural references.

That fact that you are cycling through hundreds of Colombianas without marrying hardly bolsters your position.  I think it favors mine.

I do want a wife to be passionate and into sex - but with me, not with men she just met.  A woman who does not resist sex on the first date is not a future wife.  Any man who marries a woman like that ought not to be surprised if she is sleeping with every other man around during the marriage.

[CeeTeeEnn]

Hmmm... I seem to have stirred things up a bit.

In reply, I would like to state that I am not picking on anyone here, nor criticising their lifestyles and choices, or making unfound assumptions about their lifestyles and choices; I fully respect the 6th statement of the P-L Core Values page. However, when posts portray Colombianas in what i consider to be a one-sided light, and do so to the degree which i feel may encourage a type of tourism which, ultimately, serves to undermine the reputations of all gringos in Colombia, i feel it's right to remind readers there is an alternative vision of Colombianas, a vision where sex is not necessarily a "crucial" part of the equation when it comes to attracting and keeping a man. I have been fortunate in meeting this type of Colombian woman on a few rare occasions over here; however I'm also sure that the P-L members married to the more conservative Colombianas can make this point much better than I can. I also feel it's right to remind any female readers that there's another side to the Latina fancier too.

I'm not sure exactly what my "values" have been assumed to be, but for the record i'll say this. I have no problem attracting interest here in London of women of practically all ages - including Colombianas - and I am not "frustrated" in any way whatsoever. Nevertheless, on several occasions I have been "tantalised" by scantily clad Colombianas on salsa dancefloors and made various offers afterwards - none of which i accepted. I have even been subjected to the "handling" treatment already mentioned and found it a gut-wrenching turn-off (perhaps this is something peculiar to Colombia; i don't know or care.) So ok, i may be no Latin lover and yes, I may be considered a wuss, stuck up, or even gay by some latinas (perhaps jaded by their failure to entice me.) But I have my standards, just as others have theirs. And now that they have had their say here on P-L, i have had mine. Not all gringos are the same.

As a side point, the British have in the past enjoyed a reputation as being stuffy, unromantic and cold when it comes to love. However, recent times have put paid to this and the resulting "unravelling of traditional values", if I can put it this way, has landed us some of the highest rates of divorce, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infections and childbirth out of wedlock in the Western world. The vision of Brits in Colombia, as portrayed by Researcher, is perfectly in tune with what I see here. However, like most other P-L members I'm looking overseas to get a better deal than i can get at home when it comes to meeting a life partner, and in the case of British women's attitudes to sexuality, it's difficult for me to find a worse deal anywhere else except maybe certain parts of Thailand, Philippines, Brazil... and Colombia. I certainly have no deisre to swap out one type of morally-incompatible woman with another from abroad, no matter how passionate, expressive or "sexy" she may be.

Finally, white it may be true I have never been to Colombia, I'd like to mention that I have my own good reasons for not having travelled there. London's large ex-pat community has exposed me to much of their culture and, sadly, also to the murkier side of the Colombiana, over the 15 or so years I have been acquainted with it. My recent attempts to meet a more compatible, educated and conservative class of Colombiana online was extensive and long-lasting but ultimately unsuccessful (largely to do, i might add, with the matters of communication and intellect as already discussed here.) I have therefore decided to take my search elsewhere. I'm glad to say I'm now corresponding with women from a different part of the world in a manner i found next to impossible with Colombianas, and i'm definitely not looking back.

[dennislevy]

ignorante
dont put words in my mouth. i didnt imply that other American men were sexually frustrated, I said I was....My ñast realtionship in the US was in 2007 with a brazilian and since then I ve never thought about American women

Agian, you re attributing motives to me and you don t know me. I m not sure what you mean by cycling through hundreds of Colomian women..I ve met quite a few, chatted on line with even more...but if you think my goal is to have first date sex with every woman I cntact or contacts   me ....you re just plain silly!

Im going ot try tomake this point...many Colombian women who are physically and emotionally capable of making love...when they  want to really know a man....sex is part of getting to know him.....she wants to know if they have sexual chemisty, if they are compatible...if he is goingto to satisfy her. And sometimes, if the chemistry s there...it happens fast...on the first face to face encounter.  

I ve never pushed a woman for sex on a first date...but if we turn each one enough ..and she has those desires and shows me what she wants. then I wont say no. Generlaly it happens when I travel somewhere after chatitng with a woman....and maybe it isnt strictly a first date.  

And as far as Im concerned, if there is chemistry and a woman wants to be with ME, Im not concerned aobut what she has done with othe rmen or what she may do with other men in the future. Im focused on the present with her.

As far as whether a woman is  better marriage material if  you wait until. date Number....2 or 6 or 143 I think its a load of bull.

what americcan do is measure and quantify incessantly.....and you can t measure morality.

[dennislevy]

I odnt believe that I ve given a one sided portrayal of Colombian women. Every womanhas her own sexuality, her own beliefs, her own perception of what she may  or may not do.

Ive dated very briefly two women who told me that they would not have sex with a man until the wedding night. Both women had been previoulsy married....I simply said I admire your values, wished them well, kissed them on the cheek and said goodbye.

whether they were serious..or just testing my sincerity or level of interest....tats their right...and my right to say goodbye.

And i remember that during my first year here I went out with a Colombian woman in Bogota 12 times and nothing other then some kisisng ever happened. I was trying ot show that I was the pefect caballero.

We are very good platonic friends to ths day.....but I have too much expereince and I understand too much aobut the culture to ever do that again! 


I m not trying to convince any man what she should feel or not feel or think or not think.

But I wil say...that in the middle of kissing duirng an early date if a Colombian woman has groped my crotch, Ive never considered it to be a gut wreching experenice, just a sign of ...more good things to come!

Bu that s me!

[Researcher]

 


       C'mon CTN, you are destroying the stereotypical image of the "randy" British...Yeah Baby!!!!


               


     Researcher

[utopiacowboy]

Here is an example of how a woman who is not a slut behaves. I came down to Colombia the week before our wedding which was to be held on a Saturday night. On Wednesday my soon-to-be mother-in-law and brother-in-law show up at my wife's apartment. That night I sleep in the servant's room by myself. Thursday we quickly made arrangements to be married civilly at one of the notarias in Medellin. If not I would have had the servant's room until Saturday night. As it was my wife was barely content for us to sleep together since her family feel that you really are not married until you do so in the Catholic Church. Nevertheless it was enough to allow her to share a room with me with a clear conscience.

[dennislevy]

Here is an example of how a Colombian woman who is not a slut can behave

when I came to Colombia for my second trip in may 2008  I had been communicatng with a 40 year old never married, no kids woman from Ibague. We were both members of an agency in Bogota and she came to Bogota for her company s sales convention and to meet me. She stayed at her cousin s apartment in Bogota.  We went out three times, on the fourth date she stayed over with me and we were lovers.

I told her that I would be in Ibague in no more then a week....and when I went to Ibague 7 days later, I stayed with her in her bedroom in her mother spartment and the mom was on the other side of the wall from us. I was with her daughter, with her mom s  full knowledge and full consent.

Both of these ladies are going to mass Catholics rain or shine, once a week, sometimes twice

After 4 days in Ibague we went traveling in Colombia and spenr every minute of every day together for 21 days.

When I left to return to the US, she came with me to the airport in Bogota and was crying.

But, but she broke up with me 2 months later when I was in the US preparing to pack and move to Colombia....abnd dont think it didnt sting.   Now after almost three years in Colombia I understand to some extent why she did it.

And 4 months ago, she married a Colombian man in Ibague. she had her church wedding and a big reception and she wore a white bridal dress.

And she was never a slut.

     

[AndyLee]

Hmmm... I seem to have stirred things up a bit.

Not really, actually all you did was muddy the water a little bit by wading around in the shallow end of the pond. I read all three of your posts all the way through and quite frankly I don't understand your beef. Your reasoning baffles me but that's okay, I spend a good part of each day being bewildered by the things I see in the world and what I read on the Internet.
I truly am happy for you that you have redirected your efforts to another country. Because of your antipathy towards Colombian women I too am convinced you made the right decision. Colombia is not for you.
good luck with your search.

[dennislevy]

CeeTeeEm

Have to go wth my man Andy on this one!

But you know us obstinate Colonials.....jejejeje

Good luck in your endeavors...and if you have another country that you re targeting, let me give you a parting word of advice.

Don t dither!!!!! Go there!!!!!!! Internaitonal romance really works well when you re actually face to face....gasp, dare I say it.....skin to skin......

Cuidase
Dennis

[flash]

They have a saying that used in many different ways. "One mans junk is another mans treasure." I'm never going to call any woman a slut or anything worse. I have no right to judge. Although I may disagree with another posters opinions, last time I checked he wasn't pissin in my toilet, so as a man, he can do as he chooses. How much sense that makes, thats why I'm here, I plan on making my first trip to Columbia in the next few months, and I want to get the best advise possible. And I think that place is PL.

Dennis seems to be enjoying himself in Columbia, and he deserves it. It's obvious he has no intention of hurting any of the women he's with. Based on all of his posts he seems to be respectful of their wishes, even if they disagree with his libido. How many of us would want a guy dating our daughter who understands no means no? Most.

My point; Columbia seems to be the kind of place where you can find what your looking for. Just do your research (no pun intended) and know what your getting. If you want an ex-nun, you can find it. If you want some chick to rip your nuts off, carry a bandage on the plane. We are all just lookin for the same think, that we haven't found in our native countries.

Hey Whitey, no disrespect, but your wife's a good lookin woman, if her sister was at that soiree, I'm headin there.

[Woody]

How much sense that makes, thats why I'm here, I plan on making my first trip to Columbia in the next few months, and I want to get the best advise possible. And I think that place is PL.

FYI, it is spelled Colombia. No 'u' in the word.

[Colgando]

Hey Whitey, no disrespect, but your wife's a good lookin woman, if her sister was at that soiree, I'm headin there.

I have not seen one bad looking Avatar here yet on the Asian and Latin sides rather, all the Avatars are stunning and no doubt they are all beautiful on the inside. 

[Traveler]

CTN,

I think you are somewhat misguided and inexperienced.  Women derive more pleasure from sex than men do, can have it a lot more often as well.  Social conventions generally tend to limit their sexual self-expression, and those conventions (and their application) differ in different cultures.  But, if a woman artificially limits her sexuality, it is likely to explode at some time later.

Also, women are very interested in quality of sex.  Why would a woman invest time in dating a guy, "getting to know" a guy, etc, if it turns out he is not that good in bed?  Or if he is not sexually compatible with her?  Only if you come across as a prudish guy that expects that.  In fact, why would you want to invest time (and possibly money) into "getting to know" a woman before you know that you have sexual chemistry?  What is unnatural about healthy sexual self-expression?  

I am not suggesting dropping any girl that doesn't sleep with you on the first date, but she definitely has to indicate sexual interest before you should consider seeing her again.  And you should show unambiguous sexual interest in her as well; if not, many latinas will think you are either strange or just want to be friends - with no benefits.

To IG, if a woman putting off having sex until the third date was the main factor in determining if a woman is "wife material" or not, life would have been a lot easier.  Your mutual compatibility, chemistry, her maturity in being able to handle responsibilites of family life, and many other factors are a lot more important.  Also, the fact that a woman makes you wait is no guarantee that she will stay faithful.  

[whitey]

Hey Whitey, no disrespect, but your wife's a good lookin woman, if her sister was at that soiree, I'm headin there.

Haha ... none taken ... thanks.

Nazly's sister has a boyfriend now, so she's taken ... 

[dennislevy]

if I had half the libido some of you guys seem to think I have.....I would have been dead two years ago....!

But I stll have some fire in the furnace and I am not complaining! 

Brother traveler, preach it brother, preach it.....YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!

[CeeTeeEnn]

Yes indeed, i too have now concluded that Colombia is not the idea place for me to check out. But this is absolutely no skin off my nose; after all, Colombia is only one of 20 countries in Latin America. And any gringos who read P-L and who may be feeling somewhat queasy at the thought of travelling to Colombia and dating Colombianas can always take comfort from the fact that there are 19 other Latin countries where there are also plenty of attractive and available Latinas willing to meet, date and marry Westerners. The stories of KB, SFNM, JimmyStLouis, BCC and many others testify to this.

Also, thank you very much for your qualified and revealing analyis of my personality and shortcomings, Researcher. It's obvious that my "game" is somewhat different (and likely inferior) to yours and perhaps also to that of many other P-L members. Nonetheless, i shall take a crumb of comfort from the fact that at least the Ecuadorianas and Mexicanas I dated took no issue with my "strange" or "unnatural" attitudes to sexual chemistry. I shall also try to cheer myself with the knowledge that there are also many other parts of the world where numerous women are sincerely interested in dating Westerners, and where the concepts of "sexual self-expression" are perhaps more conservative than those you may have in mind, but on the other hand the rates of unplanned pregnancies, STDs, abortions, and other established metrics of social disintegration are a mere fraction of what they are in some of the countries already mentioned in this thread.

There is nothing more i wish to dicuss (or indeed learn...) concerning this topic and i consider it closed. Vive le différence.

[dennislevy]

There may be 19 other countries in the latin world.....but IMHO some of them are not worth visiting to meet or date women....El Salvador and Guatemala easily come to mind.....

I have been through a lot of Colombia (including Choco, and I ve seen lots of gringos with girls from Choco ) and the only palce in Colombia that  I didnt  think there were many good looking women was in Maicao en La Guajira.

OK; CTM if you want out......thats fine...but you are jussssssssssst a bit pompous.

jejeje..............